Animation cancel is cause PvP lag since 2014

probabkyravi

Listen.

Ani-cancel is fine its just that ZoS rushed the development of it and caused insane in lag in Cyrodiil from it.

Then mash up the game to fix Cyrodiil lag when it when it was just a massive Wroebel error that needs looking into.

probabkyravi

Man my was last thread was about LA spam causing lag. Dizzy macro slicing also causes extreme lag.

probabkyravi

Stop the hate and be productive in comments ?

Darkenarlol

1) remove tinfoil hat

2) l2p

StormeReigns

This thread is as useful as a torn colostomy bag.

probabkyravi

1) Zenimax try target what causes lag in PvP. I trying to be constructive.

2) I play nearly 700 days in 5 years in Cyrodiil, I kinda know how to play.

3) Trolls gonna hate on progressives.

idk

Darkenarlol wrote: »

1) remove tinfoil hat

2) l2p

I laughed.

probabkyravi

Go duel a dude exploiting 2 hand ani-cancel then come diss.

I guess yall scared for fix, by all the hate for thread.

probabkyravi

Mind the owls by the way, many of you are draw them to yourself.

probabkyravi

Animation cancel causes lag, its a fact, get over it.

It needs a rethink by devs, no hurry, no diss, no beef.

Chill and play and be nice.

Siohwenoeht

probabkyravi wrote: »

Animation cancel causes lag, its a fact, get over it.

It needs a rethink by devs, no hurry, no diss, no beef.

Chill and play and be nice.

If it's a fact, link your evidence or dev comment stating such. I'd love to read it. Otherwise, it's hyperbole.

Expert

What lags the servers is actually a layer of calculations that didn't exist in 2014. With content being added and more balance changes addressed, more calculations slowly trickled into their way into server memory usage.

Say this. In Non-CP it doesn't lag as bad because there's isn't any mathematical calculations address ur flat % mitigation % dmg increase Penetration, etc.

In Vivec, there's CP to be taken into account so all your damage gets calculated and requires servers to perform at a higher usage cost.

Not only is it this, you may recognize a huge impact when playing in no CP with the same amount of players than VIVEC. Everything is mathematically calculated. Which sets the server back with such a massive load trying to render this information in.

Another contributor of the lag is dots, and excessive HoTs. Anything that last over a long period of time generally uses more memory to register every 2 seconds that you are either taking a dot or hot. I think this is why ZOS wanted to crackdown on HOTs duration span so it's shorter so that it'll improve server performance and they compensated that in exchanging more heals.

The ironic part when having a vision to reduce server lag, you do not want to buff dots and make it accessible to everyone. It goes back to step A, where HOTs duration was too long and causing server lag.

You know the AOE abilities that stack healing, necrotic orb and healing springs? Imagine all the calculations registering to each person per cast stacking up multiple times, and also include the CP mathematics on top of it. This was taking a huge toll on the servers, and that is one of the reasons why ZOS nerfed it so you can only have 1 spell up at a time and no longer stacks.

So at the end of the day, when you simply think animation cancel is the root cause for lag, if you simply alt+f4 a program from your computer does your computer continue to lag? When you alt+f4 an animation on the server, does the server lag?

From what I've heard, animations are client sided. Client side as in the memory usage for executing the animation happens on your client (computer) and not of the server. It's all the reason why people think they "macro" because you can only abuse things that are handled through your client and not of the server.

When the massive epidemic of scripts and macros ruined cyrodil back many years ago, ZOS took action and made most skills go from client side to server side. So as long as these skills are on the server side, you can not ultimate spam 20-30 meteors with infinite resources.

So to fall back on as to why Cyrodil lag, it's because all of the things above has contributed to more memory usage of their "mega server". Animations are handled directly through your client, and is not the root cause for lag.

What's important to know is assuming things without real evidence or knowledge supporting your claim shows you do not know what you're talking about. Cheers

jcm2606

Over half the comments in this thread are from the OP and the OP alone, jesus.

Casterial

I think OP got wrecked by a good player? /thread

daemonios

Animation cancelling increases the number of actions from 1 per second to a whopping 2 per second!! No amount of macroing is going to give you more than that. That's not the reason for the lag. Set and skill procs, or ticks from over-time abilities, are many times more numerous than a light attack -> skill or block or bash or bar swap combo.

daemonios

probabkyravi wrote: »

Listen.

Ani-cancel is fine its just that ZoS rushed the development of it and caused insane in lag in Cyrodiil from it.

Then mash up the game to fix Cyrodiil lag when it when it was just a massive Wroebel error that needs looking into.

Explain how Cyrodiil performance went down the drain after the infamous "lighting patch" circa July 2014, when no changes were made to animation cancelling. Since then they've removed critters from Cyrodiil, reduced the number of campaigns and slashed the pop limits for each campaign. Performance is still bad, and on a worsening trend. Does that honestly add up to you?

Anecdotally, during the last PvP event I spent a lot of time in Cyrodiil to get PvP skills for new characters and the performance was pretty reasonable. This was noted by others. I suspect ZOS threw additional resources at the campaigns for the duration of the event, then took them away. When I made two necros after Elsweyr launched and went to get those skills, Cyrodiil was a bunch of loading screens and lag.

Ermiq

As usual, some clarification is needed here. Animation cancelling doesn't let you to throw 3-4 abilities in one second, you can't do this because there's a GCD (Global Cooldown).

