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Questions about NB healer

danara
danara
✭✭✭
Hi everyone,

after working on the warden, i want to know what make nb healer special.

From what i heared they can do very well but they are hard to play. i want to understand why. I cant find any

Consider that the context of this question is Vet Trial HM



1) Can a nb Healer be a part of a competitive trial ? From what i see i can only imagine that nb healer are really strong on dunjeon, but proove me wrong (i really want to !) ^^

2) Is the nb healer hard to play because your healing is depending of your dps?

3) Which spell should i use? I dont know if the "flash heal" of the nb is nice, considering that you have Healing Ward (even more in scalebreaker)

4) I dont understand the "Sap Essence" spell, i mean, is it usefull? i dont see in which case it is usefull

5) Someone try it on pts?

Thanks guys
  • Marginis
    Marginis
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I mainly use my nightblade as an off-healer, after having tried him as a full healer in the past. Nightblades' biggest strength in regard to healing is their heals' strength. It's very easy to get really high healing from a nightblade what with all their buffs and passives. They secondarily have some minor healing with a lot of abilities, and while few of them are powerful in regards to their healing, they are a decent supplement to heals.

    Nightblades' main weakness in regard to healing is their lack of variety in healing spells. Nightblades are one of the classes hit hardest by the upcoming nerfs, as they rely very much on universal heals, not having the versatility of, say, a templar, with all their healing class abilities. Because of this, you really have to make sure you have your bases covered as far as what you need on any good healer build before you can focus on wants like extra utility.

    This all comes down to making a build that is a little bit easier in some ways and a bit more difficult in others. Usually this means people have a net harder time building a nightblade healer than another class, but nightblade healers can function quite well (at least until the next balance changes go through, after which... we'll see).
    danara wrote: »
    1) Can a nb Healer be a part of a competitive trial ? From what i see i can only imagine that nb healer are really strong on dunjeon, but proove me wrong (i really want to !) ^^

    Yes, nightblades can heal in trials. The difficulty is there though, and in my opinion it comes almost entirely from not having the right ability to answer a problem, where another class might. You have to make up for it with pure "don't get yourself into a situation in the first place where you need a skill you don't have" skill. But it is absolutely feasible.
    2) Is the nb healer hard to play because your healing is depending of your dps?

    It's a myth that because of nightblades' siphoning abilities their healing is reliant on their dps. If a nightblade healer is built in such a way they rely on their siphoning skills like that, they aren't built for trial level content, generally. Healers need to use healing done abilities, not healing taken abilities, with a few exceptions (I like to use some of the siphoning abilities with a healer build, but those are more for buffs than the healing they do). I look at it like this - siphoning skills are a supplement, not a substitute for true healing.
    3) Which spell should i use? I dont know if the "flash heal" of the nb is nice, considering that you have Healing Ward (even more in scalebreaker)

    Nightblades have an excellent single target burst heal (which uses health, so it's always available), and my off-healer build right now relies on damage shield abilities to protect teammates while I heal them up with healing springs, but your options are limited, as I mentioned earlier. Part of building a nightblade healer is, in fact, making tactical choices of what can do the job more or less as well as an ability you just had by default on another class.
    4) I dont understand the "Sap Essence" spell, i mean, is it usefull? i dont see in which case it is usefull

    Gives a buff and a little bit of healing while building ult and doing damage. I should mention, builds based on ultimate abilities are fairly good with nightblades as well, so you could spec toward something along those lines as well. It's one of those things where, yes, nightblades don't really get the healing they need out of it their siphoning abilities, but it does at least come with a few other things that partially make up for it, like the fact that you get damage, ult, and buffs without having to slot separate abilities.

    Anyway, I haven't tested a nightblade healer in the PTS yet - but I can tell you that my off-healer tank is definitely going to be switched up, made less of a healer altogether, and just a straight tank. It's not very heartening to hear that, I'm sure, but at least for now, nightblades can still do decent work healing.
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
  • danara
    danara
    ✭✭✭
    Marginis wrote: »
    I mainly use my nightblade as an off-healer, after having tried him as a full healer in the past. Nightblades' biggest strength in regard to healing is their heals' strength. It's very easy to get really high healing from a nightblade what with all their buffs and passives. They secondarily have some minor healing with a lot of abilities, and while few of them are powerful in regards to their healing, they are a decent supplement to heals.

    Nightblades' main weakness in regard to healing is their lack of variety in healing spells. Nightblades are one of the classes hit hardest by the upcoming nerfs, as they rely very much on universal heals, not having the versatility of, say, a templar, with all their healing class abilities. Because of this, you really have to make sure you have your bases covered as far as what you need on any good healer build before you can focus on wants like extra utility.

    This all comes down to making a build that is a little bit easier in some ways and a bit more difficult in others. Usually this means people have a net harder time building a nightblade healer than another class, but nightblade healers can function quite well (at least until the next balance changes go through, after which... we'll see).
    danara wrote: »
    1) Can a nb Healer be a part of a competitive trial ? From what i see i can only imagine that nb healer are really strong on dunjeon, but proove me wrong (i really want to !) ^^

    Yes, nightblades can heal in trials. The difficulty is there though, and in my opinion it comes almost entirely from not having the right ability to answer a problem, where another class might. You have to make up for it with pure "don't get yourself into a situation in the first place where you need a skill you don't have" skill. But it is absolutely feasible.
    2) Is the nb healer hard to play because your healing is depending of your dps?

