Give Minor Force to Fire Rune/Scalding Rune or Another Non-Class Magicka Damaging Ability.

berzerkdethb14_ESO1

Stam users have a damage ability to get minor force, magicka users have to take accelerate or use rearming trap which scales horribly.

From a PvE perspective, it would help close the gap on magicka and stamina DPS if we had a damaging ability that scaled from magicka which gives this buff OR potions could provide it.

Channeled Accelerate gives no damage benefit and has a cast time, most people who care about their damage numbers use the rearming trap because at least it does something.

Wouldn't it make sense for the magicka version of the "trap" to grant minor force as well? Trap for trap. It just makes good sense. Even if it's just on the non-CC/dot version of the ability (Scalding Rune)

Sandman929

berzerkdethb14_ESO1 wrote: »

Since in my last thread most people seem to have completely missed the point (I forget most people now only read article titles), stam users have a damage ability to get minor force, magicka users have to take accelerate or use rearming trap which scales horribly.

From a PvE perspective, it would help close the gap on magicka and stamina DPS if we had a damaging ability that scaled from magicka which gives this buff OR potions could provide it.

Channeled Accelerate gives no damage benefit and has a cast time, most people who care about their damage numbers use the rearming trap because at least it does something.

Wouldn't it make sense for the magicka version of the "trap" to grant minor force as well?

Said this way, yes it makes sense that a non-class magicka source of minor berserk that's tied to a damage skill would be fine.

wheem_ESO

berzerkdethb14_ESO1 wrote: »

Since in my last thread most people seem to have completely missed the point (I forget most people now only read article titles, and I failed to disclose I am coming from a PvE mindset), stam users have a damage ability to get minor force, magicka users have to take accelerate or use rearming trap which scales horribly.

From a PvE perspective, it would help close the gap on magicka and stamina DPS if we had a damaging ability that scaled from magicka which gives this buff OR potions could provide it.

Channeled Accelerate gives no damage benefit and has a cast time, most people who care about their damage numbers use the rearming trap because at least it does something.

Wouldn't it make sense for the magicka version of the "trap" to grant minor force as well?

I read the thread, not just the title, and it was pretty obvious that you were coming from a PvE-only mindset (and Trials-only, at that). The proposed changed would have been ruinous for some classes in PvP, and also had a significant negative impact on slightly more casual PvE.

Adding Minor Force to the Fire Rune would be fine, and could help close the gap in PvE Trials. The only time that spell is ever used in PvP is for "trolling" people near opposing team spawn points in Battlegrounds, where knocking them in the air will cause death due to "Environmental damage." I suppose it could see occasional PvP use after the damage and cost changes, but I don't see many people finding the bar space for it. Adding Minor Force wouldn't really make much difference in that decision making process for PvP, and could help out somewhat in PvE; this suggestion is far better than the first one.

berzerkdethb14_ESO1

wheem_ESO wrote: »

berzerkdethb14_ESO1 wrote: »

Since in my last thread most people seem to have completely missed the point (I forget most people now only read article titles, and I failed to disclose I am coming from a PvE mindset), stam users have a damage ability to get minor force, magicka users have to take accelerate or use rearming trap which scales horribly.

From a PvE perspective, it would help close the gap on magicka and stamina DPS if we had a damaging ability that scaled from magicka which gives this buff OR potions could provide it.

Channeled Accelerate gives no damage benefit and has a cast time, most people who care about their damage numbers use the rearming trap because at least it does something.

Wouldn't it make sense for the magicka version of the "trap" to grant minor force as well?

I read the thread, not just the title, and it was pretty obvious that you were coming from a PvE-only mindset (and Trials-only, at that). The proposed changed would have been ruinous for some classes in PvP, and also had a significant negative impact on slightly more casual PvE.

Adding Minor Force to the Fire Rune would be fine, and could help close the gap in PvE Trials. The only time that spell is ever used in PvP is for "trolling" people near opposing team spawn points in Battlegrounds, where knocking them in the air will cause death due to "Environmental damage." I suppose it could see occasional PvP use after the damage and cost changes, but I don't see many people finding the bar space for it. Adding Minor Force wouldn't really make much difference in that decision making process for PvP, and could help out somewhat in PvE; this suggestion is far better than the first one.

People would use it instead of rearming trap in pve. Most likely it would just be applied to the version with a dot component for the duration of the dot rather than the hilarious version that slings people in the air.

My entire point was that it's silly that magicka users have to use a stamina ability to get this with a damage component.

Honestly, I completely forgot people even pvp in this game anymore. My pvp guild died and all my pvp friends have long moved on. Is it still a lag fest in cyrodil?

TheNightflame

tbh there's no reason it shouldn't. rune is almost identical in function to trap

luen79rwb17_ESO

Oh i like this idea alot!

