Vet content

Nordic__Knights

Why cant people do vet content these days ? It seems everyone blows right on pass normal content but once doing vet and mobs and boss have mechanic work to do everything falls apart why . Can we get harder normals so as to force players to use mechanics even for normal to get prepared for that correctly

MLGProPlayer

Because the overland content does a terrible job of teaching new players how to play the game. You can blow through the entire overworld story by just light attacking and spamming a single skill.

Nordic__Knights

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Because the base game does a terrible job of teaching new players how to play the game. You can blow through the entire overworld story by just light attacking and spamming a single skill.

That is very true but also at the same time I find it to be harmful to the game that players can't even progressed because they don't have knowledge because nothing forces them to gain that knowledge

Heady

people do not want to learn and just dive straight into the deep end

Nordic__Knights

Heady wrote: »

people do not want to learn and just dive straight into the deep end

No honestly I don't think normal allows for an person to actually have to learn because they could go through it so quick did they never see the mechanics that are the mechanics don't hit you hard enough to matter but once you get into that all those little aspects that you forgot to care about in normal bite you in the ass

MLGProPlayer

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Heady wrote: »

people do not want to learn and just dive straight into the deep end

No honestly I don't think normal allows for an person to actually have to learn because they could go through it so quick did they never see the mechanics that are the mechanics don't hit you hard enough to matter but once you get into that all those little aspects that you forgot to care about in normal bite you in the ass

Normal when everyone in the group is below level 50 is actually a challenge. The problem is most people don't attempt dungeons until they're in the CP levels (at which point normal difficulty becomes a cakewalk), or they always end up with a high level in the group with them.

Nordic__Knights

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Heady wrote: »

people do not want to learn and just dive straight into the deep end

No honestly I don't think normal allows for an person to actually have to learn because they could go through it so quick did they never see the mechanics that are the mechanics don't hit you hard enough to matter but once you get into that all those little aspects that you forgot to care about in normal bite you in the ass

Normal when everyone in the group is below level 50 is actually a challenge. The problem is most people don't attempt dungeons until they're in the CP levels (at which point normal difficulty becomes a cakewalk), or they always end up with a high level in the group with them.

Then would balancing the Q in allowing only below 50 play together and only cp's play together in dungeons be beneficial

AbysmalGhul

Hard content can only prepare you for hard content.

Nordic__Knights

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

Hard content can only prepare you for hard content.

Not true if the same mechanics happened in normal except for the fact that you skipped Them because you go through it so fast that you don't ever see them so normal can prepare you for vet it just seems that normal needs to be increased a little bit to make sure but you learn the mechanics in order to move on to vet because if you can't pass class A how you going to move on to class B

Shabutti

Start early, learn early. Also, it only takes a couple of minutes to google mechanics for tougher content or watch videos on YouTube. I think people just don’t want to do the extra work

Nordic__Knights

Shabutti wrote: »

Start early, learn early. Also, it only takes a couple of minutes to google mechanics for tougher content or watch videos on YouTube. I think people just don’t want to do the extra work

And that's my point I think ESO need to make the game more enjoyable for people that reach vet normal should be increased to force people to learn mechanics as well as how to play their characters
Kind of like how the old players had to go through different levels within the world with bosses and ads becoming harder as you went along not everything staying the same and always being weak as ***

xeha_arwen11

Shabutti wrote: »

Start early, learn early. Also, it only takes a couple of minutes to google mechanics for tougher content or watch videos on YouTube. I think people just don’t want to do the extra work

It's not just that, though. You can read all the mechs several times, but it takes actual practice to do them without difficulty in a vet dlc dungeon.

Betty_Booms

There are both normal and vet dungeons that vary in difficulty.

One of the issues is the disparity in new players vs full cp. Dont expect random dungeons to be learning grounds.

I got into a vet scalecaller random vet the other day. The tank was inexperience and I was happy to stick around for the learning curve (I was the healer). More tanks gaining experience the better imo.

One of the dps left who wasnt so patient and we ended up getting a guy that didnt speak english and dint know mechanics.

Naturally I left after that.

However i would look at learning with guild members etc. Please dont queue up for vets if you have non idea wxpecting randoms to carry...

Nordic__Knights

Betty_Booms wrote: »

There are both normal and vet dungeons that vary in difficulty.

One of the issues is the disparity in new players vs full cp. Dont expect random dungeons to be learning grounds.

I got into a vet scalecaller random vet the other day. The tank was inexperience and I was happy to stick around for the learning curve (I was the healer). More tanks gaining experience the better imo.

One of the dps left who wasnt so patient and we ended up getting a guy that didnt speak english and dint know mechanics.

Naturally I left after that.

However i would look at learning with guild members etc. Please dont queue up for vets if you have non idea wxpecting randoms to carry...

