As a healer main, how do you feel when a dps vigors or matriarchs?

TheNightflame

Personally, it's disheartening playing a healer, managing fine, and seeing dps use vigor close to full, or seeing that sorc pop a matriarch a good 3 seconds after they've already been bursted back full. I like being trusted on my healer. With U23, there will be even more reason for dps to play defensively (even out of necessity sometimes), no doubt increasing the feelings of redundancy that come with the roll. Although i'm sure many healers have already started having their own existential crisis from reading this patch and playing it on pts, I'm curious to hear what healers feel about these defensive skills being used excessively on live.

darkblue5

It disheartens me and I'd rather they didn't

I'm for overall nerfs including dps self healing so... yes pls nerf.

Razorback174

What a pug does doesn't hurt me

While it can be disheartening, if they can pull the numbers for an easy clear, I can live with it. Now if you get a DPS that walks in with a resto staff and is using those heals, we're going to have issues.

It makes sense to have some sort of self heal on your bar. Should it make healers redundant? Absolutely not. Should it be enough to let you survive to actually get healed by a healer? Yes.

It's a fine line of balance between the two. Unfortunately, it looks like ZoS decided to buff the self-heals, so healers are going to be nothing more than a liability from here on in. Not like they weren't already with the one-shot mechanics in every piece of content now. Can't heal an instakill, so why bother bringing a healer?

SeaUnicorn

They should be doing that, because it's a good practice in the raid with complex mechs, for example vCR. While save you some time by self healing make yourself useful and cast combat prayer, orbs, off-balance, minor vulnerability, ele drain, crusher proc.
Looks like you didn't do much of endgame pve, otherwise you wouldn't see this as an issue.

darkblue5

It disheartens me and I'd rather they didn't

slofwnd wrote: »

They should be doing that, because it's a good practice in the raid with complex mechs, for example vCR. While save you some time by self healing make yourself useful and cast combat prayer, orbs, off-balance, minor vulnerability, ele drain, crusher proc.
Looks like you didn't do much of endgame pve, otherwise you wouldn't see this as an issue.

The great and powerful Omni-Orb that vastly changes the healer rotations for U23. You have a lot of dead space in the rotation as compared with live.

Heals usually overhealing and even dps overhealing by ridiculous numbers makes it hard to create reasonable content. Even tanks backbaring a resto can heal way too well.

Content designed around the HPS you can (relatively) easily reach on live (vHoF and later) may need to be looked at. That doesn't prevent this from ultimately being a good change for creating future content.


All that said I think PTS Springs going live would be bad for healer diversity. Meanwhile dps shouldn't be able to purely rely on healers nor sustain healing without healers. Feel like self heals are the latter in too much content. Not sure all content can be made to follow that without adding random ambient damage in lots of content for no visible reason.

TheNightflame

It disheartens me and I'd rather they didn't

slofwnd wrote: »

They should be doing that, because it's a good practice in the raid with complex mechs, for example vCR. While save you some time by self healing make yourself useful and cast combat prayer, orbs, off-balance, minor vulnerability, ele drain, crusher proc.
Looks like you didn't do much of endgame pve, otherwise you wouldn't see this as an issue.

i qualify my whole thing with making this about them using it excessively, a.k.a. when it's not needed. If a mechanic calls for it, or both healers are dead, or anything else where dps should support themselves, I support that.

Please L2reading comprehension

edit: and no where do i imply not keeping buffs up? what makes a good healer is doing both, keeping people alive AND buffing. endgame healing isn't "heal yourself so i can keep doing my buff roto"

Evito

I welcome it.

I don’t use the dungeon finder often, and only for nondlc vets, but when I do I sign healer and just play dps with ele drain and heal with the matriarch.

TheNightflame

It disheartens me and I'd rather they didn't

Evito wrote: »

I welcome it.

I don’t use the dungeon finder often, and only for nondlc vets, but when I do I sign healer and just play dps with ele drain and heal with the matriarch.

I don't think that's applicaple because this is about the healer role, and not playing a self sustainung dps with a group off heal (which is what dps and the once existant healer role will become jext patch)

WuffyCerulei

I don’t think the healers I run with care. In trials, a lot of damage is going out, and the tanks often need the healing. Which leaves the dps vulnerable at times. It happens, and as a dps, I have to have some survivabiliry. Can’t soley rely on the healers to carry my sorry butt.

GeorgeBlack

Is it snowing?
I see a flake

TheNightflame

It disheartens me and I'd rather they didn't

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Is it snowing?
I see a flake

oh my gosh where! i love snow

BahometZ

I don't care what they do

Don't care at all. It's muscle memory for a lot of people.

Beardimus

Honestly, who cares what they do? As long as we are clearing the content (i.e. Their DPS isn't so bad as they aren't doing their job)

Worse is a BS tank or healer trying to do side damage and failing at their primary task. Again that's not because my ego is dented as a DD, its purely about the mission. It's a team game.
This is legit the first time I've heard a healer complain DD are making their job too easy lol.

Vermethys

BahometZ wrote: »

It's muscle memory for a lot of people.

I'm a tank main, and a DPS second -- I can definitely confirm this. Vigor is almost always slotted (on my DDs) since I pug frequently for the daily pledges, and like a good amount of the tanks I get grouped with, random healers are not guaranteed to be reliable. Hours upon hours of farming vMA and playing PvP also contribute to this, I believe. So, it's a reflex.

