Medium armor and the dot meta

Epicasballs

Can we have DoT suppression while we have the iframes buff active after dodge roll? With all the stam healing being nerfed how are medium builds going to survive with sub par heals. Mag builds can soak them up with shields or out heal them with more than fine healing. Dodge roll into vigor or rally gives meduim a shot at gaining health back if DoTs were suppressed during the invulnerability window. Otherwise medium is rip. Cloak suppresses dots so it's not terribly out of line.

EDITED to add that after some debate a 33% reduction to dot damage during a roll dodge would be more suitable.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

wheem_ESO

I would be against such a change. Shields are taking a pretty significant hit this patch, as are two other primary forms of defense for magicka builds - Protective and Pirate Skeleton.

Given Magicka Necromancer's sustain issues, bar space limitations, and the nerfs to Harness Magicka, there's a really good chance I won't even be able to run any shields. If I end up being forced to run a defense 5 piece set, which seems kinda likely, the shields will end up too small to matter, and absolutely not be worth the resource cost.

If I have to eat all this DOT damage, why shouldn't you? Stamina builds already have superior mobility, and are more likely to be able to break range/LOS and get some breathing room. Sure, I have more healing options than you do, but it's not like I'll be able to stand around shrugging off all the damage, especially not with how bad Magicka Necromancer's sustain is (and that'll get worse if I end up having to run Fortified Brass or something next patch).

Nerftheforums

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I would be against such a change. Shields are taking a pretty significant hit this patch, as are two other primary forms of defense for magicka builds - Protective and Pirate Skeleton.

Given Magicka Necromancer's sustain issues, bar space limitations, and the nerfs to Harness Magicka, there's a really good chance I won't even be able to run any shields. If I end up being forced to run a defense 5 piece set, which seems kinda likely, the shields will end up too small to matter, and absolutely not be worth the resource cost.

If I have to eat all this DOT damage, why shouldn't you? Stamina builds already have superior mobility, and are more likely to be able to break range/LOS and get some breathing room. Sure, I have more healing options than you do, but it's not like I'll be able to stand around shrugging off all the damage, especially not with how bad Magicka Necromancer's sustain is (and that'll get worse if I end up having to run Fortified Brass or something next patch).

You compare the balancing of an armor to the one of a terribly designed class. Despite I agree with the statement that having iframes tied to dot suppression isn't good, your argument is extremely weak.

Medium armor is poop, it has been for years, a bit because of how much damage has ramped up, a bit because of how poor the passives are. Thing is, medium armor users gonna melt no matter what next patch, unless they give us soemthing to counter these crazy dots passively (hots, resistances to dots, etc). Being immune to dots mid dodge roll won't change much since you'll get *** as soon as you try to sprint or attack.

wheem_ESO

Nerftheforums wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I would be against such a change. Shields are taking a pretty significant hit this patch, as are two other primary forms of defense for magicka builds - Protective and Pirate Skeleton.

Given Magicka Necromancer's sustain issues, bar space limitations, and the nerfs to Harness Magicka, there's a really good chance I won't even be able to run any shields. If I end up being forced to run a defense 5 piece set, which seems kinda likely, the shields will end up too small to matter, and absolutely not be worth the resource cost.

If I have to eat all this DOT damage, why shouldn't you? Stamina builds already have superior mobility, and are more likely to be able to break range/LOS and get some breathing room. Sure, I have more healing options than you do, but it's not like I'll be able to stand around shrugging off all the damage, especially not with how bad Magicka Necromancer's sustain is (and that'll get worse if I end up having to run Fortified Brass or something next patch).

You compare the balancing of an armor to the one of a terribly designed class. Despite I agree with the statement that having iframes tied to dot suppression isn't good, you argument is extremely weak.

Medium armor is poop, it has been for years, a bit because of how much damage has ramped up, a bit because of how poor the passives are. Thing is, medium armor users gonna melt no matter what next patch, unless they give us soemthing to counter these crazy dots passively (hots, resistances to dots, etc). Being immune to dots mid dodge roll won't change much since you'll get *** as soon as you try to sprint or attack.

And you think light armor is going to be much better off? Just toss an occasional HOT and happily ignore all the DOT damage which, unlike stam builds, you can't escape from?

