Tank Sets

D0PAMINE

Swordbreaker wrote: »

I'm putting together a Necromancer tank build, following Alcast's guide (https://alcasthq.com/eso-necromancer-tank-build-pve/), but i'm not totally happy with this build guide and wanna change some stuff, but wondering about a few different sets. I'd love some opinions on each of these sets from people who are more experienced with vet dungeons and trials than i am.

EBON ARMORY: https://eso-sets.com/set/ebon-armory
I see this set used in nearly every Tank build and i dont see why. It's 5-piece effect seems extremely lackluster, adding only 1000 health to each team mate. I dont feel like that's really enough to make a noticeable difference toward their survivability. I personally replace this set with Plague Doctor's, since it adds far more health to the person who needs it the most: the tank.

LEECHING PLATE: https://eso-sets.com/set/leeching-plate
This seems like a pretty decent set for adding a little bit of extra DPS to the group, but also provides quite a bit of healing for the tank, but i never see it used in any meta builds. Why?

BATTALION DEFENDER: https://eso-sets.com/set/battalion-defender
This seems really great for providing support heals to yourself and the entire team, since a tank is blocking so much of the time. But again, i never see it used in any meta builds? Why?

WARRIOR POET: https://eso-sets.com/set/warrior-poet
This one seems like a great combo with Plague doctor's, but i've never seen anyone even so much as mention it. I'm assuming that Minor/Major Toughness is added by the healer? If not, then why is this never used? It also adds another 4% healing received, which goes great with Ebon Armory or Plague Doctor's

Heres my beginner build https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=169516

VaranisArano

daedalusAI wrote: »

Vicarra wrote: »

For survivability, I would 100% recommend plague doctor over ebon any day of the week, and I will fight anyone who says ebon is better in a dungeon setting. Ebon is for trial off tanks, or even healers. If you're in anything less than a pro dungeon group, run plague doctor if you want the safety buffer. It gives you much better results from your necro skills that rely on health, and you'll get better shields from it as well. Ebon is trash for a necro tank, and the only time to use it is if your trial leader orders you to.

Just looking a the naked set bonuses: Plague Doctor offers 5,4k HP + 4% healing taken, Ebon Armory 3,4k HP + 4% healing taken, but additionally 1k HP for group member.

Do you actually believe 2k more HP on a tank is more valuable than an additional 1k HP on the whole group?

In group dungeons, its more situational that that.

To really make Ebon Armory ideal, you'd need a regular group who builds around that extra health, and doesnt need some other utility set or the skills that could benefit from the extra health. Not all premade groups are like that, and as pointed out, some some classes benefit more from the higher health than others.

For PUGs, often times its more important that the tank stay alive and stay effective than it is to give an extra 1k health that may or may not be needed by your random group members. Ebon is nice if you don't need the extra health from Plague Doctor, but its not necessarily ideal depending on your class, build, and the quality of PUGs.

On a more humorous note, it is true in PUGs that nothing screams "I'm a real tank!" at first glance like showing up with Ebon's glowing red balls

Starlock

Just wanted to say this is a really great thread. I’ve been tanking for a while, but never any of that “organized group” stuff so I never really understood some of these set recommendations some folks talk about. This thread provides some very useful context that basically means what I’ve been doing is totally fine if not better than attempting to tank as if I was in some sort of... “progression group” do they call them? I‘ve no interest in that, yeah? Just wanna run me some occasional 4-person dungeons for fun. Since I was told my dps sucks, I tank.

Jeremy

oli.j.reillyb16_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Leeching Plate and Warrior Poet are both pretty good sets for tanking in Veteran Dungeons. Leeching in particular is very nice for oh ____ moments when the DPS is weak and you find yourself inundated with mobs. It can save your life.

Ebon Armory is mostly a raid/trial set I believe - since you get more used out of the health boost that way. Otherwise Plague Doctor is the better set if you want to boost your health. Never played with Battalion Defender so can't comment on that one.

There is literally nowhere in any PvE content whatsoever - where Warrior Poet is a useful set.

If you need to go that tanky there are sets which provide much more utility to everyone and not just you. Choosing WP over any of those is essentially saying I don’t need to run 2 5pc sets because I’d rather just be a useless meat popsicle.

Plague Doctor gets the exact same category - anywhere you think you want Plague - just wear Ebon or Dragon. You’ll be tanky and helpful as opposed to just there.

The sooner any fledgling tank gets over the idea that they only need to stack health to do their job - the better.

You mean the sooner people stop trying to force their own builds onto others - the better.

If a tank wants to stack health, then that's their business. Not every tank has to wear Ebon or Dragon because you say so...

Frostystuff

Jeremy wrote: »

oli.j.reillyb16_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

If a tank wants to stack health, then that's their business. Not every tank has to wear Ebon or Dragon because you say so...

Haven't tanked a trial but

I spent a fair bit of effort getting warhorn and dragon only to find that warhorn was useless in pug normals,
The dps of most of the punters was so low you could double it and they'd still suck, coa1 normal and i was doing 25% of the damage.

Made me jump to vet earlier then i wanted as the mobs are harder but thereare less frustrations.

