VMA DW Change - Yay or Nay?

kaizen914

Title says it all. I'm a fan of the change. VMA needed to stay relevant without being BiS for every spec.

Excelsus

Nay

They gutted the damage and lowered the skill ceiling. Which seems to be a running theme. Vma dual wield rewarded good sustain and rotation. Now it gives mediocre damage for everyone. So yeah... all hail our new Maarselok overlord for every stam spec.

Muzzick

As someone who only plays vMA only for the weapons, I'm glad I didn't start farming dw before patch

colossalvoids

Nay

Like they always loved to say "we're killing it!".

The whole game balance now is to make everything easier to use, more safe for a new players, "friendly" you name it, idk but it's not what I personally want from the game.

Lord_Eomer

50% damage nerf is a way overkill!

Good luck VMA dual wield, your times up even before having some good time.

ArenGesus

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

50% damage nerf is a way overkill!

Good luck VMA dual wield, your times up even before having some good time.

It's not a 50% nerf though, is it? The way I read it, the buff can apply to multiple dots instead of just the first cast. Still not sure I like it, just saying that it should equate to less than 50% nerf?

Girl_Number8

Nay

This happens with a lot of games they water it down for the noobs and just spit on anyone with skill that has been playing loyally for years.

This is going to be a bland dlc

kaizen914

ArenGesus wrote: »

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Lord_Eomer wrote: »

50% damage nerf is a way overkill!

Good luck VMA dual wield, your times up even before having some good time.

It's not a 50% nerf though, is it? The way I read it, the buff can apply to multiple dots instead of just the first cast. Still not sure I like it, just saying that it should equate to less than 50% nerf?

Well I think it will be easier to maintain 100% DoT uptime with this change. Can also work on another damage dealing ability (I'm thinking quick cloak for trials) to take some of the sting off.

Lord_Eomer

ArenGesus wrote: »

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Lord_Eomer wrote: »

50% damage nerf is a way overkill!

Good luck VMA dual wield, your times up even before having some good time.

It's not a 50% nerf though, is it? The way I read it, the buff can apply to multiple dots instead of just the first cast. Still not sure I like it, just saying that it should equate to less than 50% nerf?

Yea i misread, its now a buff to any dots used with in 4 second.

Still not bad!

Evito

Yay

ArenGesus wrote: »

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Lord_Eomer wrote: »

50% damage nerf is a way overkill!

Good luck VMA dual wield, your times up even before having some good time.

It's not a 50% nerf though, is it? The way I read it, the buff can apply to multiple dots instead of just the first cast. Still not sure I like it, just saying that it should equate to less than 50% nerf?

50% nerf to cruel flurry is all it is.

troomar

ArenGesus wrote: »

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Lord_Eomer wrote: »

50% damage nerf is a way overkill!

Good luck VMA dual wield, your times up even before having some good time.

It's not a 50% nerf though, is it? The way I read it, the buff can apply to multiple dots instead of just the first cast. Still not sure I like it, just saying that it should equate to less than 50% nerf?

It doesn't matter because you still apply the same amount of Flurry regardless.
Just instead of "Flurry -> DoT -> Flurry -> DoT -> Flurry -> DoT -> Flurry" it will be "Flurry -> DoT -> DoT -> DoT -> Flurry -> Flurry -> Flurry"

Damage wise it's 50 % nerf, the difference is that it will be easier to use it in a real trial. On a dummy on PTS vMA daggers were parsing 100k+ (on live it's 90k+), but it wasn't easy to use it in a trial. Now it will be easier.

santomitob16_ESO

Nay

Multiple target that sound very good I like it....just a moment ......is rending slashes now an AOE dot....is poison injection now an AOE dot...or is trap beast now an AOE damage......ooohhhh wait soul splitting trap is now a have AOE dot...puhhhhh i thought that VMA dual wield weapon where now completed useless but now with the new change for soul splitting trap this will change everything. Special on so less enemy boss fights

I have one more good idea for you. Caustic Arrow should only apply damage increase on AOE damage. Otherwise it is in the current state overpowered and should not go on live server.............
....................

To be sure if one of you high salary dev can't read between the lines...search on web for the word "Irony" or go on wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony

Thx

kaizen914

troomar wrote: »

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ArenGesus wrote: »

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

50% damage nerf is a way overkill!

Good luck VMA dual wield, your times up even before having some good time.

It's not a 50% nerf though, is it? The way I read it, the buff can apply to multiple dots instead of just the first cast. Still not sure I like it, just saying that it should equate to less than 50% nerf?

