Please, enlighten this Brigadier

ArchMikem

Ive PvP'd for a couple years now. I've picked up on things, defeated thousands. But i absolutely cannot fathom how so many people never run out of resources, always break free, mitigate the hell out of attacks, constantly self heal, never get snared, AND turn around to lay waste to their attackers, all in the same build, acting like its the easiest thing to pull off.

Just how.

Is it like some kind of PvP fight club? First rule is you dont talk about Build Club?

Metemsycosis

I'll say it again.
There are passive/ active defenses and proactive/reactive defenses.

Builds with more passive + proactive defenses have an easier time defending oneself, once engaged. Humans are flawed, we make mistakes. And we are more likely to make them in the spontaneous engagements of a battlefield. There will be no
ward spam or rally spam or breath of life spam to save you from a truly good player or set of players. These active/reactive defenses are strong but they require gcd and resources. On the other hand, having high resistance, high health and health recovery, high speed does not require any resources or gcd and yet each mechanism can greatly reduce threats and mitigate damage.

A build with strong passive/reactive defenses does not have to worry about sustain as much with regards to their defenses, therefore that player can focus more on proper positioning and landing damage. If you are constantly breath of life spamming how will you come off your back foot and counter attack? If your character can take a couple hits before needing to reapply a heal or a ward then you have opened your offensive window.

My guess is such players you have faced have builds with strong passive/proactive defenses and an offensive set plus experience with the combos of their class.

ATomiX69

I mean the builds and even CP distribution of almost all the meta setups are out there.
Its not like there are secret sets, that no one but a few chosen ones have discovered yet.
Gotta face the truth that some people are more talented and/or put more time into playing solo and just learned the drill how to utilize their builds better, oh and dont forget cheat engine (/s).

ChunkyCat

Officers asking Enlisted how things are done.

Classic.

Iskiab

Metemsycosis wrote: »

I'll say it again.
There are passive/ active defenses and proactive/reactive defenses.

Builds with more passive + proactive defenses have an easier time defending oneself, once engaged. Humans are flawed, we make mistakes. And we are more likely to make them in the spontaneous engagements of a battlefield. There will be no
ward spam or rally spam or breath of life spam to save you from a truly good player or set of players. These active/reactive defenses are strong but they require gcd and resources. On the other hand, having high resistance, high health and health recovery, high speed does not require any resources or gcd and yet each mechanism can greatly reduce threats and mitigate damage.

A build with strong passive/reactive defenses does not have to worry about sustain as much with regards to their defenses, therefore that player can focus more on proper positioning and landing damage. If you are constantly breath of life spamming how will you come off your back foot and counter attack? If your character can take a couple hits before needing to reapply a heal or a ward then you have opened your offensive window.

My guess is such players you have faced have builds with strong passive/proactive defenses and an offensive set plus experience with the combos of their class.

TLDR: Your build is going to suck if it’s glass canon, if you need sustain spec for it, use abilities proactively - especially things like shield and forward momentum. Oh and use immov pots.

KillsAllElves

ArchMikem wrote: »

Ive PvP'd for a couple years now. I've picked up on things, defeated thousands. But i absolutely cannot fathom how so many people never run out of resources, always break free, mitigate the hell out of attacks, constantly self heal, never get snared, AND turn around to lay waste to their attackers, all in the same build, acting like its the easiest thing to pull off.

Just how.

Is it like some kind of PvP fight club? First rule is you dont talk about Build Club?

Too many players running around trying to be a proto fake me out tank that can deal too much damage. If youre building high resistances take your ass to a trial.

Too many players running around with high resistance and high damage, certain sets and certain class abilities that are ridiculous, this is why eso can never be balanced.

Pvp builds should be either a healer, a tank or, a dps - not all of the above. This game enables such horendous and unbalanced gameplay. U23 will make cyrodiil worse.

I cant blame the players i blame the developers for allowing such [snip] game play.



Sets,CP allocation,potions and food.

[Edit to remove profanity]

Sharee

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Too many players running around with high resistance and high damage, certain sets and certain class abilities that are ridiculous, this is why eso can never be balanced.

Well to be fair, ZOS seems to be doing good job of removing the worst offenders next patch. 7th nerfed, fury nerfed, S&B nerfed, corrosive nerfed.

Not going to make any final judgement before the dust settles - too many things are changing at once - but things are moving in the right direction, methinks.

Zevrro

Why is it unusual to not run out of resources? If you're running out of resources then you've messed up. Being able to sustain, survive and do damage is normal on any good pvp build.

