Make Blessing of Protection (Combat Prayer) a HoT

troomar

Nightingale707 wrote: »

In that case I would politely ask you to stop talking about healing.

Reason? I already said I've been healing for 3 years so far. I believe the change would make healing more interesting.

Royaji

Can people who only heal 4 mans where healers are not even needed stop promoting changes which absolutely wreck 12 man healing? Honestly, unless you have healed vCR+3 execute and vHoF HM execute (or even just vAA HM execute if we were to drop that low) you have no business commeting on AoE healing strength.

Iskiab

troomar wrote: »

Nightingale707 wrote: »

In that case I would politely ask you to stop talking about healing.

Reason? I already said I've been healing for 3 years so far. I believe the change would make healing more interesting.

I think you may be right, it’s hard to tell without doing a trial on PTS.

Royaji wrote: »

troomar wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

troomar wrote: »

Why a DK healer should use his class burst heal when Combat Prayer is here? Why a NB healer should do it?

Name the AoE burst heal for either one of those classes.

Exactly, there is none. But why should I use a single target burst when there is an aoe burst that is simply stronger?

The fact that people are unironically considering using 10 DDs and just stacking 10 vigors is a problem already.

This won’t work, vigor has stacking limits.

idk

troomar wrote: »

Nightingale707 wrote: »

In that case I would politely ask you to stop talking about healing.

Reason? I already said I've been healing for 3 years so far. I believe the change would make healing more interesting.

You really have not defended this idea very well. You certainly have not justified removing the only burst heal available from the weapon line which is a major change and would have an affect on healing the more challenging content.

How can you see this affecting your healing in vMoL HM, vHoF HM, vAS +2, vCR +3 and vSS HM?

How do you see this affecting a DKs ability to heal since you are removing the only burst heal they have . Do you even care how it affects other classes ability to heal? It does not seem so.

Royaji

Iskiab wrote: »

troomar wrote: »

Nightingale707 wrote: »

In that case I would politely ask you to stop talking about healing.

Reason? I already said I've been healing for 3 years so far. I believe the change would make healing more interesting.

I think you may be right, it’s hard to tell without doing a trial on PTS.

Royaji wrote: »

troomar wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

troomar wrote: »

Why a DK healer should use his class burst heal when Combat Prayer is here? Why a NB healer should do it?

Name the AoE burst heal for either one of those classes.

Exactly, there is none. But why should I use a single target burst when there is an aoe burst that is simply stronger?

The fact that people are unironically considering using 10 DDs and just stacking 10 vigors is a problem already.

This won’t work, vigor has stacking limits.

Will still be better than a healer spamming his single target heal, saving one guy and getting a couple of dead DDs every time a mechanic hits.

idk

idk wrote: »

troomar wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

No. It would take away the only universal AoE burst heal.

Pretty much this.. rStaff already had a HoT with HS. Why have another ground placed HoT with the same weapon. Seems rather duplicative and a waste of a skill on the weapon.

Healing Springs are ground based HoT, Combat Prayer is a target heal (and it would be a target HoT), so your argument is flawed.

We also have targeted based heals with regen. Your argument is not only flawed but also ill conceived. The rStaff is full of HoTs and really only has one solid heal that you want to remove. Your idea does not hold up to logic.

and I am going to put this back out here again.

troomar

Iskiab wrote: »

I’m not sure, but I think the new springs will be enough for healing... as long as no one moves.

We still haven't had time to test it on PTS, but Healing Springs are not the only HoT in the game. There is even a new HoT skill in Fighter's guild (I know it's a stamina base skill, but it scales fine with Ritual / Powered / Major Mending). You also have other HoTs. You have Blood altar, you have healing sets, shielding sets. Your DPS can add more health and resistances. All these things are stacking together and can create a huge HoT effect for everyone.

troomar

idk wrote: »

How can you see this affecting your healing in vMoL HM, vHoF HM, vAS +2, vCR +3 and vSS HM?

