magicka necromancer

Insco851

Ucarious wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The thing I like about Mag necro is that you can get away with stacking magic more so than other classes. Alfiq and BtB with a damage monster set is very viable. Since you have a skill that provides major protection and another skill that provides 10% damage mitigation, you can also stack minor protection on top of those. Plus you have access to a purge that restores resources and armor increasing skills. You can get very tanky in light armor running damage sets.

Current meta- I’ve gotten more mileage out of the intensive mender than I did the 10% mitigation version. Dots is my guess why.

One would think the 10% mitigation healing pet would be better but strangely on a magcro the intensive mender is just balls to the wall good especially when you're using hexproof more than usual atm (we all know why)

And on top of that stupid heal we have our burst heal that adds resistances and light armor shield.

AND a huge group AOE burst Heal/Purge/Hot

Yea. The heals are legit. I ain’t tryna run a healer but if I were...

jaws343

Insco851 wrote: »

Ucarious wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The thing I like about Mag necro is that you can get away with stacking magic more so than other classes. Alfiq and BtB with a damage monster set is very viable. Since you have a skill that provides major protection and another skill that provides 10% damage mitigation, you can also stack minor protection on top of those. Plus you have access to a purge that restores resources and armor increasing skills. You can get very tanky in light armor running damage sets.

Why would you ever run alfiq when necropotence exists O.o

Small reason I’ve noticed... unlike my magden, pets here cost resources, don’t last very long, so you lose a decent amount of max mag sustain if the pets ever drop as well as at the start of a fight. With Alfiq, 100% uptime. 1000~ less mag.

Yeah, this is why. I like having the static resources rather than watching them ping pong as my "pets" die off. And at only a 600 mag difference, with zero downtime, I'll run Alfiq on non sorcs or non static pet builds over necro.

Canned_Apples

After playing as a necromancer for a while, I can see what you all mean by it being broken- especially in pvp/bgs.

Blastbones is terrible.

Revokus

Insco851 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The thing I like about Mag necro is that you can get away with stacking magic more so than other classes. Alfiq and BtB with a damage monster set is very viable. Since you have a skill that provides major protection and another skill that provides 10% damage mitigation, you can also stack minor protection on top of those. Plus you have access to a purge that restores resources and armor increasing skills. You can get very tanky in light armor running damage sets.

Current meta- I’ve gotten more mileage out of the intensive mender than I did the 10% mitigation version. Dots is my guess why.

Intensive mender is so buggy sometimes it does not heal you or it can heal someone else so I prefer the 10 % mitigation at least you get something out of it 100 % of the time lol

Revokus

Canned_Apples wrote: »

After playing as a necromancer for a while, I can see what you all mean by it being broken- especially in pvp/bgs.

Blastbones is terrible.

Agreed anyone saying Necro is fine does not seem to notice that none of the damage skills on necromancer are reliable in pvp except ricochet skull and even that skill has speed and weaving problems.

Canned_Apples

The 10% mitigation morph should also be a self heal morph..
It sucks when you're at 50% health and then someone at 40% comes running by and it heals them instead of you.

Cernunnos55

So I'm attempting to put together a light armour MagCro.

Front bar Inferno with Expunge & Modify, Stalking Blastbones, Spirit Guardian, Elemental Weapon, Elemental Drain. Glacial Colossus.

Back bar resto with Harness Magicka, Summoner's Armour, Resistant Flesh, Deaden Pain, Rapid Regen. Bone Goliath.

Something will be removed to accommodate Degeneration, and I am at present undecided on armour sets.

Rip it apart, improve it, tell me I'll die in 0.1 seconds or say what works well.

Royalthought

Cernunnos55 wrote: »

So I'm attempting to put together a light armour MagCro.

Front bar Inferno with Expunge & Modify, Stalking Blastbones, Spirit Guardian, Elemental Weapon, Elemental Drain. Glacial Colossus.

Back bar resto with Harness Magicka, Summoner's Armour, Resistant Flesh, Deaden Pain, Rapid Regen. Bone Goliath.

Something will be removed to accommodate Degeneration, and I am at present undecided on armour sets.

