Confirmed: more 'year-long story' style content coming after Elsweyr. (Please no, you can do better)

Nairinhe

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

Bad news Solo players don't actually see half of the story because it's gated behind group content. Difficult, mechanic-heavy group content. I'd hoped this approach during Elsweyr was an abberation. To find out ZOS is doubling down on story gating is disapponting, to put it mildly. I don't have an issue necessarily with tying the chapter and zone content together, but shoving group dungeons into the whole process is exclusionary and unfair.

That said, I prefer more varied content and smaller stories. I love kitties, but I am so frigging sick of dragons. Am not looking forward to next year full of whatever they're going to choke me with.

1. standard dungeons arent difficult
2. its an MMO
3. you can always just watch a youtube video for the 2min mostly non essential cut scenes

people really drive their complaining up to the powerlevel 9000 these days...

I REALLY like this year long approach - it fits the story telling approach and makes for a better, deeper and richer experience!!

THANK YOU ZOS

1. Normal DLC dungeons ARE difficult for an average player if...
2. ... they don't have friends or guild and most of the players cannot be bothered to slow down and enjoy the story. I have 1 (one) person to do dungeons in "story mode" with and there are couple of DLC dungeons we couldn't duo
3. You have no idea how wrong you are. And how insensitive

Give us story mode or get the dungeons out of this story

Streega

As a veteran ESO player and "orderly" type of person, I do like the whole-year approach, however I don't mind the standalone DLCs either. What we really need is better guiding system and ONE starting quest, mainly Imperial Prison. Other chapters/DLCs should not change that, you can introduce them in the prologue. How the hell can Abnur release the dragons in Elsweyr as a mean to end the Three Banner war while he is technically still imprisoned in Coldharbour until you rescue him?

When creating my newest character (necromancer) I got totally lost in the Morrowind-Clockwork-Summerset timeline - even if I did play all three stories when they came out. Which one was first, Morrowind or Clockwork?... Which prologue? Who and where the hell is the quest giver?... Yeah, I totally forgot you can "buy" the prologue in the Crown Store, I had to refer to online guide to solve that. Now imagine what my returning after long period of time friend must feel.
Upon starting ESO for the first time or creating a new character, you should be approached by the DLC's quest givers in order, if the timeline is of essence (something like the Fighters Guild progression). For example, Stuga (curse upon her and her Echaterees!), Quen and Amelie can stay as they are now, because it doesn't really matter in what order you do Orsinium, Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood. However, you should be approached first by Alessio Guillon to start the Morrowind prologue, then by a Courier with the Order of the Eye Dispatch AFTER finishing the Morrowind, then by some Mage with the Message Stone from Vanus Galerion after returning from CWC, and finally by Anais Davaux with message from Abnur after Summerset. You can of course choose to skip the prologue and go directly to the zone and start the quest whenever and in whatever order you want, but just a push in the right direction would be nice.

Anyway, if the "year-long story" will help the developers create better, more polished content (which I believe it does), I'm all for it, even if it has the ugly "business" side (what doesn't these days...). Wrathstone and Elsweyr is very, very good in terms of content (the zone itself, dungeons, new mechanics). As for the technical problems like bugs, lag and stuff - I hope the "Year of Performance" will bring a lot of fixes and improvements.
Focusing on one theme for longer time will be beneficial for the quality of the game. Switching gears every 3 months in such a complex game as ESO has to be very difficult and will inevitably create unwanted side effects. I will always take quality over quantity.

EDIT: Error fixes, move along.

Darkmage1337

Synnastix wrote: »

Gonna be honest - if the next chapter isn’t Skyrim then I’m probably done. I’m holding out hope for a nice house on the coast near Solitude where I can retire.

I can barely find a reason to log in these days anyway.

I expect the Skyrim Chapter / 'year-long season' story will be done for 2021, which would be the 10-year anniversary of TES V.
Just like the Morrowind Chapter in 2017 was the 15-year anniversary of TES III.

redgreensunset

I see an awful lot of long term players complaining on behalf if new coming players, knowing ehat would be good for us and what we would prefer. As a new player who arrived with Elsweyr let me say this, the one thing I would change if I could wwould be to have the character accosted by the Hooded Figure right after completing the tutorial, now matter where that tutorial lands you and let you grab the "main quest" that way. The thing is, the so called main quest line is no longer that, haven't been in a long while, older players really have yo let go of that.

