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ideas for new cp system.

Rungar
Rungar
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this cp system is designed with performance in mind ( updated! a total revamp)

the new cp system will max out at 2000 and will be unlocked to cp 1200 and then 100 each quarter until 2000 is reached ( 8 additional quarters).

General
Each cp gives you a flat health/mag/stam bonus according to 6 tiers.
tier 1 is 1-160cp and gives 3200 ( 20/cp)
tier 2 is 161-300cp and gives 2100 ( 15/cp)
tier 3 is 301-600 and gives 1500 (5/cp)
tier 4 is 601-1000 and gives 1600( 4/cp)
tier 5 is 1001-1500 and gives 1000 (2 per cp)
tier 6 is 1501-2000 and gives 500 (1 per cp)[/b]

A grand total of 9900 health/mag/stam at cp 2000, but gains suffer diminishing returns so much of it will be collected by cp300.
this value might seem like alot but you need to remember that the current 20% bonus would be no more and additionally the mitigation which can be around 30ish percent would also no longer be present. The secondary objective here is to better well round players. Thus all mag players will have more available evasion, all stam players will have more utility and tanks will get both. The primary stat for each player type will also go up but only slightly in most cases. In addition the armor cap will be adjusted to a potential of 60% ( you have to spec for it though) which will help account for the removal of hardy/ironclad, non tanks are already compensated through the health bonus.

cp is round robin so you get 500 for each group at cp 2000

group 1 is combat skills upgrades
group 2 is slottable combat abilities
group 3 is specialization
group 4 is non combat abilities


Group 1 has two tiers. Minor and major skill upgrades. Minor skills cost 50 and major ones cost 100. You can have any combination you want of these up to 500 points but you can only choose everything once. Major versions are twice as strong and cost twice as much.

selections


Spell dmg
Spell critical
Mag regen
Spell critical dmg
Magicka bonus
fire resistance
shock resistance
frost resistance
spell penetration
shield strength & cap
Shield duration

Weapon dmg
Weapon critical
Stam regen
Weapon crit dmg
Stamina bonus
poison resistance
disease resistance
weapon penetration

Healing done
healing received
healing critical dmg

block cost reduction
sneak cost reduction
break free cost reduction
dodge cost reduction
reduced sprint cost
critical resistance


armor cap increase
heavy armor bonus
medium armor bonus
Light armor bonus

heavy attack resource bonus
light attack enchantment bonus


Group 2 has alternate versions of abilities in the weapons skills and guild lines which are generally enhanced. These skills are slottable like any other ability. Each weapon line and guild line will have two new abilities to choose from. You have to have the appropriate standing and cp to unlock the abilities. In addition these abilities may ( or may not) have a quest component that is required to be completed before you can unlock the ability. This could be a simple as unlocking the ultimate for a weapon line, maxing out a guild rank or could be more intensive. All these abilities cost 250 so you can only have two at cp 2000.

Group 3 has specialization packages Each package is tailored to a specific type of playstyle or role. Each one is unique but usually includes offensive defensive and utility bonuses related to that style. There are three levels to specialization Adept, Expert and Master. Adept costs 125, expert costs 250 and master costs 500. You can be adept at four things, expert at two or master at one or a combination of adept and expert. Each specialization has unique things you cant get elsewhere in the cp system. i.e you can only get a bonus to fire magic through the fire line.

The adept and expert levels are scaled down versions of the mastery. Of course mastery wont be available for a while so its something to look forward to. Questing is required to unlock all specializations. Quests originate from the appropriate guild( fighters, mages, thieves, undaunted).