Is more useful now i am doing vet dungeons but is only break even with something that offers resources,

Considering a configuration were i can switch between a rest staff or a two hander depending on who sucks, the dps or the healer. Nefas recently had a templer hybrid tank healer that could be used like that.

Frostystuff

Sorry accidentally put my comment in the quate and don't know were the edit button is

Jeremy

Frostystuff wrote: »

Sorry accidentally put my comment in the quate and don't know were the edit button is

You have to refresh the page to see the edit button. Not sure why. It's kinda annoying. It's in the top right corner of your post.

MattT1988

The sets I’ve got on hand:

Ebon (I use this the most)
Torugs Pact
Alkosh (weapons/jewellery)
Dragonguard
Battalion Defender
Hircines Veneer (weapons/jewellery) (fantastic when your group is stacked with Stam, especially for all the StamCros in VSS)
Worm Cult (weapons/jewellery) (for when your group is stacked with mag DPS)
Olorime (weapons/jewellery)
Yol
Plague Doctor


Combinations of those sets above get me through any content in the game. I’ve probably missed some good sets, but that’s what works for me and my group.

GallantGuardian

essi2 wrote: »

Fortified Brass
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type Craftable
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(4 items) Adds 2975 Spell Resistance
(5 items) Adds 5170 Spell Resistance, Adds 5170 Physical Resistance

^Assuming you are not resistance capped already.

Livewire
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type Overland
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(3 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(4 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(5 items) When you take damage, you have a 25% chance to overload your circuits, applying Concussion to enemies within 8 meters of you and healing for 1000 Health for each enemy hit. This effect can occur once every 8 seconds.

Warrior-Poet
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type Overland
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 2975 Spell Resistance
(4 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(5 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health, Gain Minor Toughness at all times, increasing your Maximum Health by 10%.

Sanctuary
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type Dungeon
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) Increases your healing received by 12% for you and up to 11 group members within 10 meters of you.

My main tank runs Fortified Brass / Livewire atm and doing well enough.

Not a fan of Ebon Armoury, it breeds weak DDs

Lol I like this ... I hate running Ebon ill do it if the group wants but I’d much rather run other sets

daedalusAI

Jeremy wrote: »

oli.j.reillyb16_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Leeching Plate and Warrior Poet are both pretty good sets for tanking in Veteran Dungeons. Leeching in particular is very nice for oh ____ moments when the DPS is weak and you find yourself inundated with mobs. It can save your life.

Ebon Armory is mostly a raid/trial set I believe - since you get more used out of the health boost that way. Otherwise Plague Doctor is the better set if you want to boost your health. Never played with Battalion Defender so can't comment on that one.

There is literally nowhere in any PvE content whatsoever - where Warrior Poet is a useful set.

If you need to go that tanky there are sets which provide much more utility to everyone and not just you. Choosing WP over any of those is essentially saying I don’t need to run 2 5pc sets because I’d rather just be a useless meat popsicle.

Plague Doctor gets the exact same category - anywhere you think you want Plague - just wear Ebon or Dragon. You’ll be tanky and helpful as opposed to just there.

The sooner any fledgling tank gets over the idea that they only need to stack health to do their job - the better.

You mean the sooner people stop trying to force their own builds onto others - the better.

If a tank wants to stack health, then that's their business. Not every tank has to wear Ebon or Dragon because you say so...

You can have that opinion that a tank opts for a selfish set to e.g. stack health, but you completely ignore how ESO's combat is built around stacking as much buffs on your group/debuffs on the enemy as possible.

To extrapolate your point of view and show how it's flawed: compare e.g. a 4-man dungeon group in which everyone just uses self-buffs which don't buff the group and almost no debuffs vs. a 4-man group who tries to keep up as much buffs as possible while also trying to debuff enemies as much as possible.

Even you have to be able to understand that the group which maximizes their buffs and debuffs is way faster, does more damage and is playing safer due to more HP/more healing taken/enemies doing less damage etc.

For reference as to how many buffs/debuffs there actually are in the game, and how being selfish in terms of sets is wrong: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Buffshttps://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Buffs

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

daedalusAI wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

oli.j.reillyb16_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Leeching Plate and Warrior Poet are both pretty good sets for tanking in Veteran Dungeons. Leeching in particular is very nice for oh ____ moments when the DPS is weak and you find yourself inundated with mobs. It can save your life.

Ebon Armory is mostly a raid/trial set I believe - since you get more used out of the health boost that way. Otherwise Plague Doctor is the better set if you want to boost your health. Never played with Battalion Defender so can't comment on that one.

There is literally nowhere in any PvE content whatsoever - where Warrior Poet is a useful set.

If you need to go that tanky there are sets which provide much more utility to everyone and not just you. Choosing WP over any of those is essentially saying I don’t need to run 2 5pc sets because I’d rather just be a useless meat popsicle.

Plague Doctor gets the exact same category - anywhere you think you want Plague - just wear Ebon or Dragon. You’ll be tanky and helpful as opposed to just there.

The sooner any fledgling tank gets over the idea that they only need to stack health to do their job - the better.