Personally I would prefer year long expansions if done properly, giving sufficient attention to depth of the story and characters and having a story that is long enough to fit. Whether or not Elsweyr/Scalebreaker/Dragonhold has and does that remains an open question as none of us here have seen more than part 1, possibly part 2 if they're on preview. Talk to me when we're done and we can have a meaningful conversation about it.

And I find it hilarious that people bring up Harry Potter in this, completely forgetting that 95% of the plot in that series take place in one single location, Hogwarts, and only briefly and intermittently goes elsewhere. Only the final book breaks that formula and even that concludes with a huge section of it taking place at... Hogwarts.

Finally I see a lot of people who are eager to constantly rush off to the next new shiny thing and don't care about depth. Fair enough, but you've had things your way for years, now those of us who prefer depth of story and characters might get things our way for a while (I say might because we still have no idea how this is turning out) and you're all being whiny that the game no longer cateres to your tastes. Okay then.

Legate_Lanius

I disagree with most of your points OP, especially the first one :

I can be considered as a new player and a simple research can allow me to see what is what and when each DLC came out. The DLC will also take place on the Southern part of Elsweyr... So guess what if you start Elsweyr questchain you start on the Nothern part and if you finish any one with 2 brain cells would see there is yet another region of Elsweyr to explore, or simply check the date of release of the DLCs if you want to do things in order of release.

bluebird

redgreensunset wrote: »

I see an awful lot of long term players complaining on behalf if new coming players, knowing ehat would be good for us and what we would prefer. As a new player who arrived with Elsweyr let me say this, the one thing I would change if I could wwould be to have the character accosted by the Hooded Figure right after completing the tutorial, now matter where that tutorial lands you and let you grab the "main quest" that way. The thing is, the so called main quest line is no longer that, haven't been in a long while, older players really have yo let go of that.

Personally I would prefer year long expansions if done properly, giving sufficient attention to depth of the story and characters and having a story that is long enough to fit. Whether or not Elsweyr/Scalebreaker/Dragonhold has and does that remains an open question as none of us here have seen more than part 1, possibly part 2 if they're on preview. Talk to me when we're done and we can have a meaningful conversation about it.

And I find it hilarious that people bring up Harry Potter in this, completely forgetting that 95% of the plot in that series take place in one single location, Hogwarts, and only briefly and intermittently goes elsewhere. Only the final book breaks that formula and even that concludes with a huge section of it taking place at... Hogwarts.

Finally I see a lot of people who are eager to constantly rush off to the next new shiny thing and don't care about depth. Fair enough, but you've had things your way for years, now those of us who prefer depth of story and characters might get things our way for a while (I say might because we still have no idea how this is turning out) and you're all being whiny that the game no longer cateres to your tastes. Okay then.

You joined in Elsweyr but mention the Main quest, not Wrathstone. Did you do Wrathstone? Were you aware of how the Wrathstone dungeons tie into the Elsweyr Prologue, and how the Elswyr Prologue ties into Elsweyr (did you do the prologue)? Also you haven't joined in Dragonhold (nobody did yet) so you can't say that the only thing you'd change about the year-long story is the main quest (which is entirely unrelated btw). How will Dragonhold's new arrivals feel when they join the already-in-progress story of Elsweyr and Scalebreaker, compared to how it felt when a player joined for Murkmire because they liked Murkmire?

Also, please don't confuse theme repetition for story depth. The Elsweyr storyline is not going to suddenly be deeper just because we have two separate dungeons in Scalebreaker that involve dragons and Khajiit architecture (one is about vampires draining a dragon and one is about some blue dragon corruption and a woodland spirit, nothing to do with a longer or deeper story). Is Zumog Phoom's or Euraxia's or Cadwell's character somehow deeper because we will spend the next DLC in Southern Elsweyr battling dragons again? Is Kalgrontiid's character better, because he returns for Southern Elsweyr? He barely had any lines in Elsweyr and could have been cut entirely. The story isn't deeper, it just repeats themes and assets.

The reason you may have seen Harry Potter brought up, was because I made an analogy between ESO's storylines and fantasy stories. Would it be fine to have longer story sections about the Hobbits in the LotR books? Sure, but not if it means that we get nothing about Rohan or Gondor, or if the Harry Potter books don't get written as a result. That was the point. Literally nobody said HP is a good example of location variety. It's fine to want longer stories, but having an Orsinium theme and story and location that lasted 9 months would not have been a good decision if it meant that Dark Brotherhood and the Thieves Guild don't get made.

bluebird

Legate_Lanius wrote: »

I disagree with most of your points OP, especially the first one :

I can be considered as a new player and a simple research can allow me to see what is what and when each DLC came out. The DLC will also take place on the Southern part of Elsweyr... So guess what if you start Elsweyr questchain you start on the Nothern part and if you finish any one with 2 brain cells would see there is yet another region of Elsweyr to explore, or simply check the date of release of the DLCs if you want to do things in order of release.

