Vestige's double standard

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r34lian
r34lian
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I don't get as a AD faction loyalist why am I supposed to help EP zones repel AD invades? I just don't get it why would I help other faction even in skyrim you were supposed to join either of the faction imperial or stormclocks but here why it's like double standard once you're helping your faction other time you are repelling them trying to keep war going!
whereas in Cyrodil you're bound to your faction ,It feels more like lazy design they could've just blocked those quests for AD characters or go on creative way (not to be expected from them) make quests different.
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  • TiaFrye
    TiaFrye
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    Because Meridia sent you back to the past to make sure that meeting on Stirk is hold in the present. Without you saving other alliances' leaders and well alliances themselves there will be no peace treaty and no Coldharbour invasion.
    That's the point of Caldwell's quest and other alliances quests are part of Gold and Silver. At least it was the case back at launch.
    Edited by TiaFrye on July 21, 2019 10:39AM
  • darkblue5
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    They were originally blocked. Then they became Veteran Rank lands in Cadwell's Silver and Gold. (Due to players complaining about wanting to experience the whole game on the same character.)

    Later One Tamriel hit and continuity was laid aside for the whole playing with your friends thing... the horror!
  • almightyalfo
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    Nobody is forcing you to do DC/ep questlines if you don't want to.

    I also personally disliked the whole high elf questline cause I think high elves are basically Tamriel's nazis. (Y'know, the whole "thalmor" thingy)
    Edited by almightyalfo on July 21, 2019 10:39AM
    PC-EU
    Daggerfall Covenant only

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  • r34lian
    r34lian
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    darkblue5 wrote: »
    They were originally blocked. Then they became Veteran Rank lands in Cadwell's Silver and Gold. (Due to players complaining about wanting to experience the whole game on the same character.)

    Later One Tamriel hit and continuity was laid aside for the whole playing with your friends thing... the horror!

    But then that takes away fun , curiosity of experiencing other factions futhur most EP hero or DC hero achievments shouldn't be available for AD player.
    2000 CP • 18 Maxed Characters • 6 Altmers • 7 Redguards • Necromancer Orc • Warden Dunmer • DK Nord • DK Imperial • Templar Breton
  • r34lian
    r34lian
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    Nobody is forcing you to do DC/ep questlines if you don't want to.

    I also personally disliked the whole high elf questline cause I think high elves are basically Tamriel's nazis. (Y'know, the whole "thalmor" thingy)

    Most of the races are nazis whether be it nords in skyrim or dunmer in morrowind or lizards in black marsh or orcs in there stronghold.
    2000 CP • 18 Maxed Characters • 6 Altmers • 7 Redguards • Necromancer Orc • Warden Dunmer • DK Nord • DK Imperial • Templar Breton
  • Danikat
    Danikat
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    If you go to another factions zones after completing your own it's explained - it's an alternate timeline where you were dumped out of Coldharbour in a different location. (Since in the story that's the only thing which determines which Alliance you fight for, like many of the soldiers and mercenaries you can be any race, it's just a matter of who recruited you first.)

    As for why they did it, originally you were locked into playing only your alliances maps, but people hated the idea of each character only being able to play 1/3 of the game (especially if they only wanted 1 character) so before launch ZOS added ways to go to other alliances zones, then One Tamriel opened it up completely.

    If it bothers you then you could avoid those maps, or only go there as part of Cadwells Almanac where it's explained.

    And yes, there probably are ways they could have done it better but I think ZOS expected PvP to be more important to more people, meaning both that your Alliance would be more important and that you wouldn't want more PvE content because once you got to level 50 and finished the main story you'd focus on PvP. So once it became apparent that wasn't the case they needed a relatively quick fix instead of redoing the entire design.
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  • TiaFrye
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    r34lian wrote: »

    But then that takes away fun , curiosity of experiencing other factions futhur most EP hero or DC hero achievments shouldn't be available for AD player.

    As was said above, technically and first of all you are a daedric champion and only after - hero for your or other race. Blocking questlines for ultimate protagonist only because he chose to go see the Isles first? Pardon me, but that's rediculous. Just don't do them, period.
  • almightyalfo
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    r34lian wrote: »

    Most of the races are nazis whether be it nords in skyrim or dunmer in morrowind or lizards in black marsh or orcs in there stronghold.