Calboy

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I would be against such a change. Shields are taking a pretty significant hit this patch, as are two other primary forms of defense for magicka builds - Protective and Pirate Skeleton.

Given Magicka Necromancer's sustain issues, bar space limitations, and the nerfs to Harness Magicka, there's a really good chance I won't even be able to run any shields. If I end up being forced to run a defense 5 piece set, which seems kinda likely, the shields will end up too small to matter, and absolutely not be worth the resource cost.

If I have to eat all this DOT damage, why shouldn't you? Stamina builds already have superior mobility, and are more likely to be able to break range/LOS and get some breathing room. Sure, I have more healing options than you do, but it's not like I'll be able to stand around shrugging off all the damage, especially not with how bad Magicka Necromancer's sustain is (and that'll get worse if I end up having to run Fortified Brass or something next patch).

You compare the balancing of an armor to the one of a terribly designed class. Despite I agree with the statement that having iframes tied to dot suppression isn't good, you argument is extremely weak.

Medium armor is poop, it has been for years, a bit because of how much damage has ramped up, a bit because of how poor the passives are. Thing is, medium armor users gonna melt no matter what next patch, unless they give us soemthing to counter these crazy dots passively (hots, resistances to dots, etc). Being immune to dots mid dodge roll won't change much since you'll get *** as soon as you try to sprint or attack.

And you think light armor is going to be much better off? Just toss an occasional HOT and happily ignore all the DOT damage which, unlike stam builds, you can't escape from?

Atleast light have shields and better heals to soak up dot damage. Stam builds literally only have vigor which won't out heal multiple dots from a single player

To beat a medium user all you have to do it load on maybe three dots and sit back and watch the health disappear

TriangularChicken

Epicasballs wrote: »

Can we have DoT suppression while we have the iframes buff active after dodge roll? With all the stam healing being nerfed how are medium builds going to survive with sub par heals. Mag builds can soak them up with shields or out heal them with more than fine healing. Dodge roll into vigor or rally gives meduim a shot at gaining health back if DoTs were suppressed during the invulnerability window. Otherwise medium is rip. Cloak suppresses dots so it's not terribly out of line.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Im not against a buff to medium armor, but let's not give medium armor NBs 100% DoT suppression please, ok?

Derra

I dislike the idea of 100% dmg evasion. That’s just too powerful.

I would like the idea of sth like 50% dmg reduction for dmg over time while dodging.

master_vanargand

Medium Armor can't survive in PvP.
Balance? Where is it?

Epicasballs

I'm not saying it's the best idea but if they don't want medium stam to have good heals perhaps there are other avenues to explore. Or just go heavy to mitigate damage better and leave medium an almost pve only option unless you're a nightblade. Other suggestions are welcome.

Epicasballs

TriangularChicken wrote: »

Epicasballs wrote: »

Can we have DoT suppression while we have the iframes buff active after dodge roll? With all the stam healing being nerfed how are medium builds going to survive with sub par heals. Mag builds can soak them up with shields or out heal them with more than fine healing. Dodge roll into vigor or rally gives meduim a shot at gaining health back if DoTs were suppressed during the invulnerability window. Otherwise medium is rip. Cloak suppresses dots so it's not terribly out of line.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Im not against a buff to medium armor, but let's not give medium armor NBs 100% DoT suppression please, ok?

They already do.... cloak.

olsborg

Derra wrote: »

I dislike the idea of 100% dmg evasion. That’s just too powerful.

I would like the idea of sth like 50% dmg reduction for dmg over time while dodging.

I was just gonna suggest something like this aswell. 100% would be way too strong, 33% is more balanced imo. ZOS should really look into this tho, because medium armor shines in some situations, but are completely negated in others. This is on live, and dots is the main culprit, with Scalebreaker patch this problem for medium armor will just escalate to new heights.

Epicasballs

olsborg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I dislike the idea of 100% dmg evasion. That’s just too powerful.

I would like the idea of sth like 50% dmg reduction for dmg over time while dodging.

I was just gonna suggest something like this aswell. 100% would be way too strong, 33% is more balanced imo. ZOS should really look into this tho, because medium armor shines in some situations, but are completely negated in others. This is on live, and dots is the main culprit, with Scalebreaker patch this problem for medium armor will just escalate to new heights.