You can cast 1 spell on GCD. Let's say you are able to steadily output 10k with Combat Prayer. If you can create HoTs with 10k heal per second then you successfully replaced your burst heal.

Now,
vMoL HM - at the beginning people are stacked together, later you have 4 people outside your stack (runners). Execute has the same problem - you can't have ppl stacked together + you have ppl on platforms. Except the first 2 platforms I don't see much usage for Combat prayer even now. You can use it on you non runners DPS, but you can also create enough HoTs for them.
vHoF HM execute - people don't move so you should be able to replace Combat Prayer for enough HoTs (in a rotation).
vAS +2 - Is Combat Prayer even a thing in this trial? Hardly.
vCR +3 - Even now you have such a healing debuff you need to use shields to survive.
vSS HM - Progressing right now, so I can't comment on it.

idk

I find it very interesting how you ignored the question about how this would affect other classes, specifically the DK who lacks a burst heal for the group. You edited out most of my comment to be able to ignore that.

As I said, this idea is ill conceived and Zos will not give it a second thought.

You have also chosen to ignore you are removing the only sold heal in the rStaff and making it all HoTs which makes zero sense in a game with such heavy hits.

How you pick and choose what you respond to and disregard the major issues brought up show how flawed your idea is. It seems to come from a very narrow perspective and disregards good game design.

ZOS_Ragnar

We have removed some comments from this thread that were overly combative and not adding value to the discussion. Please keep future comments civil and constructive.

troomar

idk wrote: »

I find it very interesting how you ignored the question about how this would affect other classes, specifically the DK who lacks a burst heal for the group. You edited out most of my comment to be able to ignore that.

Well, I found it obvious so I answered only the parts that didn't seem so.

But anyway, lets try:
DK has a class burst heal. You would know that if you ever played DK healer (and if it's not obvious, yes I did). Another HINT - DK has 2 class burst heal skills. I wonder if you can find them.
I don't really want to go over every class, you can figure it out for yourself, but every class has a single target burst heal, while warden (and templar ofc) have aoe burst heal (a weak one, but whatever)

idk wrote: »

As I said, this idea is ill conceived and Zos will not give it a second thought.

While I have little trust in class reps and I don't believe my proposal would be a thing in this update, never say never.

idk wrote: »

You have also chosen to ignore you are removing the only sold heal in the rStaff and making it all HoTs which makes zero sense in a game with such heavy hits.

The more HoTs, the easier to replace aoe burst. Why there *must* be a burst heal in rStaff line?

idk wrote: »

How you pick and choose what you respond to and disregard the major issues brought up show how flawed your idea is. It seems to come from a very narrow perspective and disregards good game design.

The fact that you disagree with me doesn't make my proposal invalid. It might not be the best proposal ever, but I still have a right to make it.

SeaUnicorn

How about no. It does not outperform Templar's clap heal in terms of healing power. It's actually only half as strong.
We lost burst heal on springs, taking last option for AOE burst from every class other than Templar is a bad idea. You have plenty hots available between health steal on altar or woss name last skill in resto tree, you have springs, you have class specific HOTs. You have like 3 AOE burst heals, 2 of them are class specific.

idk

troomar wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I find it very interesting how you ignored the question about how this would affect other classes, specifically the DK who lacks a burst heal for the group. You edited out most of my comment to be able to ignore that.

Well, I found it obvious so I answered only the parts that didn't seem so.

But anyway, lets try:
DK has a class burst heal. You would know that if you ever played DK healer (and if it's not obvious, yes I did). Another HINT - DK has 2 class burst heal skills. I wonder if you can find them.

I have two DKs, thank you, and as such I am not aware DK s have nothing that will provide a burst heal for a group.

As such I am calling you out and suggesting you are being coy for a reason and it is because you are saying DKs hav ea class burst heal but not saying they have a burst heal that will heal the group.

