curse eater PSA

Wing

*pick it up*

thus ends your public service announcement.

(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) When you heal yourself or an ally with a direct heal ability, remove up to 3 negative effects from them. If a negative effect was removed this way, your target restores 600 Magicka. This effect can occur every 8 seconds.

seriously even if your a stamina damage dealer, the fact that its magicka regen and not something like spell crit or spell damage means even med users can (and should) make use of it. it was nice and a niche use in the previous patches but now its required reading for any kind of solo / small man play.

every class can benefit from more magicka regen, even as stated if your stamina, and being able to have purge rocking in the background as you fight is amazing.

so yes, do yourself a favor, test it out, even if your stamina.

Urusovite

Smh...

That is such a stupid suggestion. This will not help at all with dots that can be easily reapplied. Not to mention how hard this would hit a stamina users stats. What world do you live in? Clearly one where thumbs do not exist.

JuSt SlOt PuRgE aNd UsE CuRsE EaTeR


How about no more autopilot damage for thumbless zerglings to compete? Raise the ceiling way back where it was so we can once more wipe the floor with players like you.

Wing

Urusovite wrote: »

Smh...

That is such a stupid suggestion. This will not help at all with dots that can be easily reapplied. Not to mention how hard this would hit a stamina users stats. What world do you live in? Clearly one where thumbs do not exist.

JuSt SlOt PuRgE aNd UsE CuRsE EaTeR


How about no more autopilot damage for thumbless zerglings to compete? Raise the ceiling way back where it was so we can once more wipe the floor with players like you.

I am seeing you simultaneously complain about dots and also insult the suggestion of slotting sets or abilities that do something about it. . .

. . .did you ever consider the two might be related?

heres El Lobo recking people on his medium stam DK, rocking curse eater.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkttyxO4aAU


but I guess he is a "thumbless Zergling you would wipe the floor with", my bad.

"S."
"M."
"H."

Derra

Wing wrote: »

Urusovite wrote: »

Smh...

That is such a stupid suggestion. This will not help at all with dots that can be easily reapplied. Not to mention how hard this would hit a stamina users stats. What world do you live in? Clearly one where thumbs do not exist.

JuSt SlOt PuRgE aNd UsE CuRsE EaTeR


How about no more autopilot damage for thumbless zerglings to compete? Raise the ceiling way back where it was so we can once more wipe the floor with players like you.

I am seeing you simultaneously complain about dots and also insult the suggestion of slotting sets or abilities that do something about it. . .

. . .did you ever consider the two might be related?

heres El Lobo recking people on his medium stam DK, rocking curse eater.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkttyxO4aAU


but I guess he is a "thumbless Zergling you would wipe the floor with", my bad.

"S."
"M."
"H."

Depends heavily if your class makes good use of magica or if it doesn´t.
Then also curseeater can be quite potent 1v1 but diminishes in effectiveness the more people you fight.

Not saying it´s not a good set. Just that it´s not the holy grail.

MajBludd

Try it, OP, if you haven't yet. I've asked for a stam version of wyrd or even curse eater but I got salt responses.

Kadoin

It's a great set on stam sorc, helps me sustain indefinitely.

Oops...I mean, no it does not! I was just kidding ZOS!

No_Division

just slot speed and meridas. You will "tank" me later lol :

Nerhesi

Urusovite wrote: »

How about no more autopilot damage for thumbless zerglings to compete? Raise the ceiling way back where it was so we can once more wipe the floor with players like you.

So bad.

How about no boring-as-hell muscle memory meta that is not strategic? How about it becomes impossible to effectively 1v3+?

Also interesting in that you think the cancelling/cc-into-burst boring as crap Meta that has 80% common abilities is somehow “skill”. It’s like Dance Dance Revolution with your fingers... very little reaction or strategy.

What a joke.

No_Division

Nerhesi wrote: »

Urusovite wrote: »

How about no more autopilot damage for thumbless zerglings to compete? Raise the ceiling way back where it was so we can once more wipe the floor with players like you.

So bad.

How about no boring-as-hell muscle memory meta that is not strategic? How about it becomes impossible to effectively 1v3+?

Also interesting in that you think the cancelling/cc-into-burst boring as crap Meta that has 80% common abilities is somehow “skill”. It’s like Dance Dance Revolution with your fingers... very little reaction or strategy.

What a joke.

the game is a skill-less casino now. the sooner we accept it, the sooner a better alternative will come.

