Vigor on PTS

Ragnaroek93

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Vapirko

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Yeah this is crazy @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get some kinda dev statement on this? Normal builds are showing at best about a 6% increase in healing. Something really isn’t right. Medium armor is going to be trashed even more than it is now?

Insco851

Brilliant devs are brilliant

Really this could be seen a mile away... over buff to over nerf like ALWAYS.

Otherwise balance ensues and that’s not in the plans.

SirAndy

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k
Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...
Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Shorter duration, more (self) heal (per second), slightly increased cost (per second)

Ragnaroek93

Vapirko wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Yeah this is crazy @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get some kinda dev statement on this? Normal builds are showing at best about a 6% increase in healing. Something really isn’t right. Medium armor is going to be trashed even more than it is now?

This happens when you listen to some crybabies who cheese tooltips with Cyro keep buff, Mending, Vitality etc but never show up to test their actual trash builds in a realistic environment. Medium armor was far away from being op before the vigor nerf already but whatever...

eso_lags

SirAndy wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k
Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...
Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Shorter duration, more (self) heal (per second), slightly increased cost (per second)

SirAndy wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k
Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...
Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Shorter duration, more (self) heal (per second), slightly increased cost (per second)

Seems like a bad change. 200 more heal per second does not seem justified when its more expensive to keep up all the time and is losing the ability to heal others. There was no reason to change this skill and there was certainly no reason to nerf it. Especially when its the only aoe stamina heal. Seems like it needs more adjustment or they should just leave it alone.

Ragnaroek93

eso_lags wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k
Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...
Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Shorter duration, more (self) heal (per second), slightly increased cost (per second)

SirAndy wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k
Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...
Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Shorter duration, more (self) heal (per second), slightly increased cost (per second)

Seems like a bad change. 200 more heal per second does not seem justified when its more expensive to keep up all the time and is losing the ability to heal others. There was no reason to change this skill and there was certainly no reason to nerf it. Especially when its the only aoe stamina heal. Seems like it needs more adjustment or they should just leave it alone.

There were reasons to buff it after nerfing Rally and Momentum actually. This Vigor change isn't a buff, it's a joke.

MartiniDaniels

Vapirko wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Yeah this is crazy @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get some kinda dev statement on this? Normal builds are showing at best about a 6% increase in healing. Something really isn’t right. Medium armor is going to be trashed even more than it is now?

Well, I guess Gilliam decided to eliminate not only magicka rivals to stamblade but stamina ones as well
I mean if you approach in cloak those dots is not a big issue and then some combo with onslaught (surprise, stamblade has best ST direct damage abilities to synergize with new onslaught) and withdraw to shade while opponents have both nerfed defenses and heals. Oh and revealing flare got 3x cost increase, just saying. And camouflaged hunter is guaranteed proc from cloak still. And mutagen removed, while rapid regen will hardly help against burst from cloak. And healing ward nerfed back. And shields nerfed. And bleeds arguably nerfed. And WW nerfed.

ecru

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

lol this is a joke right?

i assumed it would still heal for more because of it's initial buff. what's the hps of regeneration on PTS compared to vigor? i can't log in and check atm.

Insco851

ecru wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

lol this is a joke right?

i assumed it would still heal for more because of it's initial buff. what's the hps of regeneration on PTS compared to vigor? i can't log in and check atm.

RR > Vigor for sure

Over nerfed stam heals. Influencing more heavy...

eso_lags

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k
Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...
Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Shorter duration, more (self) heal (per second), slightly increased cost (per second)

SirAndy wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k
Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...
Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Shorter duration, more (self) heal (per second), slightly increased cost (per second)

Seems like a bad change. 200 more heal per second does not seem justified when its more expensive to keep up all the time and is losing the ability to heal others. There was no reason to change this skill and there was certainly no reason to nerf it. Especially when its the only aoe stamina heal. Seems like it needs more adjustment or they should just leave it alone.

There were reasons to buff it after nerfing Rally and Momentum actually. This Vigor change isn't a buff, it's a joke.

true

FearlessOne_2014

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Yeah this is crazy @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get some kinda dev statement on this? Normal builds are showing at best about a 6% increase in healing. Something really isn’t right. Medium armor is going to be trashed even more than it is now?

Well, I guess Gilliam decided to eliminate not only magicka rivals to stamblade but stamina ones as well
I mean if you approach in cloak those dots is not a big issue and then some combo with onslaught (surprise, stamblade has best ST direct damage abilities to synergize with new onslaught) and withdraw to shade while opponents have both nerfed defenses and heals. Oh and revealing flare got 3x cost increase, just saying. And camouflaged hunter is guaranteed proc from cloak still. And mutagen removed, while rapid regen will hardly help against burst from cloak. And healing ward nerfed back. And shields nerfed. And bleeds arguably nerfed. And WW nerfed.