Burning embers heals only the caster.
Flame leash only heals caster.
Cauterize is a HoT
Cinder Storm is a HoT.
Obsidian Shield and it's morphs are a shield, not a heal and it is pretty small.

I may have missed something but not a burst heal for the group., let alone two. I also focused on DKs for a reason and you have still failed to answer the question. You are clearly dodging it because you know I am correct.

As for your comment about class reps. I never mentioned them and guess you are bringing them up as a distraction.

Your comment that the more HoTs the easier it is to replace burst heals is also flawed as it shows what I suspected from the beginning that you want to be a HoT healer and make this game about HoT healing without regard for everyone else and the game as a whole. Your suggestion is selfish, as I have already indicated.

What is funny is HoT healing I have played in other games still had a burst heal. I am sure there has been a HoT healing class in another game that did not have burst but it was probably designed to over heal.

I neve said your idea was invalid because I disagree with you. That would be absurd. I am basing my opinion that your idea is critically flawed and imprudent for the reasons the real reasons I have posted and again, the idea will go now where for these reasons, and probably more.

Edit: and no offense, and please do not take it personally as it is great to think of ideas and share them. However, most of our ideas come from a limited view point and sometimes experience and as such end up not being a very solid idea for the game.

troomar

idk wrote: »

troomar wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I find it very interesting how you ignored the question about how this would affect other classes, specifically the DK who lacks a burst heal for the group. You edited out most of my comment to be able to ignore that.

Well, I found it obvious so I answered only the parts that didn't seem so.

But anyway, lets try:
DK has a class burst heal. You would know that if you ever played DK healer (and if it's not obvious, yes I did). Another HINT - DK has 2 class burst heal skills. I wonder if you can find them.

I have two DKs, thank you, and as such I am not aware DK s have nothing that will provide a burst heal for a group.

As such I am calling you out and suggesting you are being coy for a reason and it is because you are saying DKs hav ea class burst heal but not saying they have a burst heal that will heal the group.

Burning embers heals only the caster.
Flame leash only heals caster.
Cauterize is a HoT
Cinder Storm is a HoT.
Obsidian Shield and it's morphs are a shield, not a heal and it is pretty small.

I may have missed something but not a burst heal for the group., let alone two. I also focused on DKs for a reason and you have still failed to answer the question. You are clearly dodging it because you know I am correct.

As for your comment about class reps. I never mentioned them and guess you are bringing them up as a distraction.

Your comment that the more HoTs the easier it is to replace burst heals is also flawed as it shows what I suspected from the beginning that you want to be a HoT healer and make this game about HoT healing without regard for everyone else and the game as a whole. Your suggestion is selfish, as I have already indicated.

What is funny is HoT healing I have played in other games still had a burst heal. I am sure there has been a HoT healing class in another game that did not have burst but it was probably designed to over heal.

I neve said your idea was invalid because I disagree with you. That would be absurd. I am basing my opinion that your idea is critically flawed and imprudent for the reasons the real reasons I have posted and again, the idea will go now where for these reasons, and probably more.

Edit: and no offense, and please do not take it personally as it is great to think of ideas and share them. However, most of our ideas come from a limited view point and sometimes experience and as such end up not being a very solid idea for the game.

1) Cauterize is not a HoT. It's a burst heal with 2 delayed burst heals after the initial first. It fires immediately when it's casted. Cast it twice and you (or a group member of yours) get 2 heals. It *is* a burst heal.
2) Stone Giant is the second one. And a pretty strong one.

[Edit to remove bait]

idk

troomar wrote: »

idk wrote: »

troomar wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I find it very interesting how you ignored the question about how this would affect other classes, specifically the DK who lacks a burst heal for the group. You edited out most of my comment to be able to ignore that.

Well, I found it obvious so I answered only the parts that didn't seem so.

But anyway, lets try:
DK has a class burst heal. You would know that if you ever played DK healer (and if it's not obvious, yes I did). Another HINT - DK has 2 class burst heal skills. I wonder if you can find them.

