So orbs will continue to be incredibly rigid next patch.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

LiquidPony wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

mystic orbs on dps ought to be a thing. look at this tooltip-




1358*2 = 2716 dps and it is not even at level 4. that is insane, and the cost is not that much for the damage, 3.2k on a mag sorc.

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

thats good right? what did you think of it while you were testing? what is entropic touch?

MashmalloMan

LiquidPony wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

mystic orbs on dps ought to be a thing. look at this tooltip-




1358*2 = 2716 dps and it is not even at level 4. that is insane, and the cost is not that much for the damage, 3.2k on a mag sorc.

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Just like that.. you can now have Mag DPS using orbs to provide additional access to the synergy, that dps is nice and does not take in to account the synergy damage other people get access to. You can still have 4 orbs consistently passing by in a trial and now slower than before which makes it super easy to catch before it passes.

Thanks for testing.

Edit: What is Entropic Touch?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

@Marshall1289 What is Entropic Touch?

might be what they are calling the light attack the scamp does now.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Banekin

mentioned there

LiquidPony

@Marshall1289 @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO Entropic Touch seems to be the new name for the Volatile Familiar's basic melee attack.

And it feels fine in testing, better than using Scalding Rune. Would be even stronger on a magden (+6% magic damage) or a magnecro (+10% DoT damage) I assume. Also the tooltip for the synergy is nearly 12k damage fully buffed up, so if 7 other DDs all pop your orb that's an additional 84k damage every 20 seconds.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

LiquidPony wrote: »

@Marshall1289 @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO Entropic Touch seems to be the new name for the Volatile Familiar's basic melee attack.

And it feels fine in testing, better than using Scalding Rune. Would be even stronger on a magden (+6% magic damage) or a magnecro (+10% DoT damage) I assume. Also the tooltip for the synergy is nearly 12k damage fully buffed up, so if 7 other DDs all pop your orb that's an additional 84k damage every 20 seconds.

pretty sure the synergy can crit too, so way more then 84k. how does this make you feel, running orbs on a dps?

LiquidPony

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

@Marshall1289 @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO Entropic Touch seems to be the new name for the Volatile Familiar's basic melee attack.

And it feels fine in testing, better than using Scalding Rune. Would be even stronger on a magden (+6% magic damage) or a magnecro (+10% DoT damage) I assume. Also the tooltip for the synergy is nearly 12k damage fully buffed up, so if 7 other DDs all pop your orb that's an additional 84k damage every 20 seconds.

pretty sure the synergy can crit too, so way more then 84k. how does this make you feel, running orbs on a dps?

Pretty cool actually. Stam DPS run spiders, mag DPS run orbs.

And yeah, it can crit, it should be much higher in practice. Maybe like 7k+ DPS added to the group if everyone synergizes off cooldown? Maybe more? Dunno, would have to test with a full group using it probably. It's really strong either way, even without the synergy.

MashmalloMan

LiquidPony wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

@Marshall1289 @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO Entropic Touch seems to be the new name for the Volatile Familiar's basic melee attack.

And it feels fine in testing, better than using Scalding Rune. Would be even stronger on a magden (+6% magic damage) or a magnecro (+10% DoT damage) I assume. Also the tooltip for the synergy is nearly 12k damage fully buffed up, so if 7 other DDs all pop your orb that's an additional 84k damage every 20 seconds.

pretty sure the synergy can crit too, so way more then 84k. how does this make you feel, running orbs on a dps?

Pretty cool actually. Stam DPS run spiders, mag DPS run orbs.

And yeah, it can crit, it should be much higher in practice. Maybe like 7k+ DPS added to the group if everyone synergizes off cooldown? Maybe more? Dunno, would have to test with a full group using it probably. It's really strong either way, even without the synergy.

When you put it like that it makes perfect sense that in group content, the group skill tree (undaunted) should be very potent.

However it's a bit disheartening that there is 6/10 as universal: Degeneration, Mystic Orb, Soul Splitting Trap, Flame Reach, Unstable Wall and Barbed Trap I'm guessing. No spammable and no Lightning Flood lol.

Welcome to how Stam DPS feel Mag specs..