Yup Nightblades will always be ZOSes favorites.

Ragnaroek93

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Yeah this is crazy @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get some kinda dev statement on this? Normal builds are showing at best about a 6% increase in healing. Something really isn’t right. Medium armor is going to be trashed even more than it is now?

Well, I guess Gilliam decided to eliminate not only magicka rivals to stamblade but stamina ones as well
I mean if you approach in cloak those dots is not a big issue and then some combo with onslaught (surprise, stamblade has best ST direct damage abilities to synergize with new onslaught) and withdraw to shade while opponents have both nerfed defenses and heals. Oh and revealing flare got 3x cost increase, just saying. And camouflaged hunter is guaranteed proc from cloak still. And mutagen removed, while rapid regen will hardly help against burst from cloak. And healing ward nerfed back. And shields nerfed. And bleeds arguably nerfed. And WW nerfed.

Don't worry about stam Nbs, I main one and I did already perform better on classes which I don't play on live server before the Vigor nerf. Good luck fighting against a magplar/magdk with Nb now.

MartiniDaniels

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Yeah this is crazy @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get some kinda dev statement on this? Normal builds are showing at best about a 6% increase in healing. Something really isn’t right. Medium armor is going to be trashed even more than it is now?

Well, I guess Gilliam decided to eliminate not only magicka rivals to stamblade but stamina ones as well
I mean if you approach in cloak those dots is not a big issue and then some combo with onslaught (surprise, stamblade has best ST direct damage abilities to synergize with new onslaught) and withdraw to shade while opponents have both nerfed defenses and heals. Oh and revealing flare got 3x cost increase, just saying. And camouflaged hunter is guaranteed proc from cloak still. And mutagen removed, while rapid regen will hardly help against burst from cloak. And healing ward nerfed back. And shields nerfed. And bleeds arguably nerfed. And WW nerfed.

Don't worry about stam Nbs, I main one and I did already perform better on classes which I don't play on live server before the Vigor nerf. Good luck fighting against a magplar/magdk with Nb now.

Templar's LD is simply hard counter to direct damage so this has nothing to do with nerf of vigor. I think it's quite obvious that when protection and heals are nerfed best way to mitigate damage is to avoid it completely via cloak. Yeah once detected, NB will be vulnerable, but I doubt you will have problem bursting down people with onslaught combo in few GCD and then just press one button to go back to shade and roll dodge into cloak.
Compare it to what other stamina classes will face, when all mages will instantly lash you with new dots on sight...

Ragnaroek93

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Yeah this is crazy @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get some kinda dev statement on this? Normal builds are showing at best about a 6% increase in healing. Something really isn’t right. Medium armor is going to be trashed even more than it is now?

Well, I guess Gilliam decided to eliminate not only magicka rivals to stamblade but stamina ones as well
I mean if you approach in cloak those dots is not a big issue and then some combo with onslaught (surprise, stamblade has best ST direct damage abilities to synergize with new onslaught) and withdraw to shade while opponents have both nerfed defenses and heals. Oh and revealing flare got 3x cost increase, just saying. And camouflaged hunter is guaranteed proc from cloak still. And mutagen removed, while rapid regen will hardly help against burst from cloak. And healing ward nerfed back. And shields nerfed. And bleeds arguably nerfed. And WW nerfed.

Don't worry about stam Nbs, I main one and I did already perform better on classes which I don't play on live server before the Vigor nerf. Good luck fighting against a magplar/magdk with Nb now.

Templar's LD is simply hard counter to direct damage so this has nothing to do with nerf of vigor. I think it's quite obvious that when protection and heals are nerfed best way to mitigate damage is to avoid it completely via cloak. Yeah once detected, NB will be vulnerable, but I doubt you will have problem bursting down people with onslaught combo in few GCD and then just press one button to go back to shade and roll dodge into cloak.
Compare it to what other stamina classes will face, when all mages will instantly lash you with new dots on sight...

Stam Nb is better than the other classes in med armor for sure but nowhere close to where magplar and magdk is right now (which nothing is after the PTS changes). I don't want magplar/magdk see nerfed, I want the rest buffed actually. This patch is just outright horrible, especially for solo pvp.