You mean the sooner people stop trying to force their own builds onto others - the better.

If a tank wants to stack health, then that's their business. Not every tank has to wear Ebon or Dragon because you say so...

You can have that opinion that a tank opts for a selfish set to e.g. stack health, but you completely ignore how ESO's combat is built around stacking as much buffs on your group/debuffs on the enemy as possible.

To extrapolate your point of view and show how it's flawed: compare e.g. a 4-man dungeon group in which everyone just uses self-buffs which don't buff the group and almost no debuffs vs. a 4-man group who tries to keep up as much buffs as possible while also trying to debuff enemies as much as possible.

Even you have to be able to understand that the group which maximizes their buffs and debuffs is way faster, does more damage and is playing safer due to more HP/more healing taken/enemies doing less damage etc.

For reference as to how many buffs/debuffs there actually are in the game, and how being selfish in terms of sets is wrong: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Buffshttps://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Buffs

Look few seconds out of a fight in vet dungeon won't make any difference by having a buffbot Tank or not. Especially in PUGs which apply to 99% of the community is better to live longer.

Similarly Tanks using staff on backbar are for those who want to shave off 1 second on boss fights at leaderboard trial runs, where all DDs are doing over 50K. So worthless again for 99% of the players and community who are doing casual runs with PUGs or guilds.

And same argument needs to be made for Relequen. Which is responsible for the sheer off the cliff drop in DPS the average players are doing. This set promoted by the likes of Alcast has mechanics that when explained to the players run away from the set. Is not for everyone and requires EVERY stamina DD to use it in it's perfected form. (due to it's mechanics of stack onwership).

So as long as the tank does his job to taunt, hold aggro and not die, it doesn't matter if is a buffbot or has 50,000 health, max resist and uses Knightmare and not Ebon.

ayu_fever

my nord DK tank has:

body-
ebon (used 99% of the time)
akaviri dragonguard
leeching plate
plague doctor
torugs pact

weapons and jewelry-
claw of yolnahkriin (used 99% of the time)
roar of alkosh
akaviri dragonguard

monster sets-
thurvokun (used 99% of the time)
lord warden
bloodspawn
earthgore

i have some niche sets (werewolf hide, galanwe, livewire, defiled dragon, withered hand, mighty chudan, etc.) but it isnt every single set combo for every single encounter in the game, but i dont do vet trials anyway. vet dlc dungeons are about my limit of time, effort, and frustrations 😆

Commancho

There are many fun non meta builds. Everything depends on the content and difficulty you play mostly.

phileunderx2

My khajiit warden tank is in yolnahkriin , leeching and bloodspawn. Ran vwgt yesterday and my food buff ran out 2 fights before the end and I didn't notice until we were done.

techprince

I have different setups on my Orc DK tank.

Mighty Chudan + Warrior Poet + Dragon.
Lord Warden + Ebon + Yolnahkriin.
Bloodspawn / Scrouge Harvester + Leeching + Bahraha's Curse.
Stone Keeper + Cyrodiil's Crest + Battalion Defender.

Kimberlin

most the sets listed here I agree with aside from Warrior poet as its not good on a Warden tank with their passive of healing self gives you 10% health buff that does stack or anytime you have a warden with a heal even a stam warden with vigor can render warrior poet useless so better off with almost any other set

Kimberlin

as an off tank I run Plague Doctor body and Worm/Hircine/sanctuary jewelry and weapons to buff the team depending what the needs of the team are, as main tank Plague Doctor/Ebon/dragon paired with alkosh/toruqs pact and if being completely selfish leeching with Plague Doctor

daedalusAI

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

oli.j.reillyb16_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Leeching Plate and Warrior Poet are both pretty good sets for tanking in Veteran Dungeons. Leeching in particular is very nice for oh ____ moments when the DPS is weak and you find yourself inundated with mobs. It can save your life.

Ebon Armory is mostly a raid/trial set I believe - since you get more used out of the health boost that way. Otherwise Plague Doctor is the better set if you want to boost your health. Never played with Battalion Defender so can't comment on that one.

There is literally nowhere in any PvE content whatsoever - where Warrior Poet is a useful set.

If you need to go that tanky there are sets which provide much more utility to everyone and not just you. Choosing WP over any of those is essentially saying I don’t need to run 2 5pc sets because I’d rather just be a useless meat popsicle.

Plague Doctor gets the exact same category - anywhere you think you want Plague - just wear Ebon or Dragon. You’ll be tanky and helpful as opposed to just there.

The sooner any fledgling tank gets over the idea that they only need to stack health to do their job - the better.

You mean the sooner people stop trying to force their own builds onto others - the better.

If a tank wants to stack health, then that's their business. Not every tank has to wear Ebon or Dragon because you say so...

You can have that opinion that a tank opts for a selfish set to e.g. stack health, but you completely ignore how ESO's combat is built around stacking as much buffs on your group/debuffs on the enemy as possible.

To extrapolate your point of view and show how it's flawed: compare e.g. a 4-man dungeon group in which everyone just uses self-buffs which don't buff the group and almost no debuffs vs. a 4-man group who tries to keep up as much buffs as possible while also trying to debuff enemies as much as possible.