Rip it apart, improve it, tell me I'll die in 0.1 seconds or say what works well.

Other than Colossus, no CC.

Other than that it's difficult to gauge without knowing which sets, race, food, etc. They each can make up for what the other lacks.

Cernunnos55

Royalthought wrote: »

Cernunnos55 wrote: »

So I'm attempting to put together a light armour MagCro.

Front bar Inferno with Expunge & Modify, Stalking Blastbones, Spirit Guardian, Elemental Weapon, Elemental Drain. Glacial Colossus.

Back bar resto with Harness Magicka, Summoner's Armour, Resistant Flesh, Deaden Pain, Rapid Regen. Bone Goliath.

Something will be removed to accommodate Degeneration, and I am at present undecided on armour sets.

Rip it apart, improve it, tell me I'll die in 0.1 seconds or say what works well.

Other than Colossus, no CC.

Other than that it's difficult to gauge without knowing which sets, race, food, etc. They each can make up for what the other lacks.

Thanks for the input. CC is lacking, that's not great. Perhaps I can take something out and stick Invigorating Drain in its place.

It'll be Breton, Double Blood Mara, and it's probably going to be some combination of Bright Throats, Alfiq, Spell Strat, Mother's Sorrow. Will probably go for defensive monster set, such as 1 pc PS and 1 pc LWD.

Insco851

Cernunnos55 wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Cernunnos55 wrote: »

So I'm attempting to put together a light armour MagCro.

Front bar Inferno with Expunge & Modify, Stalking Blastbones, Spirit Guardian, Elemental Weapon, Elemental Drain. Glacial Colossus.

Back bar resto with Harness Magicka, Summoner's Armour, Resistant Flesh, Deaden Pain, Rapid Regen. Bone Goliath.

Something will be removed to accommodate Degeneration, and I am at present undecided on armour sets.

Rip it apart, improve it, tell me I'll die in 0.1 seconds or say what works well.

Other than Colossus, no CC.

Other than that it's difficult to gauge without knowing which sets, race, food, etc. They each can make up for what the other lacks.

Thanks for the input. CC is lacking, that's not great. Perhaps I can take something out and stick Invigorating Drain in its place.

It'll be Breton, Double Blood Mara, and it's probably going to be some combination of Bright Throats, Alfiq, Spell Strat, Mother's Sorrow. Will probably go for defensive monster set, such as 1 pc PS and 1 pc LWD.

Switch the summoners armor to beckoning. It’s not a reliable CC but it still at least acts as a defensive CC.

(Drop) Deaden pain is also great on paper but not really all that usable in live action. (At least when you need it)

Move the mender to the back bar, add clench front bar. Cast BB, pull an ele into clench... should all land as one big delayed burst.

Maybe put undo backbar for the minor protection.

katorga

Insco851 wrote: »

Cernunnos55 wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Cernunnos55 wrote: »

So I'm attempting to put together a light armour MagCro.

Front bar Inferno with Expunge & Modify, Stalking Blastbones, Spirit Guardian, Elemental Weapon, Elemental Drain. Glacial Colossus.

Back bar resto with Harness Magicka, Summoner's Armour, Resistant Flesh, Deaden Pain, Rapid Regen. Bone Goliath.

Something will be removed to accommodate Degeneration, and I am at present undecided on armour sets.

Rip it apart, improve it, tell me I'll die in 0.1 seconds or say what works well.

Other than Colossus, no CC.

Other than that it's difficult to gauge without knowing which sets, race, food, etc. They each can make up for what the other lacks.

Thanks for the input. CC is lacking, that's not great. Perhaps I can take something out and stick Invigorating Drain in its place.

It'll be Breton, Double Blood Mara, and it's probably going to be some combination of Bright Throats, Alfiq, Spell Strat, Mother's Sorrow. Will probably go for defensive monster set, such as 1 pc PS and 1 pc LWD.

Switch the summoners armor to beckoning. It’s not a reliable CC but it still at least acts as a defensive CC.

Deaden pain is also great on paper but not really all that usable in live action. (At least when you need it)

Move the mender to the back bar, add clench front bar. Cast BB, pull an ele into clench... should all land as one big delayed burst.