Murador178

Actually vigor could stay like this (or a small buff) and we just give shuffle a hot over 20 sec like the old rallye

@MartiniDaniels dots will tick on when getting visible again. When dueling magplars on the pts like Tellorn/cyndis I always got 10k entropy or vampires bane in my recap. Its not even worth it to jab alot except for detection(hello major evasion). Of course u can play a stamblade with 1.3k mag regen and hit even more like a wet noodle. Stamblade dps is pretty low anways and people getting bursted by assasins' will + incap are potatoes. Both spells got a delay and if u get hit by both in a row without blocking/rolling, then thats ur fault and not a balance problem.

Nerftheforums

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Yeah this is crazy @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get some kinda dev statement on this? Normal builds are showing at best about a 6% increase in healing. Something really isn’t right. Medium armor is going to be trashed even more than it is now?

Well, I guess Gilliam decided to eliminate not only magicka rivals to stamblade but stamina ones as well
I mean if you approach in cloak those dots is not a big issue and then some combo with onslaught (surprise, stamblade has best ST direct damage abilities to synergize with new onslaught) and withdraw to shade while opponents have both nerfed defenses and heals. Oh and revealing flare got 3x cost increase, just saying. And camouflaged hunter is guaranteed proc from cloak still. And mutagen removed, while rapid regen will hardly help against burst from cloak. And healing ward nerfed back. And shields nerfed. And bleeds arguably nerfed. And WW nerfed.

Don't worry about stam Nbs, I main one and I did already perform better on classes which I don't play on live server before the Vigor nerf. Good luck fighting against a magplar/magdk with Nb now.

Templar's LD is simply hard counter to direct damage so this has nothing to do with nerf of vigor. I think it's quite obvious that when protection and heals are nerfed best way to mitigate damage is to avoid it completely via cloak. Yeah once detected, NB will be vulnerable, but I doubt you will have problem bursting down people with onslaught combo in few GCD and then just press one button to go back to shade and roll dodge into cloak.
Compare it to what other stamina classes will face, when all mages will instantly lash you with new dots on sight...

Stam Nb is better than the other classes in med armor for sure but nowhere close to where magplar and magdk is right now (which nothing is after the PTS changes). I don't want magplar/magdk see nerfed, I want the rest buffed actually. This patch is just outright horrible, especially for solo pvp.

What patch hasn't made the situation worse for soloers from morrowind to today? Honestly the only patch I remeber that I felt the situation improved for us was cwc, and that's only because of the nerf to proc sets. As far as I can remeber, every patch they added/removed a little soemthing that resulted in a worse solo player experience.

olsborg

Vigor isnt much different on live vs pts atm, i mean, its just slightly more bursty heal and slightly cheaper, wich would be fine if not for the fact that the HoT from rally is gone and theres gonna be so many dots that are in the 20-30k tooltip dmg that you simply can not heal through anymore, are you trying to murder stamina(medium armor) gameplay ZOS? because thats what you are doing atm..

For comparison my magsorcs rapid regen heals me for 23k health over 5s, my stamblades vigor heals me for 13k over 4s. Add in the fact that this is basicly the only heal (apart from rally wich is available every ~17 seconds) that my stamblade has. My sorc can shield (lol nerfed too) and use healward and dark exhange.

Aedaryl

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Yeah this is crazy @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get some kinda dev statement on this? Normal builds are showing at best about a 6% increase in healing. Something really isn’t right. Medium armor is going to be trashed even more than it is now?

This happens when you listen to some crybabies who cheese tooltips with Cyro keep buff, Mending, Vitality etc but never show up to test their actual trash builds in a realistic environment. Medium armor was far away from being op before the vigor nerf already but whatever...

No.

Vigor PTS 5.1 was completly overpowered.

It's not tooltip warriors. Some of course cheesed it up which is stupid, but there is classes with a lot of healing modifier hwo could get complety absurd vigor tooltip with meta builds. A stamDK was litterally unkilable (still unkilable on live if not outnumbered).

Actual 5.3 vigor is balanced like shield. Meaning underperforming.

Vigor should be buffed to compensate the lost of rally HoT.

Shield should get buffed to be actually sustainable.

Rikumaru

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Yeah this is crazy @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get some kinda dev statement on this? Normal builds are showing at best about a 6% increase in healing. Something really isn’t right. Medium armor is going to be trashed even more than it is now?

This happens when you listen to some crybabies who cheese tooltips with Cyro keep buff, Mending, Vitality etc but never show up to test their actual trash builds in a realistic environment. Medium armor was far away from being op before the vigor nerf already but whatever...

No.

Vigor PTS 5.1 was completly overpowered.