Hello I'm sorry I'm no Noob I have 1318 CP Platinum with over 85% of all game completion 16 time at emperor have beat hard mode for every dungeon there is

Ash_In_My_Sujamma

One Tamriel did 2 things to the game. One great thing and one terrible.
The great one was that it put the players from all 3 alliance on the same world. No more empty maps for Silver and Gold.
The terrible thing was that it scaled all zones to the level of the players. That destroyed the learning curve of the game and took away the feeling of anticipation and progress when completing overland content.
So the result is that new players just don't learn how this game works and old players get absolutely bored in overland because with each new zone they have no goal to reach and they face no real challenge.
I am more than 1300 cp. Gaining xp and completing overland content has lost any meaning for me since Morrowind, maybe earlier.

bmnoble

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Heady wrote: »

people do not want to learn and just dive straight into the deep end

No honestly I don't think normal allows for an person to actually have to learn because they could go through it so quick did they never see the mechanics that are the mechanics don't hit you hard enough to matter but once you get into that all those little aspects that you forgot to care about in normal bite you in the ass

Normal when everyone in the group is below level 50 is actually a challenge. The problem is most people don't attempt dungeons until they're in the CP levels (at which point normal difficulty becomes a cakewalk), or they always end up with a high level in the group with them.

Then would balancing the Q in allowing only below 50 play together and only cp's play together in dungeons be beneficial

Problem with that is most players level as a DPS, get the skills they need for tanking/healing only switching to those roles once they hit CP160.

A lot of tanks and healers often abandon groups even in normal difficulty, quite simply because they get DPS who do so little damage most often because they have either no rotation/knowledge of the concept, no sustain or just can't keep themselves alive to actually do damage.

That causes even a normal dungeon to become extremely unlikely to be finished before either the tank/healer leave before wasting an hour or more of their time on a single normal dungeon.

I have been a nice guy in the past on my tank and put up with these groups but the longer I play the more jaded I get and have no issue leaving groups without saying a word in chat these days, I don't want to play teacher every-time I want to run a dungeon.

Grianasteri

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Why cant people do vet content these days ? It seems everyone blows right on pass normal content but once doing vet and mobs and boss have mechanic work to do everything falls apart why . Can we get harder normals so as to force players to use mechanics even for normal to get prepared for that correctly

Ive not noticed this at all. In fact the opposite, I have noticed vet content become easier with power creep, including with pugs.

Nordic__Knights

Grianasteri wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Why cant people do vet content these days ? It seems everyone blows right on pass normal content but once doing vet and mobs and boss have mechanic work to do everything falls apart why . Can we get harder normals so as to force players to use mechanics even for normal to get prepared for that correctly

Ive not noticed this at all. In fact the opposite, I have noticed vet content become easier with power creep, including with pugs.

Then I guess you're not on PlayStation 4 trying to run the new dungeons because since release I have yet to find a group that could beat vet LOM but yet that same groups can run normal 5 6 7 8 20 times a day and get right on past it

Artemiisia

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Because the overland content does a terrible job of teaching new players how to play the game. You can blow through the entire overworld story by just light attacking and spamming a single skill.

I remember when this game came out, and people had so much trouble killing doshia boss close to davons watch

people really had to learn, about skills and such

now you can just but some aoes almost on and destroy everything overland

FrancisCrawford

I don't think "mechanics" is the big difference, at least not in the way the term is commonly used (e.g. that high DPS relative to the boss' total health let you bypass mechanics).

The weakest thing about my play, for example, is the trouble I have not dying. More precisely, it's not dying while also being reasonably effective at other things. Yes, if I have my back to the fight, running away and spamming heals, I'll survive, but that's not how I play more than a few seconds at a time, and even if it's for a few seconds (except in some very limited cases) things probably aren't going well.

In a normal mode dungeon I try to get out of AoE, but if I don't quite make it, no big problem. In a vet dungeon, if I'm a second or two late -- due to a bad decision or a mishit of a key or slow recognition -- I'm dead and waiting for a rez. As I get better at avoiding each of those reasons for death, I'll be a better player overall. And accomplishing that will, I think, be much more important than (for example) improving my weaving, which I judge to be quite bad based on my low rate of light attacks per second of fight.

kylewwefan

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Why cant people do vet content these days ? It seems everyone blows right on pass normal content but once doing vet and mobs and boss have mechanic work to do everything falls apart why . Can we get harder normals so as to force players to use mechanics even for normal to get prepared for that correctly

On the forums here, everyone hits for a bajillion DPS and performs every mechanic flawlessly every time.

But in game, I find it quite different.

DPS is more like 15k~20k on average.

Mechanics you can’t burn through are going to be a Major freaking problem.


If it’s any consolation, I just beat Vet FrostVault last weekend. Six months after it came out. And I had to beg a bunch of guildies to go with me. It took near 2 hours. With players that knew what they were doing.

