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(IMO) Removing Major Expedition From Shuffle Was Unnecessary
Vapirko
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This is just my opinion but I think removing major expedition from shuffle was entirely uncalled for and here's why.
First off both light and heavy armor have access to Race Against Time which features both snare removal and major expedition (and of course minor force). Additionally, unlike medium, light and heavy armor have the defenses to deal with damage without Major Evasion. And as a side note, medium is still the one armor type with a passive that is entirely useless outside of stealth play styles. If medium had something like crit resist instead of that, then this argument wouldn't be as applicable.
Secondly, the major expedition buff previously attached to shuffle and currently attached to elude (which will go entirely unused) is quite conditional and requires that you are taking AoE damage to activate unlike Forward momentum or Race against time which can both be activated at will. What this means is that medium armor will still be at a mobility disadvantage next to heavy and light armor since the major expedition wont be any use when trying to kite or evade groups of opponents. It will also be of little to no use 1v1 unlike Race against time which has the minor force.
In conclusion I think that some measure of major expedition should be given back to shuffle perhaps at the expense of slightly shorter snare immunity. So maybe a flat 4 seconds of immunity and add back in the expedition after taking AoE damage. What I really dont want to see here is yet another year or whatever where medium still just inst worth running over heavy armor. Race against time is still so good that running heavy is very viable and very mobile. Imo shuffle cant make up for the glaring weaknesses of medium especially without some form of expedition. Should shuffle go live as is I would honestly probably just stick to heavy.
Thanks for your time.
First off both light and heavy armor have access to Race Against Time which features both snare removal and major expedition (and of course minor force). Additionally, unlike medium, light and heavy armor have the defenses to deal with damage without Major Evasion. And as a side note, medium is still the one armor type with a passive that is entirely useless outside of stealth play styles. If medium had something like crit resist instead of that, then this argument wouldn't be as applicable.
Secondly, the major expedition buff previously attached to shuffle and currently attached to elude (which will go entirely unused) is quite conditional and requires that you are taking AoE damage to activate unlike Forward momentum or Race against time which can both be activated at will. What this means is that medium armor will still be at a mobility disadvantage next to heavy and light armor since the major expedition wont be any use when trying to kite or evade groups of opponents. It will also be of little to no use 1v1 unlike Race against time which has the minor force.
In conclusion I think that some measure of major expedition should be given back to shuffle perhaps at the expense of slightly shorter snare immunity. So maybe a flat 4 seconds of immunity and add back in the expedition after taking AoE damage. What I really dont want to see here is yet another year or whatever where medium still just inst worth running over heavy armor. Race against time is still so good that running heavy is very viable and very mobile. Imo shuffle cant make up for the glaring weaknesses of medium especially without some form of expedition. Should shuffle go live as is I would honestly probably just stick to heavy.
Thanks for your time.
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KingExecration✭✭✭✭I advocate no. Dropping any aoes on my dk or Templar will make fighting stam builds like an old man playing tag with usain bolt. Since light and heavy have access to race against time what’s stopping medium? It’s a utility skill.8 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭I would rather have longer snare immunity than have the major expedition tbh, there are plenty of sources for major expedition. Anyways what the previous 2 sec speed buff did was just guarantee you to have major exp while fighting, but wouldnt help to break away from enemies since it is so short they would probably catch up.3
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kalunte✭✭✭✭✭i think that the major expedition procing from aoe dmg taken will help a lot against non-snaring aoe and not that much against others, still it'll be potentially more helpfull than RaT.
what we may lack is a source if snare immunity that isnt bind to a skill which grants major expedition or major evasion to have it synergize with elude for ppl who loves their freedom
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MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Pretty sure on the PTS, Elude gives 2s major expedition at base, +1s per piece, with most people using 5 or 6 pieces, that's 7/8s of major expedition on any direct aoe damage. That's pretty strong unless everyone bands together to not use Direct aoe damage.
I'd propose adding an active element to the ability instead, that offers Elude the major expedition on demand instead of just when taking damage.