    It's a myth that because of nightblades' siphoning abilities their healing is reliant on their dps. If a nightblade healer is built in such a way they rely on their siphoning skills like that, they aren't built for trial level content, generally. Healers need to use healing done abilities, not healing taken abilities, with a few exceptions (I like to use some of the siphoning abilities with a healer build, but those are more for buffs than the healing they do). I look at it like this - siphoning skills are a supplement, not a substitute for true healing.
    3) Which spell should i use? I dont know if the "flash heal" of the nb is nice, considering that you have Healing Ward (even more in scalebreaker)

    Nightblades have an excellent single target burst heal (which uses health, so it's always available), and my off-healer build right now relies on damage shield abilities to protect teammates while I heal them up with healing springs, but your options are limited, as I mentioned earlier. Part of building a nightblade healer is, in fact, making tactical choices of what can do the job more or less as well as an ability you just had by default on another class.
    4) I dont understand the "Sap Essence" spell, i mean, is it usefull? i dont see in which case it is usefull

    Gives a buff and a little bit of healing while building ult and doing damage. I should mention, builds based on ultimate abilities are fairly good with nightblades as well, so you could spec toward something along those lines as well. It's one of those things where, yes, nightblades don't really get the healing they need out of it their siphoning abilities, but it does at least come with a few other things that partially make up for it, like the fact that you get damage, ult, and buffs without having to slot separate abilities.

    Anyway, I haven't tested a nightblade healer in the PTS yet - but I can tell you that my off-healer tank is definitely going to be switched up, made less of a healer altogether, and just a straight tank. It's not very heartening to hear that, I'm sure, but at least for now, nightblades can still do decent work healing.

    Very interesting, ty, but as, a healer, you are supposed to play warhorn, isnt it too much dps loss if you play a nb ult?

    I also forgot to ask : someone in game told me that NB healer can provide more buff than a templar, but the only buff i can see is "Minor Savagery" from assassination passives... Is there others i dont see ?
    Edited by danara on July 31, 2019 6:59PM
  • Marginis
    Marginis
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    danara wrote: »
    Marginis wrote: »
    I mainly use my nightblade as an off-healer, after having tried him as a full healer in the past. Nightblades' biggest strength in regard to healing is their heals' strength. It's very easy to get really high healing from a nightblade what with all their buffs and passives. They secondarily have some minor healing with a lot of abilities, and while few of them are powerful in regards to their healing, they are a decent supplement to heals.

    Nightblades' main weakness in regard to healing is their lack of variety in healing spells. Nightblades are one of the classes hit hardest by the upcoming nerfs, as they rely very much on universal heals, not having the versatility of, say, a templar, with all their healing class abilities. Because of this, you really have to make sure you have your bases covered as far as what you need on any good healer build before you can focus on wants like extra utility.

    This all comes down to making a build that is a little bit easier in some ways and a bit more difficult in others. Usually this means people have a net harder time building a nightblade healer than another class, but nightblade healers can function quite well (at least until the next balance changes go through, after which... we'll see).
    danara wrote: »
    1) Can a nb Healer be a part of a competitive trial ? From what i see i can only imagine that nb healer are really strong on dunjeon, but proove me wrong (i really want to !) ^^

    Yes, nightblades can heal in trials. The difficulty is there though, and in my opinion it comes almost entirely from not having the right ability to answer a problem, where another class might. You have to make up for it with pure "don't get yourself into a situation in the first place where you need a skill you don't have" skill. But it is absolutely feasible.
    2) Is the nb healer hard to play because your healing is depending of your dps?

    It's a myth that because of nightblades' siphoning abilities their healing is reliant on their dps. If a nightblade healer is built in such a way they rely on their siphoning skills like that, they aren't built for trial level content, generally. Healers need to use healing done abilities, not healing taken abilities, with a few exceptions (I like to use some of the siphoning abilities with a healer build, but those are more for buffs than the healing they do). I look at it like this - siphoning skills are a supplement, not a substitute for true healing.
    3) Which spell should i use? I dont know if the "flash heal" of the nb is nice, considering that you have Healing Ward (even more in scalebreaker)

    Nightblades have an excellent single target burst heal (which uses health, so it's always available), and my off-healer build right now relies on damage shield abilities to protect teammates while I heal them up with healing springs, but your options are limited, as I mentioned earlier. Part of building a nightblade healer is, in fact, making tactical choices of what can do the job more or less as well as an ability you just had by default on another class.
    4) I dont understand the "Sap Essence" spell, i mean, is it usefull? i dont see in which case it is usefull

    Gives a buff and a little bit of healing while building ult and doing damage. I should mention, builds based on ultimate abilities are fairly good with nightblades as well, so you could spec toward something along those lines as well. It's one of those things where, yes, nightblades don't really get the healing they need out of it their siphoning abilities, but it does at least come with a few other things that partially make up for it, like the fact that you get damage, ult, and buffs without having to slot separate abilities.