It's a different story when doing vet trials with a premade group though; I usually trust my healers enough to replace Vigor with something useful like Mirage, Deadly Cloak, or another FG ability for the passive WD increase.

SaintSubwayy

other

if a high DMG phase is incoming, I also use Vigor on my StamDK, and there is a simple reason for it.

1. Vigors can stack from multiple sources, so they can provide a very strong counter to something like vCR Banefull Mark in execute.
2. Its much more efficient if noone dies, than having the chance of 1 or more DDs dying and rezzing them. you will loose way more DPS when rezzing, than you would loose when a few ppl cast vigor.
3. Its not something we do to *** the healers off, but if we see ppl dropping low more often than normal it coul dmean that the servers are laggy, or maybe healer is desynced (placing heals were he sees the group, yet the group is at another location)

ruff

I don't care what they do

As a solo player who understands survivability challenge in perils of lags and pugs - I'm really happy for them as I hate to res.

Seraphayel

I don't care what they do

Why the hell should I be bothered by Tanks/DPS trying to stay alive on their own?

It’s way better than DPS camping in red circles and expecting me to constantly heal them so they don’t have to move one inch.

Browiseth

other

my only healer is a stam warden who heavily revolves around maintaining echoing vigor as her main heals. everything else is some kind of buff or a HoT so when someone heals themselves it really doesn't feel like a waste since i was keeping the HoTs up anyway.

mocap

I don't care what they do

my healer have two presets, dd (20-25k dps) and full healer (20-25k+ hps 4m group without Springs). Usually i run dd preset for base game dungeons, rarely switching to full healer on last boss and almost always in DLC.

Absolutely pointless to play as full healer in base dungeons, so switch to DD instead (use alphagear2 or dressing room addons). In most DLC too.

Currently healers are for trials, not dungeons. With new update it will be even worse.

MartiniDaniels

other

There is also another very common situation, when you heal yourself after damage spike and healer's prayer, bol, whatever arrives couple seconds after you already healed yourself to full HP. So it's all about trust, in organized group with voice connection you often can drop heal all together, but if you are running with half group of pugs and some kind of new healer you don't know, it's better to lose some % of dps then die.

Runefang

What a pug does doesn't hurt me

When I'm grinding undaunted levels, which is the only time I pug dungeons, then I cast vigor often because I usually engage enemies first and get a lot of aggro.

Hotdog_23

other

If that can self heal that just gives me more time to DPS in dungeons. Honestly a healer should be spending at least half of their time doing dps if not most of their time.

Daedric_NB_187

other

Waffles are delicious.

humpalicous

I don't care what they do

Don't care, if it helps them survive more and still pull high numbers then all the better. When I notice that a certain player (often DD's) can survive and play well while using their own self heals I tend to do a few things:

1. Focus my healing on those in need, like tank through rough boss fights or the other DD who might not have a single healing ability.
2. Re-tool my rotation so that it incorporates more damage components. For example, if I'm on my Templar healer then I would slot/use Reflective Light or in the upcoming patch, Soul Trap, in order to deal more damage for faster clears. There is a enough healing in Orbs, Cleansing Ritual, Healing Springs, Combat Prayer and BoL already.
3. I might also try to incorporate more buffs that may be left out due to healing. This doesn't happen very often but in some cases it might.

So no, it does not dishearten me. There are worse things in this game than DD's being able to survive and provide their own heals in group content.

Saril_Durzam

What a pug does doesn't hurt me

ESO is made so healers are not needed except on trials. Every role can selhealf and are used to self heal.

To be honest, the healing duty was funnier for me in Lotro or wow, but healers role is not just heal: you have to buff, debuff and DPS aswell. You´re not a full healer except in mentioned trials. You play a group support hybrid and have to live with it.

D0PAMINE

@TheNightflame I have never been confronted by a Healer for using Vigor/BoL/Flappy/Coag or GDB etc. In dungeons with large arenas to fight in and multiple things happening, you need self heals just in case. In my group, if the healer goes down to a one shot, lag, or whatever, I can burst heal the group until we get them back up. Our healer is very much needed, and we all work well together.

Ysbriel

other

I feel great that we were given tools to assemble dungeon runs beyond the trinity even though the queue is setup to work that way.

1) Organized runs variety
2) Pug runs last minute organization in dungeon
3) backing up if the healer still isn’t quite on point yet or died because a mistake.

Elwendryll

And how do you feel about a stam DD dropping an healing negate on your group during the Lokke HM DoT? Because that's what I have been doing lately. I'm starting to look for a replacement for Dawnbreaker next patch so I test things .

In trials, if my health is low and I'm behind the healer, I heal myself If I can. They already have a whole group to manage, better be safe than sorry, right?

John_Falstaff

I'm not responding to poll since I don't heal, but sometimes Vigors are honest mistakes. Not once I have remarked in voice chat that - just for information, that Vigor wasn't meant as a disrespect to healer, I've just mashed a button while being on the wrong bar. ^^

That said, in dungeons, Vigor is useful, I advocate all DDs to slot some self-protection. In trials, I would drop Vigor from my bar, in dungeons, I don't feel comfortable without it, and it shouldn't dishearten healers; after all, if I use it, then mostly to compensate for my own screw-up. ^^

Austinseph1

I mean as a dps I die less when I trust myself to heal and not die. I always slot a trusty self heal because you never know what kind of healer you will get in group finder.

Rake

why would I care if they use selfheals from time to time.