TBois

Heavy attack for sustain, build for damage/mitigation; know when to block, dodge roll and los as this will mitigate more damage than most builds can; lastly but most importantly dont be afraid to die and learn from each death

technohic

There are a few things out there that are a bit overtuned, but a lot of it also is knowing how to play and managing your resources. And no; PvP should not have to be about having a trinity role. Versatile builds are good to have and allow to react and have skilled play. I mean if I say the game should be how I personally would enjoy it; I'd say they need to get rid of the traditional trinity of tank, healer, and DPS in PvE as well. It's outdated

SKYICE01

ArchMikem wrote: »

Ive PvP'd for a couple years now. I've picked up on things, defeated thousands. But i absolutely cannot fathom how so many people never run out of resources, always break free, mitigate the hell out of attacks, constantly self heal, never get snared, AND turn around to lay waste to their attackers, all in the same build, acting like its the easiest thing to pull off.

Just how.

Is it like some kind of PvP fight club? First rule is you dont talk about Build Club?

If you stop zerging one day and l2p you will know

VaranisArano

I can't ever tell if these types of posts are:
A. Seriously asking
B. Complaining about 1vXers
C. Low-key pointing out that Cheat Engine exists

Maybe its time to order a new sarcasm detector.

ArchMikem

VaranisArano wrote: »

I can't ever tell if these types of posts are:
A. Seriously asking
B. Complaining about 1vXers
C. Low-key pointing out that Cheat Engine exists

Maybe its time to order a new sarcasm detector.

A: Yes it is.
B: Also a little bit yes.
C: Cheat Engine on Consoles?

SKYICE01 wrote: »

If you stop zerging one day and l2p you will know

That's very good advice, thank you so much for opening my eyes.

NinchiTV

All the things you listed are what most 1vxers and try hard pvpers try and do.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Ive PvP'd for a couple years now. I've picked up on things, defeated thousands. But i absolutely cannot fathom how so many people never run out of resources, always break free, mitigate the hell out of attacks, constantly self heal, never get snared, AND turn around to lay waste to their attackers, all in the same build, acting like its the easiest thing to pull off.

Just how.

Is it like some kind of PvP fight club? First rule is you dont talk about Build Club?

>not run out of resources
wear a sustain set and add appropriate dmg/recov glyphs on jewelry and decide if you want dmg or sustain mundus. Also people who master their class know when to stay offense/defense and know their limit of fuel on their build.

>mitigate/self heal/never snared/good dmg
wear a defense set or monster set and keep up your defenses and try and stay at 100% hp ( i know this seems like duh but some people tend to forget to heal when theyre at 60% HP and their tunnel vision, thats also when you want to use your ult and busrt them at 50% or lower.) Self heal; all classes have a self heal and you should stay on top of it. Stam builds use shuffle or forward momentum to get the snares off and kite. Plus pots for 8s of immunity. Good dmg on a stam build comes from around 4k+ wep dmg and mag can put up around 45k+ max mag and penetration and get the same results roughly.

In the end, its all about balancing sustain/dmg/mit with sets and glyphs and knowing your limits on the build and aving that awareness.

NinchiTV

TBois wrote: »

Heavy attack for sustain, build for damage/mitigation; know when to block, dodge roll and los as this will mitigate more damage than most builds can; lastly but most importantly dont be afraid to die and learn from each death

Yep, when you die try and reflect on how and why and try to avoid it next time, you'll die eventually but if you can take something from a loss, you win. (kinda)

kaithuzar

ArchMikem wrote: »

Ive PvP'd for a couple years now. I've picked up on things, defeated thousands. But i absolutely cannot fathom how so many people never run out of resources, always break free, mitigate the hell out of attacks, constantly self heal, never get snared, AND turn around to lay waste to their attackers, all in the same build, acting like its the easiest thing to pull off.

Just how.

Is it like some kind of PvP fight club? First rule is you dont talk about Build Club?

If you’re playing in a CP enabled campaign, “CP” is your answer.

If not, then cost-reduction and recovery has an efficiency ratio, as well as your skill to manage your resources effectively.
(Hitting synergies is one way to manage resources)

Davadin

Sharee wrote: »

Well to be fair, ZOS seems to be doing good job of removing the worst offenders next patch. 7th nerfed, fury nerfed, S&B nerfed, corrosive nerfed.

wait what?

Corrosive nerfed?????