Even you have to be able to understand that the group which maximizes their buffs and debuffs is way faster, does more damage and is playing safer due to more HP/more healing taken/enemies doing less damage etc.

For reference as to how many buffs/debuffs there actually are in the game, and how being selfish in terms of sets is wrong: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Buffshttps://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Buffs

Look few seconds out of a fight in vet dungeon won't make any difference by having a buffbot Tank or not. Especially in PUGs which apply to 99% of the community is better to live longer.

Similarly Tanks using staff on backbar are for those who want to shave off 1 second on boss fights at leaderboard trial runs, where all DDs are doing over 50K. So worthless again for 99% of the players and community who are doing casual runs with PUGs or guilds.

And same argument needs to be made for Relequen. Which is responsible for the sheer off the cliff drop in DPS the average players are doing. This set promoted by the likes of Alcast has mechanics that when explained to the players run away from the set. Is not for everyone and requires EVERY stamina DD to use it in it's perfected form. (due to it's mechanics of stack onwership).

So as long as the tank does his job to taunt, hold aggro and not die, it doesn't matter if is a buffbot or has 50,000 health, max resist and uses Knightmare and not Ebon.

Ebon Armory does exactly that: letting you and your group live longer.

If your tank does his job to taunt, hold aggro and not die, but your DPS and healer deal subpar damage it doesn't matter how good you're tanking: they still take ages to kill a simple trash mob.

In that case - which for me happens a lot when playing as tank/healer in random dungeons - even running a Crusher enchant on a destruction staff on your backbar or sets like Dragon's Defilement or Yolnahkriin help them to do more damage, and also help me not to waste more time than a have to with them.

Using Plague Doctor in such a scenario is just shooting yourself in the foot if you can manage to survive and tank with other, more group oriented sets.

El_Borracho

Ebon: Great group set, both trials and dungeons, but more geared for trials. I have heard of some raids where one healer will wear this now as Yolnakhriin was introduced so there can be more group buffs. Maybe that's why some people think Ebon is being phased out.

Leeching Plate: Great vet dungeon run set. Haven't seen much of it in trials in a very long time. I love it.

Battalion Defender: More of a PVP set

Warrior Poet: A great PVP set

techprince

Kimberlin wrote: »

most the sets listed here I agree with aside from Warrior poet as its not good on a Warden tank with their passive of healing self gives you 10% health buff that does stack or anytime you have a warden with a heal even a stam warden with vigor can render warrior poet useless so better off with almost any other set

I use Warrior Poet for 4 man pug runs only as it provides armor buffs as well. There is no guarantee of having a warden in pugs. Even with a warden, i don't expect to have 100% uptime on Minor Toughness.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

Run whatever sets you want. The game is about having fun, not about doing what others demand you wear. As a Tank as long as you taunt, keep aggro, gather mobs and stay alive you are doing fine.

Ebon, hate it. I don't wear Ebon on either of my Tanks. As for all the other off Tank sets that Elitists demand we wear too bad.

I've completed every Trial and every Vet dungeon (except the latest) and have Challenger completed on most DLC dungeons.

Find what you like best for your Tanking style and have fun!

Test your Tanking sets and ability solo. Go to Veteran Aetherian Archive and solo the 7 Fire Attros. It's not hard TBH but it is a lot of fun.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

daedalusAI wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

oli.j.reillyb16_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Leeching Plate and Warrior Poet are both pretty good sets for tanking in Veteran Dungeons. Leeching in particular is very nice for oh ____ moments when the DPS is weak and you find yourself inundated with mobs. It can save your life.

Ebon Armory is mostly a raid/trial set I believe - since you get more used out of the health boost that way. Otherwise Plague Doctor is the better set if you want to boost your health. Never played with Battalion Defender so can't comment on that one.

There is literally nowhere in any PvE content whatsoever - where Warrior Poet is a useful set.

If you need to go that tanky there are sets which provide much more utility to everyone and not just you. Choosing WP over any of those is essentially saying I don’t need to run 2 5pc sets because I’d rather just be a useless meat popsicle.

Plague Doctor gets the exact same category - anywhere you think you want Plague - just wear Ebon or Dragon. You’ll be tanky and helpful as opposed to just there.

The sooner any fledgling tank gets over the idea that they only need to stack health to do their job - the better.

You mean the sooner people stop trying to force their own builds onto others - the better.

If a tank wants to stack health, then that's their business. Not every tank has to wear Ebon or Dragon because you say so...

You can have that opinion that a tank opts for a selfish set to e.g. stack health, but you completely ignore how ESO's combat is built around stacking as much buffs on your group/debuffs on the enemy as possible.

To extrapolate your point of view and show how it's flawed: compare e.g. a 4-man dungeon group in which everyone just uses self-buffs which don't buff the group and almost no debuffs vs. a 4-man group who tries to keep up as much buffs as possible while also trying to debuff enemies as much as possible.

Even you have to be able to understand that the group which maximizes their buffs and debuffs is way faster, does more damage and is playing safer due to more HP/more healing taken/enemies doing less damage etc.