I'm thinking about trying elude out. Instead of HA, FM, Quick Cloak and Resolving Vigor, I will be trying MA, FM/Streak, Elude and (Buffed)Resolving Vigor, never fancied Rally too much.
If you give Major Expedition back to Shuffle, Elude becomes completely irrelevant even though it's already slightly irrelevant when you look at what Quick Cloak provides. Now more damage and reduced cost for HA builds, with slight reduction in time from 15 to 12.
Really.. Major Evasion should be completely removed from Blade Cloak and offered something else. It's rewarding HA too easily. Shuffle is GREAT the way it is.Edited by MashmalloMan on July 28, 2019 9:17PMPC Beta - 2200+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KingExecration wrote: »I advocate no. Dropping any aoes on my dk or Templar will make fighting stam builds like an old man playing tag with usain bolt. Since light and heavy have access to race against time what’s stopping medium? It’s a utility skill.
Because medium armor needs the major evasion and there is no room for both. Sorry you want people to not have counterplay against your style, sounds like a L2P issue.Edited by Vapirko on July 28, 2019 9:57PM1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Marshall1289 wrote: »Pretty sure on the PTS, Elude gives 2s major expedition at base, +1s per piece, with most people using 5 or 6 pieces, that's 7/8s of major expedition on any direct aoe damage. That's pretty strong unless everyone bands together to not use Direct aoe damage.
I'd propose adding an active element to the ability instead, that offers Elude the major expedition on demand instead of just when taking damage.
I'm thinking about trying elude out. Instead of HA, FM, Quick Cloak and Resolving Vigor, I will be trying MA, FM/Streak, Elude and (Buffed)Resolving Vigor, never fancied Rally too much.
If you give Major Expedition back to Shuffle, Elude becomes completely irrelevant even though it's already slightly irrelevant when you look at what Quick Cloak provides. Now more damage and reduced cost for HA builds, with slight reduction in time from 15 to 12.
Really.. Major Evasion should be completely removed from Blade Cloak and offered something else. It's rewarding HA too easily. Shuffle is GREAT the way it is.
Well on a stamina sorc you might be right. You’ve got streak and Major Expediton already so Elude might work for you.0 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭Marshall1289 wrote: »Pretty sure on the PTS, Elude gives 2s major expedition at base, +1s per piece, with most people using 5 or 6 pieces, that's 7/8s of major expedition on any direct aoe damage. That's pretty strong unless everyone bands together to not use Direct aoe damage.
I'd propose adding an active element to the ability instead, that offers Elude the major expedition on demand instead of just when taking damage.
I'm thinking about trying elude out. Instead of HA, FM, Quick Cloak and Resolving Vigor, I will be trying MA, FM/Streak, Elude and (Buffed)Resolving Vigor, never fancied Rally too much.
If you give Major Expedition back to Shuffle, Elude becomes completely irrelevant even though it's already slightly irrelevant when you look at what Quick Cloak provides. Now more damage and reduced cost for HA builds, with slight reduction in time from 15 to 12.
Really.. Major Evasion should be completely removed from Blade Cloak and offered something else. It's rewarding HA too easily. Shuffle is GREAT the way it is.
Well on a stamina sorc you might be right. You’ve got streak and Major Expediton already so Elude might work for you.
Elude works fine if you are also using Race against Time.2 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »Marshall1289 wrote: »Pretty sure on the PTS, Elude gives 2s major expedition at base, +1s per piece, with most people using 5 or 6 pieces, that's 7/8s of major expedition on any direct aoe damage. That's pretty strong unless everyone bands together to not use Direct aoe damage.
I'd propose adding an active element to the ability instead, that offers Elude the major expedition on demand instead of just when taking damage.
I'm thinking about trying elude out. Instead of HA, FM, Quick Cloak and Resolving Vigor, I will be trying MA, FM/Streak, Elude and (Buffed)Resolving Vigor, never fancied Rally too much.
If you give Major Expedition back to Shuffle, Elude becomes completely irrelevant even though it's already slightly irrelevant when you look at what Quick Cloak provides. Now more damage and reduced cost for HA builds, with slight reduction in time from 15 to 12.