It's not tooltip warriors. Some of course cheesed it up which is stupid, but there is classes with a lot of healing modifier hwo could get complety absurd vigor tooltip with meta builds. A stamDK was litterally unkilable (still unkilable on live if not outnumbered).

Actual 5.3 vigor is balanced like shield. Meaning underperforming.

Vigor should be buffed to compensate the lost of rally HoT.

Shield should get buffed to be actually sustainable.

Vigor before the nerfs on PTS was roughly a 50% buff compared to live. Rally lost its HoT and all the good heavy sets received nerfs. This pretty much resulted in a decent net increase in healing. But do you know what made that balanced?

All single target DoTs being buffed. Soul trap and entropy becoming strong DoTS. Rapid regen becoming magicka vigor and healing ward being buffed. Sure magicka classes got their shields nerfed pretty hard (which they should not have been with the exception of harness magicka) but in return they got magicka vigor.

What the hell can stamina builds do now? They don't have a single other way to actually survive. Stamina builds are just gonna get DoTed up and will drop dead 10 seconds later because they cannot outheal the DoTs let alone outheal the DoTs with direct damage from the enemy coming in. It's just complete madness.

Ragnaroek93

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Yeah this is crazy @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get some kinda dev statement on this? Normal builds are showing at best about a 6% increase in healing. Something really isn’t right. Medium armor is going to be trashed even more than it is now?

This happens when you listen to some crybabies who cheese tooltips with Cyro keep buff, Mending, Vitality etc but never show up to test their actual trash builds in a realistic environment. Medium armor was far away from being op before the vigor nerf already but whatever...

No.

Vigor PTS 5.1 was completly overpowered.

It's not tooltip warriors. Some of course cheesed it up which is stupid, but there is classes with a lot of healing modifier hwo could get complety absurd vigor tooltip with meta builds. A stamDK was litterally unkilable (still unkilable on live if not outnumbered).

Actual 5.3 vigor is balanced like shield. Meaning underperforming.

Vigor should be buffed to compensate the lost of rally HoT.

Shield should get buffed to be actually sustainable.

And medium armor was supposed to be buffed, yet the buff got mostly reverted after 1 week on PTS and now they trash their healing as well (which is already underperforming). I hope that this patch goes to the live server as it is right now, just to make everyone realise how bad this patch actually is.

Iskiab

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Yeah this is crazy @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get some kinda dev statement on this? Normal builds are showing at best about a 6% increase in healing. Something really isn’t right. Medium armor is going to be trashed even more than it is now?

Well, I guess Gilliam decided to eliminate not only magicka rivals to stamblade but stamina ones as well
I mean if you approach in cloak those dots is not a big issue and then some combo with onslaught (surprise, stamblade has best ST direct damage abilities to synergize with new onslaught) and withdraw to shade while opponents have both nerfed defenses and heals. Oh and revealing flare got 3x cost increase, just saying. And camouflaged hunter is guaranteed proc from cloak still. And mutagen removed, while rapid regen will hardly help against burst from cloak. And healing ward nerfed back. And shields nerfed. And bleeds arguably nerfed. And WW nerfed.

Don't worry about stam Nbs, I main one and I did already perform better on classes which I don't play on live server before the Vigor nerf. Good luck fighting against a magplar/magdk with Nb now.

Templar's LD is simply hard counter to direct damage so this has nothing to do with nerf of vigor. I think it's quite obvious that when protection and heals are nerfed best way to mitigate damage is to avoid it completely via cloak. Yeah once detected, NB will be vulnerable, but I doubt you will have problem bursting down people with onslaught combo in few GCD and then just press one button to go back to shade and roll dodge into cloak.
Compare it to what other stamina classes will face, when all mages will instantly lash you with new dots on sight...

Stam Nb is better than the other classes in med armor for sure but nowhere close to where magplar and magdk is right now (which nothing is after the PTS changes). I don't want magplar/magdk see nerfed, I want the rest buffed actually. This patch is just outright horrible, especially for solo pvp.

What patch hasn't made the situation worse for soloers from morrowind to today? Honestly the only patch I remeber that I felt the situation improved for us was cwc, and that's only because of the nerf to proc sets. As far as I can remeber, every patch they added/removed a little soemthing that resulted in a worse solo player experience.

What are you talking about.

If you’re purely solo echoing vigor heals for more on PTS then live. Solo players have nothing to complain about.

susmitds

Iskiab wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Yeah this is crazy @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get some kinda dev statement on this? Normal builds are showing at best about a 6% increase in healing. Something really isn’t right. Medium armor is going to be trashed even more than it is now?