School of Fire Mastery
School of Ice Mastery
School of Shock Mastery
School of Poison Mastery
School of Disease Mastery

Weapons specialist (physical/generalist)
Magician ( magic/generalist)

Light Armor Specialist
Medium Armor Specialist
Heavy Armor Specialist

School of Stamina Healing
School of Magic Healing
school of Support ( general)


Specializations would have a package of skills, some unique skills. i.e you can only get frost dmg bonus for choosing to specialize in frost.

general outline for offensive dmg types (the three different levels have increasing values)

1) you get a increase modifier of that specific dmg type. General types like physical and magic receive less an increase because of their more varied usefulness.
2) you get a better chance to apply a condition with a light attack
3) You get natural resistance to that dmg type
4) you get an increase in duration of that dmg types dots
5) your light attacks have a unique behavior
6) your heavy attacks have a unique behavior
7) other unique abilities such as a mag regen bonus when you are hit by dmg of that type

general outline for defensive armor types

1) bonus of armor to that type per piece ( remember armor is more important now that hardy etc is gone)
2) cost reduction suitable to armor type per piece ( block for heavy/dodge for medium/ sprint speed for light)
3) armor cap increases
4) reduction to 4 pieces to activate passives
5) reduction to snares ( light), stuns (heavy), off balance (medium)
6) other unique abilities such as light attacks in 7 heavy now taunt enemies for 5 seconds

general outline for Healing & support specialties

1) increased healing
2) increased duration of buffs
3) increased time of healing dots
4) increase in synergy effects
5) faster resurrections
6) unique behavior to light attacks
7) unique behavior to heavy attacks

group 4 non combat abilities

this group has everything non or not directly combat related. Each one costs 100 so you can have any 5.

adventuring:
Mount speed
lockpicking
pickpocket
swimming speed
fall dmg
armor repair costs
vendor prices ( purchasing)
vendor prices ( selling)
lucky strike treasure enhancement
lucky strike gold enhancement

harvesting enhancements:
ore & metals
wood & ingredients
Cloth & leather

crafting enhancements:
blacksmithing improved chance with less tempers
jewelcraft improved chance with less platings
woodworking improved chance with less resins
tailoring improved chance with less tannins
alchemy chance to make more potions or poisons
cooking chance to make more food or drink
enchantment chance to make an additional enchantment


misc:
pet replacement skins
teleportation cost reduction
wardrobe change cost reduction
access to npc guild vendor


this revamped system still retains some of the mix and match as it limits what can be taken in each group while also offering long term growth and more noncombat related abilities. This also intertwines the slottable abilities and specializations with the npc guilds systems so is also a source of extra content.

the base stat increase will change the game slightly but for the better as players will be far more well rounded base stat wise and this should aid in basic survive-ability. Players will never choose this for themselves because they will always choose the dmg stat. This system moves their choices elsewhere. This also should dramatically reduce the total calculations required and thus improve performance.

armor cap changes explanation. With any cp system change you will have to account for the effects of cp like ironclad and hardy. these cap can reduce incoming dmg by 40% but more realistically 35%. This is a huge amount of damage reduction for any character.

some non tank calculations

current cp = 35% reduction and 20% base health ( 2-3 k health)
50k hit *.87*.78 ( hardy and ironclad) * .8 = 17k ( you would likely die if you didnt block)
50k hit *.87*.78 ( hardy and ironclad) * .8 *.5 = 8500 ( you would be ok if you blocked with 17k health)
new cp = 10k health (+7 or 8k from current)
50k hit = 40k ( you would die if you didnt block)
50k hit = 20k ( you would be ok with 25k health)

this makes armor for non tanks much more important than before but doesnt really change the outcome. Dmg calculations are simplified. Given that stam players will have more mag for utility and mag players more stam for evasion this should work fine even if a few attacks that could be blocked before have to be dodged now.

same thing with tank
current cp = 35% reduction and 20% base health ( 2-3 k health)
100k hit *.87*.78 ( hardy and ironclad) * .5 (armor) .92 ( minor protection), .85( minor maim) = 27213 * survivable
100k hit *.87*.78 ( hardy and ironclad) * .5 (armor) .92 ( minor protection), .85( minor maim) .6 (dk ironskin, defensive stance, s&B ) .5( block) = 7.5k

new cp = 10k health (+3-5k from current), cap is 60% armor
100k hit * .4 (armor) .92 ( minor protection), .85( minor maim) = 31280k ( survivable)
100k hit * .4 (armor) .92 ( minor protection), .85( minor maim) .6 (dk ironskin, defensive stance, s&B ) .5( block) = 9384
typical tank has 36-42k health and that would go up to 40-46k health