I'd settle for 33% for 3 seconds following a dodge roll. Restrict it to a 5 piece medium passive.

olsborg

Epicasballs wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I dislike the idea of 100% dmg evasion. That’s just too powerful.

I would like the idea of sth like 50% dmg reduction for dmg over time while dodging.

I was just gonna suggest something like this aswell. 100% would be way too strong, 33% is more balanced imo. ZOS should really look into this tho, because medium armor shines in some situations, but are completely negated in others. This is on live, and dots is the main culprit, with Scalebreaker patch this problem for medium armor will just escalate to new heights.

I'd settle for 33% for 3 seconds following a dodge roll. Restrict it to a 5 piece medium passive.

I would restrict it to as long as you are actively dodging. If you are in the dodge animation and you are still actively dodging projectiles etc coming at you. This would actually make a certain medium armor set just abit stronger. Not saying this set would be fine then, it would still need further adjustment to be worthy of use.

Epicasballs

olsborg wrote: »

Epicasballs wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I dislike the idea of 100% dmg evasion. That’s just too powerful.

I would like the idea of sth like 50% dmg reduction for dmg over time while dodging.

I was just gonna suggest something like this aswell. 100% would be way too strong, 33% is more balanced imo. ZOS should really look into this tho, because medium armor shines in some situations, but are completely negated in others. This is on live, and dots is the main culprit, with Scalebreaker patch this problem for medium armor will just escalate to new heights.

I'd settle for 33% for 3 seconds following a dodge roll. Restrict it to a 5 piece medium passive.

I would restrict it to as long as you are actively dodging. If you are in the dodge animation and you are still actively dodging projectiles etc coming at you. This would actually make a certain medium armor set just abit stronger. Not saying this set would be fine then, it would still need further adjustment to be worthy of use.

Forgot that set existed lol. Whatever the case and however long the duration it's plain to see medium is going to be at an even greater disadvantage in this patch. If ZOS wants dodge roll to be the main defense for medium builds then this is an issue that should be addressed in some way. Especially after the vigor nerf.

Vapirko

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I would be against such a change. Shields are taking a pretty significant hit this patch, as are two other primary forms of defense for magicka builds - Protective and Pirate Skeleton.

Given Magicka Necromancer's sustain issues, bar space limitations, and the nerfs to Harness Magicka, there's a really good chance I won't even be able to run any shields. If I end up being forced to run a defense 5 piece set, which seems kinda likely, the shields will end up too small to matter, and absolutely not be worth the resource cost.

If I have to eat all this DOT damage, why shouldn't you? Stamina builds already have superior mobility, and are more likely to be able to break range/LOS and get some breathing room. Sure, I have more healing options than you do, but it's not like I'll be able to stand around shrugging off all the damage, especially not with how bad Magicka Necromancer's sustain is (and that'll get worse if I end up having to run Fortified Brass or something next patch).

This is just spoken like someone who doesn't play a medium armor stam build at all.

wheem_ESO

Vapirko wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I would be against such a change. Shields are taking a pretty significant hit this patch, as are two other primary forms of defense for magicka builds - Protective and Pirate Skeleton.

Given Magicka Necromancer's sustain issues, bar space limitations, and the nerfs to Harness Magicka, there's a really good chance I won't even be able to run any shields. If I end up being forced to run a defense 5 piece set, which seems kinda likely, the shields will end up too small to matter, and absolutely not be worth the resource cost.

If I have to eat all this DOT damage, why shouldn't you? Stamina builds already have superior mobility, and are more likely to be able to break range/LOS and get some breathing room. Sure, I have more healing options than you do, but it's not like I'll be able to stand around shrugging off all the damage, especially not with how bad Magicka Necromancer's sustain is (and that'll get worse if I end up having to run Fortified Brass or something next patch).

This is just spoken like someone who doesn't play a medium armor stam build at all.

Many magicka builds are going to be forced to eat a significant amount of DOT damage, and shields aren't nearly as good as some players like to claim, especially on something like Magicka Necromancer (due to terrible sustain). Stamina builds shouldn't be able to simply spam a couple dodge rolls + a few seconds of sprint to suppress basically all damage in the game (Curse and potentially rolling through a ground AOE would be the only exceptions off the top of my head), and get LOS/distance in the process.

