Why do some players think 1vX is cheating?

GhostofDatthaw

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Nothing against solo players, but the 1vX crowd seems to attract the most toxic of PvP players, not all there are also some very good ones but for the most they just see other players as potatoes and choose and pick the fights for good YouTube vids.
Awaiting the usual zergling insult. lmao

How many 1vx'ers are on the delivering end of toxic messages and how many are on the receiving end? I will help you do the math; 1% vs 99%. If you have any toxic messages sent you by real 1vx players, not players running alone in a zerg, I would like to see them, because I have never experienced that in my time since playing beta. Yes, that is a challenge. If you cant deliver, I call you a liar.

I got flamed by a known "1vXer" who... Strangely enough I never see alone but commonly in a group of 2-3... and even up to like 10...anyway I digress.

I'm in a tower they are farming, him and another guy, I'm in there bumping around on my templar. Another guy comes into the tower with me and breaks up MY 1vx and I end up alone with this "known good 1vXer". I knock him into the dirt. His buddy comes rolling around with another one of they crew who showed up and I start doing my own tower troll. After like 10 minutes and afew close kills o finally fall.

Guess what happens?

"Known 1vXer" is bagging me and I get the flame. "You scrub I've 1vXed you so many times, proc sets this, zergling that.

I'm a temp with overwhelming/shackle/skoria. Yes I use proc sets, but good Lord if you lose to a overwhelming Templar on a sorc with streak than idk what to tell you.

So end of my long rambling story YES 1vx players are salty losers who cry all the time, and I'm a solely solo player myself. I just don't like to think 1vX is something to brag about

Vapirko

People don’t like being shown that their skills are obviously lacking.

SilverPaws

Instead of hate whisping they could ask for advice. I know that most of small scallers would be happy to give some tips etc.
I am always glad to help someone when they ask.

Also toxicity is always on all sides... There will be always people like that.

VaranisArano

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I don't mind 1vXers. I just don't care to indulge them.

So if I'm with PUGs who play like potatoes, I'm cringing as they let themselves follow into LOS issues and let themselves get pulled apart and killed one by one. I'm hanging back, healing, doing damage, not going into obvious traps, and steadily getting bored watching a bunch of my allies die because they can't kill one guy.

If I'm with my regular guild with players who know how to deal with 1vXers, the fight doesnt last long enough to be called a 1vX. Then we get the whisper "You zerged me..." And its like "Duh? A solo player picked a fight with a guild. What did you expect?"

I can say the same thing about small groups that tower farm.

Still, you zerged them down. When you grow a pair youll try to duel them. Youll die a lot, but eventually you will be better. If you whisper them for a duel, youll find theyre very positive to that and will most likely give you advice and tips.

Oh, sure we totally zerged them. Duh! We're a guild raid! Sorry, we don't have time to line up for our individual duel appointments.

Still, thanks for the advice. I don't mind losing to 1vXers when I'm solo because I usually learn a lot about their LOS, traps, and burst in the process. Good 1vXers have a command of the terrain and timing that's great vs solo and strung out players - not so much against organized groups taking objectives which smart 1vXers ought to recognize.


So I'm terribly amused by the way some 1vXers act.

Win against potatoes and PUGs I can tell are playing terribly? "Look at how great a PVPer I am!"

Lose to an organized group that sticks together and doesn't fall for LOS traps? "You zerged me!"

The better 1vXers recognize when a loss was inevitable and don't get salty when a guild clears them off a resource. The salty ones watch a guild capture the keep and then act shocked and appalled when the guild shows up and kills them in an unfair fight.

Sylosi

I hate to break it to some people, but Cyrodil as a game mode for skilled PvP is a joke.

The basis of skilled PvP is competitive PvP, Cyrodil fails miserably at providing that, in an actual skilled PvP game experienced / tryhard players don't generally face the inexperienced / casual, because you have matchmaking, leagues, etc, that is what makes for skilled PvP and that is what pushes up the skill cap in games.

