New Meta: Hybrid Classes

Skoomah

If we take a step back and think about it, every patch has been about subtle to drastic changes. The developers hint at a new method or formula to be the most optimal, the most powerful each patch. They want us to crack the code without giving us any hints as to how. The metas have always been making one class slightly or way more powerful than another. But now with the skills audit, maybe the new subtle hint ZOS is trying to have us understand and crack the code is... Classes and how to build your character is supposed to be a super sayan hybrid that takes the best elements from each class? You still get to keep a skill or two that defines your hybrid but you get access to most of the cool stuff from all other classes.

What “hybrid” of different class archetypes are you going to make?

MincVinyl

no

ItsNotLiving

no

Nerhesi

No - but it's because the fundamentally flawed nature of skill effectiveness all being based on your single primary stat.

This is what puts the game in currently poor state where your heals, shields, damage, etc is all based off your single stat. This is something that was overlooked as part of the design... or at least the impact was overlooked. Hence why, a hybrid will always be terrible choice.

The only way this changes if they sensibly reconfigure the game to such a degree that you can't have great damage AND great healing - even self only healing. Or that resource pools get exhausted and if you're doing great damage then you have terrible sustain.

Again - not very likely without massive changes which are likely not to happen. Until then, the meta will always be "How can I have great, sustain, heal, damage, mitigation and mobility all at once"

MincVinyl

yes

heng14rwb17_ESO

GO PURE OR GO CRY !

Iskiab

With the way abilities scale you’re almost always better specializing. Abilities only scale from either mag or stam so if you split your stats all your abilities will do less damage.

In pve your stats and buffs are huge, boost them as much as possible.

Itacira

I WISH that were the case. Or at least that hybrid builds were viable. Alas, for me, we're not quite there yet.

IronWooshu

No, that would also make Dark Elf or Khajiit the absolute meta race.

Skoomah

Maybe that’s next. First, harmonize the skills and classes. Second, rework how power scales.

Reward players for experience and knowledge. The more you know about classes, playstyles, etc. the more effective the theorycrafting will be. There will be more to theorycraft since we will access to a deeper and wider selection of choices.

MartiniDaniels

You may run hybrid in PVP. Not top-notch, but decent and what's important - surprising to enemy.

Deathlord92

All I want is stamina racial passives on my Breton and I will be happy 🙂

Skoomah

Think about it...

A sorcerer with a hint of nightblade.

A dragonknight with a hint of Necromancer and hint of Warden.

A sorcerer with a hint of Templar.

The combinations are endless!

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx

This ain't it Chief

TheBonesXXX

Purists pollute this thread.

Ill always be pro hybrid.

Ozby

Jack of all trades, master of none

ZeroXFF

Ozby wrote: »

Jack of all trades, master of none

...though oftentimes better than a master of one.

Please use the complete quote.

LMar

The OP is not talking about hybrid as in magicka and stamina both being used, but rather mix and matching gameplay styles from different classes

Austinseph1

It’s just a different way of saying homogenized gameplay. Before the patch there will be 6 different class styles with stam and mag morphs. After there will just be stam or mag with different color abilities but the same main dots, sets, and rotations. Why would I bother having multiple characters if they all feel the same? It’s just not as fun.

mocap

i play hybrid dd/healer since 2015. Nothing new for me.

Feralmyst

Not sure I agree with Skoomah, but on the general topic of hybrids, my main has been a hybrid NB for almost a year now - definitely the most fun in the game

validifyedneb18_ESO

I want you to be right, but I dont think you are.

I would like to see DDs become more self reliant with healing, to open up non stack mechanics, but with only 2 healers currently its unlikely that adding more healing is worth it, or would allow you to only have 1 healer as a trade for more damage.

RiskyChalice863

A hybrid can be decent if you pump weapon damage and use Pelinals. Almost every ability in the game scales off of a stat AND weapon/spell damage, so you’re not actually gimping yourself that much.

Of course, your max stats will be lower than a normal build. But It’s harder to pump spell damage than weapon damage, so a maxed out weapon damage build with only like 20k Magicka can actually be about as strong with Magicka skills as a Magicka focused build. The stamina abilities will always be a bit weaker than on a focused Stam build though because the weapon damage will be similar but your stamina will be lower. You also will be generally weaker by virtue of using a 5-set bonus just to get the hybrid, rather than having a different bonus.

Sustain will also be a bit harder. It’s a bit harder to juggle two smaller stat pools instead of one. And if you’ve pumped weapon damage you’ll have fewer overall resources to work with than a build that pumped Magicka or Stam (though obviously you’re using both pools for lots of abilities, but non-hybrids typically still use the other pool for things too). Having both mag and Stam recovery be quite relevant to the abilities you’ll be using a lot helps with sustain I think, but again, you still benefit some from your off-stat’s recovery on normal builds (for instance, a Magicka character still benefits from Stam recovery because it allows more blocking, dodging, and breaking free).

So those are the negatives. But the positives are a massive amount of flexibility in what skills you use. And I’ve seen builds that utilize combos of both mag and stamina abilities in a way that non-hybrid builds couldn’t. I think the upshot is that it can be decent but there’s a definite trade off and it’s not worth it unless you’re really taking advantage of the flexibility.

Finedaible

They are buffing grindy skill lines and nerfing class skills so they can sell their new shiny pay-to-play skillline tokens in in the cash shop. There's not other reason for these changes other than greed. They didn't care about gameplay until they could monetize it.

Skoomah

I want to make a Stam DK that can cloak, teleport 20 meters, and heal teammates to full instantly. Hybrid Class Build (DK + NB + Sorc + Templar). Fun!

Rex-Umbra

Hybrids never excel

goldenflameslinger

I wish people talked more about what builds are fun to play instead of what’s Meta. I get hung up with chasing meta too but it sucks a lot of the fun out of the game.

Skoomah

goldenflameslinger wrote: »

I wish people talked more about what builds are fun to play instead of what’s Meta. I get hung up with chasing meta too but it sucks a lot of the fun out of the game.

I’ll take you up on your challenge and post some builds tonight... that are both fun as hell and completely slaughter in PvP.

Davadin

i'll agree with the "NO" response because hybrid is really hard to pull off to match a specialized build...

...BUT with a couple skills now got "scales to magic OR physical whichever higher" condition, i think it's good to have more option, that's all.

Skoomah

We’re talking hybrid builds beyond just within your class. We’re talking hybrid builds taking elements from all classes.

Red_Feather

Guild Wars 1 did a system that allowed the combination of two professions. It was very clever how it was done and the depth it offered for long term character growth was huge and refreshing.

In GW1 I played for thousands of hours and mained a mesmer/monk, mesmer/assassin, mesmer/ritualist and mesmer/elementalist! I miss those days. I spent hours theory-crafting every weekend.

People would say the game was inspired by magic the gathering and I guess that's why it sucked me in for so long.
Here's an interesting read from the founder and lead developer of the game.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars/comments/a0kehb/in_our_search_we_were_inspired_by_magic_the/