not blocking with lower armor

100k hit * .5 (armor) .92 ( minor protection), .85( minor maim) = 39100k ( still survivable with .5 armor or 33k)
100k hit * .6 (armor) .92 ( minor protection), .85( minor maim) = 46k ( unlikely to survivable with 26.4k armor)

blocking with lower armor

100k hit * .5 (armor) .92 ( minor protection), .85( minor maim) .6 (dk ironskin, defensive stance, s&B ) .5( block) = 11.7k ( still survivable with .5 armor or 33k)
100k hit * .6 (armor) .92 ( minor protection), .85( minor maim) .6 (dk ironskin, defensive stance, s&B ) .5( block)= 14k

so there wouldnt be much of a difference between the current cp and a 60% armor cap give that tanks would have up to 5k more health than before but also much more mag and stam than before. Again this will make armor much more important and useful than before while minimizing calculations

other side effects would be that there is in general alot more health to heal which will make it more challenging for healers.


accessory systems to round out the cp system.

minor combat overhaul

Rather than just get rid of the weaving mechanic we need to replace it with something better and more useful to all classes and roles that doesnt cripple certain styles like channeled attacks etc.I think the combination update of select-able light attacks and an extra dual bar slot on the ui would be a reasonable replacement. Rather than just focus on damage as before we focus on utility and strategy instead.

Light attacks

now that players are more well rounded than before gameplay can be enhanced by removing the weaving mechanic for a new kind of light attack system. Light attacks will now share the same global timer as other damaging attacks except you can now select the kind of light attack you would like to use. Light attacks will also consume resources like any other skill, though they will be extremely efficient in terms of cost.

This ties into the mastery system where different kinds of light attacks become available through masteries. For instance if you were a fire master you can select from a couple of types of basic fire attack with secondary effects. You can only have one active at a time and each one has to be quested for and unlocked to use. Once you have the skill you can choose them on the fly similar to how you choose a potion and can be switched out during combat.

under the new light attack system only light and heavy attacks can cause enchantments to proc. For performance reasons the proccing abilities of enchants will be removed from the weapon skill lines, and the effects of enchants will be improved accordingly.

Double bar slot

a new slot will be opened up on the ui that is common to both weapons much like a potion is now. Any non ultimate skill can be placed here but will not change when switching weapons as it would be common to both.

NPC guild overhaul

Rather than focus on new lands all the time this update will focus on expanding things that already exist. Expansion of the npc guilds is one way to introduce both the new cp system and the minor combat overhaul. The new systems will all feature questlines tied into the different guilds. Additionally new functionality will be added to npc guilds to address some longstanding issues.

NPC guild traders

you will now be able to sell items though npc guilds without having to join a trade guild. This system is is not meant to replace the trade guild system but provide an alternate route so more people are included. Generally speaking the amount you can sell would be more limited and the cost to do so significantly greater. Additionally all the kiosks would be within the npc guilds themselves. This is a necessary augmentation that will enhance trading overall and provide alternate routes for players.

NPC guild membership
each local guild will also have a unique guild chat. You will now have to be a member of the local guild chapter and becoming a member will be competitive in nature as each chapter will have limited spaces available. How it will work is that there will be a new type of arena added for each guild called the proving grounds or maybe the gauntlet. It works the same as the leaderboards but this time you have to maintain your position as you can lose your spot to other players who score better than you. Maintaining and improving your position has unique benefits tied to it. While you can have all the guild lines simultaneously you can only be a member of one local guild at a time. unlike the other arena's this arena is a 2 man arena. You dont have to be in the guild to complete the specific arena but you cant compete in arenas if you have already chosen a local guild unless it is that general guild ( mages guild etc)

there will be a special arena for each guild type and the focus of the arena will be the focus of the guild.

for instance the fighters guild is a physical/brawling/ gladiator type arena where the mages guild is has a more magical focus, assassins guild focuses on assassinations, and thieves guild focuses stealing. The undaunted guild focuses a more dungeon like style. You get points for how well you do in your team of two and the points determine the guild standing and whether or not your bumped out of the guild.