I have two DKs, thank you, and as such I am not aware DK s have nothing that will provide a burst heal for a group.

As such I am calling you out and suggesting you are being coy for a reason and it is because you are saying DKs hav ea class burst heal but not saying they have a burst heal that will heal the group.

Burning embers heals only the caster.
Flame leash only heals caster.
Cauterize is a HoT
Cinder Storm is a HoT.
Obsidian Shield and it's morphs are a shield, not a heal and it is pretty small.

I may have missed something but not a burst heal for the group., let alone two. I also focused on DKs for a reason and you have still failed to answer the question. You are clearly dodging it because you know I am correct.

As for your comment about class reps. I never mentioned them and guess you are bringing them up as a distraction.

Your comment that the more HoTs the easier it is to replace burst heals is also flawed as it shows what I suspected from the beginning that you want to be a HoT healer and make this game about HoT healing without regard for everyone else and the game as a whole. Your suggestion is selfish, as I have already indicated.

What is funny is HoT healing I have played in other games still had a burst heal. I am sure there has been a HoT healing class in another game that did not have burst but it was probably designed to over heal.

I neve said your idea was invalid because I disagree with you. That would be absurd. I am basing my opinion that your idea is critically flawed and imprudent for the reasons the real reasons I have posted and again, the idea will go now where for these reasons, and probably more.

Edit: and no offense, and please do not take it personally as it is great to think of ideas and share them. However, most of our ideas come from a limited view point and sometimes experience and as such end up not being a very solid idea for the game.

1) Cauterize is not a HoT. It's a burst heal with 2 delayed burst heals after the initial first. It fires immediately when it's casted. Cast it twice and you (or a group member of yours) get 2 heals. It *is* a burst heal.
2) Stone Giant is the second one. And a pretty strong one.

I don't know what more I can say. You repeatedly attack me that I'm avoiding some answer, but I don't know what you want to hear. You also presume I mentioned class reps and other things as a distraction. I don't know man, I'm just trying to replay to your questions / accusations / attacks etc.

I think there is nothing more to discuss with you, I said everything I wanted and I think you can find answers to all your questions in my previous replays.

Cauterize has multiple ticks. Heals every 5 seconds over 15 seconds. Not exactly the definition of a burst heal.

Stone Giant does not heal (on live). You are thinking of Obsidian Shard that will heal caster or one ally near the enemy.

So there is one heal burst heal a DK has that will heal one person. Hardly a replacement for CP.

[Edit to remove bait]

troomar

idk wrote: »

Cauterize has multiple ticks. Heals every 5 seconds over 15 seconds. Not exactly the definition of a burst heal.

Cauterise is a burst heal and it behave as one. Its uniqueness is in the additional "ticks", but it doesn't change the fact that it is a burst heal.

idk wrote: »

Stone Giant does not heal (on live). You are thinking of Obsidian Shard that will heal caster or one ally near the enemy.

You're right, they swapped the effect in some update in the past. It used to be Stone Giant. But again, it is a burst heal. It heals you or your ally. It behave in the same manner as Matriarch burst heal, or a Breath of Life heal. Would you say Breath of Life isn't a burst heal? It has the same description and it behaves in the same way.

idk wrote: »

So there is one heal burst heal a DK has that will heal one person. Hardly a replacement for CP.

I never said single target burst heals should replace aoe burst heal. My proposal was to nerf the aoe burst heal to have a reason to slot and use single target burst heal.

DKs have two burst heals in their class kit. How strong and useful is a different thing.

[Edit to remove bait]

Pr0Skygon

For a skill that is mostly used for its buff, I think making into a HOT would be a good idea, if implemented well enough.

jbjondeaueb17_ESO

gepe87 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Combat Prayer sucks as a heal, what are you talking about, OP?

It's an awesome skill on 4man content, if healer has DDs have good positioning.