    Anyway, I haven't tested a nightblade healer in the PTS yet - but I can tell you that my off-healer tank is definitely going to be switched up, made less of a healer altogether, and just a straight tank. It's not very heartening to hear that, I'm sure, but at least for now, nightblades can still do decent work healing.

    Very interesting, ty, but as, a healer, you are supposed to play warhorn, isnt it too much dps loss if you play a nb ult?

    I also forgot to ask : someone in game told me that NB healer can provide more buff than a templar, but the only buff i can see is "Minor Savagery" from assassination passives... Is there others i dont see ?

    Warhorn is sometimes slotted on a healer, but typically that's delegated to the tank, in my experience. If a group wants 100% uptime on warhorn, they might have two players run it and alternate, but there are two tanks in trials, the only place where 100% uptime is even desirable (though not necessary in my opinion). Any more than two people running warhorn usually indicates a lack of coordination, as two people is quite enough for 100% (or close to 100%) uptime. Healers can run it if they want, but it's more a matter of preference than what's expected, as tanks do it more often by far. That said (long answer to a short question), every group runs things in their own way, and I recommend coordinating with your specific group over what the general rule is every day of the week.

    As to nightblades giving more buffs, I honestly can't say for sure. The nightblades extra buffs are usually self buffs to give more powerful heals (and spell damage/crit) in my experience, rather than buffs for your teammates. That said I haven't run the numbers on this, so the nightblade may give more teammate buffs where the templar has more choices in how to heal. With morphs and the class skill tree passives the nightblade can get (relevant to healers) major fracture and major breach for the group, +spell crit, minor savagery for the group, major protection for the group, major expedition for the group, minor maim for the group, +all resource recovery, major vitality for the group, minor mending, minor magickasteal for the group, major sorcery, +max magicka, and +healing done. I'll let you decide how that compares to other classes.
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nightblades USED to be great at combining damage and healing, but that was drastically nerfed some time ago.

    Now I have trouble seeing why anybody would actively want their healer to be a nightblade (as opposed to picking a healing role because that's what you do if you want to PUG via Groupfinder on a magicka character), with one exception. Yes, there's a good burst heal, an OK HoT, and good sustain, but none of that is a major advantage over templars.

    The one exception is if nobody else is providing Minor Maim (usually the tank handles that), Major Fracture (ditto, although necros and stamdens also do), or Major Breach (ditto and ditto, plus it's often provided via Elemental Drain). Nightblades are very good at providing those debuffs.
  • danara
    danara
    ✭✭✭
    Marginis wrote: »
    danara wrote: »
    Marginis wrote: »
    I mainly use my nightblade as an off-healer, after having tried him as a full healer in the past. Nightblades' biggest strength in regard to healing is their heals' strength. It's very easy to get really high healing from a nightblade what with all their buffs and passives. They secondarily have some minor healing with a lot of abilities, and while few of them are powerful in regards to their healing, they are a decent supplement to heals.

    Nightblades' main weakness in regard to healing is their lack of variety in healing spells. Nightblades are one of the classes hit hardest by the upcoming nerfs, as they rely very much on universal heals, not having the versatility of, say, a templar, with all their healing class abilities. Because of this, you really have to make sure you have your bases covered as far as what you need on any good healer build before you can focus on wants like extra utility.

    This all comes down to making a build that is a little bit easier in some ways and a bit more difficult in others. Usually this means people have a net harder time building a nightblade healer than another class, but nightblade healers can function quite well (at least until the next balance changes go through, after which... we'll see).
    danara wrote: »
    1) Can a nb Healer be a part of a competitive trial ? From what i see i can only imagine that nb healer are really strong on dunjeon, but proove me wrong (i really want to !) ^^

    Yes, nightblades can heal in trials. The difficulty is there though, and in my opinion it comes almost entirely from not having the right ability to answer a problem, where another class might. You have to make up for it with pure "don't get yourself into a situation in the first place where you need a skill you don't have" skill. But it is absolutely feasible.
    2) Is the nb healer hard to play because your healing is depending of your dps?

    It's a myth that because of nightblades' siphoning abilities their healing is reliant on their dps. If a nightblade healer is built in such a way they rely on their siphoning skills like that, they aren't built for trial level content, generally. Healers need to use healing done abilities, not healing taken abilities, with a few exceptions (I like to use some of the siphoning abilities with a healer build, but those are more for buffs than the healing they do). I look at it like this - siphoning skills are a supplement, not a substitute for true healing.
    3) Which spell should i use? I dont know if the "flash heal" of the nb is nice, considering that you have Healing Ward (even more in scalebreaker)

    Nightblades have an excellent single target burst heal (which uses health, so it's always available), and my off-healer build right now relies on damage shield abilities to protect teammates while I heal them up with healing springs, but your options are limited, as I mentioned earlier. Part of building a nightblade healer is, in fact, making tactical choices of what can do the job more or less as well as an ability you just had by default on another class.
    4) I dont understand the "Sap Essence" spell, i mean, is it usefull? i dont see in which case it is usefull

    Gives a buff and a little bit of healing while building ult and doing damage. I should mention, builds based on ultimate abilities are fairly good with nightblades as well, so you could spec toward something along those lines as well. It's one of those things where, yes, nightblades don't really get the healing they need out of it their siphoning abilities, but it does at least come with a few other things that partially make up for it, like the fact that you get damage, ult, and buffs without having to slot separate abilities.