Edited by Rungar on August 9, 2019 10:05PM
  • EmEm_Oh
    EmEm_Oh
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    Should just "cash out" players then start over. CP1000 get an exotic mount of their choice plus 250K gold, CP1500 get 2 mounts 350K gold, etc. If we're going to drop it, then do it, but reward the people who have dedicated so much time as well.

    I also recommend new mounts which would reflect your historical cp level. That way, we move on but to keen players, we can observe the achievement, respect in zone, will be something special forever, etc.
  • frostz417
    frostz417
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    Sounds like a pretty good idea. I’d actually be in favor of this. Better then the trash “increase loot gain, increased role play immersion” crap that some folks so love to pronounce as good ideas
  • Jagdkommando
    Jagdkommando
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    Rungar wrote: »
    this cp system is designed with performance in mind

    the new cp system will max out at 1000 and will go up by 10 every quarter

    General
    1) Each cp gives you a flat health/mana/stamina bonus of 6 ( max ~6000 per stat at 1000cp). Note that the old 25%ish dmg reductions and dmg modifiers are no longer present. These reductions are replaced partly by more stats and partly by offerings in the tiers.
    2) all proc chance effects will be removed in favor of flat bonuses and alternate slottable abilities.
    3) all percentage effects will be removed in favor of flat bonuses where possible.
    4) constellations are no more. You can spend your points however you wish but can only purchase each item once.
    5) There are 5 tiers of increasing costs. Tiers 1 and 2 are general, tiers 3 has unique abilities and 4 & 5 are specialization. You must have tier 1 ( minor)to get tier 2(major) and you cannot have both a expert and mastery same specialization at the same time. Expert specialization is a scaled down version of the mastery specialization.
    5) i didnt specify the exact numbers. thats zos's job. Just the categories. The costs could also be adjusted.


    Tier 1 is minor enhancements 50 cp cost each)
    Tier 2 is a major version of tier 1 but 125 cp cost and 1.75X values)
    Tier 3 has alternate slottable abilities ( 250 cp cost)
    tier 4 has expert specialization packages ( 350 cp cost)
    Tier 5 has mastery specialization packages (500 cp cost)

    Tier 1 selections ( exact values to be determined by zos)


    Spell dmg
    Spell critical
    Mag regen
    Spell critical dmg
    Mana bonus
    fire resistance
    shock resistance
    frost resistance
    spell penetration
    shield strength & cap
    Shield duration

    Weapon dmg
    Weapon critical
    Stam regen
    Weapon crit dmg
    Stamina minor bonus
    poison resistance
    disease resistance
    weapon penetration

    Healing done
    healing received
    healing critical

    block cost reduction
    sneak cost reduction
    break free cost reduction
    dodge cost reduction
    reduced sprint cost
    critical resistance
    lockpicking improvment
    pickpocket improvement
    mount speed

    armor cap increase
    heavy armor bonus
    medium armor bonus
    Light armor bonus

    heavy attack resource bonus
    light attack enchantment bonus



    tier 2 (125 cp cost each)

    major versions of tier 1 with 1.75X strength

    Tier 3 has alternate versions of abilities in the weapons skills lines which are generally enhanced. These skills are slottable like any other ability. Each weapon line will have 2 new abilities to choose from. These will be displayed in the weapon lines themselves but can only be unlocked by choosing them in the cp .

    Tier 4 has expert specialization packages (350 cp cost each). Each package is tailored to a specific type of playstyle or role. Each one is unique but usually includes offensive defensive and utility bonuses related to that style.

    Destruction expert
    1H & shield expert
    bow expert
    heavy weapons expert
    dual wield expert
    Heavy armor expert
    Medium armor expert
    Light armor expert
    Restoration expert

    Tier 5 has master specialization packages (500 cp cost each). Each package is tailored to a specific type of playstyle or role with offensive and defensive versions in some cases. Each one is unique but usually includes offensive defensive and utility bonuses related to that style.