For reference as to how many buffs/debuffs there actually are in the game, and how being selfish in terms of sets is wrong: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Buffshttps://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Buffs

Look few seconds out of a fight in vet dungeon won't make any difference by having a buffbot Tank or not. Especially in PUGs which apply to 99% of the community is better to live longer.

Similarly Tanks using staff on backbar are for those who want to shave off 1 second on boss fights at leaderboard trial runs, where all DDs are doing over 50K. So worthless again for 99% of the players and community who are doing casual runs with PUGs or guilds.

And same argument needs to be made for Relequen. Which is responsible for the sheer off the cliff drop in DPS the average players are doing. This set promoted by the likes of Alcast has mechanics that when explained to the players run away from the set. Is not for everyone and requires EVERY stamina DD to use it in it's perfected form. (due to it's mechanics of stack onwership).

So as long as the tank does his job to taunt, hold aggro and not die, it doesn't matter if is a buffbot or has 50,000 health, max resist and uses Knightmare and not Ebon.

Ebon Armory does exactly that: letting you and your group live longer.

If your tank does his job to taunt, hold aggro and not die, but your DPS and healer deal subpar damage it doesn't matter how good you're tanking: they still take ages to kill a simple trash mob.

In that case - which for me happens a lot when playing as tank/healer in random dungeons - even running a Crusher enchant on a destruction staff on your backbar or sets like Dragon's Defilement or Yolnahkriin help them to do more damage, and also help me not to waste more time than a have to with them.

Using Plague Doctor in such a scenario is just shooting yourself in the foot if you can manage to survive and tank with other, more group oriented sets.

You do understand that the 2H (lets not ignore Bow & 2H here) Crusher, is irrelevant small (800) and doesn't add a lot of damage?
In Normal mode is irrelevant because over penetrating everything with just pierce armor and the innate pen of each DD, in vet mode is irrelevant on trash fights. And the only place that 800 extra penetration is on single target veteran trial boss fights wanting to save off 1 second from the Stamina DDs. Because the Magicka DDs over penetrating either way after Major Fracture/Breach and Minor Fracture/Breach + 1h crushing is applied.

OG_Kaveman

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

oli.j.reillyb16_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Leeching Plate and Warrior Poet are both pretty good sets for tanking in Veteran Dungeons. Leeching in particular is very nice for oh ____ moments when the DPS is weak and you find yourself inundated with mobs. It can save your life.

Ebon Armory is mostly a raid/trial set I believe - since you get more used out of the health boost that way. Otherwise Plague Doctor is the better set if you want to boost your health. Never played with Battalion Defender so can't comment on that one.

There is literally nowhere in any PvE content whatsoever - where Warrior Poet is a useful set.

If you need to go that tanky there are sets which provide much more utility to everyone and not just you. Choosing WP over any of those is essentially saying I don’t need to run 2 5pc sets because I’d rather just be a useless meat popsicle.

Plague Doctor gets the exact same category - anywhere you think you want Plague - just wear Ebon or Dragon. You’ll be tanky and helpful as opposed to just there.

The sooner any fledgling tank gets over the idea that they only need to stack health to do their job - the better.

You mean the sooner people stop trying to force their own builds onto others - the better.

If a tank wants to stack health, then that's their business. Not every tank has to wear Ebon or Dragon because you say so...

You can have that opinion that a tank opts for a selfish set to e.g. stack health, but you completely ignore how ESO's combat is built around stacking as much buffs on your group/debuffs on the enemy as possible.

To extrapolate your point of view and show how it's flawed: compare e.g. a 4-man dungeon group in which everyone just uses self-buffs which don't buff the group and almost no debuffs vs. a 4-man group who tries to keep up as much buffs as possible while also trying to debuff enemies as much as possible.

Even you have to be able to understand that the group which maximizes their buffs and debuffs is way faster, does more damage and is playing safer due to more HP/more healing taken/enemies doing less damage etc.

For reference as to how many buffs/debuffs there actually are in the game, and how being selfish in terms of sets is wrong: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Buffshttps://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Buffs

Look few seconds out of a fight in vet dungeon won't make any difference by having a buffbot Tank or not. Especially in PUGs which apply to 99% of the community is better to live longer.

Similarly Tanks using staff on backbar are for those who want to shave off 1 second on boss fights at leaderboard trial runs, where all DDs are doing over 50K. So worthless again for 99% of the players and community who are doing casual runs with PUGs or guilds.

And same argument needs to be made for Relequen. Which is responsible for the sheer off the cliff drop in DPS the average players are doing. This set promoted by the likes of Alcast has mechanics that when explained to the players run away from the set. Is not for everyone and requires EVERY stamina DD to use it in it's perfected form. (due to it's mechanics of stack onwership).

So as long as the tank does his job to taunt, hold aggro and not die, it doesn't matter if is a buffbot or has 50,000 health, max resist and uses Knightmare and not Ebon.

Ebon Armory does exactly that: letting you and your group live longer.