I'm not completely against the idea of some buffs for medium armor, but total DOT suppression on top of avoiding essentially all direct damage, CC, removing pre-existing roots, and potentially getting Major Expedition? Nah, that's too much.

Epicasballs

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I would be against such a change. Shields are taking a pretty significant hit this patch, as are two other primary forms of defense for magicka builds - Protective and Pirate Skeleton.

Given Magicka Necromancer's sustain issues, bar space limitations, and the nerfs to Harness Magicka, there's a really good chance I won't even be able to run any shields. If I end up being forced to run a defense 5 piece set, which seems kinda likely, the shields will end up too small to matter, and absolutely not be worth the resource cost.

If I have to eat all this DOT damage, why shouldn't you? Stamina builds already have superior mobility, and are more likely to be able to break range/LOS and get some breathing room. Sure, I have more healing options than you do, but it's not like I'll be able to stand around shrugging off all the damage, especially not with how bad Magicka Necromancer's sustain is (and that'll get worse if I end up having to run Fortified Brass or something next patch).

This is just spoken like someone who doesn't play a medium armor stam build at all.

Many magicka builds are going to be forced to eat a significant amount of DOT damage, and shields aren't nearly as good as some players like to claim, especially on something like Magicka Necromancer (due to terrible sustain). Stamina builds shouldn't be able to simply spam a couple dodge rolls + a few seconds of sprint to suppress basically all damage in the game (Curse and potentially rolling through a ground AOE would be the only exceptions off the top of my head), and get LOS/distance in the process.

I'm not completely against the idea of some buffs for medium armor, but total DOT suppression on top of avoiding essentially all direct damage, CC, removing pre-existing roots, and potentially getting Major Expedition? Nah, that's too much.

Read the rest of the forum we've whittled it down to 33% reduction not complete suppression. As in all good discussions concessions were made.

Jeezye

How about you dodgeroll the ability that applies the dot to you? Medium armor is design to proactively avoid taking damage and hits, not straight up tank it out like heavy does. Most of the dot abilities are hard to land due to dodgerolles anyways.

I see more of a problem with the newly buffed/introduced dots like entropy and soul trap which are undodgeable. Classic dots like sunfire, cripple, poison injection and bloodcraze can all be dodged. If you fail avoiding them, its only right to get punished by taking the damage.

master_vanargand

olsborg wrote: »

Epicasballs wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I dislike the idea of 100% dmg evasion. That’s just too powerful.

I would like the idea of sth like 50% dmg reduction for dmg over time while dodging.

I was just gonna suggest something like this aswell. 100% would be way too strong, 33% is more balanced imo. ZOS should really look into this tho, because medium armor shines in some situations, but are completely negated in others. This is on live, and dots is the main culprit, with Scalebreaker patch this problem for medium armor will just escalate to new heights.

I'd settle for 33% for 3 seconds following a dodge roll. Restrict it to a 5 piece medium passive.

I would restrict it to as long as you are actively dodging. If you are in the dodge animation and you are still actively dodging projectiles etc coming at you. This would actually make a certain medium armor set just abit stronger. Not saying this set would be fine then, it would still need further adjustment to be worthy of use.

Seriously?
You have comedian talent.

Epicasballs

Jeezye wrote: »

How about you dodgeroll the ability that applies the dot to you? Medium armor is design to proactively avoid taking damage and hits, not straight up tank it out like heavy does. Most of the dot abilities are hard to land due to dodgerolles anyways.

I see more of a problem with the newly buffed/introduced dots like entropy and soul trap which are undodgeable. Classic dots like sunfire, cripple, poison injection and bloodcraze can all be dodged. If you fail avoiding them, its only right to get punished by taking the damage.

True. But it's unrealistic to think you can roll every attack and put up an offense. You need offense windows and windows to heal and if you have 2-4 dots on you with a single 4 second vigor you're going to get roasted. Some amount of mitigation while roll dodging will help vigor do its intended job and heal you. Otherwise medium is going to get lit up. You're not always going to have a pocket healer.

