magicka necromancer

Canned_Apples

noticed exp is on sale- wondering if the magicka necromancer has it's own identity in no-cp/bgs, or if the meta builds use generic abilities?

SpiderCultist

yep, it does have it (its own identity) with pets and coils (using bodies)

Canned_Apples

SpiderCultist wrote: »

yep, it does have it (its own identity) with pets and coils (using bodies)

what about spammables?

Canned_Apples

I've noticed builds usually use crushing shock..

wheem_ESO

There are some worthwhile class abilities, but as of the current patch, Magicka Necromancer absolutely needs the generic DOTs in order to have even a passable level of offense. There are some solid healing and utility spells available, and it's possible that Blastbones will eventually become more reliable, but the class' offensive toolkit really isn't that great.

The available spells are:
Ricochet Skull: It's a decent spammable where every third cast gets +20% damage and can bounce to two other targets. I haven't been using a spammable this patch, but prior to Scalebreaker it was one of two non-ultimate, offensive class abilities that was actually worth a bar slot. The recently buffed Force Pulse/Crushing Shock might be better now, though, at least in part because Ricochet Skull does not like being weaved; having them "queue up" unintentionally was extremely common for me, and it would completely shut down my light attacks.

Blastbones: Can be snared/rooted/stunned/etc...while also having poor pathing and AI, but hits decently hard when it does land. Can be blocked, dodged (even though it's AOE), and you're not able to re-cast the ability while an existing Blastbones is still active. This can be a real problem in some situations, such as when an enemy player is fleeing/kiting, or if they die before the Blastbones connects, and he picks the "wrong" target to go after next.

Boneyard: Ground-based AOE DOT that has low damage unless cast on top of a corpse. One morph provides Major Breach and Major Fracture to enemies inside the 6m area, but those debuffs vanish as soon as the target moves outside of it. The other morph, Avid Boneyard, allows for a self-synergy that can do some decent burst damage with Harmony Jewelry, but the activation area is very finnicky, especially if other synergies are available in the area. I honestly didn't find trying to fiddle with this ability to be very effective against good players in most situations, but you can still catch people off-guard with it from time to time.

Skeletal Mage: Notice that I said *Mage* and not Arcanist - morphing this ability for Magicka builds is a straight downgrade for PvP. All that does is turn the attack into a tiny 4m AOE, which really just provides Stamina builds a 25% damage reduction against it. This pseudo-pet was garbage prior to Scalebreaker, but now actually does some decent damage (roughly equivalent to a single target DOT), triggers Necropotence, and provides an extra corpse to work with. And while it can't be cleansed like single target DOTs can, you also can't choose its target (it nukes whatever is closest...including pets potentially), and it can also be line of sighted.

Mystic Siphon: Ground-based AOE DOT that requires a corpse to cast, and "tethers" you to said corpse. The damage only occurs if people stand in the AOE or touch the relatively narrow tether-beam, and is quite weak even if someone stands in it the entire time (which they won't). The tether will also be broken if a targeted player-corpse respawns, or you LOS/out-range the body at any point over the duration. There's also a bug that can cause your character to spin around 180 degrees and waste a GCD when trying to activate the skill. While the skill doesn't take any resources to cast, and can return a small amount of magicka over the 12 second duration (or however many seconds you get before the tether is broken), it's certainly not worth the bar slot for PvP.

Frozen Colossus: Potentially a very strong ultimate, but can be really situational against good players who aren't lagging. There are myriad situations where another offensive ultimate would be (much) better, but if you ever get a good clump in an area that they can't easily escape with 1 dodge roll, this ultimate can really put in work.

And that's pretty much it for the offensive toolkit, since the Scythe isn't a "real" damaging skill for PvP. It was incredibly good for AOE grinding while leveling up, and it might be OK for zerging around Cyrodiil, if you're actually getting in melee range often enough. But for BGs? Nah.

Canned_Apples

I guess it's possible it'll be fixed in a few patches...
I'll give it a go. the next sale Black Fredas will have a similar discount.

Insco851

wheem_ESO wrote: »

There are some worthwhile class abilities, but as of the current patch, Magicka Necromancer absolutely needs the generic DOTs in order to have even a passable level of offense. There are some solid healing and utility spells available, and it's possible that Blastbones will eventually become more reliable, but the class' offensive toolkit really isn't that great.