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

LiquidPony wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

@Marshall1289 @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO Entropic Touch seems to be the new name for the Volatile Familiar's basic melee attack.

And it feels fine in testing, better than using Scalding Rune. Would be even stronger on a magden (+6% magic damage) or a magnecro (+10% DoT damage) I assume. Also the tooltip for the synergy is nearly 12k damage fully buffed up, so if 7 other DDs all pop your orb that's an additional 84k damage every 20 seconds.

pretty sure the synergy can crit too, so way more then 84k. how does this make you feel, running orbs on a dps?

Pretty cool actually. Stam DPS run spiders, mag DPS run orbs.

And yeah, it can crit, it should be much higher in practice. Maybe like 7k+ DPS added to the group if everyone synergizes off cooldown? Maybe more? Dunno, would have to test with a full group using it probably. It's really strong either way, even without the synergy.

i agree with you, i love supporting the group, with more than just good dps. though i just want to point out, you only have 340 ticks of orbs on that parse, which is 226 seconds long, which mean that you could have had ~450 ticks with orbs, you are missing out on ~32% of the potential ticks and therefore damage, from the skill. is this because of the floating nature or you just not used to casting the skill?

also, @masel what do you think about this?

MashmalloMan

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

@Marshall1289 @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO Entropic Touch seems to be the new name for the Volatile Familiar's basic melee attack.

And it feels fine in testing, better than using Scalding Rune. Would be even stronger on a magden (+6% magic damage) or a magnecro (+10% DoT damage) I assume. Also the tooltip for the synergy is nearly 12k damage fully buffed up, so if 7 other DDs all pop your orb that's an additional 84k damage every 20 seconds.

pretty sure the synergy can crit too, so way more then 84k. how does this make you feel, running orbs on a dps?

Pretty cool actually. Stam DPS run spiders, mag DPS run orbs.

And yeah, it can crit, it should be much higher in practice. Maybe like 7k+ DPS added to the group if everyone synergizes off cooldown? Maybe more? Dunno, would have to test with a full group using it probably. It's really strong either way, even without the synergy.

i agree with you, i love supporting the group, with more than just good dps. though i just want to point out, you only have 340 ticks of orbs on that parse, which is 226 seconds long, which mean that you could have had ~450 ticks with orbs, you are missing out on ~32% of the potential ticks and therefore damage, from the skill. is this because of the floating nature or you just not used to casting the skill?

also, @masel what do you think about this?

I'm guessing the rotation was static and maybe just a little too close to the target which is honestly more reasonable for the majority of the player base and a better representation of that builds potential.

The rotation had to be at least 8.5-9s long so you can let unstable wall explode, possibly even 10-10.5s if you want most dots to get it's last tick.

2m/s with 8m radius means at 8m from your target you get 16m for damage ticks which is 8s of damage. Zaan caps at 8m distance so this is kind of perfect. If he stood at 6m too close, he effectively cut out 1s out of 8s on the ability. If the static rotation was about 10s long, that is about 7/10s on the rotation for damage or 32% less ticks.

TLDR: Not sure if it could of been any better.

LiquidPony

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

@Marshall1289 @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO Entropic Touch seems to be the new name for the Volatile Familiar's basic melee attack.

And it feels fine in testing, better than using Scalding Rune. Would be even stronger on a magden (+6% magic damage) or a magnecro (+10% DoT damage) I assume. Also the tooltip for the synergy is nearly 12k damage fully buffed up, so if 7 other DDs all pop your orb that's an additional 84k damage every 20 seconds.

pretty sure the synergy can crit too, so way more then 84k. how does this make you feel, running orbs on a dps?

Pretty cool actually. Stam DPS run spiders, mag DPS run orbs.

And yeah, it can crit, it should be much higher in practice. Maybe like 7k+ DPS added to the group if everyone synergizes off cooldown? Maybe more? Dunno, would have to test with a full group using it probably. It's really strong either way, even without the synergy.

i agree with you, i love supporting the group, with more than just good dps. though i just want to point out, you only have 340 ticks of orbs on that parse, which is 226 seconds long, which mean that you could have had ~450 ticks with orbs, you are missing out on ~32% of the potential ticks and therefore damage, from the skill. is this because of the floating nature or you just not used to casting the skill?

also, @masel what do you think about this?