If your tank does his job to taunt, hold aggro and not die, but your DPS and healer deal subpar damage it doesn't matter how good you're tanking: they still take ages to kill a simple trash mob.

In that case - which for me happens a lot when playing as tank/healer in random dungeons - even running a Crusher enchant on a destruction staff on your backbar or sets like Dragon's Defilement or Yolnahkriin help them to do more damage, and also help me not to waste more time than a have to with them.

Using Plague Doctor in such a scenario is just shooting yourself in the foot if you can manage to survive and tank with other, more group oriented sets.

You do understand that the 2H (lets not ignore Bow & 2H here) Crusher, is irrelevant small (800) and doesn't add a lot of damage?
In Normal mode is irrelevant because over penetrating everything with just pierce armor and the innate pen of each DD, in vet mode is irrelevant on trash fights. And the only place that 800 extra penetration is on single target veteran trial boss fights wanting to save off 1 second from the Stamina DDs. Because the Magicka DDs over penetrating either way after Major Fracture/Breach and Minor Fracture/Breach + 1h crushing is applied.

This is just wrong. Infused crusher adds an average of 1297 pen which is and average damage increase of at least 2.5%, that's huge.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

oli.j.reillyb16_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Leeching Plate and Warrior Poet are both pretty good sets for tanking in Veteran Dungeons. Leeching in particular is very nice for oh ____ moments when the DPS is weak and you find yourself inundated with mobs. It can save your life.

Ebon Armory is mostly a raid/trial set I believe - since you get more used out of the health boost that way. Otherwise Plague Doctor is the better set if you want to boost your health. Never played with Battalion Defender so can't comment on that one.

There is literally nowhere in any PvE content whatsoever - where Warrior Poet is a useful set.

If you need to go that tanky there are sets which provide much more utility to everyone and not just you. Choosing WP over any of those is essentially saying I don’t need to run 2 5pc sets because I’d rather just be a useless meat popsicle.

Plague Doctor gets the exact same category - anywhere you think you want Plague - just wear Ebon or Dragon. You’ll be tanky and helpful as opposed to just there.

The sooner any fledgling tank gets over the idea that they only need to stack health to do their job - the better.

You mean the sooner people stop trying to force their own builds onto others - the better.

If a tank wants to stack health, then that's their business. Not every tank has to wear Ebon or Dragon because you say so...

You can have that opinion that a tank opts for a selfish set to e.g. stack health, but you completely ignore how ESO's combat is built around stacking as much buffs on your group/debuffs on the enemy as possible.

To extrapolate your point of view and show how it's flawed: compare e.g. a 4-man dungeon group in which everyone just uses self-buffs which don't buff the group and almost no debuffs vs. a 4-man group who tries to keep up as much buffs as possible while also trying to debuff enemies as much as possible.

Even you have to be able to understand that the group which maximizes their buffs and debuffs is way faster, does more damage and is playing safer due to more HP/more healing taken/enemies doing less damage etc.

For reference as to how many buffs/debuffs there actually are in the game, and how being selfish in terms of sets is wrong: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Buffshttps://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Buffs

Look few seconds out of a fight in vet dungeon won't make any difference by having a buffbot Tank or not. Especially in PUGs which apply to 99% of the community is better to live longer.

Similarly Tanks using staff on backbar are for those who want to shave off 1 second on boss fights at leaderboard trial runs, where all DDs are doing over 50K. So worthless again for 99% of the players and community who are doing casual runs with PUGs or guilds.

And same argument needs to be made for Relequen. Which is responsible for the sheer off the cliff drop in DPS the average players are doing. This set promoted by the likes of Alcast has mechanics that when explained to the players run away from the set. Is not for everyone and requires EVERY stamina DD to use it in it's perfected form. (due to it's mechanics of stack onwership).

So as long as the tank does his job to taunt, hold aggro and not die, it doesn't matter if is a buffbot or has 50,000 health, max resist and uses Knightmare and not Ebon.

Ebon Armory does exactly that: letting you and your group live longer.

If your tank does his job to taunt, hold aggro and not die, but your DPS and healer deal subpar damage it doesn't matter how good you're tanking: they still take ages to kill a simple trash mob.

In that case - which for me happens a lot when playing as tank/healer in random dungeons - even running a Crusher enchant on a destruction staff on your backbar or sets like Dragon's Defilement or Yolnahkriin help them to do more damage, and also help me not to waste more time than a have to with them.

Using Plague Doctor in such a scenario is just shooting yourself in the foot if you can manage to survive and tank with other, more group oriented sets.

You do understand that the 2H (lets not ignore Bow & 2H here) Crusher, is irrelevant small (800) and doesn't add a lot of damage?
In Normal mode is irrelevant because over penetrating everything with just pierce armor and the innate pen of each DD, in vet mode is irrelevant on trash fights. And the only place that 800 extra penetration is on single target veteran trial boss fights wanting to save off 1 second from the Stamina DDs. Because the Magicka DDs over penetrating either way after Major Fracture/Breach and Minor Fracture/Breach + 1h crushing is applied.

This is just wrong. Infused crusher adds an average of 1297 pen which is and average damage increase of at least 2.5%, that's huge.