The available spells are:
Ricochet Skull: It's a decent spammable where every third cast gets +20% damage and can bounce to two other targets. I haven't been using a spammable this patch, but prior to Scalebreaker it was one of two non-ultimate, offensive class abilities that was actually worth a bar slot. The recently buffed Force Pulse/Crushing Shock might be better now, though, at least in part because Ricochet Skull does not like being weaved; having them "queue up" unintentionally was extremely common for me, and it would completely shut down my light attacks.

Blastbones: Can be snared/rooted/stunned/etc...while also having poor pathing and AI, but hits decently hard when it does land. Can be blocked, dodged (even though it's AOE), and you're not able to re-cast the ability while an existing Blastbones is still active. This can be a real problem in some situations, such as when an enemy player is fleeing/kiting, or if they die before the Blastbones connects, and he picks the "wrong" target to go after next.

Boneyard: Ground-based AOE DOT that has low damage unless cast on top of a corpse. One morph provides Major Breach and Major Fracture to enemies inside the 6m area, but those debuffs vanish as soon as the target moves outside of it. The other morph, Avid Boneyard, allows for a self-synergy that can do some decent burst damage with Harmony Jewelry, but the activation area is very finnicky, especially if other synergies are available in the area. I honestly didn't find trying to fiddle with this ability to be very effective against good players in most situations, but you can still catch people off-guard with it from time to time.

Skeletal Mage: Notice that I said *Mage* and not Arcanist - morphing this ability for Magicka builds is a straight downgrade for PvP. All that does is turn the attack into a tiny 4m AOE, which really just provides Stamina builds a 25% damage reduction against it. This pseudo-pet was garbage prior to Scalebreaker, but now actually does some decent damage (roughly equivalent to a single target DOT), triggers Necropotence, and provides an extra corpse to work with. And while it can't be cleansed like single target DOTs can, you also can't choose its target (it nukes whatever is closest...including pets potentially), and it can also be line of sighted.

Mystic Siphon: Ground-based AOE DOT that requires a corpse to cast, and "tethers" you to said corpse. The damage only occurs if people stand in the AOE or touch the relatively narrow tether-beam, and is quite weak even if someone stands in it the entire time (which they won't). The tether will also be broken if a targeted player-corpse respawns, or you LOS/out-range the body at any point over the duration. There's also a bug that can cause your character to spin around 180 degrees and waste a GCD when trying to activate the skill. While the skill doesn't take any resources to cast, and can return a small amount of magicka over the 12 second duration (or however many seconds you get before the tether is broken), it's certainly not worth the bar slot for PvP.

Frozen Colossus: Potentially a very strong ultimate, but can be really situational against good players who aren't lagging. There are myriad situations where another offensive ultimate would be (much) better, but if you ever get a good clump in an area that they can't easily escape with 1 dodge roll, this ultimate can really put in work.

And that's pretty much it for the offensive toolkit, since the Scythe isn't a "real" damaging skill for PvP. It was incredibly good for AOE grinding while leveling up, and it might be OK for zerging around Cyrodiil, if you're actually getting in melee range often enough. But for BGs? Nah.

Avid Boneyard is very strong synergy used with the ulti+harmony. Combined with the armor buff that pulls ranged attackers.... and then scythe can be used as a cleave execute due to the max crit chance if you have enough grave lord abilities on that bar.

It’s not really controllable. Otherwise I feel like I’m just playing a magden that has a less dependable delayed burst.

Stibbons

Too few bodies in bgs to utilize most of the skills. In wvw same thing 90% of time.

Ankael07

Looks fun on paper but a nightmare to work in practice. Almost every skill is bugged and unless ZoS even acknowledge this I wouldnt recommend anyone to touch the class

katorga

Ankael07 wrote: »

Looks fun on paper but a nightmare to work in practice. Almost every skill is bugged and unless ZoS even acknowledge this I wouldnt recommend anyone to touch the class

I agree. Only do it if you have already leveled up and maxed out every other class.

Blastbones is hit or miss, even in pve. It just doesn't work half the time.

The tether skills are only useful in pve, and bug out about 25% of the time.They are so bad, that ZOS made them free to cast. Think about that.

Avid Boneyard's self synergy is really cool, but the base skill is terrible, expensive and low damage and the synergy doesn't do that much damage if you factor in the cool down and are not using harmony traits.

The pets routinely forget to heal or do damage. They target the wrong thing. And it feels like you are continually casting them.