Well, I guess Gilliam decided to eliminate not only magicka rivals to stamblade but stamina ones as well
I mean if you approach in cloak those dots is not a big issue and then some combo with onslaught (surprise, stamblade has best ST direct damage abilities to synergize with new onslaught) and withdraw to shade while opponents have both nerfed defenses and heals. Oh and revealing flare got 3x cost increase, just saying. And camouflaged hunter is guaranteed proc from cloak still. And mutagen removed, while rapid regen will hardly help against burst from cloak. And healing ward nerfed back. And shields nerfed. And bleeds arguably nerfed. And WW nerfed.

Don't worry about stam Nbs, I main one and I did already perform better on classes which I don't play on live server before the Vigor nerf. Good luck fighting against a magplar/magdk with Nb now.

Templar's LD is simply hard counter to direct damage so this has nothing to do with nerf of vigor. I think it's quite obvious that when protection and heals are nerfed best way to mitigate damage is to avoid it completely via cloak. Yeah once detected, NB will be vulnerable, but I doubt you will have problem bursting down people with onslaught combo in few GCD and then just press one button to go back to shade and roll dodge into cloak.
Compare it to what other stamina classes will face, when all mages will instantly lash you with new dots on sight...

Stam Nb is better than the other classes in med armor for sure but nowhere close to where magplar and magdk is right now (which nothing is after the PTS changes). I don't want magplar/magdk see nerfed, I want the rest buffed actually. This patch is just outright horrible, especially for solo pvp.

What patch hasn't made the situation worse for soloers from morrowind to today? Honestly the only patch I remeber that I felt the situation improved for us was cwc, and that's only because of the nerf to proc sets. As far as I can remeber, every patch they added/removed a little soemthing that resulted in a worse solo player experience.

What are you talking about.

If you’re purely solo echoing vigor heals for more on PTS then live. Solo players have nothing to complain about.

@Iskiab Nope, Echoing got a 40% nerf in HPS.

Ragnaroek93

Iskiab wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Yeah this is crazy @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get some kinda dev statement on this? Normal builds are showing at best about a 6% increase in healing. Something really isn’t right. Medium armor is going to be trashed even more than it is now?

Well, I guess Gilliam decided to eliminate not only magicka rivals to stamblade but stamina ones as well
I mean if you approach in cloak those dots is not a big issue and then some combo with onslaught (surprise, stamblade has best ST direct damage abilities to synergize with new onslaught) and withdraw to shade while opponents have both nerfed defenses and heals. Oh and revealing flare got 3x cost increase, just saying. And camouflaged hunter is guaranteed proc from cloak still. And mutagen removed, while rapid regen will hardly help against burst from cloak. And healing ward nerfed back. And shields nerfed. And bleeds arguably nerfed. And WW nerfed.

Don't worry about stam Nbs, I main one and I did already perform better on classes which I don't play on live server before the Vigor nerf. Good luck fighting against a magplar/magdk with Nb now.

Templar's LD is simply hard counter to direct damage so this has nothing to do with nerf of vigor. I think it's quite obvious that when protection and heals are nerfed best way to mitigate damage is to avoid it completely via cloak. Yeah once detected, NB will be vulnerable, but I doubt you will have problem bursting down people with onslaught combo in few GCD and then just press one button to go back to shade and roll dodge into cloak.
Compare it to what other stamina classes will face, when all mages will instantly lash you with new dots on sight...

Stam Nb is better than the other classes in med armor for sure but nowhere close to where magplar and magdk is right now (which nothing is after the PTS changes). I don't want magplar/magdk see nerfed, I want the rest buffed actually. This patch is just outright horrible, especially for solo pvp.

What patch hasn't made the situation worse for soloers from morrowind to today? Honestly the only patch I remeber that I felt the situation improved for us was cwc, and that's only because of the nerf to proc sets. As far as I can remeber, every patch they added/removed a little soemthing that resulted in a worse solo player experience.

What are you talking about.

If you’re purely solo echoing vigor heals for more on PTS then live. Solo players have nothing to complain about.

Yeah and Rally doesn't have a hot anymore. Is it so difficult to understand that stam lost healing?

Iskiab

susmitds wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Yeah this is crazy @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get some kinda dev statement on this? Normal builds are showing at best about a 6% increase in healing. Something really isn’t right. Medium armor is going to be trashed even more than it is now?

