Add DPS checks into trials

Libonotus

Like FFXIV did so everyone learns how to properly play their class instead of having the same old dodge red circles mechanics.

BennyButton

There are DPS checks in the trials lol

Cadbury

FFXIV has well-crafted and intricate dungeons that engage the entire party and require the utmost attention from the tank, healer, and DPS alike. A DPS check makes sense in that game.

ESO? Any DPS check will just frustrate and anger our mostly casual audience. I mean, look how many people gnashed their teeth at the mere suggestion of adding an Inspect Player option.

A DPS check (or even something like FFXIV's Hall of the Novice) would be a nice addition to the game. But I don't think its players are ready for it.

ArchMikem

People got upset about Inspect Player cause they dont want to be insta kicked for not wearing the sets the Crown wants. Its basically discrimination. But dont dps checks, as in burn mechanics already exist? Burn the target or it enrages.

Cadbury

ArchMikem wrote: »

People got upset about Inspect Player cause they dont want to be insta kicked for not wearing the sets the Crown wants. Its basically discrimination. But dont dps checks, as in burn mechanics already exist? Burn the target or it enrages.

FFXIV has DPS checks for almost every dungeon ingame, whereas ESO has far fewer. I believe this is what the OP was referring to. I could be wrong, though.

Libonotus

Cadbury wrote: »

FFXIV has well-crafted and intricate dungeons that engage the entire party and require the utmost attention from the tank, healer, and DPS alike. A DPS check makes sense in that game.

ESO? Any DPS check will just frustrate and anger our mostly casual audience. I mean, look how many people gnashed their teeth at the mere suggestion of adding an Inspect Player option.

A DPS check (or even something like FFXIV's Hall of the Novice) would be a nice addition to the game. But I don't think its players are ready for it.

The current gameplay of dodging red circles and healing through AoEs is getting tired and we need something to shake it up

zaria

Cadbury wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

People got upset about Inspect Player cause they dont want to be insta kicked for not wearing the sets the Crown wants. Its basically discrimination. But dont dps checks, as in burn mechanics already exist? Burn the target or it enrages.

FFXIV has DPS checks for almost every dungeon ingame, whereas ESO has far fewer. I believe this is what the OP was referring to. I could be wrong, though.

Add that ESO dps checks in dungeons tend to be an joke. BC2 has two Keeper Indril and the adds on last boss, first is an AoE check and yes people fails it in normal.
vAA and more so AA HM has an during execute, second last one is also one but DPS is so high now its not much of an issue.

ESO has DPS checks as in kill boss before much annoying mechanics.
if not you need to learn this mechanics

karekiz

How much would a 4 man Vet DLC DPS check be set at <Group total dps>
How much would a 4 man vet DLC HM dps check be set at?

Huyen

Inspect, gearscore and sich nearly destroyed the community of WoW. I rather see some better mechanics then everyntime the dps checks and oneshot attacks.

Agenericname

karekiz wrote: »

How much would a 4 man Vet DLC DPS check be set at <Group total dps>
How much would a 4 man vet DLC HM dps check be set at?

In the case of vet DLC HMs I believe they already exist to some extent. vFH HM and the shouts with a reduced number of pillars. It's not technically an enrage mechanic, but the results are the same.

BRF HM, you're on a timer as well before you run out of lava free real estate.

I'm unsure of the actual numbers though.

MJallday

I’d argue the dummy dps tests have done more to make this game poisonous than anything else - let’s not make it worse please

Qbiken

DPS checks are bad design and should not be encouraged

Jeremy

Libonotus wrote: »

Like FFXIV did so everyone learns how to properly play their class instead of having the same old dodge red circles mechanics.

Isn't that basically all Final Fantasy 14 is? Dodging red circles or red squares?

Jeremy

MJallday wrote: »

I’d argue the dummy dps tests have done more to make this game poisonous than anything else - let’s not make it worse please

Yeah I agree. These silly parses have done absolutely nothing positive for the MMO genre.

Runefang

Jeremy wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

I’d argue the dummy dps tests have done more to make this game poisonous than anything else - let’s not make it worse please

Yeah I agree. These silly parses have done absolutely nothing positive for the MMO genre.