I switched the guardian pet to Intensive Mender when they cut the duration in half to combine with Deaden Pain for major protection, it assures at least one corpse for 2 seconds of protection every 4 seconds if you recast early. I stack heavily into stam and a defensive race (Imperial, nord or dunmer), and roll/block/sprint. I play mostly stam so this seems more natural to me. Flip this to a stam build and its 10 times better - dunmer with shacklebreaker gets some nice mender heals on a stam build.

wheem_ESO

Cernunnos55 wrote: »

So I'm attempting to put together a light armour MagCro.

Front bar Inferno with Expunge & Modify, Stalking Blastbones, Spirit Guardian, Elemental Weapon, Elemental Drain. Glacial Colossus.

Back bar resto with Harness Magicka, Summoner's Armour, Resistant Flesh, Deaden Pain, Rapid Regen. Bone Goliath.

Something will be removed to accommodate Degeneration, and I am at present undecided on armour sets.

Rip it apart, improve it, tell me I'll die in 0.1 seconds or say what works well.

While Expunge and Modify isn't necessarily a "bad" ability, I think it's fairly overrated for PvP. Sure, cleansing 2 debuffs and gaining back some resources is nice, but I'm usually already under fire when I need that cleanse the most, and that's a time where I can't afford to lose both ~2k HP and a GCD...at least not if my opponent(s) are decent. I'd recommend replacing it with Renewing Undeath, which is a fairly solid AOE heal that will also cleanse 3 debuffs (which works on teammates as well) + provide a ground based HOT if there's a corpse within its area.

The Spirit Guardian is solid, but I personally prefer using the Intensive Mender morph instead. It casts a very substantial heal (when it doesn't bug out), and provides more frequent corpses, which is useful for Renewing Undeath. If you're exclusively playing in premade groups that have a dedicated healer, Spirit Guardian might be a bit better since it can be cast half as often, the heal isn't as needed, and it'll help reduce burst damage against you.

I don't find shields to be worth it right now; their cost to size ratio is pretty atrocious, and Harness will no longer provide "infinite" magicka if being attacked by another magicka class. Your "active" survivability, to the extent that you have any, will come from heals, dodge rolls, and getting range/LOS. If I die a lot in a BG, it's for one of two reasons; 1) repeated insta-death from ludicrous levels of burst damage from mostly Stamina builds, or 2) my team is terrible and at least one of the opposing ones isn't. Having a shield that absorbs ~5k and costs nearly 4k magicka (and that's with reduction from Breton and 5 light armor) wouldn't help noticeably in those situations, especially since I'd have to drop another ability to make room for it.

Deaden Pain looks good on paper, but in practice isn't really very reliable. There are simply too many situations where you may *need* it immediately, but don't have corpses available. If I were going to start using this ability again, I'd probably switch to the other morph and use it as much as possible after combat in order to keep my ultimate up.

I've played around with a few different build variations lately, but what I'm preferring so far is:
Necropotence, Bright-Throat's Boast, Bloodspawn (both heavy), with 3x Protective Jewelry (haven't bothered transmuting those from what they were before, but maybe I should?), and the tri-stat drink. I think both Bloodspawn pieces are still on their default HP enchants, while chest/legs are tri-stat, other body pieces are magicka, and jewelry are all spell damage.

Flame Staff bar: Degeneration, Invigorating Drain, Stalking Blastbones, Intensive Mender, Consuming Trap. Ultimate - varies.

Resto Staff bar: Summoner's Armor, Rapid Regen, Renewing Undeath, Race Against Time, Skeletal Mage. Ultimate - Life Giver.

I've tried several different offensive ultimates, but haven't fully settled on one. Vamp Drain can help Meteor land unblocked, and if my Blastbones decides that he wants to explode at a similar point in time, it's good burst. The Colossus is also pretty strong, of course, and can combo well with Vamp Drain on one target, or the class' totem on multiple targets (but timing is unreliable if there's a lot of movement going on at the time). Bats also aren't half bad, and if you've leveled up 2h and use a spammable, you can even run the ridiculously overpowered Onslaught (I once got hit for 7k by Ricochet Skull in no-CP, thanks to the 12 seconds of penetration from Onslaught).