Well, I guess Gilliam decided to eliminate not only magicka rivals to stamblade but stamina ones as well
I mean if you approach in cloak those dots is not a big issue and then some combo with onslaught (surprise, stamblade has best ST direct damage abilities to synergize with new onslaught) and withdraw to shade while opponents have both nerfed defenses and heals. Oh and revealing flare got 3x cost increase, just saying. And camouflaged hunter is guaranteed proc from cloak still. And mutagen removed, while rapid regen will hardly help against burst from cloak. And healing ward nerfed back. And shields nerfed. And bleeds arguably nerfed. And WW nerfed.

Don't worry about stam Nbs, I main one and I did already perform better on classes which I don't play on live server before the Vigor nerf. Good luck fighting against a magplar/magdk with Nb now.

Templar's LD is simply hard counter to direct damage so this has nothing to do with nerf of vigor. I think it's quite obvious that when protection and heals are nerfed best way to mitigate damage is to avoid it completely via cloak. Yeah once detected, NB will be vulnerable, but I doubt you will have problem bursting down people with onslaught combo in few GCD and then just press one button to go back to shade and roll dodge into cloak.
Compare it to what other stamina classes will face, when all mages will instantly lash you with new dots on sight...

Stam Nb is better than the other classes in med armor for sure but nowhere close to where magplar and magdk is right now (which nothing is after the PTS changes). I don't want magplar/magdk see nerfed, I want the rest buffed actually. This patch is just outright horrible, especially for solo pvp.

What patch hasn't made the situation worse for soloers from morrowind to today? Honestly the only patch I remeber that I felt the situation improved for us was cwc, and that's only because of the nerf to proc sets. As far as I can remeber, every patch they added/removed a little soemthing that resulted in a worse solo player experience.

What are you talking about.

If you’re purely solo echoing vigor heals for more on PTS then live. Solo players have nothing to complain about.

@Iskiab Nope, Echoing got a 40% nerf in HPS.

If someone’s purely a solo player they’d never run echoing vigor.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Yeah this is crazy @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get some kinda dev statement on this? Normal builds are showing at best about a 6% increase in healing. Something really isn’t right. Medium armor is going to be trashed even more than it is now?

Well, I guess Gilliam decided to eliminate not only magicka rivals to stamblade but stamina ones as well
I mean if you approach in cloak those dots is not a big issue and then some combo with onslaught (surprise, stamblade has best ST direct damage abilities to synergize with new onslaught) and withdraw to shade while opponents have both nerfed defenses and heals. Oh and revealing flare got 3x cost increase, just saying. And camouflaged hunter is guaranteed proc from cloak still. And mutagen removed, while rapid regen will hardly help against burst from cloak. And healing ward nerfed back. And shields nerfed. And bleeds arguably nerfed. And WW nerfed.

Don't worry about stam Nbs, I main one and I did already perform better on classes which I don't play on live server before the Vigor nerf. Good luck fighting against a magplar/magdk with Nb now.

Templar's LD is simply hard counter to direct damage so this has nothing to do with nerf of vigor. I think it's quite obvious that when protection and heals are nerfed best way to mitigate damage is to avoid it completely via cloak. Yeah once detected, NB will be vulnerable, but I doubt you will have problem bursting down people with onslaught combo in few GCD and then just press one button to go back to shade and roll dodge into cloak.
Compare it to what other stamina classes will face, when all mages will instantly lash you with new dots on sight...

Stam Nb is better than the other classes in med armor for sure but nowhere close to where magplar and magdk is right now (which nothing is after the PTS changes). I don't want magplar/magdk see nerfed, I want the rest buffed actually. This patch is just outright horrible, especially for solo pvp.

What patch hasn't made the situation worse for soloers from morrowind to today? Honestly the only patch I remeber that I felt the situation improved for us was cwc, and that's only because of the nerf to proc sets. As far as I can remeber, every patch they added/removed a little soemthing that resulted in a worse solo player experience.

What are you talking about.

If you’re purely solo echoing vigor heals for more on PTS then live. Solo players have nothing to complain about.

Yeah and Rally doesn't have a hot anymore. Is it so difficult to understand that stam lost healing?

Sure, but this is a vigor thread. Not all players are 2h, the vigor changes will primarily hit group stam play.

Murador178

Iskiab wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Yeah this is crazy @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get some kinda dev statement on this? Normal builds are showing at best about a 6% increase in healing. Something really isn’t right. Medium armor is going to be trashed even more than it is now?