I'm guessing the rotation was static and maybe just a little too close to the target which is honestly more reasonable for the majority of the player base and a better representation of that builds potential.

The rotation had to be at least 8.5-9s long so you can let unstable wall explode, possibly even 10-10.5s if you want most dots to get it's last tick.

2m/s with 8m radius means at 8m from your target you get 16m for damage ticks which is 8s of damage. Zaan caps at 8m distance so this is kind of perfect. If he stood at 6m too close, he effectively cut out 1s out of 8s on the ability. If the static rotation was about 10s long, that is about 7/10s on the rotation for damage or 32% less ticks.

TLDR: Not sure if it could of been any better.

I don't think it's possible to have a "static" rotation on any mag spec right now due to the huge amount of DoTs and their varying durations. It was completely dynamic, all DoTs cast off cooldown as much as possible.

The missed ticks are likely due to distance, since Barbed Trap is in the rotation. I'll try adjusting distance a bit to see if I can increase the Orbs DPS.

I don't really play magsorc any more and I only parsed Orbs a couple of times so I'm sure there's plenty of room for improvement one way or the other.

ccfeeling

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

@Marshall1289 @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO Entropic Touch seems to be the new name for the Volatile Familiar's basic melee attack.

And it feels fine in testing, better than using Scalding Rune. Would be even stronger on a magden (+6% magic damage) or a magnecro (+10% DoT damage) I assume. Also the tooltip for the synergy is nearly 12k damage fully buffed up, so if 7 other DDs all pop your orb that's an additional 84k damage every 20 seconds.

pretty sure the synergy can crit too, so way more then 84k. how does this make you feel, running orbs on a dps?

Pretty cool actually. Stam DPS run spiders, mag DPS run orbs.

And yeah, it can crit, it should be much higher in practice. Maybe like 7k+ DPS added to the group if everyone synergizes off cooldown? Maybe more? Dunno, would have to test with a full group using it probably. It's really strong either way, even without the synergy.

i agree with you, i love supporting the group, with more than just good dps. though i just want to point out, you only have 340 ticks of orbs on that parse, which is 226 seconds long, which mean that you could have had ~450 ticks with orbs, you are missing out on ~32% of the potential ticks and therefore damage, from the skill. is this because of the floating nature or you just not used to casting the skill?

also, @masel what do you think about this?

Sounds interesting , I will give it a try

xeNNNNN

Marshall1289 wrote: »

These opinions are coming from someone who does not play as a healer, but has been slightly interested for some time so take it with a grain of salt:

Happy to see some changes to the play style, spamming orbs and springs never seemed fun to me. HPS going down means maybe the healing done % stat will actually be important instead of basically building for regen (regen also less needed since orbs took up a huge chunk of sustain) and damage stats. So for the first time I'm actually considering making a healer next patch.

Last thing I'd like to see changed is the over reliance on War Horn. It looks like very boring gameplay for tanks and healers, a skill being essentially forced to be used because it's a direct DPS increase and tanking/healing ultimates aren't required in the meta with all the overhealing. I'd happily see it deleted since all dps in the game has sky rocketed beyond what it was even 2 years ago, obviously newer trials need to be balanced better because they make them with the current meta in mind.. I've just never seen an mmo quite like this 1 where those 2 roles seem slightly redundant and reduced to buff/debuff specs.

On another note, if you have orbs moving 2m/s with an 8m radius it makes it much easier for DPS to reach instead of running after a stray orb, now there's less spam, but you can rely on less spam of Springs so more chances for an orb every 5s or so.

Wall of elements and Illustrious healing now last 12s freeing up GCD's and simplifying some of the rotation. Cast an orb every 4-6s since if your dps is stacked and you are about 6m from your target. it would take about that time for the orb to pass out of range for healing and around 5s ensures a proper interval for someone to catch the next orb when it's available if they missed it or the synergy was on CD. This also helps increase minor berserk uptime since you have more time now to cast your aoe burst heal.

ZOS knows classes lack an aoe hot like Templar and are adjusting as such to bring them in line as seen with the Warden and future Sorc change, so the concern of current HPS being too little can still be adjusted, but this removal of reliance on spamming 2 skills is great at least from my perspective to see.