Really.. Major Evasion should be completely removed from Blade Cloak and offered something else. It's rewarding HA too easily. Shuffle is GREAT the way it is.
Well on a stamina sorc you might be right. You’ve got streak and Major Expediton already so Elude might work for you.
Elude works fine if you are also using Race against Time.
I mean if you can fit both those skills on your bar then sure. Personally I cant imagine howd youd find room while also having all the necessary buffs/debuffs and damage skills.2 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Marshall1289 wrote: »Pretty sure on the PTS, Elude gives 2s major expedition at base, +1s per piece, with most people using 5 or 6 pieces, that's 7/8s of major expedition on any direct aoe damage. That's pretty strong unless everyone bands together to not use Direct aoe damage.
I'd propose adding an active element to the ability instead, that offers Elude the major expedition on demand instead of just when taking damage.
I'm thinking about trying elude out. Instead of HA, FM, Quick Cloak and Resolving Vigor, I will be trying MA, FM/Streak, Elude and (Buffed)Resolving Vigor, never fancied Rally too much.
If you give Major Expedition back to Shuffle, Elude becomes completely irrelevant even though it's already slightly irrelevant when you look at what Quick Cloak provides. Now more damage and reduced cost for HA builds, with slight reduction in time from 15 to 12.
Really.. Major Evasion should be completely removed from Blade Cloak and offered something else. It's rewarding HA too easily. Shuffle is GREAT the way it is.
Well on a stamina sorc you might be right. You’ve got streak and Major Expediton already so Elude might work for you.
Stam Sorc has Minor Expedition, not Major. I'd get Major from Elude, Streak not sure if I could sustain it or if it's worth using over FM in MA, but I'd like to try and make it work.
I don't understand your train of thought here though:Secondly, the major expedition buff previously attached to shuffle and currently attached to elude (which will go entirely unused) is quite conditional and requires that you are taking AoE damage to activate unlike Forward momentum or Race against time which can both be activated at will. What this means is that medium armor will still be at a mobility disadvantage next to heavy and light armor since the major expedition wont be any use when trying to kite or evade groups of opponents. It will also be of little to no use 1v1 unlike Race against time which has the minor force.
If Elude is undervalued in your opinion, shouldn't we look at Elude? What makes Elude "entirely unused", adding Major Expedition back to Shuffle is definitely not going to fix that problem.
My major concerns as to why HA outpaces MA:
1) Quick Cloak provides Major Evasion and Major Expedition to HA builds, now cheaper than on Live. Why make HA tankier and quicker when both of those are major tools for MA's defense. I currently use this on live because it's so strong.
2) I can't see RAT on HA being as big of an issue as you lead on. At least from a Stam Sorc and Stam DK perspective, I have very little mag sustain left for a 3k+ mag utility skill that only provides 2s immunity and Minor Force isn't make or break when crit chance is so low in HA to begin with, in BG's crit is practically useless. Admittedly I don't slot it, so maybe someone else has better experience, but I see it as mainly a LA tool. You give up a lot of mitigation by swapping Quick Cloak for RAT, it also just got buffed in damage with 500 less stam cost.
3) Shuffle in 6 medium provides great freedom of movement you can't get anywhere else, that's what helps make it unique. Attaching on demand 4s major expedition and 5-7s immunity together is too much in 1 GCD, exactly why they nerfed the 4s on RAT to begin with.Edited by MashmalloMan on July 29, 2019 12:31AMPC Beta - 2200+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit1 -
KingExecration✭✭✭✭KingExecration wrote: »I advocate no. Dropping any aoes on my dk or Templar will make fighting stam builds like an old man playing tag with usain bolt. Since light and heavy have access to race against time what’s stopping medium? It’s a utility skill.
Because medium armor needs the major evasion and there is no room for both. Sorry you want people to not have counterplay against your style, sounds like a L2P issue.
