Listen to your community!

Micah_Bayer

md3788

Not saying I agree or disagree, but 330 people is hardly representative of the community

redspecter23

It should be obvious that nobody likes cast times. Nobody likes taxes. Nobody likes getting a shot from the doctor. These things all serve a purpose. At least from the dev perspective, they are attempting to balance strong abilities with a delay in order to keep the power level intact. There are other alternatives of course. Increased cost, reduced power even hard cooldowns in some cases. I think the problem is that ZOS wants to balance and no matter what the nerf is (in this case cast times) nobody wants to see a nerf, especially one that hits things seemingly at random with little explanation.

Mayrael

md3788 wrote: »

Not saying I agree or disagree, but 330 people is hardly representative of the community

Same as statistic made by anyone, it's just a representative group. If you would do this poll and all players would vote results would be different but not so much.

Gilvoth

one group weighs thick on this forum and spams polls and threads to get what they want and they make it look like they represent the entire eso community.
when we all know, that if you want to find out what the community wants, its not by the forums, its by their @account Email.

many people that have accounts in eso dont even come to the forums.
forum polls are the very worst place to get an idea of what the entire eso community feels or wants.
if you want to be accurate then youll need to ask them directly by their @account Email.

Edit:
in addition to that, many people that DO have forum accounts might have never even seen that poll to vote and may not even come to the forums daily to even know such a poll existed.

Edit:
in addition to that, youll note that there is an amount of people that did vote that they Want those cast times.
and by the way, this is worth noting that people are not going to follow 1 guilds decision to dominate this forum, well, i mean i hope thats not the case, because currently and now for a few Years, thats how its been.

Mayrael

Gilvoth wrote: »

one group weighs thick on this forum and spams polls and threads to get what they want and they make it look like they represent the entire eso community.
when we all know, that if you want to find out what the community wants, its not by the forums, its by their @account Email.

many people that have accounts in eso dont even come to the forums.
forum polls are the very worst place to get an idea of what the entire eso community feels or wants.
if you want to be accurate then youll need to ask them directly by their @account Email.

Edit:
in addition to that, many people that DO have forum accounts might have never even seen that poll to vote and may not even come to the forums daily to even know such a poll existed.

Edit:
in addition to that, youll note that there is an amount of people that did vote that they Want those cast times.
and by the way, this is worth noting that people are not going to follow 1 guilds decision to dominate this forum, well, i mean i hope thats not the case, because currently and now for a few Years, thats how its been.

Yes and the other group just want to keep all the nerfs to "others" since it doesn't concerns them, but nobody stops anyone from voting in these polls.

Mickey

King of Dead Sorcs, Preach!!!

Gilvoth

redspecter23 wrote: »

It should be obvious that nobody likes cast times.

that is simply False information.
people are allowed to disagree and not be insulted and bashed for iT

now i myself Hate cast times on Anything, HOWEVER, seing them placed on ultimates during this Current time period that exploits, glitches and cheats are THICKin gameplay especially in pvp right now drives me to agree that cast times on ALL ultimates is a Really Good idea, and many people agree with me, especially in my guild and others ive spoken to ingame and in zone chat and may other eso based forums.

frostz417

Cast times ruins the game. Prove me wrong

Gilvoth

you act as if this is a democracy and somehow the people are the deciding Factor in decisions made in the game.
thats simply Not True!
the developers Make the decisions, and the communities forum polls and forum threads are a part of the final decisions, but not the Dominant deciding Factors!

MehrunesFlagon

Gilvoth wrote: »

one group weighs thick on this forum and spams polls and threads to get what they want and they make it look like they represent the entire eso community.
when we all know, that if you want to find out what the community wants, its not by the forums, its by their @account Email.

many people that have accounts in eso dont even come to the forums.
forum polls are the very worst place to get an idea of what the entire eso community feels or wants.
if you want to be accurate then youll need to ask them directly by their @account Email.

Edit:
in addition to that, many people that DO have forum accounts might have never even seen that poll to vote and may not even come to the forums daily to even know such a poll existed.

Edit:
in addition to that, youll note that there is an amount of people that did vote that they Want those cast times.
and by the way, this is worth noting that people are not going to follow 1 guilds decision to dominate this forum, well, i mean i hope thats not the case, because currently and now for a few Years, thats how its been.