Animate Blastbones can even do OK for (delayed) burst sometimes, as long as you have the opportunity to get everything set up properly. The really huge cost and general unreliability of Blastbones are big problems for this ultimate, though, and means that it's really just relegated to being a fun little toy to play around with on occasion. It also has a super obvious telegraph, though I guess lots of people aren't familiar with it yet, since no one actually uses this ultimate.

Revokus

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Cernunnos55 wrote: »

So I'm attempting to put together a light armour MagCro.

Front bar Inferno with Expunge & Modify, Stalking Blastbones, Spirit Guardian, Elemental Weapon, Elemental Drain. Glacial Colossus.

Back bar resto with Harness Magicka, Summoner's Armour, Resistant Flesh, Deaden Pain, Rapid Regen. Bone Goliath.

Something will be removed to accommodate Degeneration, and I am at present undecided on armour sets.

Rip it apart, improve it, tell me I'll die in 0.1 seconds or say what works well.

While Expunge and Modify isn't necessarily a "bad" ability, I think it's fairly overrated for PvP. Sure, cleansing 2 debuffs and gaining back some resources is nice, but I'm usually already under fire when I need that cleanse the most, and that's a time where I can't afford to lose both ~2k HP and a GCD...at least not if my opponent(s) are decent. I'd recommend replacing it with Renewing Undeath, which is a fairly solid AOE heal that will also cleanse 3 debuffs (which works on teammates as well) + provide a ground based HOT if there's a corpse within its area.

The Spirit Guardian is solid, but I personally prefer using the Intensive Mender morph instead. It casts a very substantial heal (when it doesn't bug out), and provides more frequent corpses, which is useful for Renewing Undeath. If you're exclusively playing in premade groups that have a dedicated healer, Spirit Guardian might be a bit better since it can be cast half as often, the heal isn't as needed, and it'll help reduce burst damage against you.

I don't find shields to be worth it right now; their cost to size ratio is pretty atrocious, and Harness will no longer provide "infinite" magicka if being attacked by another magicka class. Your "active" survivability, to the extent that you have any, will come from heals, dodge rolls, and getting range/LOS. If I die a lot in a BG, it's for one of two reasons; 1) repeated insta-death from ludicrous levels of burst damage from mostly Stamina builds, or 2) my team is terrible and at least one of the opposing ones isn't. Having a shield that absorbs ~5k and costs nearly 4k magicka (and that's with reduction from Breton and 5 light armor) wouldn't help noticeably in those situations, especially since I'd have to drop another ability to make room for it.

Deaden Pain looks good on paper, but in practice isn't really very reliable. There are simply too many situations where you may *need* it immediately, but don't have corpses available. If I were going to start using this ability again, I'd probably switch to the other morph and use it as much as possible after combat in order to keep my ultimate up.

I've played around with a few different build variations lately, but what I'm preferring so far is:
Necropotence, Bright-Throat's Boast, Bloodspawn (both heavy), with 3x Protective Jewelry (haven't bothered transmuting those from what they were before, but maybe I should?), and the tri-stat drink. I think both Bloodspawn pieces are still on their default HP enchants, while chest/legs are tri-stat, other body pieces are magicka, and jewelry are all spell damage.

Flame Staff bar: Degeneration, Invigorating Drain, Stalking Blastbones, Intensive Mender, Consuming Trap. Ultimate - varies.

Resto Staff bar: Summoner's Armor, Rapid Regen, Renewing Undeath, Race Against Time, Skeletal Mage. Ultimate - Life Giver.

I've tried several different offensive ultimates, but haven't fully settled on one. Vamp Drain can help Meteor land unblocked, and if my Blastbones decides that he wants to explode at a similar point in time, it's good burst. The Colossus is also pretty strong, of course, and can combo well with Vamp Drain on one target, or the class' totem on multiple targets (but timing is unreliable if there's a lot of movement going on at the time). Bats also aren't half bad, and if you've leveled up 2h and use a spammable, you can even run the ridiculously overpowered Onslaught (I once got hit for 7k by Ricochet Skull in no-CP, thanks to the 12 seconds of penetration from Onslaught).