I’m not having any troubles on my medium stam sorc or my medium stamden. Adding such speed to my stam sorc or stamden would make me feel like sonic. It’s a funny thing saying “L2P” to me when you’re begging for buffs but I’m doing just fine. But what you’re saying with medium “needing” major evasion doesn’t stand. You get the skill you’re asking for in quick cloak. Major expedition and major *wait for it* evasion. If you got blackrose dual wield you also get major protection at your disposal when you want it.1 -
Anethum✭✭✭✭KingExecration wrote: »I advocate no. Dropping any aoes on my dk or Templar will make fighting stam builds like an old man playing tag with usain bolt. Since light and heavy have access to race against time what’s stopping medium? It’s a utility skill.
Because medium armor needs the major evasion and there is no room for both. Sorry you want people to not have counterplay against your style, sounds like a L2P issue.
Shuffle never needed expedition embedded. To be honest I wondered someone tryed to add expedition to shuffle. Too OP skill in such case.
It's op even with just new superlong duration and reduced cost.
Unhealthy for gameplay in general imho.
KingExecration is right.
And Your position is l2p issue, not his.@Anethum from .ua0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KingExecration wrote: »I advocate no. Dropping any aoes on my dk or Templar will make fighting stam builds like an old man playing tag with usain bolt. Since light and heavy have access to race against time what’s stopping medium? It’s a utility skill.
Because medium armor needs the major evasion and there is no room for both. Sorry you want people to not have counterplay against your style, sounds like a L2P issue.
Shuffle never needed expedition embedded. To be honest I wondered someone tryed to add expedition to shuffle. Too OP skill in such case.
It's op even with just new superlong duration and reduced cost.
Unhealthy for gameplay in general imho.
KingExecration is right.
And Your position is l2p issue, not his.
Hmm okayy. Except Im not worried about giving people more mobility lol. Nor do I need it to be successful as I already win almost all fights I get into, but I think medium armor deserves more as a LONG time stamina player who has gone through a LOT of different builds and playstyles.1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KingExecration wrote: »KingExecration wrote: »I advocate no. Dropping any aoes on my dk or Templar will make fighting stam builds like an old man playing tag with usain bolt. Since light and heavy have access to race against time what’s stopping medium? It’s a utility skill.
Because medium armor needs the major evasion and there is no room for both. Sorry you want people to not have counterplay against your style, sounds like a L2P issue.
I’m not having any troubles on my medium stam sorc or my medium stamden. Adding such speed to my stam sorc or stamden would make me feel like sonic. It’s a funny thing saying “L2P” to me when you’re begging for buffs but I’m doing just fine. But what you’re saying with medium “needing” major evasion doesn’t stand. You get the skill you’re asking for in quick cloak. Major expedition and major *wait for it* evasion. If you got blackrose dual wield you also get major protection at your disposal when you want it.
Lol youve named the two stamina classes that already have access to major expedition so obviously youre not having trouble lol. Sheesh. And stamina warden is perhaps the most overtuned stamina class rn. Not much of an argument. But anyway I still hold that if you cant deal wiht people having a bit more mobility on an armor class which is currently a joke, then im sorry but that is in fact a L2P issue.0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Marshall1289 wrote: »Marshall1289 wrote: »Pretty sure on the PTS, Elude gives 2s major expedition at base, +1s per piece, with most people using 5 or 6 pieces, that's 7/8s of major expedition on any direct aoe damage. That's pretty strong unless everyone bands together to not use Direct aoe damage.
I'd propose adding an active element to the ability instead, that offers Elude the major expedition on demand instead of just when taking damage.
I'm thinking about trying elude out. Instead of HA, FM, Quick Cloak and Resolving Vigor, I will be trying MA, FM/Streak, Elude and (Buffed)Resolving Vigor, never fancied Rally too much.
If you give Major Expedition back to Shuffle, Elude becomes completely irrelevant even though it's already slightly irrelevant when you look at what Quick Cloak provides. Now more damage and reduced cost for HA builds, with slight reduction in time from 15 to 12.
Really.. Major Evasion should be completely removed from Blade Cloak and offered something else. It's rewarding HA too easily. Shuffle is GREAT the way it is.
Well on a stamina sorc you might be right. You’ve got streak and Major Expediton already so Elude might work for you.