On the note of Sorc healer: They should change Surge to provide Major Brutality and Major Sorcery on the base. I'd expect Crit Surge to add additional healing for just yourself as it's morph and Power Surge to allow less healing, but provide the heal to anyone in a 12m radius from yourself. This would help double down on Sorc being a "dps type healer role". Lightning splash (used for the synergy) only does damage, but combined with a new Power Surge would help proc the pseudo hot. This also reinforces the idea of the persistent damage from Matriarch on your burst heal and Minor Prophecy providing Spell Crit.

@Marshall1289

Healing response;

In regards to the playstyle the "spam" people talk about was never coming from healers who knew what they were doing 100% A lot of the view of "spam" comes from more mindless content and some hard mode raids which frankly push you into it. I can't state enough just how much more the healers do for the groups they are in than just spaming out 2 abilities.

From here on in I am trying to be a bit more patient with people but I am getting tired of the same old generalisation of healers lately it is incredibly frustrating when after all your efforts and such the wider community reduces you to the idea of a mindless spammer that does nothing else as if its an easy job that anyone can do at good level, easy to start hard to master and its the latter there that is important.

I've been healing for over 3 years in this game - I've never felt the need to just mindlessly spam because you need to do much more than that and a great many healers dont either (obviously some do otherwise this perspective would not exist), there is of course certain exceptions to this in some hardmodes but thats a given. I've noticed that the change is being welcomed far more by non-healers and I understand why from their perspective and of course from the more knowledgeable people in the community in terms of optimal numbers and so fourth the "brain trust" i like to call them. But for many of us it just frustrates and already thankless role in the game - which it really is because when it comes down to it the DDs are always the ones to immediately blame the healers or tanks for failure regardless of whether or not it was their fault this even happens in higher end groups sadly.

It may seem silly but because of all of that healing can become a lot less fun and a lot less engaging if you curb their flexibility and freedom of casting (I know people are probably sick of those two words being in my every comment but they are the point of the thread and important to me playing the role that I do), just with something as simple as capping orbs 1. Even the grand healing stacking change messes with that because prior to these changes it allowed you to help the DDs while focusing on the tank when needed and vice versa now you have to pick and choose and while it isn't necessarily a bad thing to force that choice it also doesn't make it a good one (which I think there is where the "opinion" aspect of all this comes in to play really).

EDIT: I did ramble a bit above, I apologise but if you've made it this far thank you for reading that, I am venting a bit here.

My general concern has been less for myself since seeing the week 1 notes and more for groups that already struggle I know I will be fine "begrudgingly" even if healing for me will not be as fun as it is currently - though this thread is just me frustrated with imo excessive functionality changes and caps that while seem "ok" on the surface it will make things a lot more boring and frustrating - as you pointed out it does free up GCDs but my issue is that those GCDs will likely just turn into over use of combat prayer, or BoL (or the warden equivalent) or just Heavy attacking for god knows how long. I've always advocated reducing healing output without messing with the functionality which could of easily been done. I even suggested a diminishing returns aspect to orbs which I think would of worked out far better (keeping the "everyone can synergize it" aspect) and it would of taught those who do spam to stop spamming stupidly in other words, inexperienced healers.

I should also note that while you are technically correct that it would help minor beserk up time, beserk up time wasn't really an issue to begin with on live thats more down to the individual in question not focusing on what they should be in healing rotations (losing focus happens for a lot of people and thus they mess up) less of a game issue and more of a people issue. This will however hurt off-balance up time for a lot of people due to the likely possibility of people switching from charged backbar to powered just to ensure healing done - not set in stone of course but I wouldn't be overly shocked if this happened.

I cannot truly comment on sorcs as I dont have a sorc healer so I simply will not directly only that I think this is much harder on them and other off-meta healers than it should be.