ItsNotLiving

But does it proc off of healing ward?

fred4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1yo2raTwPs

chrightt

fred4 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1yo2raTwPs

You know that doesn’t prove anything right? Stay Sorcs have dark deal allowing them to swap magicka to stamina unlike other stam classes. Yes, curse eater might be nice for some situations but if you meet an opponent equally skilled, equally geared instead of some low CP Zerg you’re going to lose. As he said himself it isn’t good for dueling, meaning it’s bad for when you actually meet someone legit instead of scrub zergs. I do agree it is a potential tech against some builds right now but what if you run into something like a stamDK or Stam Warden? You know those popular meta stam classes that can burst and tank your attacks (one set of which is no longer buffing your stam based moves). I guess it depends on who you want to fight more: loads of scrubs or just one or two legit players.

brandonv516

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

But does it proc off of healing ward?

Hmm haven't tried yet. Curious.

SneaK

I have cheesier cheese than this

JTET24

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

But does it proc off of healing ward?

Yes it does

Wing

chrightt wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1yo2raTwPs

You know that doesn’t prove anything right? Stay Sorcs have dark deal allowing them to swap magicka to stamina unlike other stam classes. Yes, curse eater might be nice for some situations but if you meet an opponent equally skilled, equally geared instead of some low CP Zerg you’re going to lose. As he said himself it isn’t good for dueling, meaning it’s bad for when you actually meet someone legit instead of scrub zergs. I do agree it is a potential tech against some builds right now but what if you run into something like a stamDK or Stam Warden? You know those popular meta stam classes that can burst and tank your attacks (one set of which is no longer buffing your stam based moves). I guess it depends on who you want to fight more: loads of scrubs or just one or two legit players.

a lot of skills this patch got changed to scale with max resource without converting to magicka / stamina. there are plenty of skills (and heals) the scale of max stat but cost magicka.

for instance my DK runs igneous, cauterize, and hardened armor (soul splitting trap also costs magicka if that's your jam) this gives me higher uptime on shields, major mending, and a heal that will target others while being stamina based after the vigor change (in BG's ill spam it a bit to heal allies if required) and igneous gives me stam thanks to helping hands.

stam sorc has streak, dark deal, etc. (that an amazing stun, mobility, and health and stam dependent on your magicka regen)


if you figure every 8 seconds you ignore a poison injection, blood craze, and soul splitting trap how much stamina do you save not trying to do something like spam vigor through that ?

what about entropy, soul trap again, flame reach, etc. ?

how much pressure and fighting do you keep doing not trying to run away at the first sign of dots and try and wait them out ?

things that are otherwise melting medium builds right now you get to shrug it off, keep up the pressure, and get the kill.


your post reads so angry, like someone that is generally upset that people are both using and finding success with the set.

brandonv516 wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

But does it proc off of healing ward?

Hmm haven't tried yet. Curious.

a lot of stuff does now, I think they changed what some heals are considered with the pass, from what I use:
-cauterize procs it
-rally heal procs it
-blood craze heal ticks proc it
-vigor ticks proc it (at least the self heal only morph)

chrightt

Wing wrote: »

a lot of skills this patch got changed to scale with max resource without converting to magicka / stamina. there are plenty of skills (and heals) the scale of max stat but cost magicka.

for instance my DK runs igneous, cauterize, and hardened armor (soul splitting trap also costs magicka if that's your jam) this gives me higher uptime on shields, major mending, and a heal that will target others while being stamina based after the vigor change (in BG's ill spam it a bit to heal allies if required) and igneous gives me stam thanks to helping hands.

stam sorc has streak, dark deal, etc. (that an amazing stun, mobility, and health and stam dependent on your magicka regen)

if you figure every 8 seconds you ignore a poison injection, blood craze, and soul splitting trap how much stamina do you save not trying to do something like spam vigor through that ?

what about entropy, soul trap again, flame reach, etc. ?