Stam Sorc has Minor Expedition, not Major. I'd get Major from Elude, Streak not sure if I could sustain it or if it's worth using over FM in MA, but I'd like to try and make it work.
I don't understand your train of thought here though:Secondly, the major expedition buff previously attached to shuffle and currently attached to elude (which will go entirely unused) is quite conditional and requires that you are taking AoE damage to activate unlike Forward momentum or Race against time which can both be activated at will. What this means is that medium armor will still be at a mobility disadvantage next to heavy and light armor since the major expedition wont be any use when trying to kite or evade groups of opponents. It will also be of little to no use 1v1 unlike Race against time which has the minor force.
If Elude is undervalued in your opinion, shouldn't we look at Elude? What makes Elude "entirely unused", adding Major Expedition back to Shuffle is definitely not going to fix that problem.
My major concerns as to why HA outpaces MA:
1) Quick Cloak provides Major Evasion and Major Expedition to HA builds, now cheaper than on Live. Why make HA tankier and quicker when both of those are major tools for MA's defense. I currently use this on live because it's so strong.
2) I can't see RAT on HA being as big of an issue as you lead on. At least from a Stam Sorc and Stam DK perspective, I have very little mag sustain left for a 3k+ mag utility skill that only provides 2s immunity and Minor Force isn't make or break when crit chance is so low in HA to begin with, in BG's crit is practically useless. Admittedly I don't slot it, so maybe someone else has better experience, but I see it as mainly a LA tool. You give up a lot of mitigation by swapping Quick Cloak for RAT, it also just got buffed in damage with 500 less stam cost.
3) Shuffle in 6 medium provides great freedom of movement you can't get anywhere else, that's what helps make it unique. Attaching on demand 4s major expedition and 5-7s immunity together is too much in 1 GCD, exactly why they nerfed the 4s on RAT to begin with.
I talk about RAT because I use it on my stamplar and its very strong. Not OP but strong. No ones gonna wear six medium aside from maybe NBs. Im not talking about 4s expedition, Im thinking like 2. Just a bit of a boost and I really do think medium deserves that. As the patch notes currently stand I still dont think there will be much reason to run medium over heavy and the heavy armor damage meta will continue.0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You can run elude with Forward Momentum. You trade the burst heal of rally to basically get the speed in elude, which now has a value that shuffle does not.1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You can run elude with Forward Momentum. You trade the burst heal of rally to basically get the speed in elude, which now has a value that shuffle does not.
But again, this is medium armor were talking about. Could be viable if Vigor stays really strong or on certain classes like Stam Warden, but Vigor is likely to be nerfed before this patch goes live and heavy armor will benefit from it more than medium. Basically I dont think wearing medium armor should feel like youre putting yourself at a distinct disadvantage. Maybe this could all pan out if theyre planning on turning the stealht passive into something useful.Edited by Vapirko on July 29, 2019 2:19PM0 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭it was as it's game breaking when facing a stamblade that would vanish and run to the other side of the map in 2 sec0
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master_vanargand✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shuffle's Major Expedition has been removed as Crybaby shouted.
I am fed up with Crybaby Shouts.1 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭master_vanargand wrote: »Shuffle's Major Expedition has been removed as Crybaby shouted.
I am fed up with Crybaby Shouts.
What's with you and babies that cry, starting to think you have a vendetta against them?PC Beta - 2200+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit0 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭KingExecration wrote: »I’m not having any troubles on my medium stam sorc or my medium stamden. Adding such speed to my stam sorc or stamden would make me feel like sonic. It’s a funny thing saying “L2P” to me when you’re begging for buffs but I’m doing just fine. But what you’re saying with medium “needing” major evasion doesn’t stand. You get the skill you’re asking for in quick cloak. Major expedition and major *wait for it* evasion. If you got blackrose dual wield you also get major protection at your disposal when you want it.Lol youve named the two stamina classes that already have access to major expedition so obviously youre not having trouble lol. Sheesh. And stamina warden is perhaps the most overtuned stamina class rn. Not much of an argument. But anyway I still hold that if you cant deal wiht people having a bit more mobility on an armor class which is currently a joke, then im sorry but that is in fact a L2P issue.