    Anyway, I haven't tested a nightblade healer in the PTS yet - but I can tell you that my off-healer tank is definitely going to be switched up, made less of a healer altogether, and just a straight tank. It's not very heartening to hear that, I'm sure, but at least for now, nightblades can still do decent work healing.

    Very interesting, ty, but as, a healer, you are supposed to play warhorn, isnt it too much dps loss if you play a nb ult?

    I also forgot to ask : someone in game told me that NB healer can provide more buff than a templar, but the only buff i can see is "Minor Savagery" from assassination passives... Is there others i dont see ?

    Warhorn is sometimes slotted on a healer, but typically that's delegated to the tank, in my experience. If a group wants 100% uptime on warhorn, they might have two players run it and alternate, but there are two tanks in trials, the only place where 100% uptime is even desirable (though not necessary in my opinion). Any more than two people running warhorn usually indicates a lack of coordination, as two people is quite enough for 100% (or close to 100%) uptime. Healers can run it if they want, but it's more a matter of preference than what's expected, as tanks do it more often by far. That said (long answer to a short question), every group runs things in their own way, and I recommend coordinating with your specific group over what the general rule is every day of the week.

    As to nightblades giving more buffs, I honestly can't say for sure. The nightblades extra buffs are usually self buffs to give more powerful heals (and spell damage/crit) in my experience, rather than buffs for your teammates. That said I haven't run the numbers on this, so the nightblade may give more teammate buffs where the templar has more choices in how to heal. With morphs and the class skill tree passives the nightblade can get (relevant to healers) major fracture and major breach for the group, +spell crit, minor savagery for the group, major protection for the group, major expedition for the group, minor maim for the group, +all resource recovery, major vitality for the group, minor mending, minor magickasteal for the group, major sorcery, +max magicka, and +healing done. I'll let you decide how that compares to other classes.

    Well for the buff

    Major Fractur/Breach are pplyed by the tank taunt, so i never count them

    Minor magicka steal is also applied by the Elemental Drain (in addition to major breach) so i guess if one healer use the spell that applyed it, then the other can run something else?

    Minor Savagery (+ weapon critics) come from the Syphonning Passives, but i dont know where you get the spell critics for your mates.

    ressource recovery come from orbs unless i miss something,
    Major Sorcery is not relevant because it comes from potions.

    Hum that's a lot to think...i am very afraid of the next patch concerning heaalers that are not Tempar or Warden...
  • kringled_1
    kringled_1
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Marginis wrote: »
    danara wrote: »
    Marginis wrote: »
    I mainly use my nightblade as an off-healer, after having tried him as a full healer in the past. Nightblades' biggest strength in regard to healing is their heals' strength. It's very easy to get really high healing from a nightblade what with all their buffs and passives. They secondarily have some minor healing with a lot of abilities, and while few of them are powerful in regards to their healing, they are a decent supplement to heals.

    Nightblades' main weakness in regard to healing is their lack of variety in healing spells. Nightblades are one of the classes hit hardest by the upcoming nerfs, as they rely very much on universal heals, not having the versatility of, say, a templar, with all their healing class abilities. Because of this, you really have to make sure you have your bases covered as far as what you need on any good healer build before you can focus on wants like extra utility.

    This all comes down to making a build that is a little bit easier in some ways and a bit more difficult in others. Usually this means people have a net harder time building a nightblade healer than another class, but nightblade healers can function quite well (at least until the next balance changes go through, after which... we'll see).
    danara wrote: »
    1) Can a nb Healer be a part of a competitive trial ? From what i see i can only imagine that nb healer are really strong on dunjeon, but proove me wrong (i really want to !) ^^

    Yes, nightblades can heal in trials. The difficulty is there though, and in my opinion it comes almost entirely from not having the right ability to answer a problem, where another class might. You have to make up for it with pure "don't get yourself into a situation in the first place where you need a skill you don't have" skill. But it is absolutely feasible.
    2) Is the nb healer hard to play because your healing is depending of your dps?

    It's a myth that because of nightblades' siphoning abilities their healing is reliant on their dps. If a nightblade healer is built in such a way they rely on their siphoning skills like that, they aren't built for trial level content, generally. Healers need to use healing done abilities, not healing taken abilities, with a few exceptions (I like to use some of the siphoning abilities with a healer build, but those are more for buffs than the healing they do). I look at it like this - siphoning skills are a supplement, not a substitute for true healing.
    3) Which spell should i use? I dont know if the "flash heal" of the nb is nice, considering that you have Healing Ward (even more in scalebreaker)

    Nightblades have an excellent single target burst heal (which uses health, so it's always available), and my off-healer build right now relies on damage shield abilities to protect teammates while I heal them up with healing springs, but your options are limited, as I mentioned earlier. Part of building a nightblade healer is, in fact, making tactical choices of what can do the job more or less as well as an ability you just had by default on another class.
    4) I dont understand the "Sap Essence" spell, i mean, is it usefull? i dont see in which case it is usefull

    Gives a buff and a little bit of healing while building ult and doing damage. I should mention, builds based on ultimate abilities are fairly good with nightblades as well, so you could spec toward something along those lines as well. It's one of those things where, yes, nightblades don't really get the healing they need out of it their siphoning abilities, but it does at least come with a few other things that partially make up for it, like the fact that you get damage, ult, and buffs without having to slot separate abilities.