The GCD in ESO is ~0.9 sec and it applied to all abilities, when you activate an ability the game starts to countdown the GCD and doesn't register another abilities you're trying to activate before the GCD is over.
GCD is not mutual to all abilities though. Block, bash and roll-dodge are not affected by the abilities' GCD, so even if you have activated an ability just a moment ago you're still able to use block, bash, roll-dodge, but abilities are still unable to register unless their GCD is over.

What about light attacks? Light attacks are working as abilities but they don't trigger the abilities' GCD. You can't cast more than 1 light attack within ~0.9 sec though, because there's a cooldown for light attacks as well, but it's separate from the GCD used for abilities. Hence you can cast an ability in between light attacks and a light attack between abilities as well.

So, what is the animation cancelling? There're two of them.

1. Light attack weaving. The thing is, you can cancel light attack animation by pressing an ability button right after the light attack. Since abilities and light attacks have their own separate GCDs, you can cast an ability this way, at it will cancel the light attack animation immediately but the strike/bolt of the light attack will be registered anyway. So, LA weaving is basically this: LA - ability- 0.9 sec GCD -LA - ability - 0.9 sec GCD...

2. Other animation cancelling.
It's basically canceling of the animation by using either block or bar swap. The thing here is, some abilities have animations with a duration a bit longer than GCD, say 1.2 sec, and you usually can't cast next ability before the animation of the previous ability is over, even if GCD is over already. And in this case block/bar swap animcanceling helps to end the previous ability animation faster, so you can cast next ability right after the GCD is over. Keep in mind that you still can't cast an ability before the GCD of the previous ability is over, you can just skip its animation only.

Why do we see those 3-4 ability effects flying to us from the same player in one second? It's because there was a lag, and your client didn't get those data packages at time, and then when the connection got stable again, your client have got those missed packages all together.

That's it.

Now to the topic.
Yeah, I agree. I believe the LA weaving is one of the reasons why we have a laggy combat, and by 'laggy' I mean real lags (ping spikes, server-client package exchange delays) and not framerate drops. There's a common thing in MMORPG communities when people say 'lag' when they actually mean 'frame rate drop', it leads to a lot of misconceptions.
With LA weaving we have 2 signals from a client to the server sent simultaneously (player casts a light attack and then skips its animation by casting an ability right away). It produces pretty much more load on the server than if we had abilities and LAs sharing the same GCD so it would have been just an LA or just an ability during the mutual GCD.
That's why 'old-school' MMORPGs had cooldowns and cast times by the way. Internet hasn't been fast back then and developers had to invent such systems to provide decent massive multiplayer experience and not overload Internet channels at the same time (on client side and on server side as well).
However, I have an other theory though. ESO servers might have been downgraded once or twice since the release. And don't forget that a lot of stuff has been added to the game during its lifetime, a lot of things have been reworked and changed which also might be the reason of downgraded server performance if the changes were not optimized well.

d3adpain

nah its the combat that cause lag we need to remove combat then lmao

Mr_Walker

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

You realize that macros in PVP would more likely be a disadvantage to the user right? PVP combat in ESO is far more reactive than in other MMOs... I highly doubt even a macro setup for just LA+skill is very useful at all.

LOL. Yeah, nah.

Skoomah

Isn't the lag a multi-factor thing?

1. Because of cheat programs, ZOS brought more calculations to server side vs client side. The game was originally designed for the user to carry most of the load.

2. ZOS is bad at managing server capacity. The reason why the game’s performance goes down drastically each patch is because the servers are set up for X demand but then Y demand shows up. Once the new players who don’t like the game enough leave and existing players leave from dissatisfaction, then the server can once again handle X capacity. ZOS just doesn’t want to pay the server costs.

3. ESO actually requires a stronger and stronger computer each patch. The graphics get nicer. The animations get nicer. More calculations from CP and other upgrades requires a stronger rig. XBox and PlayStation players can’t upgrade their rigs. Most PCs aren’t upgraded fast enough to keep up with the pace of changing requirements.

4. The underlying programming code for the game is not well known by the existing team because many of the original team that made the game are gone now. That’s why so many bugs linger for so long before they get addressed.

5. Resources at ZOS are limited. Shareholders want their money NOW. New content sells NOW. Bug fixes do not. But bug fixes and performance upgrades will realize long term stable growth and income. Short term gains beats long term investing.

xxthir13enxx

probabkyravi wrote: »

Go duel a dude exploiting 2 hand ani-cancel then come diss.

I guess yall scared for fix, by all the hate for thread.

Heh...the original Dev Team could not come up with a fix for AC
To fix it they would have to do a complete rewrite of the original code....ain’t gunna happen...if they did...it’d be called ESO2 available for purchase 2024!!!

BattleAxe

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Aww come one. You guys try to pull any excuse to blame ani cancel and get rid of the only skillful mechanic left in this game. Shame one you.
Just learn how to ani cancel. Its not that hard.

I'd be fine with getting rid of AC, but they'd need to find a different way to increase the combat skill ceiling (maybe skill combos or something).

For once I agree with you mlg remove AC and institute skill synergy as in cast skill A Followed by skill B causes effect C. Prime example how how cool this could look and be on a stam dk use uppercut into searing strike the full animation from one going into the other is visually pleasing knock them up and slam them down

khajiitNPC

lol. You know there’s a GC right? What you’re experiencing is lag, which has little to do with AC and more to do with how the game is coded and server performance. Know what you’re talking about before posting.

chris211

I lost actual brain cells reading this post

[Deleted User]

Hello there,

With this thread becoming mostly bumping, flaming and baiting we're going to go ahead and close it down. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful with the Forum Rules in mind to prevent thread derailment.

Thank you for understanding.