    Destruction mastery
    1H & shield mastery
    bow mastery
    heavy weapons mastery
    dual wield mastery
    Heavy armor mastery
    Medium armor mastery
    Light armor mastery
    Restoration mastery

    notes
    so there are three routes to building your character. You can focus on just stats and take more tier 1 and 2 items, or you can focus on enhanced abilities, or you can take specializations. You can also mix and match all three types. The actual amounts of the minor and major bonuses would be determined such that a player could achieve results similar to a cp 810 player now ( at cp 1000).

    many of the calculations are simplified by compensating with extra health, dmg and evasion via the primary stat pools and enhancements available in the tiers which werent previously available ( like spell dmg and mana bonus, armor cap ).



    Not bad but will be better if they move all classes into CP system so the only thing will persist is the race(can also be changed with crowns) and thus we can take different skills from different classes. This is in a nutshell, also ALL skills must be adjusted.

    You know guys smth tells me that zos is preparing exactly for this...
    Edited by Jagdkommando on July 27, 2019 2:03PM
  • rsantijw13
    rsantijw13
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    My idea for CP is cocaine powder, just start doing a lot of that and you will definitely feel different.
  • Xerikten
    Xerikten
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    much too complicated for something that can have a easy fix.

    just have number prerequisites for each of the nine to unlock placement into a new ability for that part. none of this 200 cost crap which bypasses the lower abilities.

  • Rungar
    Rungar
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    then you cant mix and match. The whole point is to provide multiple methods of advancement. There has to be a reason to pick something over something else.

    if you want a mastery its gonna cost you elsewhere. The differing combinations is what gives it value. Choosing a mastery of a single thing may or may not necessarily be better than some other combination.

    the ability to combine multiple tiers is where the value is. The same concept is used for both your armor setup and your skills setup and it works great.







  • idk
    idk
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    Some of the initial pointes OP makes are pretty much no brainers based on some of the changes Zos has made. I think many of us expect % to be changed to flat values in an attempt to relieve the server of some strain.

    However, most of the other points seem to be trying to get CP to do something completely different and makes no sense.

    The slotable abilities is a little far fetched and does not make any sense to have anything like that in the CP system. I do not even see OP trying to justify it. .

    The specialization part is something we already have in the current CP design and OP leaves out any real explanation of what they mean by this. Essentially OP is so vague it seems they are just trying to recreate the very exact system we have not but organizing them a little different. I am not sure I would call this much of a suggestion as there is nothing real to work with.

    Edit: I am expecting, as many are, that Zos is working on developing ideas for CP that will make it easier for them to manage the game as they currently struggle and to reduce server lag while still trying to give us the idea of choice.
    Edited by idk on July 27, 2019 8:11PM
    Really, idk
  • idk
    idk
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    Rungar wrote: »
    then you cant mix and match. The whole point is to provide multiple methods of advancement. There has to be a reason to pick something over something else.

    if you want a mastery its gonna cost you elsewhere. The differing combinations is what gives it value. Choosing a mastery of a single thing may or may not necessarily be better than some other combination.

    the ability to combine multiple tiers is where the value is. The same concept is used for both your armor setup and your skills setup and it works great.

    There is a reason now. While it is hard to tell by how vague the suggestion it, it seems you want to hinder using two different weapons to a significant degree. Hence restricting choice. That is a poor design as it harms stamina builds and most PvP builds. Your specializations do not take into account defense at all which is a glaring hole.

    From what you are saying here it seems you want cost at the sake of cost, not at the sake of a good design.
    Edited by idk on July 27, 2019 8:18PM
    Really, idk
  • Rungar
    Rungar
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    why would i need to justify a slottable ability? its just an option. You dont have to take it. Theres a cost to having it. You could even have 4 of them if you wanted at cp 1000. Or you could have none.

    you dont even have to take a mastery for that matter. You can have all major/minor upgrades if you wanted. I just used mastery and expert packs because its elder scrolls themed

    as ive said its no different than assembling your armor. One of the systems in eso that is actually really good.

    as opposed to the combat system or current cp system.