You're missing the point here. I'm not saying curse eater is completely unviable, I'm saying that a lot of classes have better options. As I did point out, sorcs with magicka is just fine cause of dark deal. DKs can be heavy on magicka too which works. What I'm saying is it DEPENDS on what you're doing with your build. If you're fighting 1vX, sure curse eater can serve you just great with it removing all the pesky DoTs people lead with these days. However, if you're fighting just a skilled opponent for example they might just *** on you with a stam combo running amok these days: dizzy swings => execute and you'd be heading towards kingdom come. I merely pointed out this fact and the fact that noOneElse himself explicitly stated it isn't a good dueling build. DoTs/debuffs don't matter when you're getting combo'd to death within 2 seconds. That is all I'm saying. As for why I might've sounded angry, it is simply because the internet, as usual, likes to quote "authorities" and treat it as a fact without weighing in actual facts (or perhaps their limited testing and overall calculations leads them towards a happy conclusion ahead of time). People tend to take content creator's words almost as gospel these days. Logically, one should realize that not all good players make content and not all content creators are good. However, that is another topic we can ignore for now.

Allow me to further explain what I mean by my post if you're actually reading the whole thing. Generally, from my experience as a stam class, I don't need that extra magicka (even on my stamDK) and I don't have slots in my playstyle to fit soul trap on either. Curse eater at this point works as kind of a "sustain set" with the 5th piece bonus giving benefits similar to mag regen + health regen/heal (in the form of DoT damage not taken). The only catch is IF no significant negative effects are used, the set is useless. And let us be honest here, the tradeoff swapping to mag gen from say weapon damage is definitely noticeable whichever stam class you're playing. This is basically why I'm saying it DEPENDS heavily on what you want to do. If you've read what I ACTUALLY SAID I said it is a good tech option. Would I use it? Probably not unless I want to pick up my stamsorc again. Why is this the case? I don't care much for 1vXing scrubs nor do I care about zergs. I mostly look forward to 1v1ing players that are good at playing. In BGs when I die to stam classes for example usually happens in a short duration where I can't really react to a huge amount of bursts. For example: warden's classic fissure+Dswings+execute while running in with permafrost, not something like entropy/soultrap DoT for the most part. The other thing to consider is with so many templars running around, not using purify would be such a waste. What if you only have 3 debuffs? curse eater can remove 3 debuffs sure, but then you don't get any value out of purify. If you use purify while having 3 or less debuffs now your curse eater does not proc for the mag gen and the supposed "HP return" due to removed DoTs. Also, let us be perfectly honest here, you won't be proccing curse eater once every 8s. While it is optimal, it will not happen because it has to be a direct heal. Depending on how you want to calculate this you can time for yourself how often you actually are on point with proccing the effect (assuming you do have a debuff on you). I do this for all my set calculations working off on CD time because I'm not fighting PVE content where I can be sure to cast the skill on the 8th to 9th second so I would probably work curse eater on an average of 10s~ give or take 1s. Finally, curse eater does not discriminate. The moment you heal your debuff is removed. This means that if you have 1 debuff and you happen to heal yourself while the enemy is about to apply a 2nd and 3rd DOT your curse eater will miss out on those and it'll have to wait 8-9 more seconds until your next heal/removal. Keep in mind that this leaves the DoT with 1-2s left, not granting the full value of said mitigation. My overall conclusion is if you're just a big fan of cyrodiil 1vX then sure this set can serve you some purpose on stam classes, but otherwise the overall expected value of this said set is not as great as it might be on paper.

P.S. if anyone is into economics curse eater is also a set that makes the enemy's DoT more valuable. Allow me to explain this in simple terms. Let us assume a long enough time period that DoTs will run their full course. Pretend a fight lasts 1 minute lets say. Your enemy casts entropy on you which ticks for 12 seconds. He then casts soul trap which ticks for 10 seconds. Assuming these two skills both deal 20k damage over the course of their duration, any subsequent cast of either DoT only serves to refresh the timer since you cannot stack multiple entropy or soul trap on the same target. Now, the enemy is stuck back to using other skills that are definitely less valuable than a DoT that runs the full duration to deal maximum damage. For example, force shock/elemental with a similar stat will deal around 6.5k damage. Now a normal set would require the enemy to do: entropy/soul trap => spammable. However, when you're using curse eater the debuff is removed. This means that the enemy can once again use an overall more damage skill (entropy and soul trap) instead of the spammable in the rotation. It means that the cast which you would be using to use force shock with an overall 6.5k damage is now replaced to refresh entropy/soul trap that was removed, leading to a 13.5k more "worth" of the said DoT cast. Couple this with the fact that people don't usually wait full duration to remember to refresh DoTs (I would rather say they spam DoTs more often than necessarily sometimes but let us assume a guy refreshes around the 8-9s mark). Even if they happen to miss the fact that they can immediately use DoT again after not realizing curse eater removed the DoT, it is more likely than not that a player would gain more value because they're casting a DoT that would otherwise have overlapped with the original DoT. I hope this doesn't sound too confusing to anyone, but this is a huge ass wall of text and analysis so whatever set you're actually running, best of luck.