ZOS please audit and standarize this, ty.

wheem_ESO

berzerkdethb14_ESO1 wrote: »

My entire point was that it's silly that magicka users have to use a stamina ability to get this with a damage component.

Honestly, I completely forgot people even pvp in this game anymore. My pvp guild died and all my pvp friends have long moved on. Is it still a lag fest in cyrodil?

Basically all of my PvP is done in Battlegrounds, rather than Cyrodiil, but primetime Cyrodiil is definitely quite laggy (to the point of essentially being unplayable if you're anywhere near a zerg group).

And yes, the Scalding Rune morph and the Trap Beast skill/morphs essentially do the same thing now, except that the Rune doesn't provide Minor Force (maybe the damage scaling on the ability itself is better? though I doubt that makes it comparable in PvE).

Deloth_Vyrr

wheem_ESO wrote: »

berzerkdethb14_ESO1 wrote: »

My entire point was that it's silly that magicka users have to use a stamina ability to get this with a damage component.

Honestly, I completely forgot people even pvp in this game anymore. My pvp guild died and all my pvp friends have long moved on. Is it still a lag fest in cyrodil?

Basically all of my PvP is done in Battlegrounds, rather than Cyrodiil, but primetime Cyrodiil is definitely quite laggy (to the point of essentially being unplayable if you're anywhere near a zerg group).

And yes, the Scalding Rune morph and the Trap Beast skill/morphs essentially do the same thing now, except that the Rune doesn't provide Minor Force (maybe the damage scaling on the ability itself is better? though I doubt that makes it comparable in PvE).

The damage scaling of Barbed Trap (formerly rearming trap) is basically on par with other single target DOTs for stam now. There's no reason to withold this buff from the mirrored magicka skill

Wolfpaw

berzerkdethb14_ESO1 wrote: »

Stam users have a damage ability to get minor force, magicka users have to take accelerate or use rearming trap which scales horribly.

From a PvE perspective, it would help close the gap on magicka and stamina DPS if we had a damaging ability that scaled from magicka which gives this buff OR potions could provide it.

Channeled Accelerate gives no damage benefit and has a cast time, most people who care about their damage numbers use the rearming trap because at least it does something.

Wouldn't it make sense for the magicka version of the "trap" to grant minor force as well? Trap for trap. It just makes good sense.

Yes it does.

berzerkdethb14_ESO1

ZoS, Stamina is still pulling approximately 15ish% higher +/- 5% (depending on the class) to their magicka version. While this is better than it is on live, this change wouldn't even begin to seal the gap, but would be a great start. Please consider this.

Frankly, needing to rely on a stamina ability is clunky and strange.

Zelos

No, if you want minor force for magicka you have to pay for it.

berzerkdethb14_ESO1

Zelos wrote: »

No, if you want minor force for magicka you have to pay for it.

pay to minor force?

LukosCreyden

I like this idea much more than the previous one. Both the rune and the trap even have the same "feel" to them. This would be a good change.

master_vanargand

Do you dislike Beast Trap?
If so use Channeled Acceleration.

BrokenGameMechanics

berzerkdethb14_ESO1 wrote: »

ZoS, Stamina is still pulling approximately 15ish% higher +/- 5% (depending on the class) to their magicka version. While this is better than it is on live, this change wouldn't even begin to seal the gap, but would be a great start.

Damage against a dummy should be equal when all other things are equal.

For example, distance from target. Compare you favorite DPS stam build with a DPS Mag build at 20 meters from dummy. If you are asking that a Mag build at 15-20 meters from target should do the exact same DPS as a Stam build at 5 meters from the target ... why should this be the case?

That said I agree with the OP's suggestion in principle.

MellowMagic

Yeah either add that buff to rune or take the major sorc buff off entropy and just put minor force on it instead just so you're mot slotting 3 mage guild abilities on every magic toon (with inner light). I dont play much on magic toons but I agree channelled acceleration feels wierd to use mid battle.

idk

OP’s thoughts on the mater are very flawed. The difference between stam and magicka is not the damage from rearming trap. That should be obvious.

karekiz

Fire run - range Melee - basically a mag clone of trap.

Standardize that sucker.

berzerkdethb14_ESO1

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

berzerkdethb14_ESO1 wrote: »

ZoS, Stamina is still pulling approximately 15ish% higher +/- 5% (depending on the class) to their magicka version. While this is better than it is on live, this change wouldn't even begin to seal the gap, but would be a great start.

Damage against a dummy should be equal when all other things are equal.

For example, distance from target. Compare you favorite DPS stam build with a DPS Mag build at 20 meters from dummy. If you are asking that a Mag build at 15-20 meters from target should do the exact same DPS as a Stam build at 5 meters from the target ... why should this be the case?

That said I agree with the OP's suggestion in principle.

