What to do as DK in PVP?

nejcn001

Title says it all...most of of DK skills are low ranged, you hardly come close enough to deal damage, but when you do, you get blown up in seconds.
Is DMG DK even viable in PVP? Should i focus more on tanking, supporting and anti heal sets?

JumpmanLane

MagDk is hitting like a truck hauling bricks while being tanky as a cinder block wall! Sustain is in the toilet but oh well.

Vs. people with a solid build 1v1 MagDk is in a great place. Vs. dummies with low resistances it’s not so much as killing fools as EXECUTING them.

Maybe it’s your build...

P.S. don’t run nothing you find online.

Urzigurumash

nejcn001 wrote: »

Is DMG DK even viable in PVP? Should i focus more on tanking, supporting and anti heal sets?

It depends what you mean by these terms.

I assume you are speaking of StamDK since you mention tanking and supporting sets.

If you are not having success in the style of a PvE StamDD, i.e. 5 Medium armor, bow / duel wield / 2h, then you should try 5 Heavy armor, and sword & board along with the DD weapon of your choice. We tend to favor 2h and sword & board. Increase your health until you find you are able to survive but can't do any damage, and then decrease from there to an acceptable medium.

As for getting into melee range, a Gap Closer is essential.

As for "tanking, supporting, and anti heal sets', tanking and supporting can be vague ideas in PvP. You will find most PvP StamDKs run 1 or 2 sets with some defensive bonus, and 1 or 2 sets with some offensive bonus, including Arena Weapons if possible. Some sets have their bonuses split between offense and defense, like the very popular 7th Legion, and the "anti heal" sets you speak of would probably fall in this category.

Use a defensive Mundus so long as you feel it is necessary. The Steed Sign is widely recognized as the premier Mundus for PvP StamDKs, and I can attest to its superlative efficacy. Per my memory, the Steed Sign is the best for most heavy armor melee warriors in Oblivion and Skyrin as well.

Vapirko

Stam or Mag?

Mag DK is real good right now. My personal favorite setup is heavy Shackle Breaker and Burning Spell Weave. Because Entropy and Soul Trap are so strong you can even drop Skoria or whatever and go with Bloodspawn. Basically you can have it all on a Mag DK rn. Sure they’re still slow but imo they’re pretty tops 1v1 and can do pretty well 1vX as well. Your only real challenge will be staying close to a Magicka Sorc or maybe Magblade. But the strong dot damage, whip spammable and fossilize means some serious pressure. That said I do think you have to really get into the Mag DK playstyle to enjoy it.

Stam DKs imo (though I don’t play one atm) have been neutered. They lost a big part of their pressure when SB got nerfed. Basically I haven’t run into a Stamina DK in Cyrodiil since Scalebreaker that I had to worry about. They’re super tanky but lack any real damage out out. Especially if you’ve got purge. They’re usually hard or impossible to kill but also can’t do anything, more or less design to kill noobs.

MartiniDaniels

Strongest stamDK features right now (imo):
1. best stam (self)healing - you need rally, vigor, cauterize with heavy armor + volatile + fragmented your burst healing is insane
2. claw - that thing cost nothing and deals ton of damage, notably buffed in last patch
3. noxious breath - that can be used as a spammable after latest changes and most important it is direct damage, so benefits from onslaught and corrosive
4. build for tankiness, use onslaught to kill somebody. In no-CP even with 27k stam+4-4.5k WD you start to melt things after onslaught. I'm average player, but even those tryhards who can kill you in 3 seconds if you won't block burst, even they usually kite away until onslaught vanishes

MizoreReyes

If you hate using meta builds and/or aren't using the three most optimal magicka race then don't go MagDK.

BNOC

Go MagDk with a full duel build and just duel all day long, you'll be sound.

fred4

I don't play stam DK anymore, so people correct me, if I'm wrong. I assume the meta is still something like Blood Spawn + Fury + 7th Legion, 1H+S back bar, 2H front bar.

OP: I feel like you do, when I play DK, but I normally play a super-high-speed nightblade. NBs choose who to fight, they are the aggressors, and they can typically back out of the fight as well. I see DKs more as counter-punchers. Slow, tanky, relying on being attacked. You can play a fast medium armor DK, but it is not their natural forte. Heavy armor and Fury in particular fits in with letting the fight come to you. You use 1H+S for defense while dotting people up and waiting for Fury to proc, then you have a choice between a Leap, DB, Corrosive or Onslaught combo. Or so the theory goes...