That point wasn't about whether people can tell in which order the DLCs came out, lol. This is about new or old players joining for new content and knowing what's going on, as Rich says. If you join for the Murkmire DLC, the story tells you what's going on and you get a full experience. If you join for the Dragonhold DLC however, you need to know what happened in Elsweyr and Wrathstone. And if players want to 'guess what start the Elsweyr questchain' they need to buy the Northern Part to actually get to the story of the Southern Part. Instead of you know, getting a full storyline in a story DLC that they paid for.

redgreensunset

bluebird wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

I see an awful lot of long term players complaining on behalf if new coming players, knowing ehat would be good for us and what we would prefer. As a new player who arrived with Elsweyr let me say this, the one thing I would change if I could wwould be to have the character accosted by the Hooded Figure right after completing the tutorial, now matter where that tutorial lands you and let you grab the "main quest" that way. The thing is, the so called main quest line is no longer that, haven't been in a long while, older players really have yo let go of that.

Personally I would prefer year long expansions if done properly, giving sufficient attention to depth of the story and characters and having a story that is long enough to fit. Whether or not Elsweyr/Scalebreaker/Dragonhold has and does that remains an open question as none of us here have seen more than part 1, possibly part 2 if they're on preview. Talk to me when we're done and we can have a meaningful conversation about it.

And I find it hilarious that people bring up Harry Potter in this, completely forgetting that 95% of the plot in that series take place in one single location, Hogwarts, and only briefly and intermittently goes elsewhere. Only the final book breaks that formula and even that concludes with a huge section of it taking place at... Hogwarts.

Finally I see a lot of people who are eager to constantly rush off to the next new shiny thing and don't care about depth. Fair enough, but you've had things your way for years, now those of us who prefer depth of story and characters might get things our way for a while (I say might because we still have no idea how this is turning out) and you're all being whiny that the game no longer cateres to your tastes. Okay then.

You joined in Elsweyr but mention the Main quest, not Wrathstone. Did you do Wrathstone? Were you aware of how the Wrathstone dungeons tie into the Elsweyr Prologue, and how the Elswyr Prologue ties into Elsweyr (did you do the prologue)? Also you haven't joined in Dragonhold (nobody did yet) so you can't say that the only thing you'd change about the year-long story is the main quest (which is entirely unrelated btw). How will Dragonhold's new arrivals feel when they join the already-in-progress story of Elsweyr and Scalebreaker, compared to how it felt when a player joined for Murkmire because they liked Murkmire?

Also, please don't confuse theme repetition for story depth. The Elsweyr storyline is not going to suddenly be deeper just because we have two separate dungeons in Scalebreaker that involve dragons and Khajiit architecture (one is about vampires draining a dragon and one is about some blue dragon corruption and a woodland spirit, nothing to do with a longer or deeper story). Is Zumog Phoom's or Euraxia's or Cadwell's character somehow deeper because we will spend the next DLC in Southern Elsweyr battling dragons again? Is Kalgrontiid's character better, because he returns for Southern Elsweyr? He barely had any lines in Elsweyr and could have been cut entirely. The story isn't deeper, it just repeats themes and assets.

The reason you may have seen Harry Potter brought up, was because I made an analogy between ESO's storylines and fantasy stories. Would it be fine to have longer story sections about the Hobbits in the LotR books? Sure, but not if it means that we get nothing about Rohan or Gondor, or if the Harry Potter books don't get written as a result. That was the point. Literally nobody said HP is a good example of location variety. It's fine to want longer stories, but having an Orsinium theme and story and location that lasted 9 months would not have been a good decision if it meant that Dark Brotherhood and the Thieves Guild don't get made.

Yes I did Wrathstone. It did not give me anything that I felt I abosolutely needed to understand or enjoy Elsweyr that the story in Elsweyr wasn't already providing me with. Was it some nice background details? Sure. Was it absolutely crucial? No.I also did Summerset before Morrowind and Clockwork City (and their intros) and I have the same opinion here.

I'm not even going to bother with the rest of your comment as you're intemd on misreading me and I don't engage with people woth malicious intent except for pointing out that Tolkien didn't write Harry Potter so your whole analogy is false.

zaria

VaranisArano wrote: »

The Year of the Dragon is awful for new players who want to play chronologically.

Let's break it down.