You do realise vet content doesn't have infinite resistances, and you pull numbers out of your head without any proof or maths?

OG_Kaveman

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

You do realise vet content doesn't have infinite resistances, and you pull numbers out of your head without any proof or maths?

so for spell pen-

Spell Penetration:

target debuffs

Infused Crusher- 2107

Infused Crusher with Torug- 2740

Roar of Alkosh- 3010

Major Breach- 5280

Minor Breach- 1320

self only buffs

lover with no divines-2,752

lover with 7 divines- 4,196

Light Armor Passive- 4884

Spinners set- 3450

Sharpened 2h- 2752

CP's: Variable, depending of sets and debuffs in use.


also the destro 10% gets taken off after all the debuffs on the target just like maces, ie crusher, major and minor breach, alkosh, so it is really not worth mentioning. the absolute most it could be is 1810 pen but most of the time you will have at least Major Breach on the target, which bring it down to 1282. then it just gets worse from there.

armor Penetration:

target debuffs

crusher enchantment - 1,622

Infused Crusher- 2,107

Infused Crusher with Torug- 2,740

Roar of Alkosh- 3,010

Major Breach- 5,280

Minor Breach- 1,320

self only buffs

lover with no divines-2,752

lover with 7 divines- 4,196

Sharpened 2h- 2,752

Sharpened 1h -1,376

twice fanged snake set- 4,300

spriggans set- 3,450

Tzogvin's Warband set - 1,487

Kra'gh monster set - 1,487

Unfathomable Darkness set - 1,487


CP's: Variable, depending of sets and debuffs in use but up to 5280


also the mauls/maces 20/10% gets taken off after all the debuffs on the target, IE crusher, major and minor breach, alkosh, so they are worth mentioning.


a mob in pve has at most 18,200 armor and spell resistance. you need to have all of the debuffs active, with an infused Torugs crusher, to bring that down to 5,850, which is how much armor the trial atro has. this is unrealistic in most cases, most tank don't run alkosh in 4 man stuff for example. an infused crusher is simple though, as you can see it subtracts 2107 from teh target and can be up 98%+ of the time with wall or hail, or even stampede now.

my math with a non infused crusher is simple. since the enchant has a 5 second uptime, with a 10 second cooldown, you will get at most a 50% uptime, leading to that 1,622 debuff averaging out to 811 at best, so with infused crusher being 2,107 and being able to be up almost 100% of the time, you get 2,107-811= 1296, which in pve is a 2.6% increase in damage done to the target, at least, will actually prolly be more because of the way the game works.

so to answer your question directly, i do realize that they have finite armor and there is my maths.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

You do realise vet content doesn't have infinite resistances, and you pull numbers out of your head without any proof or maths?

so for spell pen-

Spell Penetration:

target debuffs

Infused Crusher- 2107

Infused Crusher with Torug- 2740

Roar of Alkosh- 3010

Major Breach- 5280

Minor Breach- 1320

self only buffs

lover with no divines-2,752

lover with 7 divines- 4,196

Light Armor Passive- 4884

Spinners set- 3450

Sharpened 2h- 2752

CP's: Variable, depending of sets and debuffs in use.


also the destro 10% gets taken off after all the debuffs on the target just like maces, ie crusher, major and minor breach, alkosh, so it is really not worth mentioning. the absolute most it could be is 1810 pen but most of the time you will have at least Major Breach on the target, which bring it down to 1282. then it just gets worse from there.

armor Penetration:

target debuffs

crusher enchantment - 1,622

Infused Crusher- 2,107

Infused Crusher with Torug- 2,740

Roar of Alkosh- 3,010

Major Breach- 5,280

Minor Breach- 1,320

self only buffs

lover with no divines-2,752

lover with 7 divines- 4,196

Sharpened 2h- 2,752

Sharpened 1h -1,376

twice fanged snake set- 4,300

spriggans set- 3,450

Tzogvin's Warband set - 1,487

Kra'gh monster set - 1,487

Unfathomable Darkness set - 1,487


CP's: Variable, depending of sets and debuffs in use but up to 5280


also the mauls/maces 20/10% gets taken off after all the debuffs on the target, IE crusher, major and minor breach, alkosh, so they are worth mentioning.


a mob in pve has at most 18,200 armor and spell resistance. you need to have all of the debuffs active, with an infused Torugs crusher, to bring that down to 5,850, which is how much armor the trial atro has. this is unrealistic in most cases, most tank don't run alkosh in 4 man stuff for example. an infused crusher is simple though, as you can see it subtracts 2107 from teh target and can be up 98%+ of the time with wall or hail, or even stampede now.

my math with a non infused crusher is simple. since the enchant has a 5 second uptime, with a 10 second cooldown, you will get at most a 50% uptime, leading to that 1,622 debuff averaging out to 811 at best, so with infused crusher being 2,107 and being able to be up almost 100% of the time, you get 2,107-811= 1296, which in pve is a 2.6% increase in damage done to the target, at least, will actually prolly be more because of the way the game works.

so to answer your question directly, i do realize that they have finite armor and there is my maths.