Yeah, good look even getting me to open up my email.I only use that for registering for things online.Who knows how much trash is in my email now.

VaranisArano

Mayrael wrote: »

show previous quotes

md3788 wrote: »

Not saying I agree or disagree, but 330 people is hardly representative of the community

Same as statistic made by anyone, it's just a representative group. If you would do this poll and all players would vote results would be different but not so much.

That's not how representative groups work.

Representative groups mean you pick a smaller group that matches the characteristics of the population at large.

So you'd have to control your sample of voters for how representative they are of the whole player base in order to draw accurate conclusions or predictions from a poll with any degree of certainty. The smaller your pool of voters is, it becomes even more important that you get your representation exactly right, because otherwise you can skew the data significantly.

The forum population that votes on any given poll is almost certainly NOT a representative sample of the whole playerbase. (In fact, I'd hazard a guess that even the whole of the forum population isn't particularly representative of the whole playerbase, though its much closer than a poll with 300+ voters..)

And that's why forum polls are pretty useless for proving anything other than "This is the opinion of a small group of self-selecting forum posters."

So while you might be correct in your speculation about how all players would vote, that poll can't be extrapolated to speak for the whole playerbase with any accuracy.

MehrunesFlagon

Gilvoth wrote: »

show previous quotes

redspecter23 wrote: »

It should be obvious that nobody likes cast times.

that is simply False information.
people are allowed to disagree and not be insulted and bashed for iT

now i myself Hate cast times on Anything, HOWEVER, seing them placed on ultimates during this Current time period that exploits, glitches and cheats are THICKin gameplay especially in pvp right now drives me to agree that cast times on ALL ultimates is a Really Good idea, and many people agree with me, especially in my guild and others ive spoken to ingame and in zone chat and may other eso based forums.

Not going to let pvp decide what happens in pve.

Ragnaroek93

Gilvoth wrote: »

show previous quotes

redspecter23 wrote: »

It should be obvious that nobody likes cast times.

that is simply False information.
people are allowed to disagree and not be insulted and bashed for iT

now i myself Hate cast times on Anything, HOWEVER, seing them placed on ultimates during this Current time period that exploits, glitches and cheats are THICKin gameplay especially in pvp right now drives me to agree that cast times on ALL ultimates is a Really Good idea, and many people agree with me, especially in my guild and others ive spoken to ingame and in zone chat and may other eso based forums.

Do you want to say that people who use animation canceling and/or bash cancelling are cheating?

MehrunesFlagon

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Gilvoth wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

It should be obvious that nobody likes cast times.

that is simply False information.
people are allowed to disagree and not be insulted and bashed for iT

now i myself Hate cast times on Anything, HOWEVER, seing them placed on ultimates during this Current time period that exploits, glitches and cheats are THICKin gameplay especially in pvp right now drives me to agree that cast times on ALL ultimates is a Really Good idea, and many people agree with me, especially in my guild and others ive spoken to ingame and in zone chat and may other eso based forums.

Do you want to say that people who use animation canceling and/or bash cancelling are cheating?

I swear half the people that refer to as cheating call it macro hacking,which doesn't even make sense.

redspecter23

Gilvoth wrote: »

show previous quotes

redspecter23 wrote: »

It should be obvious that nobody likes cast times.

that is simply False information.
people are allowed to disagree and not be insulted and bashed for iT

now i myself Hate cast times on Anything, HOWEVER, seing them placed on ultimates during this Current time period that exploits, glitches and cheats are THICKin gameplay especially in pvp right now drives me to agree that cast times on ALL ultimates is a Really Good idea, and many people agree with me, especially in my guild and others ive spoken to ingame and in zone chat and may other eso based forums.

I suppose I wasn't very clear. My point is that cast times are a negative balancing method. As a base, abilities have no cast time. A cast time (a negative effect) is added in order to balance an ability. Negative things are generally considered bad but are there for a reason. The poll asking if players like cast times will obviously be one sided just as if one were to ask questions such as...

Do you want $50 yes/no
Do you think kittens are cute yes/no
Would you like to have 4 of your fingers snapped in half yes/no

Basically the poll asks if people want a negative effect without providing anything else such as the reasoning for that negative effect or alternatives to that. When I say It's obvious that nobody likes cast times, I mean in reference to that particular poll question. Outside of outliers, most people are going to object to cast times, especially without any other context added.