I think tight spaces fit tanky players better. That's why you see DK smallscalers trying to draw you into resource tower fights. You can't shoot around a corner. All fighting is effecively done at melee distance, which suits DKs. Magsorcs and nightblades may get involved in such fights, but while the shade was fixed, streak and cloak lose some of their effectiveness in tight spaces, especially when the opposing players put out AOE, such as Breath, Shalks and Dawnbreakers. A DK is in it's element, as it will simply out-tank a good bit of that damage, where a nightblade might get knocked out of cloak and be too squishy to take a significant amount.

chrightt

As a stamDK I can give some tips here:

1. First, as a DK I focus on survivability. Damage comes second because DK has such a strong defensive tool kit that not investing in survivaibility while having to fight in melee range is detrimental.
2. If you're having trouble try front bar: 2h, backbar: sword and shield with heavy armor. Using heavy armor allows you to push for stats other than stam/magicka regen while being able to maintain both pools (you need both because you use skills from both resources fairly often).
3. Some pretty nice sets as a DK: Seventh Legion (you can choose to only backbar this and frontbar something else like disciplined slash or merciless charge set), warrior's fury, Crest of Cyrodiil (especially in BG and obviously you have to know the block game. This set is harder to get full value out of if you're a beginner because you might over-block or block too little), along with bloodspawn as your monster set (great synergy for extra def/resist since the sets I've listed don't actually make you all that tanky other than being in heavy, and ulti regen = very important for DK to spam that OP take flight).
4. Skills you might try:
2h skills: stampede/critical rush, executioner, forward momentum/rally, dizzying swing
sword and shield: maybe heroic slash? mainly for the block/tankiness, spell ward (ulti)
DK tank kit: hardened armor, resolving vigor, cauterize, fragmented shield
DK offensive kit: venomous claws, noxious breath, take flight(ulti)
5. The idea behind DK is to help your teammates soak up damage a bit even if unintentionally. Your opponents are likely to focus you or accidentally target you sometimes since this isn't a tab targetting game and it really helps if you get your cauterize/hardened armor constantly up => vigor => fragmented shield => roll/block => vigor combo down to survive. Then you use your burst kit for pressure on enemies with lower HP and burst them down. If you're fighting 1vX you want to whittle down and kite your enemies until you find a target enough for you to kill. Great setup moves are: venomous claws, noxious breath (this skill I definitely recommend for you to put on pressure with take flight + executioner while adding some AoE pressure). Since you're in heavy armor you can't expect to spam dizzying swing and bring down your opponents easily unless they're on the glassier side of the spectrum. This makes set up moves like noxious breath/venomous claws a great set up.

Hope this helps, this is a stamDK build though cause I haven't tested magDK at all in scalebreaker.

Xvorg

JumpmanLane wrote: »

MagDk is hitting like a truck hauling bricks while being tanky as a cinder block wall! Sustain is in the toilet but oh well.

Vs. people with a solid build 1v1 MagDk is in a great place. Vs. dummies with low resistances it’s not so much as killing fools as EXECUTING them.

Maybe it’s your build...

P.S. don’t run nothing you find online.

Tell, what does make mDK to hit like a truck?

iCaliban

Xvorg wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

MagDk is hitting like a truck hauling bricks while being tanky as a cinder block wall! Sustain is in the toilet but oh well.

Vs. people with a solid build 1v1 MagDk is in a great place. Vs. dummies with low resistances it’s not so much as killing fools as EXECUTING them.

Maybe it’s your build...

P.S. don’t run nothing you find online.

Tell, what does make mDK to hit like a truck?

Engulfing and ele drain for a 20% damage boost against a target, molten whip is lethal at high stacks, leap is the best burst mag ult in the game. FOO will hit multiple enemies per proc.

InvictusApollo

nejcn001 wrote: »

Title says it all...most of of DK skills are low ranged, you hardly come close enough to deal damage, but when you do, you get blown up in seconds.
Is DMG DK even viable in PVP? Should i focus more on tanking, supporting and anti heal sets?

Step 1: Make a Female MagDK.
Step 2: Equip the whip.
Step 3: Run around pvp areas roleplaying a crazy dominatrix while whipping people around.

Wing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkttyxO4aAU

I run a version that's shackle and curse eater, monster sets change as I need, troll king, slimecraw, valkyn, blood spawn, etc.