ArchMikem wrote: »

Is it like some kind of PvP fight club? First rule is you dont talk about Build Club?

yup.

think all those youtube videos n articles on meta builds holds all the secrets?

thats what PvP guilds want u to think.

i'm in one and lemme tell u, every player has their own secret on pulling off insane combo and escape routines.

bottom line, they took (or submitted) meta builds for the public, then further tweak it for their personal gain (or the guild's gain).


Seriously ive been here since beta and been PvP alot too, but when i join a real PvP guild, and try to spar somebody who got their *** in order? boy, i was schooled...........

InvictusApollo

ArchMikem wrote: »

Is it like some kind of PvP fight club? First rule is you dont talk about Build Club?

Build Club? Never heard of it. But I'm gonna kill the moron who let the word out about our club.

Urzigurumash

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Pvp builds should be either a healer, a tank or, a dps - not all of the above. This game enables such horendous and unbalanced gameplay. U23 will make cyrodiil worse.

KillsAllElves wrote: »

take your ass to a trial

Nice advice you've given yourself there

magictucktuck

Well one thing I have learned, despite everyone wanting to have high weapon and spell damage, if you spec mostly recovery with a little lower damage then when your opponent is out of recources and can't Dodge and block they die fast. Especially if your opponent is in light or medium. But then you're going to have a harder time bursting tanks. But it's still fun being a glass cannon, most builds have a counter

Iskiab

magictucktuck wrote: »

Well one thing I have learned, despite everyone wanting to have high weapon and spell damage, if you spec mostly recovery with a little lower damage then when your opponent is out of recources and can't Dodge and block they die fast. Especially if your opponent is in light or medium. But then you're going to have a harder time bursting tanks. But it's still fun being a glass cannon, most builds have a counter

Yea, this works wonders, especially in small scale. A lot of players theorycraft a combo and don’t really know how to play. Survive that combo and they lack sustain to do anything else but wait to die.

Theignson

Need more context. If it is a small group, eg 4-6 , they are often designed to supplement each other with their builds. They can be extremely hard to kill. They have a huge advantage over pugs, plus they are usually in discord so they call out who to 6v1 focus. As a solo I just avoid those groups since they will just destroy you.

If it is a solo player, then the maxim, "you can't have everything" holds. Get combat metrics to quantify exactly how hard they are hitting you.

For example, you can have a stam warden build that is extremely tanky, has good sustain, good helaing, but you lose weapon damage. So how do they kill you? They generate ulti then hit you with their sub/DB/ executioner combo. Just watch for their combo and those tanks should almost never kill you.

Or you could have a NB whose combo hits extremely hard. But those are not tanky, they are squishy. They cloak away. Or a sorc hitting extremely hard, but they have low hp, they depend on shields and streak.

In a build you are trying to put together: damage (weapon damage, critical damage and penetration for stam build), defense (resists and hp), sustain (stam recovery) , and healing. Its almost impossible to max all 4. Eg for a stam dk you can have a heavy armor build with seventh/fury, and this can generate high weapon damage under attack, which boosts both damage and healing. But the damage isnt as high as the glass cannons can get, and those stam DK builds usually have bad weapon critical compared, eg to a NB. They also have lower regen that a NB, eg compare 7th to bone pirate, there is no comparison.

Its easy enough to claim cheating, but I've pvped almost daily for over 18 months, almost never seen anything that I even think is cheating. Only once or twice.

JumpmanLane

ArchMikem wrote: »

Ive PvP'd for a couple years now. I've picked up on things, defeated thousands. But i absolutely cannot fathom how so many people never run out of resources, always break free, mitigate the hell out of attacks, constantly self heal, never get snared, AND turn around to lay waste to their attackers, all in the same build, acting like its the easiest thing to pull off.

Just how.

Is it like some kind of PvP fight club? First rule is you dont talk about Build Club?

The secret is something @KenaPKK used to say about 1vXing: run just enough. Run just enough damage to kill people. Run just enough sustain to not run out of resources if someone jumps on you. Run just enough mitigation to survive the same. Have some sort of mobility.

The rest is skill and experience.

Sharee

Davadin wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Well to be fair, ZOS seems to be doing good job of removing the worst offenders next patch. 7th nerfed, fury nerfed, S&B nerfed, corrosive nerfed.

wait what?

Corrosive nerfed?????

It no longer makes DOTs ignore armor.

KillsAllElves

Urzigurumash wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Pvp builds should be either a healer, a tank or, a dps - not all of the above. This game enables such horendous and unbalanced gameplay. U23 will make cyrodiil worse.