Note most of the problems apply to stamina too, but you at least have weapon skills to fall back on.

Revokus

And hopefully we get changes in Dragonhold for Necromancer because Sadly it looks like they are focusing on class identity for other classes and they're might still be no fixes for Necromancer.

I hope I'm wrong.

Revokus

wheem_ESO wrote: »

There are some worthwhile class abilities, but as of the current patch, Magicka Necromancer absolutely needs the generic DOTs in order to have even a passable level of offense. There are some solid healing and utility spells available, and it's possible that Blastbones will eventually become more reliable, but the class' offensive toolkit really isn't that great.

The available spells are:
Ricochet Skull: It's a decent spammable where every third cast gets +20% damage and can bounce to two other targets. I haven't been using a spammable this patch, but prior to Scalebreaker it was one of two non-ultimate, offensive class abilities that was actually worth a bar slot. The recently buffed Force Pulse/Crushing Shock might be better now, though, at least in part because Ricochet Skull does not like being weaved; having them "queue up" unintentionally was extremely common for me, and it would completely shut down my light attacks.

Blastbones: Can be snared/rooted/stunned/etc...while also having poor pathing and AI, but hits decently hard when it does land. Can be blocked, dodged (even though it's AOE), and you're not able to re-cast the ability while an existing Blastbones is still active. This can be a real problem in some situations, such as when an enemy player is fleeing/kiting, or if they die before the Blastbones connects, and he picks the "wrong" target to go after next.

Boneyard: Ground-based AOE DOT that has low damage unless cast on top of a corpse. One morph provides Major Breach and Major Fracture to enemies inside the 6m area, but those debuffs vanish as soon as the target moves outside of it. The other morph, Avid Boneyard, allows for a self-synergy that can do some decent burst damage with Harmony Jewelry, but the activation area is very finnicky, especially if other synergies are available in the area. I honestly didn't find trying to fiddle with this ability to be very effective against good players in most situations, but you can still catch people off-guard with it from time to time.

Skeletal Mage: Notice that I said *Mage* and not Arcanist - morphing this ability for Magicka builds is a straight downgrade for PvP. All that does is turn the attack into a tiny 4m AOE, which really just provides Stamina builds a 25% damage reduction against it. This pseudo-pet was garbage prior to Scalebreaker, but now actually does some decent damage (roughly equivalent to a single target DOT), triggers Necropotence, and provides an extra corpse to work with. And while it can't be cleansed like single target DOTs can, you also can't choose its target (it nukes whatever is closest...including pets potentially), and it can also be line of sighted.

Mystic Siphon: Ground-based AOE DOT that requires a corpse to cast, and "tethers" you to said corpse. The damage only occurs if people stand in the AOE or touch the relatively narrow tether-beam, and is quite weak even if someone stands in it the entire time (which they won't). The tether will also be broken if a targeted player-corpse respawns, or you LOS/out-range the body at any point over the duration. There's also a bug that can cause your character to spin around 180 degrees and waste a GCD when trying to activate the skill. While the skill doesn't take any resources to cast, and can return a small amount of magicka over the 12 second duration (or however many seconds you get before the tether is broken), it's certainly not worth the bar slot for PvP.

Frozen Colossus: Potentially a very strong ultimate, but can be really situational against good players who aren't lagging. There are myriad situations where another offensive ultimate would be (much) better, but if you ever get a good clump in an area that they can't easily escape with 1 dodge roll, this ultimate can really put in work.

And that's pretty much it for the offensive toolkit, since the Scythe isn't a "real" damaging skill for PvP. It was incredibly good for AOE grinding while leveling up, and it might be OK for zerging around Cyrodiil, if you're actually getting in melee range often enough. But for BGs? Nah.

And hopefully you guys are reading this. I couldn't have said it any better. It perfectly sums of all of the pain points Necromancers have in pvp at the moment

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam

Ariades_swe

My necro feels much stronger than last patch, especially in a 1v1 but as other said there's problems with the class.

Qbiken

I do like magicka necromancer at the moment. Feels really strong when put in a group scenario (PvP), but lacks the mobilty to be really strong for solo play. One thing I would like to see is a small rework of Mortal Coil:

Braided Tether

Siphon the last remnants of life from a corpse, healing for [14730 / 14839 / 14994 / 15173] Health over 12 seconds to yourself, all allies around you, and all allies between you and the corpse. This ability scales off your highest offensive stats. While slotted, your healing done is increased by 3%.