    Anyway, I haven't tested a nightblade healer in the PTS yet - but I can tell you that my off-healer tank is definitely going to be switched up, made less of a healer altogether, and just a straight tank. It's not very heartening to hear that, I'm sure, but at least for now, nightblades can still do decent work healing.

    Very interesting, ty, but as, a healer, you are supposed to play warhorn, isnt it too much dps loss if you play a nb ult?

    I also forgot to ask : someone in game told me that NB healer can provide more buff than a templar, but the only buff i can see is "Minor Savagery" from assassination passives... Is there others i dont see ?

    Warhorn is sometimes slotted on a healer, but typically that's delegated to the tank, in my experience. If a group wants 100% uptime on warhorn, they might have two players run it and alternate, but there are two tanks in trials, the only place where 100% uptime is even desirable (though not necessary in my opinion). Any more than two people running warhorn usually indicates a lack of coordination, as two people is quite enough for 100% (or close to 100%) uptime. Healers can run it if they want, but it's more a matter of preference than what's expected, as tanks do it more often by far. That said (long answer to a short question), every group runs things in their own way, and I recommend coordinating with your specific group over what the general rule is every day of the week.

    Most of the groups I have run with are more concerned with the Major Force buff from aggressive horn, which is much shorter than the max resources buff. This is why groups will run warhorn on both healers and tanks.
  • zvavi
    zvavi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lack of unique non ultimate synergies. Next patch they will have an aoe dmg reduction skill which will make them unique (as long as there are no other nb in group)
  • Raisin
    Raisin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    kringled_1 wrote: »
    Marginis wrote: »
    danara wrote: »
    Marginis wrote: »
    I mainly use my nightblade as an off-healer, after having tried him as a full healer in the past. Nightblades' biggest strength in regard to healing is their heals' strength. It's very easy to get really high healing from a nightblade what with all their buffs and passives. They secondarily have some minor healing with a lot of abilities, and while few of them are powerful in regards to their healing, they are a decent supplement to heals.

    Nightblades' main weakness in regard to healing is their lack of variety in healing spells. Nightblades are one of the classes hit hardest by the upcoming nerfs, as they rely very much on universal heals, not having the versatility of, say, a templar, with all their healing class abilities. Because of this, you really have to make sure you have your bases covered as far as what you need on any good healer build before you can focus on wants like extra utility.

    This all comes down to making a build that is a little bit easier in some ways and a bit more difficult in others. Usually this means people have a net harder time building a nightblade healer than another class, but nightblade healers can function quite well (at least until the next balance changes go through, after which... we'll see).
    danara wrote: »
    1) Can a nb Healer be a part of a competitive trial ? From what i see i can only imagine that nb healer are really strong on dunjeon, but proove me wrong (i really want to !) ^^

    Yes, nightblades can heal in trials. The difficulty is there though, and in my opinion it comes almost entirely from not having the right ability to answer a problem, where another class might. You have to make up for it with pure "don't get yourself into a situation in the first place where you need a skill you don't have" skill. But it is absolutely feasible.
    2) Is the nb healer hard to play because your healing is depending of your dps?

    It's a myth that because of nightblades' siphoning abilities their healing is reliant on their dps. If a nightblade healer is built in such a way they rely on their siphoning skills like that, they aren't built for trial level content, generally. Healers need to use healing done abilities, not healing taken abilities, with a few exceptions (I like to use some of the siphoning abilities with a healer build, but those are more for buffs than the healing they do). I look at it like this - siphoning skills are a supplement, not a substitute for true healing.
    3) Which spell should i use? I dont know if the "flash heal" of the nb is nice, considering that you have Healing Ward (even more in scalebreaker)

    Nightblades have an excellent single target burst heal (which uses health, so it's always available), and my off-healer build right now relies on damage shield abilities to protect teammates while I heal them up with healing springs, but your options are limited, as I mentioned earlier. Part of building a nightblade healer is, in fact, making tactical choices of what can do the job more or less as well as an ability you just had by default on another class.
    4) I dont understand the "Sap Essence" spell, i mean, is it usefull? i dont see in which case it is usefull

    Gives a buff and a little bit of healing while building ult and doing damage. I should mention, builds based on ultimate abilities are fairly good with nightblades as well, so you could spec toward something along those lines as well. It's one of those things where, yes, nightblades don't really get the healing they need out of it their siphoning abilities, but it does at least come with a few other things that partially make up for it, like the fact that you get damage, ult, and buffs without having to slot separate abilities.

    Anyway, I haven't tested a nightblade healer in the PTS yet - but I can tell you that my off-healer tank is definitely going to be switched up, made less of a healer altogether, and just a straight tank. It's not very heartening to hear that, I'm sure, but at least for now, nightblades can still do decent work healing.

    Very interesting, ty, but as, a healer, you are supposed to play warhorn, isnt it too much dps loss if you play a nb ult?