Corrected that for you, it's more often DDs running like chicken, going behind the healer, not staying together, ..., even with only 2 of them, which makes the skill not so awesome sometimes.

idk

1. Wow., all this time I had thought heals that granted multiple ticks over time were HoTs.

burst heal gives it's all up front. it would be interesting to hear how this is a burst heal.

2. You are wrong again. Obsidian shard heals one target. Both the Sorc matriarch and Templar BoL heal two targets. Essentially twice as many targets.

However, even at that it points out how your idea would severely harm a DK healer as it would take away the only solid AoE heal a DK can provide.

[Edit to remove bait]

kaithuzar

troomar wrote: »

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

Are you even a Healer? Good gosh!

I was healing vMoL (and other easier trials) with my sorc in time when sorcerer were being kicked from dungeons because "hurr durr only templars can heal".

On hard mode?

DarkGottbeard

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

We have removed some comments from this thread that were overly combative and not adding value to the discussion. Please keep future comments civil and constructive.

Is there any way we can get a different letter for forum moderators? Like maybe M for mod. Z should be reserved for comments from ZoS about the game.

is there any way we can get a link to the comment by pushing the Z (or M) in the title?

I only say this because over the many years of perusing these forums I always get a little excited when I see "Z" in front of the title. Its as if a silent god has awoken and I must hunt down the sacred text. After a few minutes of wading through pages and pages of posts looking for the official ZoS post I finally find what was said. And its a nanny post basically saying "guys stop being mean its against the rules."

I know mods have an important and thankless job so let me say THANK YOU!
But at the same time i feel like you are tricking people often by having the same official Z on a thread that a developer has. And finding an actual dev comment in a thread is too cumbersome.

Royaji

DarkGottbeard wrote: »

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

We have removed some comments from this thread that were overly combative and not adding value to the discussion. Please keep future comments civil and constructive.

Is there any way we can get a different letter for forum moderators? Like maybe M for mod. Z should be reserved for comments from ZoS about the game.

is there any way we can get a link to the comment by pushing the Z (or M) in the title?

I only say this because over the many years of perusing these forums I always get a little excited when I see "Z" in front of the title. Its as if a silent god has awoken and I must hunt down the sacred text. After a few minutes of wading through pages and pages of posts looking for the official ZoS post I finally find what was said. And its a nanny post basically saying "guys stop being mean its against the rules."

I know mods have an important and thankless job so let me say THANK YOU!
But at the same time i feel like you are tricking people often by having the same official Z on a thread that a developer has. And finding an actual dev comment in a thread is too cumbersome.

You can check dev tracker every now and then to see only dev and community managers comments. Although I have to say it gets a bit depressing how rarely you see anything new there.

troomar

idk wrote: »

stuff

That old chestnut again?

Tsar_Gekkou

Lol, imagine people saying that Combat Prayer is overperforming. Are we just gonna gut all healing to where things like vHoF HM are impossible since springs are having their healing tooltip nerfed by 44% as well? Healing is suposed to be just as much proactive as it is reactive. Making everything proactive with DoTs to preempt incoming damage with nothing substantial to bring people up from almost dead isn't good for high-damage scenarios like vet trials where you need to burst people back up. Seeing as how most people are terrible at anything past vet crags, i'm pretty sure healing isn't overpowered, or else we'd have everyone running around with vAS+2 clears.

idk

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

Lol, imagine people saying that Combat Prayer is overperforming. Are we just gonna gut all healing to where things like vHoF HM are impossible since springs are having their healing tooltip nerfed by 44% as well? Healing is suposed to be just as much proactive as it is reactive. Making everything proactive with DoTs to preempt incoming damage with nothing substantial to bring people up from almost dead isn't good for high-damage scenarios like vet trials where you need to burst people back up. Seeing as how most people are terrible at anything past vet crags, i'm pretty sure healing isn't overpowered, or else we'd have everyone running around with vAS+2 clears.

I think this is just a case of someone wanting more HoTs to heal with and did not consider how it affected the rest of the game as I have pointed out.