Should happy go lucky casuals have an voice on game balance?

JumpmanLane

No

Resoundingly NO! A casual player who hasn’t put in the time to actually learn to play ESO should not run around begging ZOS for nerfs.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

tamorath wrote: »

If you don't play enough to know something, why should you be listened to on the matter?

Casuals will always call for nerfs in the name of "fun", killing the game for themselves, the tryhards and the newbies.
Half the time the forums are full of casuals crying about stuff like
"12 man content should be doable solo because I need to do the quest and shouldn't be required to group with people who might say I am bad"
"I got one shot by *insert very underpowered spammable* in PvP, please nerf"
They want to bring the skill level of the game down to them, rather than them trying to rise to the skill level of the game.

Should they have an opinion on the game? Yes, sure.
Balance? No. You don't have someone unqualified on any topic make critical changes regarding that topic when it effects others.

Excuse me what? I’m a casual, stop lumping all of us together because guess what? I don’t ask for nerds and actually enjoy the game.

StormeReigns

Yes

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Resoundingly NO! A casual player who hasn’t put in the time to actually learn to play ESO should not run around begging ZOS for nerfs.

Those asking for nerfs are more oftentimes than not, are those who false flag their "play style; casual, hardcore, etc" is due to wanting personal gain and punishment. To say one or the other is "begging" for nerfs without supporting the claim what so ever is, simply, foolish.

FlopsyPrince

Yes

I may not have a lot of wisdom on precise balance, but nuking my play just to please someone who is "hard core" is not bright.

Aurie

Yes

notyuu wrote: »

A vast majority of them are not even effected by the balance really, so the real question is, what sort of voice on it could they really have?

So what makes you think that casuals are not affected by balance? It must be a very long time since you were what you consider to be 'casual'.

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Resoundingly NO! A casual player who hasn’t put in the time to actually learn to play ESO should not run around begging ZOS for nerfs.

By that I understand you mean PvP casuals, as very few PvE'ers demand nerfs.

jircris11

Yes

Heatnix90 wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

I am seeing a lot if hate towards casuals. I play 2 hrs a day if I'm lucky, dont pvp any more nor do vet content. Yet I have been with eso since beta, and have been subbed since launch. The egotistical views of the "hardcore" are not something to listen to as they are usually the ones that complain. Most casuals just ENJOY the game. It's something people have forgotten be it a mmo or single player game.

People seem to forget not everyone plays as you do so changes will effect people no mater what it is. People such as my self simply shrug it off and go on our way adapting to the changes. The hardcore or meta users tend to be the ones complaining because they have to rework their builds for maximum efficiency.

What makes you think that people who strive for endgame content don't enjoy the game? There's plenty of people who have fun while getting good at PvP or pushing trial achievements/scores.

Just because people strive for perfection/glory doesn't mean they don't have fun along the way. This whole "well casuals play for FUN" BS is ridiculous because its completely false, everyone has their own definition of fun.

I am talking about the general end game crowed. You know the ones who take it as if they will die irl if they have to change their build ir deal with someone who does not know EVERYTHING about a dungeon. Casuals in the very nature tend to be a crap ton more welcoming and less egotistical. Your post alone has proven my point.

You also TOTALLY ignored my second half.

jircris11

Yes

Lokey0024 wrote: »

They don't understand game mechanics well enough.

I am sorry but I am a casual and I can tell you EVERY mechanic to every trial or dungeon. Being a casual has nothing to do with that knowledge. That comes from educating your self.

Elsonso

Yes

jircris11 wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

They don't understand game mechanics well enough.

I am sorry but I am a casual and I can tell you EVERY mechanic to every trial or dungeon. Being a casual has nothing to do with that knowledge. That comes from educating your self.

I think that, in this thread, the term "casual" is "one who does not understand game mechanics well enough". This is different from other uses of the word, the definition of which probably applies to you.

Jhalin

No

A player that doesn’t do dungeons, trials, arenas, or PvP, should have no influence into how the game changes.

They wouldn’t be affected in any significant way no matter changes occur.

Thorvik_Tyrson

MishMash wrote: »

I voted no. Only because of casual players not putting in the time that hardcore players put in. We have adapted through and found new ways or the as intended ways to mitigate. I use to get my hiney kicked out there in PvP (still do) but with the time and effort I put in, I am doing a bit better. Don't cry for nerfs -- go out and try harder!

So I guess it depends on what the definition of "casual" and "Hardcore" is.

I play on average about 4 hours a day on weekdays and more on the weekends. Is that hardcore or casual? If your only looking at the amount of time spent in game, then I'd say that I was hardcore. Others would say that I am casual as I am not yet CP300 and geared for Vet Trials. I'm still a newer player.

It all depends on what your definition is.

moesmaker

Don’t be silly. No one but the makers of this game should be making decisions on gameplay. It’s their game, if you don’t like it, move on...

Heatnix90

No

jircris11 wrote: »

Heatnix90 wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

I am seeing a lot if hate towards casuals. I play 2 hrs a day if I'm lucky, dont pvp any more nor do vet content. Yet I have been with eso since beta, and have been subbed since launch. The egotistical views of the "hardcore" are not something to listen to as they are usually the ones that complain. Most casuals just ENJOY the game. It's something people have forgotten be it a mmo or single player game.

People seem to forget not everyone plays as you do so changes will effect people no mater what it is. People such as my self simply shrug it off and go on our way adapting to the changes. The hardcore or meta users tend to be the ones complaining because they have to rework their builds for maximum efficiency.