Xvorg

iCaliban wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

MagDk is hitting like a truck hauling bricks while being tanky as a cinder block wall! Sustain is in the toilet but oh well.

Vs. people with a solid build 1v1 MagDk is in a great place. Vs. dummies with low resistances it’s not so much as killing fools as EXECUTING them.

Maybe it’s your build...

P.S. don’t run nothing you find online.

Tell, what does make mDK to hit like a truck?

Engulfing and ele drain for a 20% damage boost against a target, molten whip is lethal at high stacks, leap is the best burst mag ult in the game. FOO will hit multiple enemies per proc.

You are just naming all skills in melee, while OP complains about the lack of ranged options. mDK in melee is strong if you are allowed to use your skills, most of the time you will not be allowed to do so.

Now, going on detail about the options you mention:

1- Ele drain + engulfing is not a good combo right now when ranged dots are much stronger. Engulfing does nothing paired with soul trap or entropy. Ele drain is great with both on the other side (and much better on classes that passively increase your spell crit options). On top of that, it implies running s/b + destro back bar just for ele draing, not taking advantage of the DK blocking nature (unless you run a frost staff on the flame based class), or the major mending buff (quite strong while using a resto staff)

2- Molten whip is lethal if you allow it to be lethal. I don't think any decent player allows any mDK to hit him more than twice with an Ardent Lame skill. Apart from that, the stacks of seething were nerfed (same for the DoT component on engulfing). If you plan to include entropy, soul trap or both, you are forced to drop one or 2 Ardent lame skills, making seething fury even less reliable. If you build towards seething fury, then you are missing the 2 best magicka based DoTs in the game.

3- Leap is strong, and it is nice it didn't received the cast time treatment, but it is still a burst ultimate on a DoT oriented class, and a fire ultimate that does not receive any benefit from the Ardent Lame passives, or the Elder Dragon passives. The only passive in the class that affect this ultimate is Battle Roar. Now tell me what other class ultimate receive that treatment in the whole game? All class ultimates are affected by the passives in their own skill lines or even other skill lines.

Don't get me wrong, I think mDK is doing it much better than previous patches for the moment, but your building options are limited, and the available options per se make no sense in a global view.

Vermethys

What to do as a (Stam)DK:

*First, you build to be tanky as heck. Bloodspawn, S&B, Heavy Armor, and Lingering pots are still your best friends. Be sure to use Fragmented Shield + Vigor regularly and whenever you predict high incoming damage. Keep up Cauterize.
*Then you mix all sorts of fun DoTs, but don't over do it -- I like limiting it to just Noxious and Claw. Other DoTs come from 2h axe bleed, poisoned status effect, double DoT poisons. Carve is not worth it on this class.
*Be sure to have enough sustain. 1.7k recovery should be enough in most cases.
*Find a source of Major Defile.
*Outlast skilled players and melt inexperienced ones. If you find a Templar that doesn't die in a few seconds, you'll probably just die of boredom.

MagDK is almost a similar story, but with more investment into survivability and burst timing. Buffer of the Swift and Bloodspawn help the class a lot.

NordJitsu

DK is the strongest class in PvP. Wear heavy armor, Stam or mag, doesn’t matter.

BlackMadara

Xvorg wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

MagDk is hitting like a truck hauling bricks while being tanky as a cinder block wall! Sustain is in the toilet but oh well.

Vs. people with a solid build 1v1 MagDk is in a great place. Vs. dummies with low resistances it’s not so much as killing fools as EXECUTING them.

Maybe it’s your build...

P.S. don’t run nothing you find online.

Tell, what does make mDK to hit like a truck?

Engulfing and ele drain for a 20% damage boost against a target, molten whip is lethal at high stacks, leap is the best burst mag ult in the game. FOO will hit multiple enemies per proc.

You are just naming all skills in melee, while OP complains about the lack of ranged options. mDK in melee is strong if you are allowed to use your skills, most of the time you will not be allowed to do so.

Now, going on detail about the options you mention:

1- Ele drain + engulfing is not a good combo right now when ranged dots are much stronger. Engulfing does nothing paired with soul trap or entropy. Ele drain is great with both on the other side (and much better on classes that passively increase your spell crit options). On top of that, it implies running s/b + destro back bar just for ele draing, not taking advantage of the DK blocking nature (unless you run a frost staff on the flame based class), or the major mending buff (quite strong while using a resto staff)

2- Molten whip is lethal if you allow it to be lethal. I don't think any decent player allows any mDK to hit him more than twice with an Ardent Lame skill. Apart from that, the stacks of seething were nerfed (same for the DoT component on engulfing). If you plan to include entropy, soul trap or both, you are forced to drop one or 2 Ardent lame skills, making seething fury even less reliable. If you build towards seething fury, then you are missing the 2 best magicka based DoTs in the game.