Mortal Coil
Reduces the range of the ability to 20 meters, but gain major expedition while siphoning a corpse

Siphon the last remnants of life from a corpse, healing for [14730 / 14725 / 14730 / 14730] Health over 12 seconds to yourself and all allies between you and the corpse. This portion of the ability scales off your highest offensive stats. You also gain major expedition while siphoning the corpse. While slotted, your healing done is increased by 3%.

Insco851

Qbiken wrote: »

I do like magicka necromancer at the moment. Feels really strong when put in a group scenario (PvP), but lacks the mobilty to be really strong for solo play. One thing I would like to see is a small rework of Mortal Coil:

Braided Tether

Siphon the last remnants of life from a corpse, healing for [14730 / 14839 / 14994 / 15173] Health over 12 seconds to yourself, all allies around you, and all allies between you and the corpse. This ability scales off your highest offensive stats. While slotted, your healing done is increased by 3%.

Mortal Coil
Reduces the range of the ability to 20 meters, but gain major expedition while siphoning a corpse

Siphon the last remnants of life from a corpse, healing for [14730 / 14725 / 14730 / 14730] Health over 12 seconds to yourself and all allies between you and the corpse. This portion of the ability scales off your highest offensive stats. You also gain major expedition while siphoning the corpse. While slotted, your healing done is increased by 3%.

It’s already a stand your ground type class and that wouldn’t exactly make it any less so. You’d still be tethered to the corpse. Even if it’s mobile in that area- it would be better-ish.

Maulkin

Canned_Apples wrote: »

noticed exp is on sale- wondering if the magicka necromancer has it's own identity in no-cp/bgs, or if the meta builds use generic abilities?

Only a little bit. Like others have said, it relies heavily on the newly buffed DoTs.

Personally I run Entropy, SoulTrap, Masterreach and Mage. That's 4 offensive skills, all of which are DoTs which create pressure, but only 1 Necro skill. I still don't like blastbones, that skill is a DPS loss. It's good burst when it hits but it just gets stunned, killed, lost or blocked 99% of the time.

mursie

posted in another thread but yes - magnecro feels much better in scalebreaker.

entropy, trap, spirit guardian, bone armor, arcanist, renewing death, accelerating drain, rapid regen buff and slight revision/help to blastbones plus one of the hardest hitting ults in game. it's no where near as poo as it was imho.

Krileon

Magicka Necromancer is useless in PVP. I've yet to ever die from one. They've no means of burst or real execute. Blastbones is useless as I just CC/kill it before it even gets to me. Best they can do is DoT you up and run away, which is easily dealt with using purge and regen. Their only real strength is major vulnerability from their ultimate, but all you need to do is dodge roll as soon as you see the massively telegraphed attack and you're safe.

They need to fix blastbones. Until they do you'll never be able to push people over the edge and will just end up with assists as Magicka (Stamina is actually quite good). IMO Blastbones should be scrapped entirely for some other skill that's more reliable. If they insist on keeping it it needs to be CC immune and unkillable so your only option is dodge or block. Next make the passive crit chance execute start at 35% instead of 25%.

That still leaves you with little to no class identity since you'll be using a bunch of generic skills. The reason for this is the bad tethering and corpse management they've developed for the class, which just doesn't work in a mobile environment like PVP. It would be better if tethers were attached to a living create instead of a corpse then add a cast cost back to the tethers.

theshockcable

Magnecro is strong right now. Build one. Use the skills. Here's a hint.. try the pets.

The things that suck with the necro is that the pets have a duration timer and you have to be in combat to cast them.
Unlike the sorc class.

It needs a rework to be strong like the sorc class. No duration timers.

Ariades_swe

theshockcable wrote: »

Magnecro is strong right now. Build one. Use the skills. Here's a hint.. try the pets.

The things that suck with the necro is that the pets have a duration timer and you have to be in combat to cast them.
Unlike the sorc class.

It needs a rework to be strong like the sorc class. No duration timers.

Agree they feel good now.

Insco851

theshockcable wrote: »

Magnecro is strong right now. Build one. Use the skills. Here's a hint.. try the pets.

The things that suck with the necro is that the pets have a duration timer and you have to be in combat to cast them.
Unlike the sorc class.

It needs a rework to be strong like the sorc class. No duration timers.