    I also forgot to ask : someone in game told me that NB healer can provide more buff than a templar, but the only buff i can see is "Minor Savagery" from assassination passives... Is there others i dont see ?

    Warhorn is sometimes slotted on a healer, but typically that's delegated to the tank, in my experience. If a group wants 100% uptime on warhorn, they might have two players run it and alternate, but there are two tanks in trials, the only place where 100% uptime is even desirable (though not necessary in my opinion). Any more than two people running warhorn usually indicates a lack of coordination, as two people is quite enough for 100% (or close to 100%) uptime. Healers can run it if they want, but it's more a matter of preference than what's expected, as tanks do it more often by far. That said (long answer to a short question), every group runs things in their own way, and I recommend coordinating with your specific group over what the general rule is every day of the week.

    Most of the groups I have run with are more concerned with the Major Force buff from aggressive horn, which is much shorter than the max resources buff. This is why groups will run warhorn on both healers and tanks.

    This. You technically need 5 people for perfect uptime. Running two warhorns in a trial and thinking it is enough is...concerning. What are the healers doing with their ultis then? :p
    I'm bitter.
  • Marginis
    Marginis
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Raisin wrote: »
    kringled_1 wrote: »
    Marginis wrote: »
    danara wrote: »
    Marginis wrote: »
    I mainly use my nightblade as an off-healer, after having tried him as a full healer in the past. Nightblades' biggest strength in regard to healing is their heals' strength. It's very easy to get really high healing from a nightblade what with all their buffs and passives. They secondarily have some minor healing with a lot of abilities, and while few of them are powerful in regards to their healing, they are a decent supplement to heals.

    Nightblades' main weakness in regard to healing is their lack of variety in healing spells. Nightblades are one of the classes hit hardest by the upcoming nerfs, as they rely very much on universal heals, not having the versatility of, say, a templar, with all their healing class abilities. Because of this, you really have to make sure you have your bases covered as far as what you need on any good healer build before you can focus on wants like extra utility.

    This all comes down to making a build that is a little bit easier in some ways and a bit more difficult in others. Usually this means people have a net harder time building a nightblade healer than another class, but nightblade healers can function quite well (at least until the next balance changes go through, after which... we'll see).
    danara wrote: »
    1) Can a nb Healer be a part of a competitive trial ? From what i see i can only imagine that nb healer are really strong on dunjeon, but proove me wrong (i really want to !) ^^

    Yes, nightblades can heal in trials. The difficulty is there though, and in my opinion it comes almost entirely from not having the right ability to answer a problem, where another class might. You have to make up for it with pure "don't get yourself into a situation in the first place where you need a skill you don't have" skill. But it is absolutely feasible.
    2) Is the nb healer hard to play because your healing is depending of your dps?

    It's a myth that because of nightblades' siphoning abilities their healing is reliant on their dps. If a nightblade healer is built in such a way they rely on their siphoning skills like that, they aren't built for trial level content, generally. Healers need to use healing done abilities, not healing taken abilities, with a few exceptions (I like to use some of the siphoning abilities with a healer build, but those are more for buffs than the healing they do). I look at it like this - siphoning skills are a supplement, not a substitute for true healing.
    3) Which spell should i use? I dont know if the "flash heal" of the nb is nice, considering that you have Healing Ward (even more in scalebreaker)

    Nightblades have an excellent single target burst heal (which uses health, so it's always available), and my off-healer build right now relies on damage shield abilities to protect teammates while I heal them up with healing springs, but your options are limited, as I mentioned earlier. Part of building a nightblade healer is, in fact, making tactical choices of what can do the job more or less as well as an ability you just had by default on another class.
    4) I dont understand the "Sap Essence" spell, i mean, is it usefull? i dont see in which case it is usefull

    Gives a buff and a little bit of healing while building ult and doing damage. I should mention, builds based on ultimate abilities are fairly good with nightblades as well, so you could spec toward something along those lines as well. It's one of those things where, yes, nightblades don't really get the healing they need out of it their siphoning abilities, but it does at least come with a few other things that partially make up for it, like the fact that you get damage, ult, and buffs without having to slot separate abilities.

    Anyway, I haven't tested a nightblade healer in the PTS yet - but I can tell you that my off-healer tank is definitely going to be switched up, made less of a healer altogether, and just a straight tank. It's not very heartening to hear that, I'm sure, but at least for now, nightblades can still do decent work healing.

    Very interesting, ty, but as, a healer, you are supposed to play warhorn, isnt it too much dps loss if you play a nb ult?

    I also forgot to ask : someone in game told me that NB healer can provide more buff than a templar, but the only buff i can see is "Minor Savagery" from assassination passives... Is there others i dont see ?

    Warhorn is sometimes slotted on a healer, but typically that's delegated to the tank, in my experience. If a group wants 100% uptime on warhorn, they might have two players run it and alternate, but there are two tanks in trials, the only place where 100% uptime is even desirable (though not necessary in my opinion). Any more than two people running warhorn usually indicates a lack of coordination, as two people is quite enough for 100% (or close to 100%) uptime. Healers can run it if they want, but it's more a matter of preference than what's expected, as tanks do it more often by far. That said (long answer to a short question), every group runs things in their own way, and I recommend coordinating with your specific group over what the general rule is every day of the week.