I also haven’t beat the new dungeons on Vet. I’ve been in about 6 or 10 failed pugs so far. I strongly suspect it’s gonna take awhile to get a group together to do it.

GreenhaloX

All people have to do is watch the video guides on the dungeons. There are vet hm guides for every dungeons and trials on youtube. Hats off to the many ESO gurus have taken their time to put up such good video guides. Look at it. Some guides are step-by-step on what mech to watch for and to mitigate it. I have completed practically all the pre-scalecaller patch vet DLC dungeons and trials on hm as a DD by taking the time to look at those videos. You may not get it the first run or two, but you have familiarized yourself with the vet HM mechs by taking the time to watch those guides before you jump into the dungeon or trial. If you get stumped during the run, you can also check back to the video guide. I do.

It is bad when you go into one of those vet dungeons or trials, and there's seemingly always 1 or 2 don't know mech, and the group wipes even at the first boss. Then, people leaves left and right. Sure, you'll have stick and move and avoid those stupid reds, but you will know somewhat when to interrupt to save your immobilized teammate, or save yourself from incoming boss's attacks. It's not that hard. Watch those video guides and become familiar with the mechs before you dive in the first time. You're doing a disservice to your teammate by queuing in the vet dungeon or trial blindly.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Why bother doing them on vet?
Purple loot?
Easily upgradable from the normal blue one
Monster set?
For base game one yes but the dlc one arent stronger to compansate for the time you put in
Cosmetic reward?
They arent attractive engouht to do a hard mode, a speed run and a no death. Yes in the newer one you get them from doing vet only but i can use a scamp without a back pack
Title? Useless

You see the time/difficulty vs reward ratio isnt good egnough

I sugest adding more to the reward(better option) or lower the difficlty (dlc only) so they actually feel rewarding
Perfected gear arent perfect(yes i know!) But they do make vet raid reward actually make vet raiding feel more rewarding. Should they apply it to vet dungeon and previous raid?maybe

They could also add an expert mode wich would be the same difficulty as current vet dlc hard mode and vet content would be scaled to base game vet so you have a middle found between super easy and hard

Anyway something need to happen

MartiniDaniels

Idk, in my days of pugging, it's like a 10% chance to meet complete idiots, in majority of cases group is ok enough to complete vdlc dungeon if everyone is working as a team. Yeah, maybe couple of kicks/replacements are required in process, but that's ok.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Heady wrote: »

people do not want to learn and just dive straight into the deep end

This.

Been in several pug groups were a person gets kicked because they just don't want to listen.

irstarkey57

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Because the base game does a terrible job of teaching new players how to play the game. You can blow through the entire overworld story by just light attacking and spamming a single skill.

That is very true but also at the same time I find it to be harmful to the game that players can't even progressed because they don't have knowledge because nothing forces them to gain that knowledge

Pretty sure that was exactly his point....

Odovacar

If its a harder DLC dungeon and you have your doubts early ...ask if everyone knows the mechanics. Explain if need be. Otherwise don't PuG vet content. Everyone here knows you have a good chance to be put in with sub par players...it shouldn't be a surprise.

ghastley

It's not just the game itself. As has been pointed out above, the normal dungeons let a more experienced player gather loot that can be upgraded, so a fully random PUG will have players who are only there for the loot, and blasting the mobs out of the way before the others can learn anything from them. Especially if they speed-run, and the others don't even see it being done.

Perhaps the design could make it less attractive for players to overpower the normal dungeons, but I'm not sure how.

Master_Fluff

Most players of ESO do not want the game to be like their work, they want it to be entertaining. A way to relax and escape reality. Veteran dungeons/arenas/trials makes the game too much like work, which is why most players don't want to learn boss mechanics. That's how I see it, anyway.

D0PAMINE

This was my first MMO. I had to learn mechanics from friends I had made who were patient and had run the content numerous times. I've completed stuff where I still don't quite know all the mechs fully. Videos and guides are great, but I usually have questions and it helps when someone I've run with, who knows my playstyle and setup can guide me through what I should be doing to prevent a wipe. I've tanked all vet dlc except MHK and the 2 new ones. Even vFrostvault, while buggy af, was less stressful because my group is designed to operate that way.

El_Borracho

Depends on the vet content. Vet COA1? Easy. Vet SCP? Not so much. Vet AA? Easy. Vet MOL? Nope. As with the rest of the group content in this game, the difficulty is progressive. If you run everything enough, you will hopefully get better and handle harder content easier.

As far as DPS is concerned, some players think parsing is the only way to improve. DPS is important, but not as important as (1) mechanics, and (2) knowing how to run as a group. If you run enough PUGs, you have seen the guy who claims to hit 60K stand in the wrong place and die. Or go lone wolf and die because the healer can't heal him.

Vet content is meant to test more than DPS. Once players figure that out, they get better.