It doesn't matter because you still apply the same amount of Flurry regardless.
Just instead of "Flurry -> DoT -> Flurry -> DoT -> Flurry -> DoT -> Flurry" it will be "Flurry -> DoT -> DoT -> DoT -> Flurry -> Flurry -> Flurry"

Damage wise it's 50 % nerf, the difference is that it will be easier to use it in a real trial. On a dummy on PTS vMA daggers were parsing 100k+ (on live it's 90k+), but it wasn't easy to use it in a trial. Now it will be easier.

With the new system you can keep 100% DoT, 100% trap uptime, and 90-100% archer/hurricane uptime while now having almost 100% deadly cloak uptime.

I'll need to test it but dps might increase because of the added flexibility.

troomar

kaizen914 wrote: »

With the new system you can keep 100% DoT, 100% trap uptime, and 90-100% archer/hurricane uptime while now having almost 100% deadly cloak uptime.

I'll need to test it but dps might increase because of the added flexibility.

Well, yeah, there will be some hidden bonuses, like the better uptimes of other skills. But ultimately the question remains the same - is it better to use a monster set or vMA daggers? We will see.

Zalathorm

Nay

Some assumptions here are wrong. People are throwing in blade cloak, hurricane, etc type dots.

It clearly says TARGET APPLIED DOTS.

So not ground based dots. Not self casted dots. It will be the same dots as before (including soul trap)

troomar

Zalathorm wrote: »

Some assumptions here are wrong. People are throwing in blade cloak, hurricane, etc type dots.

It clearly says TARGET APPLIED DOTS.

So not ground based dots. Not self casted dots. It will be the same dots as before (including soul trap)

It's not like that. The argument about Hurricane is based on different thing. Let me explain.

Right now on Live you have to use Flurry -> DoT rinse and repeat. It's hard to squeeze Hurricane to this rotation, because Rearming Trap has higher priority and it also eats the effect from vMA from the second proc. So you need to be careful when going to back bar. So people tend to postpone Hurricane and don't cast it on cooldown.

On PTS before this update it was still hard to keep skills like Hurricane or Deadly cloak on 100% uptime, because they just had lower priority than single target DoTs.

On PTS after this update, @kaizen914 suggests that the 50% damage nerf to vMA will be somehow mitigated by the fact that you will be able to keep 100% uptime on skills like Hurricane or Deadly cloak.

Evito

Yay

I did 2 parses with stamsorc , the first was 100k the second was 101k. Seems fine and still strong, I was getting 103k before this patch, 2k dps loss isn't a big deal and it's a lot nicer to use - (additionally I'm using the consuming trap morph of soul trap but it's showing in cmx as soul splitting trap and it's doing lower damage.. which I guess is a bug)

MashmalloMan

Yay

Evito wrote: »

I did 2 parses with stamsorc , the first was 100k the second was 101k. Seems fine and still strong, I was getting 103k before this patch, 2k dps loss isn't a big deal and it's a lot nicer to use - (additionally I'm using the consuming trap morph of soul trap but it's showing in cmx as soul splitting trap and it's doing lower damage.. which I guess is a bug)

Well I kind of like the look of the changes, stam sorc always benefited rather nicely from Cruel Furry because it buffed Atro while you had the buff active in standby, Atro didn't consume it. Any time you consumed the buff for another ability the Atro lost the 2k damage.

With the changes. You will see close to 100% uptime on the 1k damage for Atro since it's not being swapped on and off, you can also go back to front barring Hurricane for higher uptime and an easier rotation.

I'm curious if Deadly Cloak is worth it. When I last looked, 9 ticks over 8s tooltip damage was less than most spammables in the game. Just seems useful for some extra aoe/mitigation if you can afford the bar space.

Skysenzz

Nay

I'm really scared about stamdk; used to hit really hard even in this patch, if they just reduce again our dots... Idk i'll wait for the parses.

Bladerunner1

It seems excessive, but maybe I can see it still working on a DK if it buffs 6 dots fairly easily, I'll have to check it out later

Flurry
Rending Slashes
Venemous Claw
Soul Trap
Flurry
Noxious Breath
Barbed Trap
Poison Injection or Carve

And then room for Flames of Oblivion and Stampede or Barrage

SirDopey

Nay

50% damage reduction was too much

The_Last_Titan

Nay

troomar wrote: »

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Zalathorm wrote: »

Some assumptions here are wrong. People are throwing in blade cloak, hurricane, etc type dots.

It clearly says TARGET APPLIED DOTS.

So not ground based dots. Not self casted dots. It will be the same dots as before (including soul trap)

It's not like that. The argument about Hurricane is based on different thing. Let me explain.

Right now on Live you have to use Flurry -> DoT rinse and repeat. It's hard to squeeze Hurricane to this rotation, because Rearming Trap has higher priority and it also eats the effect from vMA from the second proc. So you need to be careful when going to back bar. So people tend to postpone Hurricane and don't cast it on cooldown.