3- Leap is strong, and it is nice it didn't received the cast time treatment, but it is still a burst ultimate on a DoT oriented class, and a fire ultimate that does not receive any benefit from the Ardent Lame passives, or the Elder Dragon passives. The only passive in the class that affect this ultimate is Battle Roar. Now tell me what other class ultimate receive that treatment in the whole game? All class ultimates are affected by the passives in their own skill lines or even other skill lines.

Don't get me wrong, I think mDK is doing it much better than previous patches for the moment, but your building options are limited, and the available options per se make no sense in a global view.

Soul trap and and entropy are better at range, but that's about it. A DK works best in melee range, weak passives and all. Also, anybody running 3 DoTs are missing something crucial on their bars, and will die in small scale, uncoordinated combat.

I disagree with the overuse of trap and entropy on mDK. Yes, they deal more damage than engulfing (EF) in their DoT function, but engulfing applies more damage upfront and the increased fire damage is significant. In burst scenarios, engulfing is better.

My build for example:
Flame lash: 10843
Power lash: 12880
Burning embers (BE): 5812 + 2089/s
Engulfing flames (EF): 8594 + 1029/s
Entropy/Trap: 2708/s
Leap: 19499
Burning proc: 1595
Flame staff la: 4720
Fossilize: 5600

So a general combo of engulfing>burning embers>foss>flame lash>power lash with a burning proc up (I believe it still ticks 3 times over 4 seconds, but we'll count 2 ticks)

BE + EF = 81500
Trap + Entropy = 69469
BE + trap = 73424

Much higher damage in burst scenario.

For just setting BE and EF vs trap and entropy it does look different. Over 10s

BE + EF = 49285
Trap + Entropy = 54160

So just alone, the magic DoTs are better. However, even with one burst combo and allowing the dots to run for 10s, the damage is the same.

BE + EF = 104377
Trap + Entropy = 104295

So overall, just setting and forgetting the DoTs, trap and entropy are better, but, in actual combat for a mDK, BE and EF are either as strong or stronger. BE and EF are harder to use, but the tradeoff is worth it. I don't even use trap or entropy, and I have been doing more than fine.

JumpmanLane

Xvorg wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

MagDk is hitting like a truck hauling bricks while being tanky as a cinder block wall! Sustain is in the toilet but oh well.

Vs. people with a solid build 1v1 MagDk is in a great place. Vs. dummies with low resistances it’s not so much as killing fools as EXECUTING them.

Maybe it’s your build...

P.S. don’t run nothing you find online.

Tell, what does make mDK to hit like a truck?

I ain’t giving out builds but Destro Resto. 2 damage sets of your choice. Don’t be scared ( I was!) and run like 700 magicka recovery.

Blackrose Prison Resto, Ele Drain, Resto heavy attack a lot. Run Deep Thoughts if you can fit it on your bar.

Those are some hints. Embers, Structured Entropy of course. Soul Trap? Run Engulfing but that’d be overkill boarding on cheese. You’ll have PLENTY of damage.

Skoria might be considered overkill too; but MONSTER SET OF CHOICE.

THIS patch what you want is damage, heals plus tankiness. Screw sustain. You can have it if you work for it. You know, do something to get it (Ele Drain and Resto heavies a lot.) And you’re gold 1v1. Open world you might need pots and Deep Thoughts.

OwnerOfSuccuby

For me to make NB and do not play dk was best option

nejcn001

What about Critical rush...is it a viable spamable for pvp? High WD and no crit chance?

usmguy1234

nejcn001 wrote: »

Title says it all...most of of DK skills are low ranged, you hardly come close enough to deal damage, but when you do, you get blown up in seconds.
Is DMG DK even viable in PVP? Should i focus more on tanking, supporting and anti heal sets?

Bro dk is pretty much god mode for pvp...stam or mag. Literally pick your poison/ fire.

MartiniDaniels

nejcn001 wrote: »

What about Critical rush...is it a viable spamable for pvp? High WD and no crit chance?