    Most of the groups I have run with are more concerned with the Major Force buff from aggressive horn, which is much shorter than the max resources buff. This is why groups will run warhorn on both healers and tanks.

    This. You technically need 5 people for perfect uptime. Running two warhorns in a trial and thinking it is enough is...concerning. What are the healers doing with their ultis then? :p

    However, 3 ultimates can be used for other utility or more dps (healers still have decent stats for doing damage where tanks don't), so the loss of extra crit for teammates is often made up by the damage a different ultimate you can do, at least in part. The idea is also that you also get more utility with a different ultimate, and with high ultimate gen you can do a lot more with fewer people working for a 100% uptime on a buff.

    With my NB tank/off-healer for example, I have 100% uptime on warhorn (the main buff at least) just by myself, so if you have two people like me running a nightblade tank, two tanks using warhorn is more than enough. That said, every group prefers different things (and how many high ult gen Nb tanks are there, really?), so there's not much room to criticize preference. There is nothing wrong with more people running warhorn, but especially since the last nerf to it, it's only a general rule I think for the two tanks to run it. Generally speaking, it's more optional for healers.
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    danara wrote: »
    Hi everyone,

    after working on the warden, i want to know what make nb healer special.

    From what i heared they can do very well but they are hard to play. i want to understand why. I cant find any

    Consider that the context of this question is Vet Trial HM



    1) Can a nb Healer be a part of a competitive trial ? From what i see i can only imagine that nb healer are really strong on dunjeon, but proove me wrong (i really want to !) ^^

    2) Is the nb healer hard to play because your healing is depending of your dps?

    3) Which spell should i use? I dont know if the "flash heal" of the nb is nice, considering that you have Healing Ward (even more in scalebreaker)

    4) I dont understand the "Sap Essence" spell, i mean, is it usefull? i dont see in which case it is usefull

    5) Someone try it on pts?

    Thanks guys

    I never got to the point where I was healing Vet HM, but I’ve healed a lot of vets. Main thing about NB healing you have to realize is a lot of the NB healing abilities are jacked and unusable, stick to key abilities and you’ll do fine.

    1. Yes, downside of a NB healer is lack of synergies and no unique buff (like warden minor endurance). When I did things like HoF Vet people said it was one of their smoothest runs.

    2. No, steer clear of any ability where the healing is tied to damage. Those are the undertuned abilities and avoiding them is what makes NB healing work.

    3. Healthy Offering is the largest single target burst heal in the game, and also the best. It costs no mana, is larger then breath of life, it’s a smart heal, and the health drain can be offset by standing in refreshing path.

    4. Sap Essence is only useful for dungeon trash. On trash packs spamming it will keep everyone healed and do 30k+ dps

    5. PvE isn’t my thing, I went on PTS to look at values but haven’t tried it in a dungeon or trial. Single target healing has been buffed like crazy so the advantage of using a NB healer’s sort of diluted, I’m not sure how it will play out.

    Here’s my spec for pve on live with two flex spots:
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=153880

    P.S. - in dungeons I use the Iceheart monster set. Sap spam gets you a ton of aggro so you’ll end up tanking most trash and you’ll need it.
    Edited by Iskiab on August 1, 2019 1:56PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • danara
    danara
    ✭✭✭
    Iskiab wrote: »
    danara wrote: »
    Hi everyone,

    after working on the warden, i want to know what make nb healer special.

    From what i heared they can do very well but they are hard to play. i want to understand why. I cant find any

    Consider that the context of this question is Vet Trial HM



    1) Can a nb Healer be a part of a competitive trial ? From what i see i can only imagine that nb healer are really strong on dunjeon, but proove me wrong (i really want to !) ^^

    2) Is the nb healer hard to play because your healing is depending of your dps?

    3) Which spell should i use? I dont know if the "flash heal" of the nb is nice, considering that you have Healing Ward (even more in scalebreaker)

    4) I dont understand the "Sap Essence" spell, i mean, is it usefull? i dont see in which case it is usefull

    5) Someone try it on pts?

    Thanks guys

    I never got to the point where I was healing Vet HM, but I’ve healed a lot of vets. Main thing about NB healing you have to realize is a lot of the NB healing abilities are jacked and unusable, stick to key abilities and you’ll do fine.

    1. Yes, downside of a NB healer is lack of synergies and no unique buff (like warden minor endurance). When I did things like HoF Vet people said it was one of their smoothest runs.

    2. No, steer clear of any ability where the healing is tied to damage. Those are the undertuned abilities and avoiding them is what makes NB healing work.

    3. Healthy Offering is the largest single target burst heal in the game, and also the best. It costs no mana, is larger then breath of life, it’s a smart heal, and the health drain can be offset by standing in refreshing path.

    4. Sap Essence is only useful for dungeon trash. On trash packs spamming it will keep everyone healed and do 30k+ dps

    5. PvE isn’t my thing, I went on PTS to look at values but haven’t tried it in a dungeon or trial. Single target healing has been buffed like crazy so the advantage of using a NB healer’s sort of diluted, I’m not sure how it will play out.