Royalthought

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

I would be against such a change. Shields are taking a pretty significant hit this patch, as are two other primary forms of defense for magicka builds - Protective and Pirate Skeleton.

Given Magicka Necromancer's sustain issues, bar space limitations, and the nerfs to Harness Magicka, there's a really good chance I won't even be able to run any shields. If I end up being forced to run a defense 5 piece set, which seems kinda likely, the shields will end up too small to matter, and absolutely not be worth the resource cost.

If I have to eat all this DOT damage, why shouldn't you? Stamina builds already have superior mobility, and are more likely to be able to break range/LOS and get some breathing room. Sure, I have more healing options than you do, but it's not like I'll be able to stand around shrugging off all the damage, especially not with how bad Magicka Necromancer's sustain is (and that'll get worse if I end up having to run Fortified Brass or something next patch).

This is just spoken like someone who doesn't play a medium armor stam build at all.

Many magicka builds are going to be forced to eat a significant amount of DOT damage, and shields aren't nearly as good as some players like to claim, especially on something like Magicka Necromancer (due to terrible sustain). Stamina builds shouldn't be able to simply spam a couple dodge rolls + a few seconds of sprint to suppress basically all damage in the game (Curse and potentially rolling through a ground AOE would be the only exceptions off the top of my head), and get LOS/distance in the process.

I'm not completely against the idea of some buffs for medium armor, but total DOT suppression on top of avoiding essentially all direct damage, CC, removing pre-existing roots, and potentially getting Major Expedition? Nah, that's too much.

It's not only shields that light armor has. Its better healing and shields.

The shield changes were offset with vigor esq magic heals. Medium actually lost 2h HoT. Had it "offset" with buffed vigor heals, then they nerfed vigor leaving medium with less healing overall.

And let's not pretend like dodgeroll isn't available to light and heavy. The difference is when not dodgerolling, heavy has higher resistance and light has shields. Medium has nothing extra. So medium armor has to dodgeroll more. But shields and resistance arent punished by fatigue. Dodgerolls are.

Removing roots? Major expedition? RaT means that isn't exclusive to medium either.

As it stands it's shaping up to be another high resistance tank meta. Squishy players surviving off dodgeroll will often be free AP.

SodanTok

Something like this (not full suppression thats just OP) has to happen to make medium viable with this back and forth. Block, healing, mitigation even during bleed meta heavy always did it better than medium. Now they nerf Vigor because its strong on heavy armor DK or smth, its never gonna stop.
Now dodge, no heavy armor build can use it often and if some buffs to functionality were also tied to medium (remember stealth passive?) it would be even more medium thing. DoT mitigation also has the advantage of not really buffing nightblade, which are the one spec thats probably keeping medium down past 2 years.

Jeezye

Epicasballs wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

How about you dodgeroll the ability that applies the dot to you? Medium armor is design to proactively avoid taking damage and hits, not straight up tank it out like heavy does. Most of the dot abilities are hard to land due to dodgerolles anyways.

I see more of a problem with the newly buffed/introduced dots like entropy and soul trap which are undodgeable. Classic dots like sunfire, cripple, poison injection and bloodcraze can all be dodged. If you fail avoiding them, its only right to get punished by taking the damage.

True. But it's unrealistic to think you can roll every attack and put up an offense. You need offense windows and windows to heal and if you have 2-4 dots on you with a single 4 second vigor you're going to get roasted. Some amount of mitigation while roll dodging will help vigor do its intended job and heal you. Otherwise medium is going to get lit up. You're not always going to have a pocket healer.

TBH I don't even think the passive mitigation is that bad of medium armor. You definitly can't dodge everything, by no means, but my stamsorc has run medium for 2 years now and doesn'T struggle defensively. Dodge the obvious attacks, use defensive/utility class skills like cloak, streak, wings, ... to complement dodgerolls and you're fine.

It really all comes down to the popularity of the unavoidable dots, and I think especially entropy will be spammed A LOT.

John_Falstaff

@Jeezye , the pitfall is, the Soul Trap is undodgeable (and I guess unblockable). People will say if Entropy can, but Soul Trap alone is already hefty. Plus stamina can't purge them easily.