When you saw the last time a Tank run with Alkosh + Torug?

El_Borracho

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

When you saw the last time a Tank run with Alkosh + Torug?

Its not super uncommon. I saw it infrequently in dungeons before Elsweyr. Wasn't that a nightblade tank build?

Lisutaris

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

You do realise vet content doesn't have infinite resistances, and you pull numbers out of your head without any proof or maths?

so for spell pen-

Spell Penetration:

target debuffs

Infused Crusher- 2107

Infused Crusher with Torug- 2740

Roar of Alkosh- 3010

Major Breach- 5280

Minor Breach- 1320

self only buffs

lover with no divines-2,752

lover with 7 divines- 4,196

Light Armor Passive- 4884

Spinners set- 3450

Sharpened 2h- 2752

CP's: Variable, depending of sets and debuffs in use.


also the destro 10% gets taken off after all the debuffs on the target just like maces, ie crusher, major and minor breach, alkosh, so it is really not worth mentioning. the absolute most it could be is 1810 pen but most of the time you will have at least Major Breach on the target, which bring it down to 1282. then it just gets worse from there.

armor Penetration:

target debuffs

crusher enchantment - 1,622

Infused Crusher- 2,107

Infused Crusher with Torug- 2,740

Roar of Alkosh- 3,010

Major Breach- 5,280

Minor Breach- 1,320

self only buffs

lover with no divines-2,752

lover with 7 divines- 4,196

Sharpened 2h- 2,752

Sharpened 1h -1,376

twice fanged snake set- 4,300

spriggans set- 3,450

Tzogvin's Warband set - 1,487

Kra'gh monster set - 1,487

Unfathomable Darkness set - 1,487


CP's: Variable, depending of sets and debuffs in use but up to 5280


also the mauls/maces 20/10% gets taken off after all the debuffs on the target, IE crusher, major and minor breach, alkosh, so they are worth mentioning.


a mob in pve has at most 18,200 armor and spell resistance. you need to have all of the debuffs active, with an infused Torugs crusher, to bring that down to 5,850, which is how much armor the trial atro has. this is unrealistic in most cases, most tank don't run alkosh in 4 man stuff for example. an infused crusher is simple though, as you can see it subtracts 2107 from teh target and can be up 98%+ of the time with wall or hail, or even stampede now.

my math with a non infused crusher is simple. since the enchant has a 5 second uptime, with a 10 second cooldown, you will get at most a 50% uptime, leading to that 1,622 debuff averaging out to 811 at best, so with infused crusher being 2,107 and being able to be up almost 100% of the time, you get 2,107-811= 1296, which in pve is a 2.6% increase in damage done to the target, at least, will actually prolly be more because of the way the game works.

so to answer your question directly, i do realize that they have finite armor and there is my maths.

When you saw the last time a Tank run with Alkosh + Torug?

Just accept that you got "burned" pretty hard to say so.
It's also not about tanks equipping alkosh and torugs. Just that an infused crusher on backbar is useful and a good investment to support your dd.
Alkosh and Torugs may be "outdated" but yolna+alkosh is pretty nice. (with infused 2h backbar for crusher)

OG_Kaveman

Lisutaris wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

When you saw the last time a Tank run with Alkosh + Torug?

Just accept that you got "burned" pretty hard to say so.
It's also not about tanks equipping alkosh and torugs. Just that an infused crusher on backbar is useful and a good investment to support your dd.
Alkosh and Torugs may be "outdated" but yolna+alkosh is pretty nice. (with infused 2h backbar for crusher)

you are right on the money, Lisutaris, i thought i was pretty clear with this-

a mob in pve has at most 18,200 armor and spell resistance. you need to have all of the debuffs active, with an infused Torugs crusher, to bring that down to 5,850, which is how much armor the trial atro has. this is unrealistic in most cases, most tank don't run alkosh in 4 man stuff for example. an infused crusher is simple though, as you can see it subtracts 2107 from teh target and can be up 98%+ of the time with wall or hail, or even stampede now.

Panomania

I've tanked vet Cloudrest with torugs and plague doc. Its not optimal but can be done. I prefer other sets, all of which people have mentioned here.

A couple things:

First ESO is a different beast when it comes to MMO tanking. The most effective tanks do a hell of a lot more than position the mob, hold agro and survive damage taken. Tanks in ESO tend to be support to a high degree, too. Thats why dropping Torugs or Alkosh on a tank is so popular. This isnt as important in most 4 man dungeons, but once you're into trials its pretty much a must have...and if the tank isnt doing it another class who could be healing or damaging needs to. So keep that in mind.

Second, ESO really isnt a game where "meta" or "BiS" is as much of a thing as in other games. The differences between "best" and the next 10 best set choices are usually low (1 to 2%). With tanking, its even more of a coin toss. A LOT depends on the people you group with, how they are set up, what they bring to the table. Thats why a TON of tanks have multiple gear choices and a gear/skill swap addon. I have FIVE separate tanking setups on my warden tank....3 on my DK. I'm still working on my necro tank. So be flexible. This isnt a "one size fits all" role as it is in other games.