    I actually need to agree with you.
    PC-EU
    Daggerfall Covenant only

    My Characters [All CP 810+]:
    Aeriel Nightvale (Bosmer StamDK) - "Stormproof" - Crafter
    Ranzaiq Longclaw (Khajiit StamPlar) - "The Merciless" - Stamina DD (PVE/PVP)
    Freiya Winterborn (Nord StamDen) - "Paragon" - Stamina DD (PVP)
    Rayna the Desecrator (Dunmer StamNecro) - "Sunspire Saint" - Stamina DD (PVE)
    Heals-Many-Scars (Argonian MagPlar) - "Sunspire Saint" - Healer (PVE)
    Burgdul gro-Burek (Orc StamDK) - "Thane of Falkreath" - Tank (PVE)
    Erisa gro-Burek (Orc StamSorc) - "Orderly" - Stamina DD (PVP)
    Auguste Valeine (Breton MagPlar) - "Stormproof" - Magicka DD (PVE)
  • RexyCat
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    r34lian wrote: »

    But then that takes away fun , curiosity of experiencing other factions futhur most EP hero or DC hero achievments shouldn't be available for AD player.

    Be happy that you aren't considered a hostile in EP or DC any more as you would be in old days. If you had gone to other Alliance zone before you had started Caldwell Silver and later Gold quest lines in zones that where outside of your Alliance map, you would have to fight both NPC from quest and all other NPCs in that zone. That is one reason why those changes where made with One Tamriel. Players where forced to stay in each instance until they had finished it and at that time without scaling most players would have a hard time to survive or kill anything (veteran, no Champion Point system), when they didn't have the right level for that zone.

    Alliance hero as EP or DC where for those that did Caldwell story line and completed certain requirements as for what they had to do (completing quests, explore and find certain waypoints etc). They do not have anything to do on which side you are fighting for as the main point as far as the original MQ where that each side had their own issues that is reflected all three Alliances and their internal factions (races). Vestige is a mediator and to some degree a representative of Meridia.

    PvP with Cyrodiil and later Imperial City is more focused on the chaos war creates. Here your character isn't a Vestige any more, but only one among many other PC. If you look at story lines here those a much shorter (just to gain AP and some loot) and made to get around in Cyrodiil or IC sewers (there sewers and above ground which each have their own mechanic with PvE and PvP elements). In short PvP isn't related in the way that Vestige is the leading character to get the story going, but instead only a PC to reflect different small story to get player around in Cyrodiil (and IC) and to get an understanding for what is going on in the larger picture. The same is true for Imperial City dungeons that relate some of that story.

    //RexyCat

  • KerinKor
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    RexyCat wrote: »
    If you had gone to other Alliance zone before you had started Caldwell Silver and later Gold quest lines in zones that where outside of your Alliance map
    I don't recall now but was it actually possible to do that? Given how the alliances' zones were connected I now don't remember how someone in, say AD, could actually get to Daggerfall .. what was the transport mechanism, there were no Waypoints available before you entered a zone back then, no Navigator NPCs as far as I can recall either?

    Edited by KerinKor on July 21, 2019 11:22AM
  • Ydrisselle
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    Nobody is forcing you to do DC/ep questlines if you don't want to.

    I also personally disliked the whole high elf questline cause I think high elves are basically Tamriel's nazis. (Y'know, the whole "thalmor" thingy)

    Well, that faction is called Veiled Heritance in ESO, and they are one of your main enemies as the Vestige. The Thalmor of the Second Era is a little bit different, and if Queen Ayrenn would be more successful - we know she isn't - there wouldn't be any problem with them in the future.
  • mairwen85
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    There are a few npcs who shouldn't work together either, but do... Pivotal story characters at that (a certain khajiit and Breton for example) - - traitors? :wink:
    Edited by mairwen85 on July 21, 2019 12:47PM
  • MellowMagic
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    r34lian wrote: »

    Most of the races are nazis whether be it nords in skyrim or dunmer in morrowind or lizards in black marsh or orcs in there stronghold.

    Races preferring to be around others of the same race isnt being a ***, lol. As an imperial I would like to see more cohesion among Beastial and human races (for the sake of the empire) but at the same time it's important to keep the uniqueness of each culture in their homeland. I prefer a rainbow of colors verses a colourless smudge. I half agree that elves exhibit a basic *** ideology but I feel like that's a massive exaggeration for other races when it's really just nationalism or something along the lines of that. Dunmer and altmer are the only races I'd consider being "nazis" as they actively suppress other races (genocide, slavery) even in foreign lands. Nords although are huge *** to most elves, it's kinda reactionary if you ask me as no elf has respect for any nord and I'm pretty sure atmorans were attacked first by the snow elves? I may be wrong about that. Sorry for the rant lmfao.
    PC / NA @MellowMagic
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  • TheShadowScout
    TheShadowScout
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    r34lian wrote: »
    I don't get as a AD faction loyalist why am I supposed to help EP zones repel AD invades?...
    Well... you kinda aren't, fluff-wise.
    You are looking at things in an "what if" alternate universe, more or less, done by Meridia so you could "experience things from the other alliances point of view"... I know, I know, its pretty lame excuse.