If they want everything to make sense, a new player who spawns into Elsweyr's tutorial with dragons already present must:

1. Play the Main Quest up until they've rescued Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan
2. Reach level 45 in order to queue for the Wrathstone dungeons
3. Play the Elsweyr Prologue
4. Play Elsweyr

That's terrible storytelling. New players have already beaten dragons in Elsweyr long before they help Abnur Tharn escape the Worm Cult or help him unleash the dragons in the first place with the Elsweyr Prologue.

Just awful.

Morrowind -> Clockwork City -> Summerset likewise has issues, mostly with pacing. Morrowind has to happen first to open up the CWC. CWC closes off what's otherwise a major plot hole in Summerset. And Summerset is far more climatic than the other two, as fits the end of the story.


Year long stories are great for advertising and drumming up hype and for experienced players who begin playing in Q1 and keep playing through Q4.

They are terribly disjointed storytelling experiences for anyone who starts at a later part of the story.


The best thing ZOS could do to fix the above is to give us a choice of starting tutorial so new players can decide to jump into new content or preserve the chronology.

Agree and will focus on the starting tutorial who would be an confusing for new players.
However I assume they assume most new players just buy the base game and the chapters is for leveling alts.
I would rather change the tutorial to be an continuation of the prologue quest.

The dungeons are no big deal, its just you recover the tablets, they don't really affect the story arch, Tharn comment if you recovered them.

Have an feeling they adds the prologue so people should make alts, however people would make wardens and necro anyway.

bluebird

redgreensunset wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

I see an awful lot of long term players complaining on behalf if new coming players, knowing ehat would be good for us and what we would prefer. As a new player who arrived with Elsweyr let me say this, the one thing I would change if I could wwould be to have the character accosted by the Hooded Figure right after completing the tutorial, now matter where that tutorial lands you and let you grab the "main quest" that way. The thing is, the so called main quest line is no longer that, haven't been in a long while, older players really have yo let go of that.

Personally I would prefer year long expansions if done properly, giving sufficient attention to depth of the story and characters and having a story that is long enough to fit. Whether or not Elsweyr/Scalebreaker/Dragonhold has and does that remains an open question as none of us here have seen more than part 1, possibly part 2 if they're on preview. Talk to me when we're done and we can have a meaningful conversation about it.

And I find it hilarious that people bring up Harry Potter in this, completely forgetting that 95% of the plot in that series take place in one single location, Hogwarts, and only briefly and intermittently goes elsewhere. Only the final book breaks that formula and even that concludes with a huge section of it taking place at... Hogwarts.

Finally I see a lot of people who are eager to constantly rush off to the next new shiny thing and don't care about depth. Fair enough, but you've had things your way for years, now those of us who prefer depth of story and characters might get things our way for a while (I say might because we still have no idea how this is turning out) and you're all being whiny that the game no longer cateres to your tastes. Okay then.

You joined in Elsweyr but mention the Main quest, not Wrathstone. Did you do Wrathstone? Were you aware of how the Wrathstone dungeons tie into the Elsweyr Prologue, and how the Elswyr Prologue ties into Elsweyr (did you do the prologue)? Also you haven't joined in Dragonhold (nobody did yet) so you can't say that the only thing you'd change about the year-long story is the main quest (which is entirely unrelated btw). How will Dragonhold's new arrivals feel when they join the already-in-progress story of Elsweyr and Scalebreaker, compared to how it felt when a player joined for Murkmire because they liked Murkmire?

Also, please don't confuse theme repetition for story depth. The Elsweyr storyline is not going to suddenly be deeper just because we have two separate dungeons in Scalebreaker that involve dragons and Khajiit architecture (one is about vampires draining a dragon and one is about some blue dragon corruption and a woodland spirit, nothing to do with a longer or deeper story). Is Zumog Phoom's or Euraxia's or Cadwell's character somehow deeper because we will spend the next DLC in Southern Elsweyr battling dragons again? Is Kalgrontiid's character better, because he returns for Southern Elsweyr? He barely had any lines in Elsweyr and could have been cut entirely. The story isn't deeper, it just repeats themes and assets.

The reason you may have seen Harry Potter brought up, was because I made an analogy between ESO's storylines and fantasy stories. Would it be fine to have longer story sections about the Hobbits in the LotR books? Sure, but not if it means that we get nothing about Rohan or Gondor, or if the Harry Potter books don't get written as a result. That was the point. Literally nobody said HP is a good example of location variety. It's fine to want longer stories, but having an Orsinium theme and story and location that lasted 9 months would not have been a good decision if it meant that Dark Brotherhood and the Thieves Guild don't get made.