Epicasballs

Jeezye wrote: »

Epicasballs wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

How about you dodgeroll the ability that applies the dot to you? Medium armor is design to proactively avoid taking damage and hits, not straight up tank it out like heavy does. Most of the dot abilities are hard to land due to dodgerolles anyways.

I see more of a problem with the newly buffed/introduced dots like entropy and soul trap which are undodgeable. Classic dots like sunfire, cripple, poison injection and bloodcraze can all be dodged. If you fail avoiding them, its only right to get punished by taking the damage.

True. But it's unrealistic to think you can roll every attack and put up an offense. You need offense windows and windows to heal and if you have 2-4 dots on you with a single 4 second vigor you're going to get roasted. Some amount of mitigation while roll dodging will help vigor do its intended job and heal you. Otherwise medium is going to get lit up. You're not always going to have a pocket healer.

TBH I don't even think the passive mitigation is that bad of medium armor. You definitly can't dodge everything, by no means, but my stamsorc has run medium for 2 years now and doesn'T struggle defensively. Dodge the obvious attacks, use defensive/utility class skills like cloak, streak, wings, ... to complement dodgerolls and you're fine.

It really all comes down to the popularity of the unavoidable dots, and I think especially entropy will be spammed A LOT.

I agree. But currently we have a better vigor than the one going live and the hot from rally is being removed also. On top of unavoidable dots being added. Something has to be done.

Abhaya

SodanTok wrote: »

Something like this (not full suppression thats just OP) has to happen to make medium viable with this back and forth. Block, healing, mitigation even during bleed meta heavy always did it better than medium. Now they nerf Vigor because its strong on heavy armor DK or smth, its never gonna stop.
Now dodge, no heavy armor build can use it often and if some buffs to functionality were also tied to medium (remember stealth passive?) it would be even more medium thing. DoT mitigation also has the advantage of not really buffing nightblade, which are the one spec thats probably keeping medium down past 2 years.

Good ole heavy dk with major vitality popped making nerf posts with exaggerated tool tips.

olsborg

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Jeezye , the pitfall is, the Soul Trap is undodgeable (and I guess unblockable). People will say if Entropy can, but Soul Trap alone is already hefty. Plus stamina can't purge them easily.

2 ppl having soultrap on a medium armor player and its gonna be pretty rip for that guy unless they have a healer. Talking open world here.
If one skill (soultrap) has that kinda power that makes any such build think "*** i have to go full defence for 10s now or im toast" its too much of a counter, and that is just one of all the buffed dots.

Ragnaroek93

I don't like that idea, sounds more like a band aid fix for damage control and will probably not medium armor good. I want proper buffs (give Shuffle a hot or whatever) instead of this lunatic mess which they are doing right now.

katorga

olsborg wrote: »

Epicasballs wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I dislike the idea of 100% dmg evasion. That’s just too powerful.

I would like the idea of sth like 50% dmg reduction for dmg over time while dodging.

I was just gonna suggest something like this aswell. 100% would be way too strong, 33% is more balanced imo. ZOS should really look into this tho, because medium armor shines in some situations, but are completely negated in others. This is on live, and dots is the main culprit, with Scalebreaker patch this problem for medium armor will just escalate to new heights.

I'd settle for 33% for 3 seconds following a dodge roll. Restrict it to a 5 piece medium passive.

I would restrict it to as long as you are actively dodging. If you are in the dodge animation and you are still actively dodging projectiles etc coming at you. This would actually make a certain medium armor set just abit stronger. Not saying this set would be fine then, it would still need further adjustment to be worthy of use.

Does this set even function after they made the changes to dodge a few patches ago? This set was based on the old mechanic.

Davadin

the whole thread is nice but its confirmed 5.1.4 will be going live, there will be no more patches.

so it'll take weeks if not months to change.

forget it guys.


i love medium, been using it for a year now, but med is dead on the water in CP PvP in Scalebreaker.

I'm going back to my low-damage heavy, still sticking with 7th coz as DK at least we can pop it on demand.

Probably with Spriggan again just so all my DoTs reaaaaaallly seep in into ur armor

Barbaran

Didn't they buff vigor by 89% and then nerf it by 28%? Isn't that still a 61% buff?