I would like to introduce you to my buddy Zaan.

I'm also not asking for this, if you check my post history you will find that I have always said that stam should have a little higher dps due to range, however, on live a bow/bow build with sliemcraw could out dps literally every magicka build at range and compete with stamina in melee (BECAUSE OF A MINOR FORCE SET BONUS FROM FROSTVAULT BTW). It's too far as is, and for magicka to pull 15 to 20% less than stamina they have to be in melee range with Zaan and Rearming trap.

Caster's who push numbers haven't really been range for a long, long time (depending on the boss, obviously). If the gap were more reasonable, and there weren't all these reasons to stay in melee (don't get me started with magcro blast bones) I would 100% agree with you.

Back when magicka was out preforming stamina in every single way when the game first released, I was one of the chief people heralding the many, many problems with this. I actually play stam and magicka and enjoy both, but you have to admit (and it seems you have) needing to use a melee stamina ability to somewhat compete as a caster is asinine.

berzerkdethb14_ESO1

idk wrote: »

OP’s thoughts on the mater are very flawed. The difference between stam and magicka is not the damage from rearming trap. That should be obvious.

I said it would HELP to close the gap, and you have clearly missed the point completely. Even if it didn't add a single point of DPS (and it would, albeit small, but you do understand the entire reason bow/bow builds work on live is because of Tzogvin's Warband, right?) the point is that it makes no sense that it doesn't have minor force on it. It is essentially the mirror image of the melee trap (except WITHOUT minor force fire rune does LESS damage than trap) , and the above post notes that I understand why magicka tends to be a little lower dps.

The entire point of this thread is that it would HELP (note the word help, not fix) close the gap without making magicka overshadow melee.

This fact seems to be fairly obvious to everyone who has crossed this post, but ESO loves its contrarians.

Red_Feather

Does anyone use scalding rune. Either the tooltip is broken or it looks like garbage to me.

berzerkdethb14_ESO1

Red_Feather wrote: »

Does anyone use scalding rune. Either the tooltip is broken or it looks like garbage to me.

It's completely worthless, even with it's buffs on the PTS. Another reason I'm suggesting a further tweak to it so that it will have it's purpose in pve at least. There may be some uses as-is with one of the new set bonuses which add dps per dot you use, but even that is debatable because there exist better dot options to max it out.

Red_Feather

berzerkdethb14_ESO1 wrote: »

Red_Feather wrote: »

Does anyone use scalding rune. Either the tooltip is broken or it looks like garbage to me.

It's completely worthless, even with it's buffs on the PTS. Another reason I'm suggesting a further tweak to it so that it will have it's purpose in pve at least. There may be some uses as-is with one of the new set bonuses which add dps per dot you use, but even that is debatable because there exist better dot options to max it out.

Okay. I look at the tooltip and think someone forgot to type a '1' in a spreadsheet? It takes 2 seconds to arm and does less damage than everything else in the game. I actually can't think of a less damaging skill that does 'just damage' like scalding rune.

ZOS_JesC

Greetings, we've removed a few comments that were baiting in nature and nonconstructive. This is a friendly reminder to remain civil when discussing topics you disagree on. Thank you for your understanding.

berzerkdethb14_ESO1

Red_Feather wrote: »

berzerkdethb14_ESO1 wrote: »

Red_Feather wrote: »

Does anyone use scalding rune. Either the tooltip is broken or it looks like garbage to me.

It's completely worthless, even with it's buffs on the PTS. Another reason I'm suggesting a further tweak to it so that it will have it's purpose in pve at least. There may be some uses as-is with one of the new set bonuses which add dps per dot you use, but even that is debatable because there exist better dot options to max it out.

Okay. I look at the tooltip and think someone forgot to type a '1' in a spreadsheet? It takes 2 seconds to arm and does less damage than everything else in the game. I actually can't think of a less damaging skill that does 'just damage' like scalding rune.

it is actually fairly useful on the PTS apparently. It would still be nice for minor force to be added to it so we wouldn't have such a crowded bar with a stamina ability or that silly accelerate ability. More room for a defensive ability.

berzerkdethb14_ESO1

I see every magicka build is using trap beast in addition to rune on PTS. it would help make the builds less busy and give us the ability to take a defensive ability if you just add minor force to the rune.

Stam dps builds are still able to take a defensive, magicka can't in many cases due to bar limitations.


Please consider this change, it wouldn't make magicka OP, and it would make it far more enjoyable to play.

Nyladreas

THIS SHOULD GET ATTENTION LIKE RIGHT NOW!!!! @ZOS_GinaBruno

Altyrann

Or have trap scale with highest stat like soul trap now does?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

How about giving channeled acceleration a damage over time?

blnchk

Altyrann wrote: »

Or have trap scale with highest stat like soul trap now does?

Trap has such a horrendous animation, though.