Yes I did Wrathstone. It did not give me anything that I felt I abosolutely needed to understand or enjoy Elsweyr that the story in Elsweyr wasn't already providing me with. Was it some nice background details? Sure. Was it absolutely crucial? No.I also did Summerset before Morrowind and Clockwork City (and their intros) and I have the same opinion here.

I'm not even going to bother with the rest of your comment as you're intemd on misreading me and I don't engage with people woth malicious intent except for pointing out that Tolkien didn't write Harry Potter so your whole analogy is false.

Cool, so basically Wrathstone could have been a dungeon DLC entirely unrelated to the year-long story and you wouldn't have minded. If Elsweyr provided you with all the details and enjoyment that you needed for it, clealry ZOS can create content that isn't dependent on other DLCs, so what's the point in forcing a year-long story? You also played through Summerset before Morrowind and CWC, so the overarching storyline in those DLCs certainly wasn't necessary for you. So based on your experiences it rather seems that you're indifferent to longer stories rather than support them as something that should be done because it's great for the game.

And I'm not misreading you maliciously, I simply corrected you when you started 'debunking' the Harry Potter example without understanding what it was about (nobody claimed that HP has varied locations). Besides, analogies don't mean that literally everything about the two things is the same; and every single ESO story wasn't written by the same one guy

agegarton

So, as far as I can tell the arguments “against” are:-

1. It *might* get boring - seems like a stab in the dark given the massive amount of content available now.
2. It *might* be confusing for new players - that ship sailed years ago. Doesn’t appear to have put off any new players.
3. It’s a decision that’s better for the Company - good. As a business, they make better stuff when they make more profit.

However, the reasons “for” are pretty compelling:-

4. It’s easier on the art and dev teams - this should equate to better quality releases and fewer bugs etc.


Seems like a logical step to me. Anything that helps ZoS get to grips with the pace of four releases per year while maintaining or improving quality / performance gets my vote. In fact, I’d say this is the MOST sensible thing I’ve heard from ZoS for years.

Now, if I could have 1 more story DLC and 1 less boring Dungeon DLC per year, I’d be v happy!

colossalvoids

I would agree that now all this just feels uninteresting / uninspiring because quite the same settings through all the year. Before you were excited where the road leads you next, maybe it's some part of Cyrodiil or a cold Reach, other realms? But now it's the same "chapter" but stretched for the whole year so you need to be quite a hardcore fan of the khajiiti to bare with it.

And what can be the most disappointing that your preferred culture and setting is far from being represented or already marked as done.

Merlight

Vehlir wrote: »

Now if the theme is more Abstract then particular setting/culture, then I don't think I'd mind a year long theme at all. For example if it's a theme about "Year of Religions" or "Year of Rebellions" or something like that and it takes us to various different regions & cultures all mainly focusing on their respective take on the topic, then I think it'd be just fine.

That sounds a lot more boring to me. A rebellion is a rebellion, whether the rebels are Cats, Lizards or French. Religions are, for the most part, just different shades of hell. Culture, on the other hand, can have a multitude of facets to explore. It can span vastly different environments (if only reusing assets wasn't more cost-effective).

Cillion3117

I like the year long storytelling.

Iccotak

@VaranisArano

I strongly agree that every player should start in the base game

To fix Timeline and Quest order; ZOS should refine the Zone Guide - Specifically the Main Quest metric and it should indicate the sequence of the quests, chronologically.

Iccotak

Adernath wrote: »

Totally disagree with the OP's opinion. What you really could demand is to not having starter zones in the new content. Very simple. No need to create a large wall-of-text. (As a sidenote I highly doubt they will create a new starter zone for the Scalebreaker DLC anyways).

Thank you ZOS for this new approach which can create longer and better stories overall.

I have been saying this for Years

Iccotak

@jainiadral
you don't have to play the dungeon for the prologue quest.
The Prologue is automatically available for free in the Crown store as part of the update

KerinKor

jainiadral wrote: »

Bad news Solo players don't actually see half of the story because it's gated behind group content. Difficult, mechanic-heavy group content. I'd hoped this approach during Elsweyr was an abberation. To find out ZOS is doubling down on story gating is disapponting, to put it mildly. I don't have an issue necessarily with tying the chapter and zone content together, but shoving group dungeons into the whole process is exclusionary and unfair.