Well, I guess Gilliam decided to eliminate not only magicka rivals to stamblade but stamina ones as well
I mean if you approach in cloak those dots is not a big issue and then some combo with onslaught (surprise, stamblade has best ST direct damage abilities to synergize with new onslaught) and withdraw to shade while opponents have both nerfed defenses and heals. Oh and revealing flare got 3x cost increase, just saying. And camouflaged hunter is guaranteed proc from cloak still. And mutagen removed, while rapid regen will hardly help against burst from cloak. And healing ward nerfed back. And shields nerfed. And bleeds arguably nerfed. And WW nerfed.

Don't worry about stam Nbs, I main one and I did already perform better on classes which I don't play on live server before the Vigor nerf. Good luck fighting against a magplar/magdk with Nb now.

Templar's LD is simply hard counter to direct damage so this has nothing to do with nerf of vigor. I think it's quite obvious that when protection and heals are nerfed best way to mitigate damage is to avoid it completely via cloak. Yeah once detected, NB will be vulnerable, but I doubt you will have problem bursting down people with onslaught combo in few GCD and then just press one button to go back to shade and roll dodge into cloak.
Compare it to what other stamina classes will face, when all mages will instantly lash you with new dots on sight...

Stam Nb is better than the other classes in med armor for sure but nowhere close to where magplar and magdk is right now (which nothing is after the PTS changes). I don't want magplar/magdk see nerfed, I want the rest buffed actually. This patch is just outright horrible, especially for solo pvp.

What patch hasn't made the situation worse for soloers from morrowind to today? Honestly the only patch I remeber that I felt the situation improved for us was cwc, and that's only because of the nerf to proc sets. As far as I can remeber, every patch they added/removed a little soemthing that resulted in a worse solo player experience.

What are you talking about.

If you’re purely solo echoing vigor heals for more on PTS then live. Solo players have nothing to complain about.

@Iskiab Nope, Echoing got a 40% nerf in HPS.

If someone’s purely a solo player they’d never run echoing vigor.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Yeah this is crazy @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get some kinda dev statement on this? Normal builds are showing at best about a 6% increase in healing. Something really isn’t right. Medium armor is going to be trashed even more than it is now?

Well, I guess Gilliam decided to eliminate not only magicka rivals to stamblade but stamina ones as well
I mean if you approach in cloak those dots is not a big issue and then some combo with onslaught (surprise, stamblade has best ST direct damage abilities to synergize with new onslaught) and withdraw to shade while opponents have both nerfed defenses and heals. Oh and revealing flare got 3x cost increase, just saying. And camouflaged hunter is guaranteed proc from cloak still. And mutagen removed, while rapid regen will hardly help against burst from cloak. And healing ward nerfed back. And shields nerfed. And bleeds arguably nerfed. And WW nerfed.

Don't worry about stam Nbs, I main one and I did already perform better on classes which I don't play on live server before the Vigor nerf. Good luck fighting against a magplar/magdk with Nb now.

Templar's LD is simply hard counter to direct damage so this has nothing to do with nerf of vigor. I think it's quite obvious that when protection and heals are nerfed best way to mitigate damage is to avoid it completely via cloak. Yeah once detected, NB will be vulnerable, but I doubt you will have problem bursting down people with onslaught combo in few GCD and then just press one button to go back to shade and roll dodge into cloak.
Compare it to what other stamina classes will face, when all mages will instantly lash you with new dots on sight...

Stam Nb is better than the other classes in med armor for sure but nowhere close to where magplar and magdk is right now (which nothing is after the PTS changes). I don't want magplar/magdk see nerfed, I want the rest buffed actually. This patch is just outright horrible, especially for solo pvp.

What patch hasn't made the situation worse for soloers from morrowind to today? Honestly the only patch I remeber that I felt the situation improved for us was cwc, and that's only because of the nerf to proc sets. As far as I can remeber, every patch they added/removed a little soemthing that resulted in a worse solo player experience.

What are you talking about.

If you’re purely solo echoing vigor heals for more on PTS then live. Solo players have nothing to complain about.

Yeah and Rally doesn't have a hot anymore. Is it so difficult to understand that stam lost healing?

Sure, but this is a vigor thread. Not all players are 2h, the vigor changes will primarily hit group stam play.

Did u even look at the tooltip - u get a very slight increase on the per tick healing but lose one out of 5 ticks. So ur are definetely losing healing since nobody ever has near 100% uptime on vigor or u will lose damage. Its clearly a nerf even so not a very big one. And 95% of stamina builds are using 2 heal rallye. Ontop of that dots got buffed quite alot. Heavy prob still will be okay but medium builds will disappear.