Why do you think Stam Sorc has Major Expedition?Edited by MashmalloMan on July 29, 2019 4:33PMPC Beta - 2200+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Marshall1289 wrote: »KingExecration wrote: »I’m not having any troubles on my medium stam sorc or my medium stamden. Adding such speed to my stam sorc or stamden would make me feel like sonic. It’s a funny thing saying “L2P” to me when you’re begging for buffs but I’m doing just fine. But what you’re saying with medium “needing” major evasion doesn’t stand. You get the skill you’re asking for in quick cloak. Major expedition and major *wait for it* evasion. If you got blackrose dual wield you also get major protection at your disposal when you want it.Lol youve named the two stamina classes that already have access to major expedition so obviously youre not having trouble lol. Sheesh. And stamina warden is perhaps the most overtuned stamina class rn. Not much of an argument. But anyway I still hold that if you cant deal wiht people having a bit more mobility on an armor class which is currently a joke, then im sorry but that is in fact a L2P issue.
Why do you think Stam Sorc has Major Expedition?
Sorry meant minor from hurricane. But either way youre still picking another class with speed boost built in.0 -
Abhaya✭✭✭✭IMO the major expedition getting removed is fine. That being said I still see a lot of comments that shuffle is still OP. Moving at normal speed is not OP and if you think it is it’s probably because you play a perma snare templar or warden.Abhaya - PC NA - Ebonheart Pact
Stam Sorc 2-Hand / Bow Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=1691032 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭IMO the major expedition getting removed is fine. That being said I still see a lot of comments that shuffle is still OP. Moving at normal speed is not OP and if you think it is it’s probably because you play a perma snare templar or warden.
Agreed. I'd much rather see Elude given an active component on top and Quick Cloak changed to offer something other than Major Evasion.
There is just too much easily accessible mitigation in HA and no more bleeds to counter resistance, MA and LA's Protective Traits reduced, Meta Heavy set nerfs while needed, hurt MA setups too. Shuffle and Elude were buffed, but with the other things considered, is it enough? Why not just stay Heavy?PC Beta - 2200+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Marshall1289 wrote: »IMO the major expedition getting removed is fine. That being said I still see a lot of comments that shuffle is still OP. Moving at normal speed is not OP and if you think it is it’s probably because you play a perma snare templar or warden.
Agreed. I'd much rather see Elude given an active component on top and Quick Cloak changed to offer something other than Major Evasion.
There is just too much easily accessible mitigation in HA and no more bleeds to counter resistance, MA and LA's Protective Traits reduced, Meta Heavy set nerfs while needed, hurt MA setups too. Shuffle and Elude were buffed, but with the other things considered, is it enough? Why not just stay Heavy?
It’ll be interesting to see how it’s balanced this patch. With the heavy meta sets nerfed- (minus fury) - I can see more medium armor builds coming.
No more carry from 7th. Heavy hundings looks better.
Ravager, veiled useless.
Fury still good, more consistent even. What every heavy build will stick with.
Clever alchemist will see a big hike...0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Marshall1289 wrote: »IMO the major expedition getting removed is fine. That being said I still see a lot of comments that shuffle is still OP. Moving at normal speed is not OP and if you think it is it’s probably because you play a perma snare templar or warden.
Agreed. I'd much rather see Elude given an active component on top and Quick Cloak changed to offer something other than Major Evasion.
There is just too much easily accessible mitigation in HA and no more bleeds to counter resistance, MA and LA's Protective Traits reduced, Meta Heavy set nerfs while needed, hurt MA setups too. Shuffle and Elude were buffed, but with the other things considered, is it enough? Why not just stay Heavy?
Lmfao dude this is exactly what im saying. smh0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Marshall1289 wrote: »IMO the major expedition getting removed is fine. That being said I still see a lot of comments that shuffle is still OP. Moving at normal speed is not OP and if you think it is it’s probably because you play a perma snare templar or warden.
Agreed. I'd much rather see Elude given an active component on top and Quick Cloak changed to offer something other than Major Evasion.