I agree, I'd hoped we'd seen the last of the 1990s group-or-die mentality when it comes to story content with Craglorn .. sadly it appears ZoS are again going to pander to the 'achievers' who spout the "it's an MMORPG" trope whenever someone argues against this 1990s' approach to story telling in online games.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

I really like it this way more easier to follow a story
Only idiot start reading a book at thend then read the first chapter,then the 7th, then the 4rth,etc

Story should be told in order

I have no problem for new player to go whereever they want but the story shouldnt be like that

Im would actualy support 2 years long story if it mean those damned dongeon pact arent part of the equation
I absolutly hated being ported to the boss in malatar right in middle of my discution with the quest give and left the dongeon many time until i managed to read all she had to say

Nairinhe

agegarton wrote: »

So, as far as I can tell the arguments “against” are:-

1. It *might* get boring - seems like a stab in the dark given the massive amount of content available now.
2. It *might* be confusing for new players - that ship sailed years ago. Doesn’t appear to have put off any new players.
3. It’s a decision that’s better for the Company - good. As a business, they make better stuff when they make more profit.

However, the reasons “for” are pretty compelling:-

4. It’s easier on the art and dev teams - this should equate to better quality releases and fewer bugs etc.


Seems like a logical step to me. Anything that helps ZoS get to grips with the pace of four releases per year while maintaining or improving quality / performance gets my vote. In fact, I’d say this is the MOST sensible thing I’ve heard from ZoS for years.

Now, if I could have 1 more story DLC and 1 less boring Dungeon DLC per year, I’d be v happy!

While I do generally agree with this position, I suspect that those of us who are more into killing stuff than doing quests will have terribly small amount of content for them with only one dungeon DLC per year (even with trials and arenas)

Sergykid

So many walls of text that i space out from while reading first rows. But i see many agrees and insightfuls being thrown around, you guys really like to read a lot

Ri_Khan

This all but guarantees that I won't be picking up any new content on release. Rather, I'll just wait until the entire chapter's complete and most likely available at a discount or for crowns. I do the same when watching a tv series. I can't set aside the time every week to not miss an episode so I just avoid it until it's complete and watch in it's entirety, at my own pace.

bluebird

agegarton wrote: »

So, as far as I can tell the arguments “against” are:-
1. It *might* get boring - seems like a stab in the dark given the massive amount of content available now.
2. It *might* be confusing for new players - that ship sailed years ago. Doesn’t appear to have put off any new players.
3. It’s a decision that’s better for the Company - good. As a business, they make better stuff when they make more profit.

However, the reasons “for” are pretty compelling:-
4. It’s easier on the art and dev teams - this should equate to better quality releases and fewer bugs etc.

Seems like a logical step to me. Anything that helps ZoS get to grips with the pace of four releases per year while maintaining or improving quality / performance gets my vote. In fact, I’d say this is the MOST sensible thing I’ve heard from ZoS for years.

Now, if I could have 1 more story DLC and 1 less boring Dungeon DLC per year, I’d be v happy!

The issue is that ''easier for the art and dev teams' and 'maintaining or improving quality' are mutually exclusive from what we've seen. The Chapter, Dungeon DLCs and Story DLC last year were unique, they had lots of new assets developed, they had distinct enemies and different styles. This year, Scalebreaker is already reusing Elsweyr assets, and from the preview of Dragonhold, it will do so too. Dragonbones and Wolfhunter and Murkmire were unique content, Scalebreaker just looks like a delve in Elsweyr. That is already a lower quality content due to the repetitiveness and the copy-pasting.

Also, a year-long story is gating parts of the story behind further paywalls. Want to see the second half of our Elsweyr cinematic? You'll have to stick around for the Dragonhold announcement! Want to get a house in Elsweyr? Here's two quarters of a house, you need to buy two extra DLCs to access the rest of it (you could get two whole houses in Morrowind and one in Summerset without having to purchase anything else). This is clearly aimed at player retention and pressuring people into subsequent DLC purchases, rather than at making higher quality content.

And it definitely will get boring (not for every single person perhaps but for the playerbase). It doesn't matter how much content is available now, if you've done it all, and the new releases are the same enemies in the same location with the same atmosphere. If you asked the playerbase what their ideal DLC schedule would look like, how many would say 'oh, definitely three Khajiit/dragon DLCs all set in Elsweyr' and how many would say 'Skyrim, vampire DLC, Akavir, Pyandonea' or literally anything else. All of those are not developed just so we can spend more time on the same enemies and the same theme in the same region.