Davadin

redspecter23 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Gilvoth wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

It should be obvious that nobody likes cast times.

that is simply False information.
people are allowed to disagree and not be insulted and bashed for iT

now i myself Hate cast times on Anything, HOWEVER, seing them placed on ultimates during this Current time period that exploits, glitches and cheats are THICKin gameplay especially in pvp right now drives me to agree that cast times on ALL ultimates is a Really Good idea, and many people agree with me, especially in my guild and others ive spoken to ingame and in zone chat and may other eso based forums.

I suppose I wasn't very clear. My point is that cast times are a negative balancing method. As a base, abilities have no cast time. A cast time (a negative effect) is added in order to balance an ability. Negative things are generally considered bad but are there for a reason. The poll asking if players like cast times will obviously be one sided just as if one were to ask questions such as...

Do you want $50 yes/no
Do you think kittens are cute yes/no
Would you like to have 4 of your fingers snapped in half yes/no

Basically the poll asks if people want a negative effect without providing anything else such as the reasoning for that negative effect or alternatives to that. When I say It's obvious that nobody likes cast times, I mean in reference to that particular poll question. Outside of outliers, most people are going to object to cast times, especially without any other context added.

as a base, many abilities have no cast time, and as such can be animation-cancelled. that's a positive.

a cast time on ultimates is a small negative to balance. it's not on all abilities.

i understand how the poll looks like but the question really is it's a balancing effort. not simply a negative aspect without giving anything in return.

Jodynn

redspecter23 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Gilvoth wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

It should be obvious that nobody likes cast times.

that is simply False information.
people are allowed to disagree and not be insulted and bashed for iT

now i myself Hate cast times on Anything, HOWEVER, seing them placed on ultimates during this Current time period that exploits, glitches and cheats are THICKin gameplay especially in pvp right now drives me to agree that cast times on ALL ultimates is a Really Good idea, and many people agree with me, especially in my guild and others ive spoken to ingame and in zone chat and may other eso based forums.

I suppose I wasn't very clear. My point is that cast times are a negative balancing method. As a base, abilities have no cast time. A cast time (a negative effect) is added in order to balance an ability. Negative things are generally considered bad but are there for a reason. The poll asking if players like cast times will obviously be one sided just as if one were to ask questions such as...

Do you want $50 yes/no
Do you think kittens are cute yes/no
Would you like to have 4 of your fingers snapped in half yes/no

Basically the poll asks if people want a negative effect without providing anything else such as the reasoning for that negative effect or alternatives to that. When I say It's obvious that nobody likes cast times, I mean in reference to that particular poll question. Outside of outliers, most people are going to object to cast times, especially without any other context added.

Whether cast times are negative or not the current negative ( cast times ) aren't worth it and don't add enough reward or happiness to mesh with the fast paced combat; it's clunky, and in lag impossible.

Your argument makes sense, but the problem is most of the skills don't have the impact or reward needed to warrant the cost of a cast time.

Whether they change to no cast times or actually make them worth the while, fine, but in the current state it's clear they are not.

Zatox

Listen to professional game developers who are paid by the Studio. Community is important, but incompetent to make good decisions and usually asks for "win button"

Jodynn

Experience is subjective as well as knowledge of the subject; a win button isn't a concern, a imbalance of power is the concern and cast times are clunky and not worth.

Mayrael

Zatox wrote: »

Listen to professional game developers who are paid by the Studio. Community is important, but incompetent to make good decisions and usually asks for "win button"

Mhm, that's why we had already:
- instant death by proc sets
- bleeds ticking for 3,5k
- sorcs with unavoidable cc that also dealt damage
- shields with cast time
- dot and enchants meta
- pummeling Goliath bash
- zoo sorcs meta

And these are just the ones I can remember the best. Don't talk to us like "community is incompetent while devs are super skilled", they have made many mistakes, almost every patch players find some broken things in PTS but ZOS very rarely fixes it. If not the community this game would be lost years ago.

Don't get me wrong, devs are trying their best but they don't play their own game, they have less experience than players who spend hours each day playing ESO, thus the community knows what's good for the game.

Always when ZOS is about to make a huge mistake we warn them, there is no classes then because even the ones who could benefit from broken things understand that those things lead to players leaving the game and nobody wants it.

So yup, nobody with a bit of experience wants cast times because he knows how poor performance we have right now and with cast times those ultis will take 2s to land.