Warhorn response:

As for your view of warhorn I completely agree, One thing I loved about tanking when I did tank was that I could focus on keeping myself alive without needing to rely on the healers too much and without dying, then the whole buff sets on tank and healers started to really take off and well that was my "fun" gone there. I dont have an issue with that anymore however content is pretty much built around those set ups now which is both a good and a bad thing, but thats neither here nor there. The general issue I see is that there are some mechanics in this game where things like magma armor would just be better for the tank than popping warhorn even if warhorn is better for the group over all - if the MT dies the entire run can be ruined or almost ruined, I even tell my tanks to go full selfish in terms of ults in places like vSS because of the way dragon breath works even if they roll dodge the last tick it still hurts quite a bit.

The over use of warhorn stems from the fact (imo) that scores and achievements are gated behind damage which then equals to speed(time), death count (the mini game) and efficiency (mechanically). Warhorn is probably imo the most useful ultimate in the entire game frankly and it has been since well forever and that in of itself may indeed be the problem as a whole. It has no competition but it also requires too many people to slot it taking away huge utility from healers and tanks alike and a DD cannot slot it happily otherwise they lose damage as well. It needs competition or it needs a complete rework imo despite how good it is and how much I enjoy its use I do think in the grand scheme of things it is a problem that will probably rear its head later on.

Edit: Suggestion - Perhaps integrating warhorn into a 5 peice set? of course this could end up being far too powerful doing it this way but its possible if done correctly.


Apologies for the wall. Thank you for reading.

Iskiab

I actually really like the orb change. One cast every 8-10 seconds is better then having to cast it all the time. For a pve trial healer perspective it’s one of the best changes.

xeNNNNN

Iskiab wrote: »

I actually really like the orb change. One cast every 8-10 seconds is better then having to cast it all the time. For a pve trial healer perspective it’s one of the best changes.

Which is perfectly fine, we all have our views on it some like it some dont. I just feel these changes to be excessive. I guess in a nutshell, I dont like my play being restricted like this when it could of been done a far better way imo.

xeNNNNN

LiquidPony wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

@Marshall1289 @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO Entropic Touch seems to be the new name for the Volatile Familiar's basic melee attack.

And it feels fine in testing, better than using Scalding Rune. Would be even stronger on a magden (+6% magic damage) or a magnecro (+10% DoT damage) I assume. Also the tooltip for the synergy is nearly 12k damage fully buffed up, so if 7 other DDs all pop your orb that's an additional 84k damage every 20 seconds.

pretty sure the synergy can crit too, so way more then 84k. how does this make you feel, running orbs on a dps?

Pretty cool actually. Stam DPS run spiders, mag DPS run orbs.

And yeah, it can crit, it should be much higher in practice. Maybe like 7k+ DPS added to the group if everyone synergizes off cooldown? Maybe more? Dunno, would have to test with a full group using it probably. It's really strong either way, even without the synergy.

i agree with you, i love supporting the group, with more than just good dps. though i just want to point out, you only have 340 ticks of orbs on that parse, which is 226 seconds long, which mean that you could have had ~450 ticks with orbs, you are missing out on ~32% of the potential ticks and therefore damage, from the skill. is this because of the floating nature or you just not used to casting the skill?

also, @masel what do you think about this?

I'm guessing the rotation was static and maybe just a little too close to the target which is honestly more reasonable for the majority of the player base and a better representation of that builds potential.

The rotation had to be at least 8.5-9s long so you can let unstable wall explode, possibly even 10-10.5s if you want most dots to get it's last tick.

2m/s with 8m radius means at 8m from your target you get 16m for damage ticks which is 8s of damage. Zaan caps at 8m distance so this is kind of perfect. If he stood at 6m too close, he effectively cut out 1s out of 8s on the ability. If the static rotation was about 10s long, that is about 7/10s on the rotation for damage or 32% less ticks.

TLDR: Not sure if it could of been any better.

I don't think it's possible to have a "static" rotation on any mag spec right now due to the huge amount of DoTs and their varying durations. It was completely dynamic, all DoTs cast off cooldown as much as possible.

The missed ticks are likely due to distance, since Barbed Trap is in the rotation. I'll try adjusting distance a bit to see if I can increase the Orbs DPS.

I don't really play magsorc any more and I only parsed Orbs a couple of times so I'm sure there's plenty of room for improvement one way or the other.

I think others have caught on now haha

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/486311/this-means-a-single-orb-can-now-provide-a-synergy-to-anyone-in-its-path#latest