    And much worse, then things went "One Tamriel", they opened it up for all, so... eh.

    I still wish they had kept the cadwells regions seperate instances, and only opened up access to the "shared" regions after completing that one... but... alas.
    Or at least had the NPCs only acknowledge character achievements and choices from their -home- region...
    r34lian wrote: »

    Most of the races are nazis whether be it nords in skyrim or dunmer in morrowind or lizards in black marsh or orcs in there stronghold.
    Hey, racism is pretty much fitting the "medieval" theme. Doesn#t matter who, everyone thinks they are special, they are the gods chosen people, they are the master race, they are favored by fate, they are the ones who know the truth, they are the ones destined for greatness... etc. Doesn't matter if bosmer or dunmer, orc or argonian, altmer or imperial.
    The only differences is how they go about expressing it.
    ...
    ...usually that involved some sort of violence, slavery, attempted conquest or genocide, whatever.

    Not like we didn't play the exact same game in the historical middle ages sort of times, right? No matter it medieval europe or chinas warring states, anywhere you look you can find one period of strife around the time when people killed each other with sword and bow, where they kept the wars going on and off for centuries... and only expanded it as more and wider neighbors to war with became accessible.
    First fighting their neighboirs because this tribe had red hair and that tribe had blonde hair... then they meet some other culture which also followed different gods and maybe had bronze skin from living a bit more south, so they forgot about hair color and banded together as paleskins against duskyskins, and some time later there came another tribe from further away whose people maybe had even darker skin and also -the horror- curly hair, and then the paleskins and duskyskins who perhaps by that time had stolen a lot of culture from each other anyhow banded together in yet another conflict against -those- guys...
    Eventually the culture adcances, the wars get bloodier and more destructive, until most realize they have gotten too good at war and need to find other solutions or they will be surrounded by graves and ruins.

    So... by comparison, I'd say ESO is pretty tame at times... :p;)
  • xeNNNNN
    xeNNNNN
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    r34lian wrote: »

    But then that takes away fun , curiosity of experiencing other factions futhur most EP hero or DC hero achievments shouldn't be available for AD player.

    Its not really the fault of the game or the stories but the communities.
    Ah, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.
  • AhPook_Is_Here
    AhPook_Is_Here
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    r34lian wrote: »
    I don't get as a AD faction loyalist why am I supposed to help EP zones repel AD invades? I just don't get it why would I help other faction even in skyrim you were supposed to join either of the faction imperial or stormclocks but here why it's like double standard once you're helping your faction other time you are repelling them trying to keep war going!
    whereas in Cyrodil you're bound to your faction ,It feels more like lazy design they could've just blocked those quests for AD characters or go on creative way (not to be expected from them) make quests different.

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  • RebornV3x
    RebornV3x
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    I just role play my main character as a mercenary/handyman sort of like Bronn from Game of Thrones. I have no real allegiance to any one faction outside of Cyrodill I travel the land and for the right price I help NPCs and lucky for me nobody seems to care about my war crimes outside of Cyrodill.
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  • MartiniDaniels
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    For me as a relatively new player (from 2018) one tamriel looks like a huge mistake.
    Only now after completion half of the game, things start to make sense, before that all felt like load of horse **** with missions for different alliances and main quest in parallel which seemed like dolmens and worm cult should be defeated and in the same time they were operating in overland like nothing happened.
  • NotaDaedraWorshipper
    NotaDaedraWorshipper
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    It's a game mechanic so people can do everything on one character and play with friends etc.

    Or from the ingame reasoning from Meridia: It's a "What if" scenario.
    [Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!
  • Robo_Hobo
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    It's technically supposed to be a "what if" time travel/dream/memory thing Meridia helped you with so you could see things from your enemies perspective to prepare you for future threats to the world.

    Except that explanation kind of falls flat when NPCs from those other alliances recognize you and reference your involvement in those "what if" quests you did, and the next thing you know you're standing in Wayrest after having a chat with Emeric, and a passing Dunmer NPC thanks you for stopping the Covenant in Stonefalls.

    So, personally, I avoid doing Cadwell's Silver/Gold on RP questing characters, as well as Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood if they aren't actually thieves or assassins.

    It's nice that the option is there but the way it's implenented and explained is a little lackluster for storytelling and immersion.
  • Salvas_Aren
    Salvas_Aren
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    Why do i get a bounty in an alliance that is valid in another?