Only nabcakes think beating up a guy who has played a tenth of the time or is in a zerg build that basically stands no chance of winning or is 60 years old and so on, is "skilled".

The funniest thing about the "1vX" playerbase in this game (beyond the delusion of "skilled" PvP) is people actually avoid fighting each other, a playerbase so bad that experienced players avoid other experienced players and rather go hit that guy with 400 CP that just went by, it is laughable.

This is one of the reasons people mock PvP in MMORPGs and one of the reasons it is such a colossal failure, even by the low standards of the dying MMORPG genre.

Oh yes same goes for any deluded guilds who think running a cheese comp, being on Discord, etc and beating some pugs with random builds, not on voice, etc is "skilled".

You want to see skilled PvP go watch a Tekken tourney or something, because it ain't in Cyrodil. The casuals actually have it right, because PvP in a game like ESO is simply trash tier (let's not even go into how compromised it is in terms of balance) and all it is fit for is casual PvP.

Kel

Sylosi wrote: »

I hate to break it to some people, but Cyrodil as a game mode for skilled PvP is a joke, the casuals have it right.

The basis of skilled PvP is competitive PvP, Cyrodil fails miserably at providing that, in an actual skilled PvP game experienced / tryhard players don't generally face the inexperienced / casual, because you have matchmaking, leagues, etc, that is what makes for skilled PvP and that is what pushes up the skill cap in games.

Only nabcakes think beating up a guy who has played a tenth of the time or is in a zerg build that basically stands no chance of winning or is 60 years old and so on, is "skilled".

The funniest thing about the "1vX" playerbase in this game (beyond the delusion of "skilled" PvP) is people actually avoid fighting each other, a playerbase so bad that experienced players avoid other experienced players and rather go hit that guy with 400 CP that just went by, it is laughable.

This is one of the reasons people mock at PvP in MMORPGs and one of the reasons it is such a colossal failure, even by the low standards of the dying MMORPG genre.

Oh yes same goes for any deluded guilds who think running a cheese comp, being on Discord, etc and beating some pugs is "skilled".

You want to see skilled PvP go watch a Tekken tourney or something, because it ain't in Cyrodil.

I agree players take skill a little too literally in this game.

I don't think it takes skill to burst down bad players who have no idea how to keep up healing, let's thier buffs fall off, and think group light attacks should be enough to kill some one.

When you have a solo player run up against a group of players who have a brain, who are coordinating, and using group synergy, that takes a degree of skill and know how.

Again, I agree that type of X is a rare thing these days, and it's more like a bully picking on the small kids on the playground. It's the same bone I have with "small scale" groups that hang out in front of empty keeps waiting for one or two players to run out, jump on them, then feel like they've accomplished something.

These things used to hold more weight in the older days. But a small scale group wiping zergs, or a X'er taking on a compatant group and winning? Those things are still impressive, if rare, in these times.

Dusk_Coven

StaticWave wrote: »

I don't really understand how some players think it's cheating when their group lost to 1 person.

Sounds like PvP mentality in ESO, especially when people like burst damage that kills the enemy in seconds.
So when their werewolf or goliath necro or sniper or whatever build is winning, they quietly continue and hope it doesn't get nerfed. They are happy even when they are the "1" in 1vX.
They don't like challenging fights, 1vX or otherwise. Just look at the threads warning against buying skill lines and how that's going to enable that certain PvP population that just likes to overpower easy opponents because that's what PvP is to them.

Gorilla

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Nothing against solo players, but the 1vX crowd seems to attract the most toxic of PvP players, not all there are also some very good ones but for the most they just see other players as potatoes and choose and pick the fights for good YouTube vids.
Awaiting the usual zergling insult. lmao

How many 1vx'ers are on the delivering end of toxic messages and how many are on the receiving end? I will help you do the math; 1% vs 99%. If you have any toxic messages sent you by real 1vx players, not players running alone in a zerg, I would like to see them, because I have never experienced that in my time since playing beta. Yes, that is a challenge. If you cant deliver, I call you a liar.