Games should develop whatever adds the most to the game and the players, not whatever is less effort for the dev team. So the cons definitely outweight the pros. I do totally agree about more story DLCs and less dungeon DLCs though! But I suppose there are plenty of other people who want more vet content instead of braindead overland zones

WolfingHour

I'm okay with the proposed model, at least for now; l'll reassess at the end of the cycle. Although I do understand that people that are not invested in either cat lore or dragons might feel already disappointed by all thia model.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

jainiadral wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

Bad news Solo players don't actually see half of the story because it's gated behind group content. Difficult, mechanic-heavy group content. I'd hoped this approach during Elsweyr was an abberation. To find out ZOS is doubling down on story gating is disapponting, to put it mildly. I don't have an issue necessarily with tying the chapter and zone content together, but shoving group dungeons into the whole process is exclusionary and unfair.

That said, I prefer more varied content and smaller stories. I love kitties, but I am so frigging sick of dragons. Am not looking forward to next year full of whatever they're going to choke me with.

1. standard dungeons arent difficult
2. its an MMO
3. you can always just watch a youtube video for the 2min mostly non essential cut scenes

people really drive their complaining up to the powerlevel 9000 these days...

I REALLY like this year long approach - it fits the story telling approach and makes for a better, deeper and richer experience!!

THANK YOU ZOS

Considering the exceptionally large proportion of solo players who play this MMO--the one poll posted indicated almost 45% of forum posters prefer to run primarily solo-- gating story behind group content is ill-advised.

I am not going to watch a youtube vid of someone else's toon. I am *not* going to subject myself to PUGs so I can not-see the story in a rushing group. And considering that ZOS wants me to plunk down decent chunks of change for the vast majority of the story that is intended to be run solo, I think I'm not complaining loud enough.

STOP GATING MAIN STORY BEHIND GROUP CONTENT, ZOS

logarifmik wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

'hodgepodge of stories that didn't really connect to one another.'

LOL! Bad news, guys, your game is "fractured, but whole", and making year-long stories can't fix it. You'll only end up with even more stories without adequate connection to each other anyway. The best decision would be to hold back your greed to reconsider the Vestige story and find some way to make it more consistent.

jainiadral wrote: »

Bad news Solo players don't actually see half of the story because it's gated behind group content. Difficult, mechanic-heavy group content. I'd hoped this approach during Elsweyr was an abberation. To find out ZOS is doubling down on story gating is disapponting, to put it mildly. I don't have an issue necessarily with tying the chapter and zone content together, but shoving group dungeons into the whole process is exclusionary and unfair.

Agreed. We solo players need story-mode for the dungeons.

Totally agreed and thumbs-upped

This 100%, sorry but reading the nightmares about PUGs and at one point seeing a page covered in it, then some rude person on here, yeah no, never touching a DLC dungeon or buying one ever.

VaranisArano

agegarton wrote: »

So, as far as I can tell the arguments “against” are:-

1. It *might* get boring - seems like a stab in the dark given the massive amount of content available now.
2. It *might* be confusing for new players - that ship sailed years ago. Doesn’t appear to have put off any new players.
3. It’s a decision that’s better for the Company - good. As a business, they make better stuff when they make more profit.

However, the reasons “for” are pretty compelling:-

4. It’s easier on the art and dev teams - this should equate to better quality releases and fewer bugs etc.


Seems like a logical step to me. Anything that helps ZoS get to grips with the pace of four releases per year while maintaining or improving quality / performance gets my vote. In fact, I’d say this is the MOST sensible thing I’ve heard from ZoS for years.

Now, if I could have 1 more story DLC and 1 less boring Dungeon DLC per year, I’d be v happy!

Oh, it makes sense from a developer standpoint to do it this way.

Therefore, I want ZOS to seriously think about how to make the story make sense for players who don't start at Part 1.

The Daedric Wars arc was tolerable in comparison, in that ZOS did okay with alternate dialogue and the storyline mostly being standalone.

The Year of the Dragon? New players miss the Elsweyr Prologue, where you release the dragons in the first place. New players later go back and rescue Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan, events that happen well before Elsweyr! Year of the Dragon is well designed for experienced players who already did the Main Quest and who started with at least the Elsweyr Prologue.


If this is what ZOS is going to do for the foreseeable future, they have got to grapple with their new player experience as an MMORPG.

General things for ZOS to consider about year long stories:
1. Using recurring characters who don't remember you when you go back to earlier content is jarring. Summerset did Sotha Sil and

Darien

right, but Razum-Dar not so much.

2. The Coldharbor tutorial actually explains gameplay mechanics like not having a soul, not being able to die, seeking skyshards, etc. Without that quest, many other quests don't make sense. Newer chapters have done better IIRC, but Morrowind had at least one side quest that assumed my new character had lost her soul already.