There is just too much easily accessible mitigation in HA and no more bleeds to counter resistance, MA and LA's Protective Traits reduced, Meta Heavy set nerfs while needed, hurt MA setups too. Shuffle and Elude were buffed, but with the other things considered, is it enough? Why not just stay Heavy?
It’ll be interesting to see how it’s balanced this patch. With the heavy meta sets nerfed- (minus fury) - I can see more medium armor builds coming.
No more carry from 7th. Heavy hundings looks better.
Ravager, veiled useless.
Fury still good, more consistent even. What every heavy build will stick with.
Clever alchemist will see a big hike...
Things will play out exactly as they were before. THose who get rekt will still get rekt. The only difference is you wont be able to blame it on heavy damage sets. Though Im sure all the whiners will find something else to complain about. Ravager can still be used fyi. I can get really high up time on it with my s tampalr.1 -
mennotje999Soul ShrivenThis is just my opinion but I think removing major expedition from shuffle was entirely uncalled for and here's why.
First off both light and heavy armor have access to Race Against Time which features both snare removal and major expedition (and of course minor force). Additionally, unlike medium, light and heavy armor have the defenses to deal with damage without Major Evasion. And as a side note, medium is still the one armor type with a passive that is entirely useless outside of stealth play styles. If medium had something like crit resist instead of that, then this argument wouldn't be as applicable.
Secondly, the major expedition buff previously attached to shuffle and currently attached to elude (which will go entirely unused) is quite conditional and requires that you are taking AoE damage to activate unlike Forward momentum or Race against time which can both be activated at will. What this means is that medium armor will still be at a mobility disadvantage next to heavy and light armor since the major expedition wont be any use when trying to kite or evade groups of opponents. It will also be of little to no use 1v1 unlike Race against time which has the minor force.
In conclusion I think that some measure of major expedition should be given back to shuffle perhaps at the expense of slightly shorter snare immunity. So maybe a flat 4 seconds of immunity and add back in the expedition after taking AoE damage. What I really dont want to see here is yet another year or whatever where medium still just inst worth running over heavy armor. Race against time is still so good that running heavy is very viable and very mobile. Imo shuffle cant make up for the glaring weaknesses of medium especially without some form of expedition. Should shuffle go live as is I would honestly probably just stick to heavy.
Thanks for your time.
Try hitting a wrecking blow with a stamsorc whilst the other player has shuffle on. You'll never land it because your huricane gives them movement speed.0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mennotje999 wrote: »This is just my opinion but I think removing major expedition from shuffle was entirely uncalled for and here's why.
First off both light and heavy armor have access to Race Against Time which features both snare removal and major expedition (and of course minor force). Additionally, unlike medium, light and heavy armor have the defenses to deal with damage without Major Evasion. And as a side note, medium is still the one armor type with a passive that is entirely useless outside of stealth play styles. If medium had something like crit resist instead of that, then this argument wouldn't be as applicable.
Secondly, the major expedition buff previously attached to shuffle and currently attached to elude (which will go entirely unused) is quite conditional and requires that you are taking AoE damage to activate unlike Forward momentum or Race against time which can both be activated at will. What this means is that medium armor will still be at a mobility disadvantage next to heavy and light armor since the major expedition wont be any use when trying to kite or evade groups of opponents. It will also be of little to no use 1v1 unlike Race against time which has the minor force.
In conclusion I think that some measure of major expedition should be given back to shuffle perhaps at the expense of slightly shorter snare immunity. So maybe a flat 4 seconds of immunity and add back in the expedition after taking AoE damage. What I really dont want to see here is yet another year or whatever where medium still just inst worth running over heavy armor. Race against time is still so good that running heavy is very viable and very mobile. Imo shuffle cant make up for the glaring weaknesses of medium especially without some form of expedition. Should shuffle go live as is I would honestly probably just stick to heavy.
Thanks for your time.
Try hitting a wrecking blow with a stamsorc whilst the other player has shuffle on. You'll never land it because your huricane gives them movement speed.
True. But wrecking blow is just garbage these days and stam sorcs have a lot of other issues.0