Wing

chrightt wrote: »

-F'n SNIP!-

ill be honest I skimmed, that was classic TL/DR

but if a counter point is "just eat the damage because they can reapply" is like saying "don't block a spamable because they can just use it again"

combat in ESO is not minutes, its seconds, 1-5 depending on rotation. after that initial 1-5 seconds someone has the pressure and advantage if not already clear victor (IE the target is just dead).

while someone is applying dots, the other player is doing something, while someone is healing, the other player is doing something.

assuming similar action economy, Curse Eater gives advantage quite heavily

Player 1 (dot spam) - Player 2 (has curse eater)

P1 = applies entropy
P2 = applies blood crazy

P1 = applies soul trap
P2 = applies venomous claw

P1 = applies destructive reach
P2 = Vigor (clears all previous player 1 actions, begins healing the damage they did do)

*at this point player 1 has just lost initiative and pressure*

P1 = (assuming they actually catch on that the dots have been removed) reapplies entropy
P2 = Dizzying Swing

P1 = reapplies soul trap
P2 = Take flight

P1 = dead
P2 = walks away

at some point with player 1 they lose the pressure and initiative in the fight, sure their dots might deal 100 more damage a tick, but that does not matter when they cannot get them to stick. player 2 does not have to heal or reapply dots and can continue into spammables, ults, and executes, while player 1 is trying to reset the fight, heal, or run at this point.

if player 1 had started to turtle and heal up player 2 still has full pressure, they are not doing nothing, they are attacking with nothing forcing them to do otherwise, once again, player 1 might have more theoretical damage, but player 2 has more actionable damage thanks to just negating player 1 actions. and if they do manage to heal up and reset curse eater is back off cooldown, player 2 holds advantage through this fight.

also dots are full mediums only real weakness, you *probably* are reducing aoe damage, and can dodge most other abilities, being able to rock a set the counters your otherwise only real counter can work rather well especially when its FotM.

once again, if you don't like it, think its dumb, don't want to wear it, whatever, that's fine, nobody is saying you have too.
but some of us are using it, finding great success with it (had my best BG game ever) and sharing the experience.

no need to be so hostile.

chrightt

Wing wrote: »

ill be honest I skimmed, that was classic TL/DR

please read the whole thing if you're going to comment. Btw, your assumed "economy" is not only overly faulty it also does not address what I'm trying to talk about. You're assuming exact values to lead to exact outcomes. What I'm saying is unless your 10 skills have no spammable at all, the time you use to use a spammable can be used to reapply as well in a fixed situation where we only assume dmg/per skill cast worth. Your example is flawed, just in case you want to know what went wrong when you tried to create a scenario is that you're assuming exact pattern of skills for both p1/p2 leading to p1's death rather than a potential scenario with multiple ends. Long story, short don't try to sound smart because that isn't even called an "economy". I realize that "ESO's combat is not in minutes" no ***, but it can be. If all combat ends in 8 seconds curse eater would be ***. You're pretty much refuting your own point. Also, if you actually even read 1/4th of what I'm talking about I'll return your words to you:

Wing wrote: »

once again, if you don't like it, think its dumb, don't want to wear it, whatever, that's fine, nobody is saying you have too.

Personally, I would rather fight people running curse eater than ones that don't cause I straight up am geared up better for raw trades better than any curse eater set ever will vs my stam and I don't have any DoT stacks for my mag classes either. I mean eh... I really really don't care if you run it, I'm just telling you the full scope you have to consider. If you simply want to skim it and ignore some of the details I don't mind personally. As I said, I care more about those handful of good players vs losing to a zerg so curse eater players are, frankly, no threat to me (in fact quite the opposite being free kills).

Mayrael

Wing don't bother. Most ESO players just copy/paste builds from yt. You really think they bother to test alternative approaches? All they want is that sweet 5k weapon damage to pew pew people, who cares about defense? Roll dodge and vigor should be so powerful that you don't need any other sources of defense...

This set is pretty in line with others, now maybe even a bit better. It requires a bit of practice to use 100% of its potential power but still. After spending milions on testing gear on Cyrodiil live I can assure you one thing. If you know how to play you can kill most of the players with a spoon.