  • labambao
    labambao
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    Just delete it and and all should be fine
  • Rungar
    Rungar
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    labambao wrote: »
    Just delete it and and all should be fine


    that might work for pvp but for pve that would be the greatest nerf this game has ever seen.
    you have to have something to replace with.

    continuing on

    flat health/Magicka/stamina stats per cp explanation


    removing 25%+ mitigation is difficult to replace but extra health will help bridge that gap. In the old 20% formula you didnt really get much in your off stats because it was percent based. Now you would get alot more to help offset the mitigation loss. If you added 6- 10 each stat per cp to a player ( 6-10k per stat) this would also give more magicka to stam players and more stam to mag players. The primary stat likely wouldnt be affected too much.

    There are a number of benefits too this.

    Mag players will have more ability to avoid dmg, stam players will have better access to mag based buffs and class skills and tanks will have both benefits. Additional dmg reduction would also be available but at the cost of something else.

    This change meets players halfway but if they want what the old cp provided they would now have to spec for the additional mitigation which in this system would come at the cost of offence.

    tier 1 & 2 buffs.


    Providing the buffs in chunks rather than per cp ensures that you cant have everything so you have to make choices. Originally i thought linking these was the better idea but i think it would be more flexible if you could choose either the minor or major or both. In the current system you dont have to make choices really. You can take all the benefits with no real cost for doing so. This ensures that you have to make choices but also offers more choices than before. Most of them are straight forward and can be tailored to what major and minor buffs standardization provides now. Since there are a number of offerings you wont be able to take them all with both major and minor even if you just focused on that. Again this means that choices will have to be made.

    tier 3 slottable abilities

    i think these would be a great addition because they are expensive but provide great mix and match functionality like how armor is done. In addition i would expend the offerings from just weapon skills to also include guild skills. This also accomplishes a kind of meshing of the cp system with the skills system and provides more choices to players on how they want to build a character. Is an enhanced ability worth the cost of a few major and minor enhancements? Youll have to figure that out, which is why we need them.

    tier 4 and 5 expertise and masteries

    Originally i though the weapon skills would serve as the best masteries but i think it would be better to provide more specific masteries in terms of damage types like fire, shock, frost, magic, physical, poison, disease, and defensively oriented packages.

    the packages themselves would then not only provide a buff to that dmg type but also defence against it. The idea would be to provide an additional full armor sets ( or so) worth of abilities with a specialized theme. The expert level provides a cheaper but scaled down version of the mastery to help aid in the mix and match process of assembling your character.

    so a fire mastery would provide the following

    +x fire dmg from all fire sources
    +x amount fire resistance
    + 100% chance of applying burning
    + duration of fire based dots

    a tank mastery would look something like this

    decrease the cost of block by x amount
    increase the amount of dmg you can block by x
    increase the heavy armor cap by x amount
    increase armor rating by x amount per piece
    your light attacks now taunt enemies for 6 seconds

    So the expertize and masteries would be a focus package with a few unique items thrown in. Again you arent required to choose these, and there are also levels of choice but the provide another method to mix and match your character. It would be my hope that using the block style would give zos some advantage performance wise.

    so do you focus on major and minors, or slottable abilities or masteries, or some combination of them all. you decide whats best.
    Edited by Rungar on July 29, 2019 12:55PM
  • Skullstachio
    Skullstachio
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    Personally, the CP system should be orientated around each class, having different statistics based on which class a character is.

    And seriously. Mana? This is elder scrolls online, not World of Warcraft just so you are aware from a metaphorical standpoint. In eso, we call it “Magicka”
    Edited by Skullstachio on July 29, 2019 12:50PM
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  • WoppaBoem
    WoppaBoem
    ✭✭✭✭
    Thank you for your efforts. As show by you and many the whole system replacement is complex. Based on that I have no opinion but very much anticipating what is going to happen. (however very tired of the many changes and this in on the horizon, eeuugghhh)

    what ever ZOS does it needs to be fun to get, to have and increase the CAP.
    Xbox EU - EP

    MagDK - PVP Single target Rock Star
    StamDen - PVP AoE Rock Star
    Templar Heal - PVP never dies
    StamNecro - PVE Tank and Dizzy Swing Unslaught PVP
    StamSorc - Negate
    Magblade - is AD so only PVE DD
  • Delparis
    Delparis
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    something like this

    core-protection-warrior-talent-tree-wow-3-3-5a.jpg
    ZOS don't fix old bugs, they harbor them
  • Rungar
    Rungar
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    i still call it mana. Whats the difference?
  • Rungar
    Rungar
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Delparis wrote: »
    something like this

    core-protection-warrior-talent-tree-wow-3-3-5a.jpg

    was trying to avoid that to be honest with you. i feel that eso's greatest strength is its armor set system. Its extremely flexible and has 3 interconnecting components ( 2 armor sets and a monster set/vma set etc). This system doesnt get changed every update and i only recall one major change to it ( two handed weapons count as 2 pieces) since i started playing in 2016.

    i think everyone likes it and are used to it. With that in mind i made this system based on that with similar parts and the same kind of functionality for mixing and matching.
  • Delparis
    Delparis
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    i ddon't like the armor system because of the heavy build meta in pvp.
    armor system maybe good for pve but not in pvp for sure
    ZOS don't fix old bugs, they harbor them
  • Rungar
    Rungar
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Delparis wrote: »
    i ddon't like the armor system because of the heavy build meta in pvp.
    armor system maybe good for pve but not in pvp for sure

    heavy armor meta isnt because of the armor system its because weaving/ultimates/proc sets provide to much burst potential for free ( outside the cost of the pools). Thus negating the efficiency aspects the other armors provide.
    Edited by Rungar on July 29, 2019 1:23PM
  • labambao
    labambao
    ✭✭✭✭
    Rungar wrote: »
    labambao wrote: »
    Just delete it and and all should be fine

    that might work for pvp but for pve that would be the greatest nerf this game has ever seen.
    you have to have something to replace with.

    continuing on

    flat health/Magicka/stamina stats per cp explanation


    removing 25%+ mitigation is difficult to replace but extra health will help bridge that gap. In the old 20% formula you didnt really get much in your off stats because it was percent based. Now you would get alot more to help offset the mitigation loss. If you added 6- 10 each stat per cp to a player ( 6-10k per stat) this would also give more magicka to stam players and more stam to mag players. The primary stat likely wouldnt be affected too much.

    There are a number of benefits too this.

    Mag players will have more ability to avoid dmg, stam players will have better access to mag based buffs and class skills and tanks will have both benefits. Additional dmg reduction would also be available but at the cost of something else.

    This change meets players halfway but if they want what the old cp provided they would now have to spec for the additional mitigation which in this system would come at the cost of offence.

    tier 1 & 2 buffs.


    Providing the buffs in chunks rather than per cp ensures that you cant have everything so you have to make choices. Originally i thought linking these was the better idea but i think it would be more flexible if you could choose either the minor or major or both. In the current system you dont have to make choices really. You can take all the benefits with no real cost for doing so. This ensures that you have to make choices but also offers more choices than before. Most of them are straight forward and can be tailored to what major and minor buffs standardization provides now. Since there are a number of offerings you wont be able to take them all with both major and minor even if you just focused on that. Again this means that choices will have to be made.

    tier 3 slottable abilities

    i think these would be a great addition because they are expensive but provide great mix and match functionality like how armor is done. In addition i would expend the offerings from just weapon skills to also include guild skills. This also accomplishes a kind of meshing of the cp system with the skills system and provides more choices to players on how they want to build a character. Is an enhanced ability worth the cost of a few major and minor enhancements? Youll have to figure that out, which is why we need them.

    tier 4 and 5 expertise and masteries

    Originally i though the weapon skills would serve as the best masteries but i think it would be better to provide more specific masteries in terms of damage types like fire, shock, frost, magic, physical, poison, disease, and defensively oriented packages.

    the packages themselves would then not only provide a buff to that dmg type but also defence against it. The idea would be to provide an additional full armor sets ( or so) worth of abilities with a specialized theme. The expert level provides a cheaper but scaled down version of the mastery to help aid in the mix and match process of assembling your character.

    so a fire mastery would provide the following

    +x fire dmg from all fire sources
    +x amount fire resistance
    + 100% chance of applying burning
    + duration of fire based dots

    a tank mastery would look something like this

    decrease the cost of block by x amount
    increase the amount of dmg you can block by x
    increase the heavy armor cap by x amount
    increase armor rating by x amount per piece
    your light attacks now taunt enemies for 6 seconds

    So the expertize and masteries would be a focus package with a few unique items thrown in. Again you arent required to choose these, and there are also levels of choice but the provide another method to mix and match your character. It would be my hope that using the block style would give zos some advantage performance wise.

    so do you focus on major and minors, or slottable abilities or masteries, or some combination of them all. you decide whats best.

    All that good bud, but what if I told you that they can just delete cp at all, balance classes around pvp (as all good games do) and then just tune the environment (kinda adjust mobs and bosses dmg and Def etc) for pve.
    Edited by labambao on July 30, 2019 9:20AM
  • Rungar
    Rungar
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    People put time in for all those points. I dont think zos can or should just delete it. An alternative is required that addresses the prior systems flaws.

    for instance the flat rate mag stam health per cp addresses current flaws in the game. This raises up mag players evasion ability and stam players utility without directly raising their damaging abilities too much. Whether theres a cp system or not that is sorely needed.

    so assume you had a player with 30% mitigation through cp. You would need to calculate the health required to compensate for this value. For a non tank player i think that value is somewhere around 6-10k health given that the cp is i believe applied prior to armor rating.

    so a 20k hit -30% = 14k -20% armor = 11.2k dmg if you had 17k ( ~2k from current 20% bonus) health that would leave you with 5.8k

    or 20K hit =20k hit -20% armor = 16k dmg if you had 24k ( +7000( and 2000 from above, or 9 flat points per cp) health that would leave you with 8k.

    so this change also makes armor more important since the cp reduction reduces the effectiveness of the armor reduction.

    lets try a tank

    so a 50k hit -30% = 35k - 50%= 17.5k hit leaving you with 22.5k if you had 40k health

    or a 50k hit -50% = 25k hit leaving you with 15k if you had 40k health

    or a 50k hit -60% = 20k hit leaving you with 20k if you had 40k health


    of course things like major/minor protection and minor main ect would reduce this even further.


    thats stripped down but you can see that giving a flat health/magicka and stamina bonus and raising the armor cap to 60% will mostly compensate for cp mitigation while increasing utility and evasion for mag/stam players and while tanks would take a hit because they wouldnt necessarily see the same health gains they also benefit from sizable increases in both mag and stam pools.

    im making the assumption that the most performance friendly change would be adding flat stats to your base pools since there are no other conditions on use i.e direct damage, dot, fire etc.






  • Ajax_22
    Ajax_22
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rungar wrote: »
    People put time in for all those points. I dont think zos can or should just delete it. An alternative is required that addresses the prior systems flaws.

    The prior system's flaws is the fact that it exists. The Champion Point system hasn't had a single positive impact on this game. The system needs to either be burnt down, or completely changed to have minimal impact on combat.
  • mursie
    mursie
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    just make CP into attribute points. capped at 64 for pvp. unlimited for PVE.

    go to town man - GO TO TOWN.

    done.

    simple.
    twitch.tv/mursieftw
    twitter: @mursieftw
  • Deathlord92
    Deathlord92
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    perhaps the new cp system can allow us to morph racial passives or pick them I can only hope. I love pvp but I’m a elder scrolls nerd who loves playing a Breton stamblade I did in oblivion and still play Skyrim 🙂
  • BuildMan
    BuildMan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Scrap it. Less calculations less lag less problems.
    PSN: YourACasul
    For the Covenant!!

    CP 1040 Dark Elf Stamina Warden - Flawless Conqueror

    Ps4/NA/DC
  • Rungar
    Rungar
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    BuildMan wrote: »
    Scrap it. Less calculations less lag less problems.

    ok i scrapped the original and offer you a modified version :)
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