In combat to cast the pets? Am I playing a different game?

Cernunnos55

Pretty sure you don't have to be in combat to cast Necro pets...

katorga

If they insist on keeping it it needs to be CC immune and unkillable so your only option is dodge or block. Next make the passive crit chance execute start at 35% instead of 25%.

That is good idea. If they can be CC'd, snared, etc., then they need ignore block and dodge (they are AOE, why can they be dodged?).

If they can be blocked or dodged, then they need to be CC/snare immune.

If they can be CC, snared, etc.,, as well as blocked and dodged, then they need to inherit the immunity status and movement speed of the caster. If I have snare immunity, CC immunity and 60% movement speed...so should my Blastbones - that makes for interesting game play.

Either way, they need to fix the mechanical bugs of blastbones where it just stands there and refuses to function for no reason.

Ucarious

Okay so I switched my sorc build to my nord mag necro and it's not bad and yes there is a secret with the pets and stuff.

Overall mag necro if built right feels really good and with fixes might even surpass magplar imo.

Cernunnos55

Ucarious wrote: »

Okay so I switched my sorc build to my nord mag necro and it's not bad and yes there is a secret with the pets and stuff.

Overall mag necro if built right feels really good and with fixes might even surpass magplar imo.

Is the secret... meatshields?

Ucarious

Cernunnos55 wrote: »

Ucarious wrote: »

Okay so I switched my sorc build to my nord mag necro and it's not bad and yes there is a secret with the pets and stuff.

Overall mag necro if built right feels really good and with fixes might even surpass magplar imo.

Is the secret... meatshields?

No lmao, don't morph mage so it's damage won't get nerfed by evasion.

jaws343

The thing I like about Mag necro is that you can get away with stacking magic more so than other classes. Alfiq and BtB with a damage monster set is very viable. Since you have a skill that provides major protection and another skill that provides 10% damage mitigation, you can also stack minor protection on top of those. Plus you have access to a purge that restores resources and armor increasing skills. You can get very tanky in light armor running damage sets.

Ucarious

jaws343 wrote: »

The thing I like about Mag necro is that you can get away with stacking magic more so than other classes. Alfiq and BtB with a damage monster set is very viable. Since you have a skill that provides major protection and another skill that provides 10% damage mitigation, you can also stack minor protection on top of those. Plus you have access to a purge that restores resources and armor increasing skills. You can get very tanky in light armor running damage sets.

Why would you ever run alfiq when necropotence exists O.o

Insco851

Ucarious wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The thing I like about Mag necro is that you can get away with stacking magic more so than other classes. Alfiq and BtB with a damage monster set is very viable. Since you have a skill that provides major protection and another skill that provides 10% damage mitigation, you can also stack minor protection on top of those. Plus you have access to a purge that restores resources and armor increasing skills. You can get very tanky in light armor running damage sets.

Why would you ever run alfiq when necropotence exists O.o

Small reason I’ve noticed... unlike my magden, pets here cost resources, don’t last very long, so you lose a decent amount of max mag sustain if the pets ever drop as well as at the start of a fight. With Alfiq, 100% uptime. 1000~ less mag.

Insco851

jaws343 wrote: »

The thing I like about Mag necro is that you can get away with stacking magic more so than other classes. Alfiq and BtB with a damage monster set is very viable. Since you have a skill that provides major protection and another skill that provides 10% damage mitigation, you can also stack minor protection on top of those. Plus you have access to a purge that restores resources and armor increasing skills. You can get very tanky in light armor running damage sets.

Current meta- I’ve gotten more mileage out of the intensive mender than I did the 10% mitigation version. Dots is my guess why.

Ucarious

Insco851 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The thing I like about Mag necro is that you can get away with stacking magic more so than other classes. Alfiq and BtB with a damage monster set is very viable. Since you have a skill that provides major protection and another skill that provides 10% damage mitigation, you can also stack minor protection on top of those. Plus you have access to a purge that restores resources and armor increasing skills. You can get very tanky in light armor running damage sets.

Current meta- I’ve gotten more mileage out of the intensive mender than I did the 10% mitigation version. Dots is my guess why.

One would think the 10% mitigation healing pet would be better but strangely on a magcro the intensive mender is just balls to the wall good especially when you're using hexproof more than usual atm (we all know why)

And on top of that stupid heal we have our burst heal that adds resistances and light armor shield.