KillsAllElves wrote: »

take your ass to a trial

Nice advice you've given yourself there

You must be upset because another player pointed out issues in the game.

Your response however is irrelevant and makes no sense. Perhaps try again.

technohic

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Pvp builds should be either a healer, a tank or, a dps - not all of the above. This game enables such horendous and unbalanced gameplay. U23 will make cyrodiil worse.

KillsAllElves wrote: »

take your ass to a trial

Nice advice you've given yourself there

You must be upset because another player pointed out issues in the game.

Your response however is irrelevant and makes no sense. Perhaps try again.

Nah. Another player pointed out what he THINKS the game does wrong. The guy you quoted just pointed to where that player can find it.

The player can also find it in PVP as well BTW. I mean that is what ball groups do along with taking advantage poor targeting, and smart heals and buffs to probably the best effect in Cyrodiil. So if someone's upset about independent playstyles beating their role players , maybe they're not so good at their role.

KillsAllElves

]

Nah. Another player pointed out what he THINKS the game does wrong. The guy you quoted just pointed to where that player can find it.

The player can also find it in PVP as well BTW. I mean that is what ball groups do along with taking advantage poor targeting, and smart heals and buffs to probably the best effect in Cyrodiil. So if someone's upset about independent playstyles beating their role players , maybe they're not so good at their role. [/quote]

Once more you respond with irrelevant statements.

youre arguing for the sake of arguing. Players with high defense, and healing should not be able to take out a group unless that group is full incompetent or new players which is to be expected.

pvp should have caps on damage, resistance including shield strength and healing.

Theres a reason why 2018 and 2019 has seen so many nerfs.

RighteousBacon

KillsAllElves wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Ive PvP'd for a couple years now. I've picked up on things, defeated thousands. But i absolutely cannot fathom how so many people never run out of resources, always break free, mitigate the hell out of attacks, constantly self heal, never get snared, AND turn around to lay waste to their attackers, all in the same build, acting like its the easiest thing to pull off.

Just how.

Is it like some kind of PvP fight club? First rule is you dont talk about Build Club?

Too many players running around trying to be a proto fake me out tank that can deal too much damage. If youre building high resistances take your ass to a trial.

Too many players running around with high resistance and high damage, certain sets and certain class abilities that are ridiculous, this is why eso can never be balanced.

Pvp builds should be either a healer, a tank or, a dps - not all of the above. This game enables such horendous and unbalanced gameplay. U23 will make cyrodiil worse.

I cant blame the players i blame the developers for allowing such [snip] game play.



Sets,CP allocation,potions and food.

I disagree

technohic

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Once more you respond with irrelevant statements.

youre arguing for the sake of arguing. Players with high defense, and healing should not be able to take out a group unless that group is full incompetent or new players which is to be expected.

pvp should have caps on damage, resistance including shield strength and healing.

Theres a reason why 2018 and 2019 has seen so many nerfs.

Do you run in AOTP by chance?

KillsAllElves

RighteousBacon wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Ive PvP'd for a couple years now. I've picked up on things, defeated thousands. But i absolutely cannot fathom how so many people never run out of resources, always break free, mitigate the hell out of attacks, constantly self heal, never get snared, AND turn around to lay waste to their attackers, all in the same build, acting like its the easiest thing to pull off.

Just how.

Is it like some kind of PvP fight club? First rule is you dont talk about Build Club?

Too many players running around trying to be a proto fake me out tank that can deal too much damage. If youre building high resistances take your ass to a trial.

Too many players running around with high resistance and high damage, certain sets and certain class abilities that are ridiculous, this is why eso can never be balanced.

Pvp builds should be either a healer, a tank or, a dps - not all of the above. This game enables such horendous and unbalanced gameplay. U23 will make cyrodiil worse.

I cant blame the players i blame the developers for allowing such [snip] game play.



Sets,CP allocation,potions and food.

I disagree

You can disagree all you want, it doesnt change the fact that there is an ever increasing imbalance in pvp excluding server performance. One more thing to add, reduce population in the 30 day, force players to spread out to other campaigns.

KillsAllElves

technohic wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Once more you respond with irrelevant statements.

youre arguing for the sake of arguing. Players with high defense, and healing should not be able to take out a group unless that group is full incompetent or new players which is to be expected.

pvp should have caps on damage, resistance including shield strength and healing.

Theres a reason why 2018 and 2019 has seen so many nerfs.

Do you run in AOTP by chance?

Aotp?