    Here’s my spec for pve on live with two flex spots:
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=153880

    Ty for the answer !

    Build look good 🤔 i am not sure about mending for next patch because Sap Essence will do the same thing (but 300 instead of the 430 from mending, so is 730 usefull ? I dont Know !)

    RIP our Master Resto Staff next patch :'(

    An other question : why dont you use funnel health ? With all the damage you got (debilitate, blockade, SAP essence, ult...) it looks great no ?

    And a last question : the flash heal can target you ? I didnt manage to...
    I also try some stuff yesterday and find out that you cant purge the debuff, this can be tricky during some fight... 🤔
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    danara wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    danara wrote: »
    Hi everyone,

    after working on the warden, i want to know what make nb healer special.

    From what i heared they can do very well but they are hard to play. i want to understand why. I cant find any

    Consider that the context of this question is Vet Trial HM



    1) Can a nb Healer be a part of a competitive trial ? From what i see i can only imagine that nb healer are really strong on dunjeon, but proove me wrong (i really want to !) ^^

    2) Is the nb healer hard to play because your healing is depending of your dps?

    3) Which spell should i use? I dont know if the "flash heal" of the nb is nice, considering that you have Healing Ward (even more in scalebreaker)

    4) I dont understand the "Sap Essence" spell, i mean, is it usefull? i dont see in which case it is usefull

    5) Someone try it on pts?

    Thanks guys

    I never got to the point where I was healing Vet HM, but I’ve healed a lot of vets. Main thing about NB healing you have to realize is a lot of the NB healing abilities are jacked and unusable, stick to key abilities and you’ll do fine.

    1. Yes, downside of a NB healer is lack of synergies and no unique buff (like warden minor endurance). When I did things like HoF Vet people said it was one of their smoothest runs.

    2. No, steer clear of any ability where the healing is tied to damage. Those are the undertuned abilities and avoiding them is what makes NB healing work.

    3. Healthy Offering is the largest single target burst heal in the game, and also the best. It costs no mana, is larger then breath of life, it’s a smart heal, and the health drain can be offset by standing in refreshing path.

    4. Sap Essence is only useful for dungeon trash. On trash packs spamming it will keep everyone healed and do 30k+ dps

    5. PvE isn’t my thing, I went on PTS to look at values but haven’t tried it in a dungeon or trial. Single target healing has been buffed like crazy so the advantage of using a NB healer’s sort of diluted, I’m not sure how it will play out.

    Here’s my spec for pve on live with two flex spots:
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=153880

    Ty for the answer !

    Build look good 🤔 i am not sure about mending for next patch because Sap Essence will do the same thing (but 300 instead of the 430 from mending, so is 730 usefull ? I dont Know !)

    RIP our Master Resto Staff next patch :'(

    An other question : why dont you use funnel health ? With all the damage you got (debilitate, blockade, SAP essence, ult...) it looks great no ?

    And a last question : the flash heal can target you ? I didnt manage to...
    I also try some stuff yesterday and find out that you cant purge the debuff, this can be tricky during some fight... 🤔

    Funnel health is terribad. The damage is too low to be effective (I think light attack spam does more damage then weaving this ability, and if you use Siphoning Strikes it probably heals for less too). I think it has to be the worst ability in the game, hands down, and since skill slots are valuable I’d never use it. The only place it’s semi-viable is on a magblade dps who buffs their damage as much as possible and is at max pen.

    Yea, healthy Offering can’t heal yourself, only others. There’s a trick to using it, well in pvp...

    The health dot from Healthy Offering scales with your magicka and sp, but not with crit or +healing modifiers. What I do in pvp is stack crit and +healing modifiers (as much as I can) to reduce the dot and make it heal for as much as possible. Outside pvp I don’t worry about it too much, NB healing is really strong and refreshing path is good. The damage is predictable and so’s your healing.

    Refreshing path on PTS is up to 2k or so tooltip per target. Ritual has relatively caught up, but it’s still the strongest healing usable ground effect... I think.

    If the group is stacked in front of you NB healing is strong, maybe the strongest (Minor mending + 3% healing passive per Siphoning ability) where you’ll have issues is spread out fights. I had issues in VetCR but found VetHoF played to NBs strengths and it was easier on my NB then Templar, I always have issues when people run around like a chicken with their heads cut off, not execute.

    NB also plays better as a pure healer then damage/healing mix specs btw... on live at least. I got just a little bit higher dps on my Templar then my NB on trash and boss fights, debilitate helps but shards is crazy strong. I stopped PvE for the most part after getting all the monster helms in every weight, my opinion might be a little out of date for pve, but I pvp heal as a NB.

    For debuffs there’s shade and Lotus fan, but those buffs/debuffs will come from a tank and Necro in pve, in pvp they’re good. In a trial they’re covered. Be careful with Lotus Fan, it’s a really fun ability and once you start using it you can’t stop, you’ll be porting into 1 shot mechanics.
    Edited by Iskiab on August 1, 2019 4:58PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Marginis
    Marginis
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Iskiab wrote: »
    If the group is stacked in front of you NB healing is strong, maybe the strongest (Minor mending + 3% healing passive per Siphoning ability) where you’ll have issues is spread out fights.

    This. Definitely this.
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
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