Animate Blastbones can even do OK for (delayed) burst sometimes, as long as you have the opportunity to get everything set up properly. The really huge cost and general unreliability of Blastbones are big problems for this ultimate, though, and means that it's really just relegated to being a fun little toy to play around with on occasion. It also has a super obvious telegraph, though I guess lots of people aren't familiar with it yet, since no one actually uses this ultimate.

I agree with everything you are saying with all your posts lol. MagNecro offense is terrible compared to other classes.
This is what I'm running this patch.

My sets are Necropotence, Chudan and Steadfast Hero. Even tough I'm missing a Chudan medium piece for undaunted I still get nice stats. This is fully buffed in Cyro see screenshots below. Running 1 infused spell damage neck, 2 arcane magicka recovery rings and 1 prismatic Glyph atm until I get medium Chudan.
I'm still undecided if I want to keep one hand shield back bar or resto staff with light's champion for solo play. I like being able to regen stam with one hand shield. And heavy attacks from resto staff restores so much magicka as well.

Major protection from Steadfast Hero when you purge every 5 sec paired with Deaden Pain + Totem + Spirit Guardian + 3 % from Hexproof I get around 53 % damage reduction on my back bar.

Breton Vampire tri-stats pots and Thief Mundus.


Front Bar with Willpower nirnhoned Flame Staff weapon damage enchant.


Back Bar Steadfast Hero one hand Defending and Impen shield



Spirit Guardian-Deaden Pain-Race against Time-Hexproof-Resistant Flesh-Ravenous Goliath.



Blastbones-Degeneration-Ricochet Skull-Agony Totem-Inner Light-Glacial Colossus.

InvictusApollo

Revokus wrote: »

Major protection from Steadfast Hero when you purge every 5 sec paired with Deaden Pain + Totem + Spirit Guardian + 3 % from Hexproof I get around 53 % damage reduction on my back bar.

First of all: nice build.
Second of all: that is not how damage reduction works. It is not additrive, but multiplicative.
The fromula goes as follows:
1-(1-BATTLE_SPIRIT)*(1-RESISTANCE/660/100)*(1-MAJOR_PROTECTION)*(1-MINOR_PROTECTION)*(1-SPIRIT_GUARDIAN)*(1-HEX_PROOF) =
1-(1-50%)*(1-29000/660/100)*(1-30%)*(1-8%)*(1-10%)*(1-3%) = 84,24%

Congratulations! You have made a very resistant build!
I haven't called it "tanky" because you lack some powerfull HOTS that would further mitigate incoming damage.
My testing shows that Intensive Mender gives more tankiness even though it doesn't give more resistance. Also I have swapped Resistant Flesh for Rapid Regeneration. However your build looks less intensive on the rotation side - easier. I might try it out.

Revokus

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Revokus wrote: »

Major protection from Steadfast Hero when you purge every 5 sec paired with Deaden Pain + Totem + Spirit Guardian + 3 % from Hexproof I get around 53 % damage reduction on my back bar.

First of all: nice build.
Second of all: that is not how damage reduction works. It is not additrive, but multiplicative.
The fromula goes as follows:
1-(1-BATTLE_SPIRIT)*(1-RESISTANCE/660/100)*(1-MAJOR_PROTECTION)*(1-MINOR_PROTECTION)*(1-SPIRIT_GUARDIAN)*(1-HEX_PROOF) =
1-(1-50%)*(1-29000/660/100)*(1-30%)*(1-8%)*(1-10%)*(1-3%) = 84,24%

Congratulations! You have made a very resistant build!
I haven't called it "tanky" because you lack some powerfull HOTS that would further mitigate incoming damage.
My testing shows that Intensive Mender gives more tankiness even though it doesn't give more resistance. Also I have swapped Resistant Flesh for Rapid Regeneration. However your build looks less intensive on the rotation side - easier. I might try it out.

Thanks for the calculations. I’m not good with math

mursie

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Cernunnos55 wrote: »

So I'm attempting to put together a light armour MagCro.

Front bar Inferno with Expunge & Modify, Stalking Blastbones, Spirit Guardian, Elemental Weapon, Elemental Drain. Glacial Colossus.