3. If the content is going to be "standalone", then make it actually stand alone! Don't leave cliifhangers like Morrowind being the only reason CWC is open to players or use the story to close off plot holes like CWC to Summerset. Sure, you can do them out of order, but its bad game design that tosses players into Part 3 of the story. Its terrible design that experienced players get to unleash dragons in the Elsweyr Prologue, while new players will have been fighting them already before they - what, go back in time or something? - to unleash the dragons they've already been fighting. Think about how your story works (or doesnt work) when played out of order when you throw players into the middle of it!

4. DLC dungeons don't unlock in groupfinder until level 45. Don't put any story content, even minor "we're getting the pieces of the tablet used in the Elsweyr Prologue" type content, in DLC dungeons. New players haven't a hope or prayer of seeing that story content until long after they've played through Elsweyr itself. This is purely a gimmick for experienced players at the expense of telling a coherent story for newcomers.

5. Don't short change your Chapter. Morrowind was the main offender, since its main quest was a stretched out mess of running all over the island that built up to a cliffhanger with the Q4 DLC of CWC as the continuation of the story. At least with Summerset and Murkmire, we knew we got the full package with Summerset with nothing held back to pad out other zones. We'll see how Elsweyr connects to Q4. If we're paying more for a "special" chapter, it needs its own full and complete story.


In short, I'm resigned to ZOS going with year long story arcs. But, please ZOS, think about how your stories work and don't work when played out of order!

No_Division

I agree. I have no idea what this year's sorry is about; I just got the chapter for basically 30-40% off and I never play pve dungeons.

But give me a game that doesn't lag!

Sylvermynx

For me personally, the year-long arc is perfect. I'm a "get deep into the story" solo player, so this is really fine by me. I started with Morrowind, and had to instantly work out how to get to the "real' MQ - it's not hard to do, new players can do what I did, google it.

I do think starting in the MQ with a selection of where you want to go next is the best setup though. As for dungeons, I haven't tried them. If I can stay alive on normal to see the story, fine. If not, fine. Dungeons aren't my reason for playing any game. Killing isn't my reason for playing any game. Quests are my thing, period.

ProfessorKittyhawk

The open ended nature of the game and how it doesn't require previous completion of certain content in order to progress is a double edged sword. On one hand it prevents the game from becoming a tedious slog like FFXIV is where you have to complete all previous content in order to be able to play the new stuff.

On the other hand, being able to jump in and start anywhere makes the narrative far more jilted and confusing for new people. And the fact that going back to do the older content after the newer content and encountering recurring characters is disappointing and perhaps a little confusing for new players who aren't familiar with the order of the content. Meeting Naryu in Vvardenfell then going to meet her in the EP storyline will be jarring. Similarly, meeting Tharn in Elsweyer (and soon Sai in Dragonhold) before meeting them in the main story will be weird because it's like you will be meeting them for the first time all over again.

I liked how, if you completed Orsinium before doing the main quest or the mages guild quest lines, you would see Bazrag as the king of the Orsimer instead of Kurog in certain quests of the main story and Mages guild. That change of detail based on completion of newer content before base game content was a nice touch, and something I wish could be done in other areas. Meet Raz for the first time on Summerset? Tweak the dialogue a bit when you meet him on Khenarthi's Roost. I know it would require more work on ZOS's part, but if they're wanting to give us an experience, might as well be a seamless one.

VaranisArano

Sylvermynx wrote: »

For me personally, the year-long arc is perfect. I'm a "get deep into the story" solo player, so this is really fine by me. I started with Morrowind, and had to instantly work out how to get to the "real' MQ - it's not hard to do, new players can do what I did, google it.

I do think starting in the MQ with a selection of where you want to go next is the best setup though. As for dungeons, I haven't tried them. If I can stay alive on normal to see the story, fine. If not, fine. Dungeons aren't my reason for playing any game. Killing isn't my reason for playing any game. Quests are my thing, period.

For an MMORPG, I think its a crying shame that the solution for new players trying to figure out the real Main Quest is to "Google it". Or even, "ask more experienced players in zone chat." It works, sure, but its bad game design and bad storytelling.

I mean, I wrote the guide most players will find when googling it precisely because I was answering that exact question so many times on the forums.

This guide: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/413807/what-order-should-i-do-esos-story-arcs-a-guide/
Exists solely because ZOS drops new players into Chapter content without a clue and doesn't make it clear how the stories of the different zones connect. The Zone Guide is an improvement on the zone level, but does not help with story arcs covering multiple zones.