No, tooltip is low, cost is high. This is just a good gap closer which adds some punch, but certainly not a spammable.

lucky_Sage

Get your DoTs on before your opponent.
My Magdk hits hard. But sustain is bad I could fix sustain but you know it makes sense for the sustain class to have worse sustain.

jaws343

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

nejcn001 wrote: »

What about Critical rush...is it a viable spamable for pvp? High WD and no crit chance?

No, tooltip is low, cost is high. This is just a good gap closer which adds some punch, but certainly not a spammable.

I am actually working on a build using this as a spammable. Not a DK though.

For MagDK, I am considering moving away from my glass cannon Axiom/SotS damage build into a more tanky build using Buffer of the Swift, Indomitable Fury, and Pirate Skeleton (or Zaan). With Infused spell damage glyphs for damage and dropping any kind of shield altogether and using Chains as a gap closer.

Xvorg

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

MagDk is hitting like a truck hauling bricks while being tanky as a cinder block wall! Sustain is in the toilet but oh well.

Vs. people with a solid build 1v1 MagDk is in a great place. Vs. dummies with low resistances it’s not so much as killing fools as EXECUTING them.

Maybe it’s your build...

P.S. don’t run nothing you find online.

Tell, what does make mDK to hit like a truck?

I ain’t giving out builds but Destro Resto. 2 damage sets of your choice. Don’t be scared ( I was!) and run like 700 magicka recovery.

Blackrose Prison Resto, Ele Drain, Resto heavy attack a lot. Run Deep Thoughts if you can fit it on your bar.

Those are some hints. Embers, Structured Entropy of course. Soul Trap? Run Engulfing but that’d be overkill boarding on cheese. You’ll have PLENTY of damage.

Skoria might be considered overkill too; but MONSTER SET OF CHOICE.

THIS patch what you want is damage, heals plus tankiness. Screw sustain. You can have it if you work for it. You know, do something to get it (Ele Drain and Resto heavies a lot.) And you’re gold 1v1. Open world you might need pots and Deep Thoughts.

The thing is that you do much more dmg with a NB using that set up, than a mDK. Ele drain + full heavy resto + siph strike give you better recovery than the dice game Dks have to play. And full heavy resto not only makes you recover magicka, also reduce your dmg received if you have merciless active. With the proper build mageblade can easily become tankier, burstier and with a much better resource recovery than mDK not relying on cloak and even playing from range.

mDK is just the FotM until ranged classes realize that in a ranged DoT meta, mDK (and sDK) have no natural means to purge DoTs os avoid their dmg, as Templars or NBs.

WillhelmBlack

It's been over nerfed. It literally has nothing left apart from DPS and Fossilize. Flame Lash dodgeable, Wings no longer reflect, less resources on Ult.

You get absolutely trashed by NB's now, you can't even see the 'miss' s on screen anymore so unless you run detect pots you're dead in 2 seconds.

Templar can purify all your dots.

Sorc can insta bang you.

Anything with a 2h can insta bang you.

Warden can heal off your dots.

I still see other Mag DK's about, most I think wear heavy armour and I've never seen them have enough damage to kill a player unless they got help.

Ozazz

nejcn001 wrote: »

Title says it all...most of of DK skills are low ranged, you hardly come close enough to deal damage, but when you do, you get blown up in seconds.
Is DMG DK even viable in PVP? Should i focus more on tanking, supporting and anti heal sets?

how are these people allowed on forum's like honestly?

Ozazz

omfg god my head hurt's reading these comment's

psycoprophet

Ur a dk, just be pure awsomeness like ur meant to be.

lucky_Sage

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

It's been over nerfed. It literally has nothing left apart from DPS and Fossilize. Flame Lash dodgeable, Wings no longer reflect, less resources on Ult.

You get absolutely trashed by NB's now, you can't even see the 'miss' s on screen anymore so unless you run detect pots you're dead in 2 seconds.

Templar can purify all your dots.

Sorc can insta bang you.

Anything with a 2h can insta bang you.

Warden can heal off your dots.

I still see other Mag DK's about, most I think wear heavy armour and I've never seen them have enough damage to kill a player unless they got help.

Why they all should of just stayed light armor.
Magdk dmg is solid but they have the worse sustain.
My standen has only 100 more Stam recov and 5.5k less Stam than my Magdk has in mag and has zero issues with sustain

JumpmanLane

I unno you can build anyway you want but if you build RIGHT, MagDk is in a GREAT place.