I have only received 2-3 toxic whispers from zergers and all the rest are 1vXers. I consider myself somewhere in the middle and have never sent anything but a congratulatory text. In my experience (been playing since beta), 1vXers are a combination of awesome and utter shite human beings.

Gorilla

frostz417 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

It's nothing against real good 1vXer's but some were proven way back when to be using Cheat Engine and that kind of gave all of them a black mark. More often than not a 1vXer is just someone who is just good at the class/build/style they are playing. Unfortunately this leads to people calling BS and reporting vs just getting better.

Because most pvpers are casuals with no thumbs and cry because some things actually takes skill. So they cry to zos demanding that the game to be dumbed down further careering to thumbless casuals.
They don’t want to learn and work to be good.

Some PVPers do cheat, however, and it's important to note that. Macroers are out there. Exploiters are out there. Not all, maybe not even many, but they exist.

I think the 2 biggest gripes many have involve animation cancelling and latency. Ani cancelling is not available to many players as they actually don't know about it and its not supposed to exist in game. Second, latency can play a huge role -- I see ping differences of 400-500 before the lag spikes in Cyrodil.


End of the day, I appreciate good PVPers. I do, however, think that calling it all skill is half BS. Takeaway the advantages of ani cancelling and lag and you'd see a very different outcome for many.

That said, it's part of the game now since ZOS can't correct its mistakes so we'll live with it.

EmEm_Oh

StaticWave wrote: »

I'm mostly a solo pvper, and I've had my fair share of 1vX fights. I rarely get whispers, but when I do, it's often accuses of macros or cheating. I have friends who've received far more whispers. I don't really understand how some players think it's cheating when their group lost to 1 person. I mean, if those players use the same build as the 1vXer, it's not guaranteed that they will perform at the same level right?

Sounds like the whispers you get are from those who only join zergs, and never experience 1v1 combat.

Akinos

TequilaFire wrote: »

Nothing against solo players, but the 1vX crowd seems to attract the most toxic of PvP players, not all there are also some very good ones but for the most they just see other players as potatoes and choose and pick the fights for good YouTube vids.
Awaiting the usual zergling insult. lmao

Non 1vXer's, faction loyalists, among other things are far more toxic then people that enjoy fighting outnumbered.

StaticWave

Gorilla wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

It's nothing against real good 1vXer's but some were proven way back when to be using Cheat Engine and that kind of gave all of them a black mark. More often than not a 1vXer is just someone who is just good at the class/build/style they are playing. Unfortunately this leads to people calling BS and reporting vs just getting better.

Because most pvpers are casuals with no thumbs and cry because some things actually takes skill. So they cry to zos demanding that the game to be dumbed down further careering to thumbless casuals.
They don’t want to learn and work to be good.

Some PVPers do cheat, however, and it's important to note that. Macroers are out there. Exploiters are out there. Not all, maybe not even many, but they exist.

I think the 2 biggest gripes many have involve animation cancelling and latency. Ani cancelling is not available to many players as they actually don't know about it and its not supposed to exist in game. Second, latency can play a huge role -- I see ping differences of 400-500 before the lag spikes in Cyrodil.


End of the day, I appreciate good PVPers. I do, however, think that calling it all skill is half BS. Takeaway the advantages of ani cancelling and lag and you'd see a very different outcome for many.

That said, it's part of the game now since ZOS can't correct its mistakes so we'll live with it.

Wrobel once stated that animation cancelling is an intended part of the game. Now that he's no longer part of ZOS, i still think the devs purposely allow it to stay because it has become such an integral part of the game, both in pve and pvp. Taking it away would upset a lot of players, especially those who took the time to practice the technique.

Rake

If 20 ppl attack one enemy and he is just standing there receiving damage and its HP bar is not moving at all that is probably cheating.
But stuff like that are so 2015

Hyzock

Sylosi wrote: »

The funniest thing about the "1vX" playerbase in this game (beyond the delusion of "skilled" PvP) is people actually avoid fighting each other, a playerbase so bad that experienced players avoid other experienced players and rather go hit that guy with 400 CP that just went by, it is laughable.

Maybe because those players know that they're coming to cyro to 1vX, not to duel. There are known dueling spots on every platform afaik, you can just go there if you want to fight experienced players. So yes, we don't attack each other because 1v1's vs experienced players (which usually takes a lot of time, and also means a decent chance you have to run back to the spot you want to go to) is not what we come to cyro for. So don't worry about solo players not attacking each other.

SugaComa

I don't think one v X is cheating ... But I do think there is a fundamental flaw in game balance when 1 or 2 players can take on 10 to 15 players ... The maths just doesn't stack


But 1 or 2 v 5 or 6 yeah possible

Though when I watch some 1 v X vids it's like old martial arts movies

Instead of just *** up the fella by attacking together they all attack one at a time ... N that's really just 1v1 in turn

Sanctum74

Rake wrote: »

If 20 ppl attack one enemy and he is just standing there receiving damage and its HP bar is not moving at all that is probably cheating.
But stuff like that are so 2015

Or... they have no idea what they are doing and refuse to slot a stun or debuff and wonder why their light and heavy attacks aren't killing him, but yeah must be cheating lmao!

zParallaxz

NinchiTV wrote: »

Its frustrating. On xbox most zerglings are at 30k HP and probably 30k resistances and they build for tanking and healing. You used to be able to 1vx a hell of a lot easier when the meta was 20k hp like...5 years ago. But i guess people got embarrassed and decided they dont want to die anymore.

Oh the good times. Sypher’s build videos were relevant, people who have mastered wearing set armor combinations instead of just random pieces of gear.

StaticWave

Hyzock wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

The funniest thing about the "1vX" playerbase in this game (beyond the delusion of "skilled" PvP) is people actually avoid fighting each other, a playerbase so bad that experienced players avoid other experienced players and rather go hit that guy with 400 CP that just went by, it is laughable.

Maybe because those players know that they're coming to cyro to 1vX, not to duel. There are known dueling spots on every platform afaik, you can just go there if you want to fight experienced players. So yes, we don't attack each other because 1v1's vs experienced players (which usually takes a lot of time, and also means a decent chance you have to run back to the spot you want to go to) is not what we come to cyro for. So don't worry about solo players not attacking each other.

Agreed. On PC NA people go to Stormhaven to duel. I've dueled a fair amount of good players there myself, but we usually leave each other alone in cyrodiil. I think it's an unspoken agreement across all platforms.

Mr_Walker

yodased wrote: »

No one is winning a 1v5 or a 1v10.

They are simply smarter than their opponents and turning it into multiple 1v1 or 1v2 manageable situations.

Bingo. I'm not the best player, but while there's a few people chasing some doofus around a tree, I'm sitting back a bit just waiting....

DKMaestro

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

https://xboxclips.com/React+Faster/77f93442-f612-449f-a587-d4691f175222

Imagine the hate this guy got after his 1vX on Xbox NA not only was it a clean 1v5 but to take out 2 bash builds as they go ult the same time lol especially since console still has not received the "nerf" to bash

I have played against React Faster before. He is lethal in BGs as well.
Sometimes you just have to realize that many people are just plain better than you - even running the same build. They don’t freak out and don’t panic smash buttons, like I do.

In Cyro I try to stay close to my AD friends. Chased people around enough to know that when it seems to good to be true, it is, and 6 people unstealth and lay into you.

That being said. I don’t think I have ever had a great player kill me in a group and then whisper. Maybe a teabag here or there, but that’s to be expected.

BahometZ

I don't understand the point of this thread. Is there where the potatoes and the peelers yell at each other about who presses buttons better?

VaranisArano

BahometZ wrote: »

I don't understand the point of this thread. Is there where the potatoes and the peelers yell at each other about who presses buttons better?

IIRC, the thread topic was originally something like "why don't some players like 1vXers" and later switched to the cheating topic. Hence why there's a lot of general discussion, since most decent players know that outside a few rare cheaters it doesn't take exploits to run circles around random players in Cyrodiil.