I think they should put vigor inbetween of the two pts patches and give shuffle a small hot ontop.

Insco851

What I wanna know is how zos comes up with these ideas?

5.1.0 - lets buff dots and heals to compensate, nerf shields further.

5.1.4 - ACTUALLY- lets nerf STAM heals... keep dots the same and leave RR/Mut to compensate for the shield nerf.

5 weeks:
Mag
Sustain issues for mag shield stacking.
Mag gets stronger hots if they run resto.
Shields take another nerf.
Load up the new OP dots!

Stam
Vigor nerfed from live.
Team heals from vigor gone.
Rally hot gone.
Rally burst stronger sooner.
Bleeds nerfed
Load up on dots and 2h ult!

Zero rhyme or reason.

TheHsN

DOTs and AOE are hitting like a crazy on the PTS... You cant even move because of them... All the are is getting RED in a second... And you cant jump over them... So Vigor Needs BUFF and Rally Needs REVERT....

How you can survive in all those DOTS and AOE impossible...

@ZOS_GinaBruno You need do something about it... We are dying while walking arround just

DocFrost72

Iskiab wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k

Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...

Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Yeah this is crazy @ZOS_GinaBruno can we get some kinda dev statement on this? Normal builds are showing at best about a 6% increase in healing. Something really isn’t right. Medium armor is going to be trashed even more than it is now?

Well, I guess Gilliam decided to eliminate not only magicka rivals to stamblade but stamina ones as well
I mean if you approach in cloak those dots is not a big issue and then some combo with onslaught (surprise, stamblade has best ST direct damage abilities to synergize with new onslaught) and withdraw to shade while opponents have both nerfed defenses and heals. Oh and revealing flare got 3x cost increase, just saying. And camouflaged hunter is guaranteed proc from cloak still. And mutagen removed, while rapid regen will hardly help against burst from cloak. And healing ward nerfed back. And shields nerfed. And bleeds arguably nerfed. And WW nerfed.

Don't worry about stam Nbs, I main one and I did already perform better on classes which I don't play on live server before the Vigor nerf. Good luck fighting against a magplar/magdk with Nb now.

Templar's LD is simply hard counter to direct damage so this has nothing to do with nerf of vigor. I think it's quite obvious that when protection and heals are nerfed best way to mitigate damage is to avoid it completely via cloak. Yeah once detected, NB will be vulnerable, but I doubt you will have problem bursting down people with onslaught combo in few GCD and then just press one button to go back to shade and roll dodge into cloak.
Compare it to what other stamina classes will face, when all mages will instantly lash you with new dots on sight...

Stam Nb is better than the other classes in med armor for sure but nowhere close to where magplar and magdk is right now (which nothing is after the PTS changes). I don't want magplar/magdk see nerfed, I want the rest buffed actually. This patch is just outright horrible, especially for solo pvp.

What patch hasn't made the situation worse for soloers from morrowind to today? Honestly the only patch I remeber that I felt the situation improved for us was cwc, and that's only because of the nerf to proc sets. As far as I can remeber, every patch they added/removed a little soemthing that resulted in a worse solo player experience.

What are you talking about.

If you’re purely solo echoing vigor heals for more on PTS then live. Solo players have nothing to complain about.

Actually, I have much to complain about.

3.160/5=632 stamina per tick.
2.666/4= 666.5 stamina per tick.

(From above tooltips)

Duration cut by a second.

Healing raised 3-5%.

I'd rather have vigor from live. It is a big, fat, unforgiving nerf to solo pve. I have less to complain about than solo stamina pvpers, that much is totally true.

Edit: I reread it and I have to ask; why do you think echoing does more HPS on pts than live? Or do you mean total healing?

Own

SirAndy wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

My tooltip on live server: 12,4k
Tooltip on pts: 10,7k
Glad to see that medium armor got compensated for the nerf to Rally... oh wait...
Meanwhile dots are in the 30k tooltip territory

Shorter duration, more (self) heal (per second), slightly increased cost (per second)

HPS loss if you include rally heal nerf. Also total cost increase and more time spent casting vigor.

Bad change for the single target/solo morph of vigor

Ragnaroek93

Still waiting for an explanation from ZOS or from the classreps why they first try to buff medium armor and then just ruin medium armor even more by nerfing the two heals which it relies on after heavily buffing dot damage which already softcountered medium builds. Medium wasn't even allowed to be meta for one single freaking patch since Dark Brotherhood. This isn't balance, this isn't perfect imbalance, this is just pathetic. The last time I felt this weak on a med build was before we got any stamina class morphs.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam