Rapid Maneuver change and communication between developer teams

Ivan04

Rapid Maneuver:
Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs to 6885 from 8100 for the 15% Stamina cost reduction standard.
This ability and its morphs will no longer remove themselves if you take an action, such as healing or damage.
Reduced the duration of the Major Expedition granted to 8 seconds from 30 seconds at Rank IV. Note it will continue granting Major Gallop for 30 seconds.

Now let's discuss collaboration between ZOS teams. Normally we like to blame the commerce team that's forcing crown store items and content instead of fixing the game/balance/pvp content, but here we can see that the combat and commerce team do have some sort of connection between them - the commerce team ordered the nerf on overworld movement speed, so it's significantly harder for any player to go around and gather skyshards/lorebooks/quests etc, and players would look at crown store skyshards/skillines as if they were a more viable option for character leveling.

So now that we see that the combat team and the commerce team are capable of communing with each other, perhaps one day the combat team will be able to stand up to their overbosses and proclaim the necessity for more pvp content/fixing the game etc., right?

On a serious note - if this rapid maneuever change goes live this will prove the tendency of the whole developer team towards changing the game to prepare us for the actual P2W. inb4 I can buy vma and master's weapons for only 5k crowns! I mean, I did vma and vdsa a lot of times, so it just pay4convenience, right?

kalunte

pointless, major gallop keeps it's 30s duration, unless you are a guy running around without any mounts cause you are vegan in the first place (and should be using a computer neither)

well, i dont even know why i'm replying here... totally pointless OP

Lord_Eomer

kalunte wrote: »

pointless, major gallop keeps it's 30s duration, unless you are a guy running around without any mounts cause you are vegan in the first place (and should be using a computer neither)

well, i dont even know why i'm replying here... totally pointless OP

This ^

Major Gallop for 30 second is enough

Ivan04

First of all, major gallop is nice, but what about unleveled horse? Low level characters get a nerf in movement speed.

Second, delves - can't mount there, please kill all the mobs before you can pick up one skyshard.

Third, mobs anywhere - not a problem if you have a leveled horse, serious nerf to low level characters.

And I do have to note how serious the nerf is - by my approximation, skyshard/lorebook finding would take about 40% more of your time on new characters, all based on ZOS's whim and their desire to make you spend more crowns.

cheemers

Ivan04 wrote: »

First of all, major gallop is nice, but what about unleveled horse? Low level characters get a nerf in movement speed.

Second, delves - can't mount there, please kill all the mobs before you can pick up one skyshard.

Third, mobs anywhere - not a problem if you have a leveled horse, serious nerf to low level characters.

And I do have to note how serious the nerf is - by my approximation, skyshard/lorebook finding would take about 40% more of your time on new characters, all based on ZOS's whim and their desire to make you spend more crowns.

Nice approximation. You just pulled that number out your a**. This thread is pointless. What's with all the bloody tinfoil hat posts in the last few days??

Ivan04

cheemers wrote: »

You just pulled that number out your a**

Nice argument dear sir, great way to contribute to the conversation. Thank you for all the "rational thinking" signaling.

You clearly have played only one or two characters if you're not worried about gathering skyshards at snail speed. Or you're happy to enable cheesy money drain that ZOS is providing.

Sandman929

I understand that it's nice to have a skill that enables farming, but I'm not sure that's the right function for a skill from the Alliance War skill trees.

LiquidPony

Ivan04 wrote: »

cheemers wrote: »

You just pulled that number out your a**

Nice argument dear sir, great way to contribute to the conversation. Thank you for all the "rational thinking" signaling.

You clearly have played only one or two characters if you're not worried about gathering skyshards at snail speed. Or you're happy to enable cheesy money drain that ZOS is providing.

I have 19 characters across accounts on two platforms and I'm not sure I've ever used Rapid Maneuver to run through delve to gather Skyshards. Major Gallop is the reason I run it, if at all. There are plenty of other sources of Major Expedition ... Boundless Storm, Twisting Path, Fiery Grip, Falcon's Swiftness, Quick Cloak, Dodge rolling with a bow, Channeled Acceleration, and more.

Much ado about nothing.

Joosef_Kivikilpi

The issue the OP it's bringing up is the Major Expedition time if 30 seconds. Other skills only give it to you for 4 seconds for the majority of them, which is too burdensome for overland content running/gathering etc. They have nerfed a really nice quality of life skill into making it almost useless for such role of life quality outside if Major Gallop in PvP.

cheemers

Ivan04 wrote: »

cheemers wrote: »

You just pulled that number out your a**

Nice argument dear sir, great way to contribute to the conversation. Thank you for all the "rational thinking" signaling.

You clearly have played only one or two characters if you're not worried about gathering skyshards at snail speed. Or you're happy to enable cheesy money drain that ZOS is providing.

Nope, 17 full characters who are simultaneously set up as crafters and end game PvP or PvE. That's a lot of skill points. Nice assumption though, "oh my POV is so watertight that anyone not agreeing is a 2-char casual".

I just don't have this personality flaw of sh*tting the bed and throwing my toys out the pram because I can't rapid maneuver past mobs in delves any more might want to start work on either a stronger emotional constitution or a better argument, mate.

dotme

I'm guessing nobody in this thread has tried to run a scroll (which can't be done while mounted) across Cyrodiil while being chased by mounted enemy players.

Major Expedition nerf makes that a heavy task indeed.

Ajax_22

dotme wrote: »

I'm guessing nobody in this thread has tried to run a scroll (which can't be done while mounted) across Cyrodiil while being chased by mounted enemy players.

Major Expedition nerf makes that a heavy task indeed.

You can still easily keep 100% uptime on Major Expedition. Infact this change makes scroll running even faster as you get 100% uptime on both Major, and Minor Expedition. This change also makes the skill useful in actual combat again. This is a buff.

Ivan04

cheemers wrote: »

I just don't have this personality flaw of sh*tting the bed and throwing my toys out the pram because I can't rapid maneuver past mobs in delves any more might want to start work on either a stronger emotional constitution or a better argument, mate.

Once again, great way to contribute to the conversation. I hope I don't owe you any money for the free psychotherapy session?

I believe zos shouldn't take away an easy source of major expedition from all players. I've created this thread because I believe my voice can be heard.

Ivan04

I'm here mostly on behalf of new players (and new characters) - it's simply not arguable that gathering skyshards etc. is going to take a lot more time next patch (as well as simply moving around) - if they go through with this change without offering some kind of alternative for major expedition.

cheemers

Ivan04 wrote: »

cheemers wrote: »

I just don't have this personality flaw of sh*tting the bed and throwing my toys out the pram because I can't rapid maneuver past mobs in delves any more might want to start work on either a stronger emotional constitution or a better argument, mate.

Once again, great way to contribute to the conversation. I hope I don't owe you any money for the free psychotherapy session?

I believe zos shouldn't take away an easy source of major expedition from all players. I've created this thread because I believe my voice can be heard.

You've had your argument debunked numerous times, continue with your patronising but it doesn't make your point any more valid. The irony of you mocking people's replies as being off topic and offering lame quips about psychotherapy might even be amusing if it didn't come across as quite so pathetic.

Ivan04

@cheemers

"to debunk - expose the falseness or hollowness of (an idea or belief)"

Show me how you've exposed the falseness or hollowness of an idea or a belief that it's going to take more time to gather skyshards without a source of major expedition.

And then you can debunk the fact that making gathering skyshards harder makes buying skyshards in the crown store a more attractive option.

Ivan04

@cheemers

cheemers wrote: »

I just don't have this personality flaw of sh*tting the bed and throwing my toys out the pram because I can't rapid maneuver past mobs in delves any more might want to start work on either a stronger emotional constitution or a better argument, mate.

cheemers wrote: »

mocking people's replies as being off topic

:thinking:

Just to clarify - the topic of this thread is the change to the Rapid Maneuever ability in the PTS 5.1.0 patch

Kingslayer513

Ivan04 wrote: »

I'm here mostly on behalf of new players (and new characters) - it's simply not arguable that gathering skyshards etc. is going to take a lot more time next patch (as well as simply moving around) - if they go through with this change without offering some kind of alternative for major expedition.

Nah I think you missed the mark on this one. I have 16 maxed out characters and only used Rapids for the major gallop. And my experience is pretty darn common with what other players I know do as well. Nothing will change after this.

Ivan04

People I know do use major expedition, because it does increase your movement speed when you're off the horse. Which is a significant potion of the time, more importantly - your time.

Pr0Skygon

Ivan04 wrote: »

I'm here mostly on behalf of new players (and new characters) - it's simply not arguable that gathering skyshards etc. is going to take a lot more time next patch (as well as simply moving around) - if they go through with this change without offering some kind of alternative for major expedition.

if you'd argue about keeping 30 secs Major Expedition that is now overperforming in Cyrodill for vet players just to make new players life a bit easier, then I think it's a good idea to just stop this conversation right now. I mean you just put the experience of vet players, who have been playing and supporting this game for years, below the newbies that have just come in for like 1-2 months for the new chapter, then move onto the next big thing. You'd rather have an easier time to skyshard and lorebook hunting on your new alts, instead of having a healthy and balance PvP experience in Cyrodill. I'm utterly shocked at how you basically gave 0 sh@t to the combat balance and the loyal fanbase of ESO, I truly am.

Ivan04

They could change the skill to have something like a 2 target cap to make it less useful for zerging instead of turning it upside down. That's why I mentioned an alternative rather than a complete revert. It's clear the new dev team wants to change the pvp experience radically, but it shouldn't be done at the expense of a large portion of the playerbase.

Ekzorka

Ivan04 wrote: »

nerf on overworld movement speed, so it's significantly harder for any player to go around and gather skyshards/lorebooks/quests etc, and players would look at crown store skyshards/skillines as if they were a more viable option for character leveling

Excuse me, what? So often this forum complains that locations are "too small", and now they become "too big"?
I never thought that my skyshards gathering without Rapid Maneuver is too difficult. What a news.

I really thought that you'll talking about fixed of an old bug with infinite gallop that was not mentioned in patch notes, but, it seems, people don't using mounts for travels. =D (btw that was a right fix, gallop must works as it's supposed to)

Ivan04

It doesn't matter how difficult it is, what matters is the fact that it's going to be more difficult for no reason. They claim they're interested in nerfing ball groups, why should people with new characters pay for that? We're the customers of ZOS, and we have the right to be heard and express our worries about the significant inconvenience that's about to be implemented into our game.

Ajax_22

Ivan04 wrote: »

It doesn't matter how difficult it is, what matters is the fact that it's going to be more difficult for no reason. They claim they're interested in nerfing ball groups, why should people with new characters pay for that? We're the customers of ZOS, and we have the right to be heard and express our worries about the significant inconvenience that's about to be implemented into our game.

This isn't about ball groups. No one currently uses this skill in combat. This change is going to address that. People who lose a small amount of quality of life will just have to adapt, and get over it.

Ivan04

No. People do use this skill in combat. Specifically ball groups, that normally have one or more designated buff spammers.

Ajax_22

Ivan04 wrote: »

No. People do use this skill in combat. Specifically ball groups, that normally have one or more designated buff spammers.

No they don't. They haven't since Wrathstone.

Sandman929

Ivan04 wrote: »

No. People do use this skill in combat. Specifically ball groups, that normally have one or more designated buff spammers.

They don't anymore, it doesn't remove snares. Which is what it was great for pre-wrathstone. Although, now that the expedition doesn't end immediately it looks better for PvP in the next update

Sandman929

I honestly don't know what prompted the change in the next update