On PTS before this update it was still hard to keep skills like Hurricane or Deadly cloak on 100% uptime, because they just had lower priority than single target DoTs.

On PTS after this update, @kaizen914 suggests that the 50% damage nerf to vMA will be somehow mitigated by the fact that you will be able to keep 100% uptime on skills like Hurricane or Deadly cloak.

so i will have higher up times on weaker abilities then previous ones... Cool, i guess

The_Last_Titan

Nay

But yeah Nay, and in pvp also, if im mixing in heals/rolls/breakfrees/stuns i'm not casting that many more dots in 4 seconds than 1. two instead of three in the time span maybe compared to pve. I would prefer something else.

edit: would be a little better if bleeds from dw passive did get modified too though not sure yet, haven't tested They do not

MashmalloMan

Yay

The_Last_Titan wrote: »

But yeah Nay, and in pvp also, if im mixing in heals/rolls/breakfrees/stuns i'm not casting that many more dots in 4 seconds than 1. two instead of three in the time span maybe. I would prefer something else.

edit: would be a little better if bleeds from dw passive did get modified too though not sure yet, haven't tested

I'm guessing they do since they're "Single Target Applied dots" as stated in the patch notes.

Evito

Yay

Marshall1289 wrote: »

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Evito wrote: »

I did 2 parses with stamsorc , the first was 100k the second was 101k. Seems fine and still strong, I was getting 103k before this patch, 2k dps loss isn't a big deal and it's a lot nicer to use - (additionally I'm using the consuming trap morph of soul trap but it's showing in cmx as soul splitting trap and it's doing lower damage.. which I guess is a bug)

Well I kind of like the look of the changes, stam sorc always benefited rather nicely from Cruel Furry because it buffed Atro while you had the buff active in standby, Atro didn't consume it. Any time you consumed the buff for another ability the Atro lost the 2k damage.

With the changes. You will see close to 100% uptime on the 1k damage for Atro since it's not being swapped on and off, you can also go back to front barring Hurricane for higher uptime and an easier rotation.

I'm curious if Deadly Cloak is worth it. When I last looked, 9 ticks over 8s tooltip damage was less than most spammables in the game. Just seems useful for some extra aoe/mitigation if you can afford the bar space.

Adding Deadly Cloak is interesting, DPS wise it's pretty much the same as Hurricane, but as you pointed out, bar space is an issue, and if you want to keep Hurricane on the front bar it's actually difficult to keep everything buffed.

I parsed a bit lower with it but I wouldn't be shocked to see people parse well with it, it could certainly have a place in AOE rotations at least.

ccfeeling

Thanks the nerf

The_Last_Titan

Nay

Marshall1289 wrote: »

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The_Last_Titan wrote: »

But yeah Nay, and in pvp also, if im mixing in heals/rolls/breakfrees/stuns i'm not casting that many more dots in 4 seconds than 1. two instead of three in the time span maybe. I would prefer something else.

edit: would be a little better if bleeds from dw passive did get modified too though not sure yet, haven't tested

I'm guessing they do since they're "Single Target Applied dots" as stated in the patch notes.

says "cast within", makes me think no unless its like a skill cast. I guess we will know soon

Edit: doesn't buff dw bleed proc, or its own damage in case anyone was wondering

kaizen914

So my stamcro dps dropped from 102.1k to 101k using vma and a static rotation.

Have seen a parse for 106k.

Overall I prefer this version of maelstrom over the previous version.

Stamsorc is down slightly more (from 100k to maybe 96k) but it can now run a blade cloak morph

WeylandLabs

Nay

Another win for PvE players... Smh Can somebody carrie me 24/7 pleeeeeeeeze ! 😂

VMA another useless dungeon...

Due to a test dummies parse in no real gameplay enviorment scenario. Keep that in mind where how ZOS is gauging it's nerfs now. Popularity - and bias feedback from mag players complaining about highest dps. - the real competition for pve players are test dummie parses. Aka Gutiar hero scores

Think about really quick 🤔

Morgul667

Nay

I dont undetstand the change

St_Anger

Nay

I've seen people say that the dps went down only by a small margine, which is good, but I still prefered the old version, because it made for a fun and skillfull rotation, where you had to alternate rapid strikes with the dots. This increased the skillcap and made of a more fun rotation, because I hate chaining channeled abilities. I would have much prefered a nerv from 2003 to somewhere in the vicinity of 1500 but keeping the old functionality of only applying to the next dot.

So a "yay" for the amount of damage nerfed, but overall still a "nay" for functionality and skillcap change!