MizoreReyes

Why change my gear for a set that has a cool down, only 3 cures, and for something that a class skill can do much better job at.

MizoreReyes

and isn't single target.

BaiterOfZergs

Curse eater is actually really good, I was skeptical with the change but I finally got around to testing it and it’s still good for solo play.

Wing

MizoreReyes wrote: »

Why change my gear for a set that has a cool down, only 3 cures, and for something that a class skill can do much better job at.

oh? what DK and Sorc skills cleanse that I don't know about?

OG_Kaveman

@chrightt please read the whole thing if you're going to comment.

jesus man, you cant expect to have people on a gaming forum to read your 1,160 word, 3 paragraph novel. with a 313 word, 2 paragraph follow up. you just cant.

chrightt

@OG_Kaveman Thats like saying "I haven't read the machine's manual but the manual must suck". Whatever can I do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ignorance is bliss I suppose.

OG_Kaveman

chrightt wrote: »

@OG_Kaveman Thats like saying "I haven't read the machine's manual but the manual must suck". Whatever can I do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ignorance is bliss I suppose.

well first, you are not writing a manual. you are writing a post on a forum, context matters. second, i don't know about you or what manuals you have read lately, but most manuals i read for things these days are pretty short and to the point, you look up a problem with the item you have and the manual explains how to fix it. they don't have literally 6 pages (https://wordcounter.net/blog/2015/11/22/10915_how-many-words-on-a-page.html) of words to explain things. and if they would, the pages would have more than 3(!) paragraphs. lastly, take a some advice from shakespeare, Brevity is the soul of wit, or, if you like, the strongest heroes there is-

fred4

@chrightt, I posted the video without comments, right? Just as an example. Doesn't mean I agree with Else, although I do think he's a good player. Of course it's much easier to justify the set on a dark dealing stamsorc than on other classes and, of course, as you pointed out and Else says in the video, it only comes into it's own when 1vXing. He tried a bunch of sets and, for what he does, it seems to work better for him than others.

Else has put out more videos illustrating the DOT meta. I am personally not convinced. I think you have to find the bar space for the DOTs. Not everyone does. As you pointed out, some people (continue to) run burst builds instead, especially with Onslaught and the timing buff to D-Swing. I myself have not switched to DOTs and, as a cloaking NB main, I am also relatively unaffected by them. It's hard for me to judge this patch, as I'm only playing my main at present.

chrightt

@OG_Kaveman simply, like one would expect of a caveman, you don't need to read it. I'm just writing out a detailed explanation and analysis. I am not saying curseeater sucks (if you've read anything), I am simply saying there is a lot to be considered when trying to justify this set. As for the detailed justification, you can simply throw it out the window and run/don't run the set for all I care.

@fred4 k, awesome. Me watching the video without comments made me believe that you wholeheartedly agree with him. Just some minor misunderstanding and I also agree that it works for him but might not work for someone else.

Wing

fred4 wrote: »

@chrightt, I posted the video without comments, right? Just as an example. Doesn't mean I agree with Else, although I do think he's a good player. Of course it's much easier to justify the set on a dark dealing stamsorc than on other classes and, of course, as you pointed out and Else says in the video, it only comes into it's own when 1vXing. He tried a bunch of sets and, for what he does, it seems to work better for him than others.

Else has put out more videos illustrating the DOT meta. I am personally not convinced. I think you have to find the bar space for the DOTs. Not everyone does. As you pointed out, some people (continue to) run burst builds instead, especially with Onslaught and the timing buff to D-Swing. I myself have not switched to DOTs and, as a cloaking NB main, I am also relatively unaffected by them. It's hard for me to judge this patch, as I'm only playing my main at present.

I run entropy and soul trap on my templar (damn right behbeh) and then go into regular combat skills, the fact that they have no travel and just instantly apply at max range is just too much, its free massive dots.

MizoreReyes

Wing wrote: »

MizoreReyes wrote: »

Why change my gear for a set that has a cool down, only 3 cures, and for something that a class skill can do much better job at.

oh? what DK and Sorc skills cleanse that I don't know about?

What I mean was purge and ritual can do a much better job than this set. Those that don't have them are at a disadvantage and I play high MMR BG MagDK and not that laggy but easy CP Cyrodiil. So I know how struggling DoTs can be.