    Killing dominion citizens and soldiers should earn me the title of greatest pact/covenant hero.
  • FilteredRiddle
    FilteredRiddle
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    The only way this technically happens, is if you do the quests out of order.

    The way the game worked originally (and can still work) is that:
    1. You complete your main alliance quest
    2. You complete Coldharbour quest
    3. You complete Harborage quest
    4. You complete Cadwell’s Silver (second alliance quest)
    5. You complete Cadwell’s Gold (third alliance quest)

    For AD, it goes AD > EP > DC
    For EP, it goes EP > DC > AD
    For DC, it goes DC > AD > EP

    Then the Orsinium storyline picks-up after the completion of the above, then Morrowind, and so on and so forth.

    For #4 and #5, Cadwell tells you that you ended up in your initial alliance by a stroke of fate and that Meridian is giving you a chance to see what it would have been like had you washed up ashore in another land. The way I have taken it, in other words, is that when you begin Cadwell’s Silver, it’s almost like an alternate timeline where you’re experiencing what life could have been like. The same goes for Cadwell’s Gold. However, once you have completed Gold the three timelines converge and you’re the hero of all of these things but you’re somehow now the ultimate hero of your original alliance. In other words, everyone recognizes all of your deeds across all of Tamriel, but only will your first alliance recognize your right to fight for them in the Three Banners War. While I liked One Tamriel, I really only liked it for the ability to do dungeon content, lore books, etc, with guild mates. For story content, I think it was a major set-back.
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  • therift
    therift
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    Why do i get a bounty in an alliance that is valid in another?

    Killing dominion citizens and soldiers should earn me the title of greatest pact/covenant hero.

    Because you're stirring up trouble outside of Cyrodiil. None of the Alliance leaders want the war spilling over n thier heartlands, so they have the Tamriel equivalent of Interpol.
  • logarifmik
    logarifmik
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    The narrative of the game is "fractured, but whole", and unfortunately I don't see how it can be fixed. Even Cadwell's silver/gold system was questionable, but not as bad as it became with 1T. "Freedom of movement", which is a good thing, leads to "prostitute loyalty", and multiply by zero the whole main character thing. It's not a character, it's a hole in the narrative, which can't be adequately filled.
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  • Mik195
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    Because you don't have an option to skip the alliance.
    Edited by Mik195 on July 21, 2019 7:15PM
  • JKorr
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    r34lian wrote: »

    But then that takes away fun , curiosity of experiencing other factions futhur most EP hero or DC hero achievments shouldn't be available for AD player.

    Complain to the players who complained, loudly, that they wanted to do all the content for all the factions on one character because they didn't want to make alts. Or something along those lines.

    When you get the chance to do Cadwell's Silver and Gold you are told this is a chance to see what might have happened if you landed in a different place. Think pocket alternate universe of what might have been. Nothing you do is real. Of course the Silver and Gold stories are totally optional, so if it offends your immurshion, skip it and go do the dlc and chapters where you're just you.

    I have no issues with getting the achivements on characters; if my character did the work, then she deserves the achievement. That the work took place in Meridia's alternate universe really makes no difference.
  • Varana
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    - You're not forced to be a "faction loyalist", that is entirely your personal choice. Act according to that choice, don't accept other alliances' quests. Don't complain to ZOS (or about other players!) about things that you should be doing.

    - Other players shouldn't be forced to conform to your standard of how to act regarding alliances. They may not feel the same connection to their alliance, and that is entirely their choice, and everyone telling them it's "wrong bad fun" should bugger off.


    - The Elder Scrolls series is about player freedom, and that requires player responsibility. If you want to do everything on one character, you're free to do so. You can justify that in your headcanon, if you want. Or not, and just ignore any contradictions. You're free to not care about half of the game world, or the story making sense. You're also free to impose roleplaying restrictions on your character, like being loyal to one alliance, or being a goody-two-shoes and staying clear of the Dark Brotherhood, or only doing Telvanni quests. It is your responsibility to do that, the game lets you choose.
    Edited by Varana on July 21, 2019 10:35PM
  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
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    r34lian wrote: »
    ... I just don't get it ...

    Maybe if you hadn't skipped over the dialog where all this is explained in detail ...
    rolleyes.gif

  • barney2525
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    I think at the end of each Alliance questline you should be in bed, wake up, and realize it was all a dream.


    :#
  • r34lian
    r34lian
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    barney2525 wrote: »
    I think at the end of each Alliance questline you should be in bed, wake up, and realize it was all a dream.


    :#

    Now this makes sense
    2000 CP • 18 Maxed Characters • 6 Altmers • 7 Redguards • Necromancer Orc • Warden Dunmer • DK Nord • DK Imperial • Templar Breton
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