Back bar resto with Harness Magicka, Summoner's Armour, Resistant Flesh, Deaden Pain, Rapid Regen. Bone Goliath.

Something will be removed to accommodate Degeneration, and I am at present undecided on armour sets.

Rip it apart, improve it, tell me I'll die in 0.1 seconds or say what works well.

While Expunge and Modify isn't necessarily a "bad" ability, I think it's fairly overrated for PvP. Sure, cleansing 2 debuffs and gaining back some resources is nice, but I'm usually already under fire when I need that cleanse the most, and that's a time where I can't afford to lose both ~2k HP and a GCD...at least not if my opponent(s) are decent. I'd recommend replacing it with Renewing Undeath, which is a fairly solid AOE heal that will also cleanse 3 debuffs (which works on teammates as well) + provide a ground based HOT if there's a corpse within its area.

The Spirit Guardian is solid, but I personally prefer using the Intensive Mender morph instead. It casts a very substantial heal (when it doesn't bug out), and provides more frequent corpses, which is useful for Renewing Undeath. If you're exclusively playing in premade groups that have a dedicated healer, Spirit Guardian might be a bit better since it can be cast half as often, the heal isn't as needed, and it'll help reduce burst damage against you.

I don't find shields to be worth it right now; their cost to size ratio is pretty atrocious, and Harness will no longer provide "infinite" magicka if being attacked by another magicka class. Your "active" survivability, to the extent that you have any, will come from heals, dodge rolls, and getting range/LOS. If I die a lot in a BG, it's for one of two reasons; 1) repeated insta-death from ludicrous levels of burst damage from mostly Stamina builds, or 2) my team is terrible and at least one of the opposing ones isn't. Having a shield that absorbs ~5k and costs nearly 4k magicka (and that's with reduction from Breton and 5 light armor) wouldn't help noticeably in those situations, especially since I'd have to drop another ability to make room for it.

Deaden Pain looks good on paper, but in practice isn't really very reliable. There are simply too many situations where you may *need* it immediately, but don't have corpses available. If I were going to start using this ability again, I'd probably switch to the other morph and use it as much as possible after combat in order to keep my ultimate up.

I've played around with a few different build variations lately, but what I'm preferring so far is:
Necropotence, Bright-Throat's Boast, Bloodspawn (both heavy), with 3x Protective Jewelry (haven't bothered transmuting those from what they were before, but maybe I should?), and the tri-stat drink. I think both Bloodspawn pieces are still on their default HP enchants, while chest/legs are tri-stat, other body pieces are magicka, and jewelry are all spell damage.

Flame Staff bar: Degeneration, Invigorating Drain, Stalking Blastbones, Intensive Mender, Consuming Trap. Ultimate - varies.

Resto Staff bar: Summoner's Armor, Rapid Regen, Renewing Undeath, Race Against Time, Skeletal Mage. Ultimate - Life Giver.

I've tried several different offensive ultimates, but haven't fully settled on one. Vamp Drain can help Meteor land unblocked, and if my Blastbones decides that he wants to explode at a similar point in time, it's good burst. The Colossus is also pretty strong, of course, and can combo well with Vamp Drain on one target, or the class' totem on multiple targets (but timing is unreliable if there's a lot of movement going on at the time). Bats also aren't half bad, and if you've leveled up 2h and use a spammable, you can even run the ridiculously overpowered Onslaught (I once got hit for 7k by Ricochet Skull in no-CP, thanks to the 12 seconds of penetration from Onslaught).

Animate Blastbones can even do OK for (delayed) burst sometimes, as long as you have the opportunity to get everything set up properly. The really huge cost and general unreliability of Blastbones are big problems for this ultimate, though, and means that it's really just relegated to being a fun little toy to play around with on occasion. It also has a super obvious telegraph, though I guess lots of people aren't familiar with it yet, since no one actually uses this ultimate.

i would follow this post for a magcro build if looking for advice. it hits all the relevant points.

my only disagreement, and it is minor, is selection of invigorating vs accelerating drain. drain is hitting super hard. accelerating channels faster and hits 1 tick longer. why take invig - my 2 cents.