What makes you think that people who strive for endgame content don't enjoy the game? There's plenty of people who have fun while getting good at PvP or pushing trial achievements/scores.

Just because people strive for perfection/glory doesn't mean they don't have fun along the way. This whole "well casuals play for FUN" BS is ridiculous because its completely false, everyone has their own definition of fun.

I am talking about the general end game crowed. You know the ones who take it as if they will die irl if they have to change their build ir deal with someone who does not know EVERYTHING about a dungeon. Casuals in the very nature tend to be a crap ton more welcoming and less egotistical. Your post alone has proven my point.

You also TOTALLY ignored my second half.

Alright, lemme look at that second ha- oh it's just the usual trash talk about "endgame" players complaining like it's the end of the world. News flash buddy, majority of the actual endgame players (you know, the ones who score/title push and not just those who want the skins to pretend like they know about endgame content) don't actually act like it's the end of the world every time there's a meta shift, they simply brainstorm with other like-minded players, adapt, and create the new metas. The ones complaining on the forums/reddit/wherever you find ESO-related stuff are the lower-tier players who simply want to be carried by meta strategies without putting any effort into creating them.

The main reason there was a lot of controversy on the forums this past PTS cycle was because Zenimax took an already diminished support role (healers) and further diminished their legitimate value. People also expressed their concerns because the patch very nearly did away with actual class diversity by pushing a DoT meta and not addressing how overtuned stamina Necromancers remain. And in most cases, the endgame players who voiced their concerns had legitimate points backed up by data/numbers, and weren't just posting "waaah my dps sucks now pls nerf stamcro," like the majority of casuals who come in and ask for nerfs to things because they got blown up by a competent player (i.e. all the morons complaining about Werewolf getting nerfed, despite it being a ridiculously easy playstyle; none of them actually included solid evidence to back up their claims)

Second: big, fat LOL @ "casuals are more welcoming and less egotistical." I've been in many LFG groups where low-tier players have been incredibly toxic to new players simply because they're low CP without even bothering to see if said players were console transfers/people on alt accounts and actually knew and understood mechanics. Meanwhile, anytime I get queued up with actual high-tier endgame players in an LFG group we usually blitz through the content, and at the end of the run we simply say "TYFG" or "Good tanking/DPS/support" and go our separate ways.

In fact, high-tier endgame players are some of the most welcoming people in my experience, who usually go out of their way to provide support for new players or platform transfers via gold/leveling/gear crafting/guild connections to get them on a solid foundation for success. So yeah, another total misconception about "endgame players" that keeps getting thrown around, and frankly, it's annoying because it creates an image in newer players' minds that asking for help from good, knowledgeable players is something that should be shamed.

jainiadral

Yes

Jhalin wrote: »

A player that doesn’t do dungeons, trials, arenas, or PvP, should have no influence into how the game changes.

They wouldn’t be affected in any significant way no matter changes occur.

What got nuked to the ground this patch? The newbie and casual-friendly petsorc. I barely see them in the wilds anymore.

NupidStoob

No

This actually shouldn't be about casuals vs hardcore and more about experience. You have hardcore players that aren't very experienced and you have casual players that are experienced.

jircris11 wrote: »

I am talking about the general end game crowed. You know the ones who take it as if they will die irl if they have to change their build ir deal with someone who does not know EVERYTHING about a dungeon. Casuals in the very nature tend to be a crap ton more welcoming and less egotistical. Your post alone has proven my point.

You also TOTALLY ignored my second half.

I find it amazing that you generalize a part of the playerbase and label them as toxic and don't see the irony in that.

You also seem to have a very broad definition of endgame players. Let me guess if someone is high CP and gets bitchy in a dungeon they are toxic endgame players right? From my experience 99% of the time these people are not good players themselves and just think they are all that because they get okayish numbers on a dummy or cleared some vet non hm trials.
Sounds very fair to group these clowns with actual endgame players.

I am sure that a not so experienced player will meet these kind of people occasionally in dungeons, but you know what you meet even more? People who went into a group activity not being ready for it. There are two types of these people, ignorant ones and the ones that are aware but don't care. The latter type is toxic the former only if they won't let others give them advice. This isn't purely a single player game. You have single player activities and you are free to do whatever you want in them. You have group activities and you are free to do whatever you want in them as long as you are in a group that is fine with it.
However as soon as you go into a group activity with people you do not know it's your obligation to be halfway prepared for it as your performance affects everyone else in the group. Nobody likes to be in a school/work project with someone who doesn't pull their weight especially if it's on purpose. This is by far the most common type of toxicity you meet in this game as you will find such a player pretty much every second random vet dungeon.

Especially "fake" DDs you see all the time. A healer that heals is still doing the basics of their job and so is a tank that holds aggro, however a DD that just light attacks is not actually doing their job. Using skills is part of it, tanks and healers do and so should DDs.

Now if you point this out and offer some advice (no matter how nicely framed) you will in most cases be labeled toxic or elitist by these forums or reddit.

There are of course some people that appreciate some advice, but from experience I can tell that it's a minority. At this point I've easily spend more than 100 hours of my gametime and even more outside over discord helping other players to become better at the game. Be that rotation practice, build advice or even straight up buying/crafting gear for them. I can say the same thing about most other actual endgame players I've met. Alone all the help I received from better players would amount to more than that.

But hey we are all just toxic endgamers.

[Deleted User]

Hello everyone,

With this thread continuing to derail with flaming between two sides, content which is against the Forum Rules, we're going to go ahead and close it down.

Thank you for understanding.