If dummy parses didn't exist in ESO then people would find the a world boss or normal dungeon boss to go and fight and time how long it takes them to beat it solo. You think its the parses that's the problem, its more that some people want to push themselves to be good at a game and others don't.

Jeremy

Runefang wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

I’d argue the dummy dps tests have done more to make this game poisonous than anything else - let’s not make it worse please

Yeah I agree. These silly parses have done absolutely nothing positive for the MMO genre.

If dummy parses didn't exist in ESO then people would find the a world boss or normal dungeon boss to go and fight and time how long it takes them to beat it solo. You think its the parses that's the problem, its more that some people want to push themselves to be good at a game and others don't.

The problem with parses is people start obsessing over insignificant differences in the numbers. The goal becomes to be as "efficient" as possible - which in turns leads to this ridiculous idea of the "meta build".

So long as a build is effective - it's fine. It's not imperative that everyone have that extra 1k DPS on their build otherwise they are casual RPers who need to "git gud".

I'm old enough to remember what MMO's were like before the introduction of these DPS meters and they were better for it. If anything - the quality of players has diminished since their introduction because that is literally all many people care about now - is more DEEPS so they can top the charts and nothing else matters to them. It's been bad for the genre generally. Which is probably why MMO's have been dumbed down considerably to compensate.

MyKillv2.0

I think OP drastically over estimates the amount of people who play ESO to be "pro" dungeon/trials runners.

starkerealm

BennyButton wrote: »

There are DPS checks in the trials lol

There are DPS checks all over the place in ESO.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Libonotus wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

FFXIV has well-crafted and intricate dungeons that engage the entire party and require the utmost attention from the tank, healer, and DPS alike. A DPS check makes sense in that game.

ESO? Any DPS check will just frustrate and anger our mostly casual audience. I mean, look how many people gnashed their teeth at the mere suggestion of adding an Inspect Player option.

A DPS check (or even something like FFXIV's Hall of the Novice) would be a nice addition to the game. But I don't think its players are ready for it.

The current gameplay of dodging red circles and healing through AoEs is getting tired and we need something to shake it up

if you feel that way, you know it is all right to play other games right?

zaria

starkerealm wrote: »

BennyButton wrote: »

There are DPS checks in the trials lol

There are DPS checks all over the place in ESO.

Where? yes most stuff becomes much easier with high dps as you stay shorter time in mechanic so less chance to wipe.

Tsar_Gekkou

We already have some good dps checks in trials, especially the harder trials that give better stuff.
Varlariel
Zhaj'hassa
The Twins
Rakkhat
The Archcustodian
The Assembly General
St. Llothis and Felms
I assume Z'maja does as well

DaveMoeDee

Jeremy wrote: »

Libonotus wrote: »

Like FFXIV did so everyone learns how to properly play their class instead of having the same old dodge red circles mechanics.

Isn't that basically all Final Fantasy 14 is? Dodging red circles or red squares?

I was curious so I've watched a stream of people playing FFXIV twice over the past 2 months. Both time I was struck by how boring it looked. I saw a bunch of little figures and nothing moving, not even what they were attacking. Maybe it was fun to play, but is was horrible to watch.

Vlad9425

Don't see why we need this. 90% of us are just here to have fun and not worry too much about numbers. Obviously in vet hard modes you want a good group of Damage Dealers but most of those groups are already premade and are all aware of the numbers the group members are achieving.

OOJIMMY

Jeremy wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

I’d argue the dummy dps tests have done more to make this game poisonous than anything else - let’s not make it worse please

Yeah I agree. These silly parses have done absolutely nothing positive for the MMO genre.

If dummy parses didn't exist in ESO then people would find the a world boss or normal dungeon boss to go and fight and time how long it takes them to beat it solo. You think its the parses that's the problem, its more that some people want to push themselves to be good at a game and others don't.

The problem with parses is people start obsessing over insignificant differences in the numbers. The goal becomes to be as "efficient" as possible - which in turns leads to this ridiculous idea of the "meta build".

So long as a build is effective - it's fine. It's not imperative that everyone have that extra 1k DPS on their build otherwise they are casual RPers who need to "git gud".

I'm old enough to remember what MMO's were like before the introduction of these DPS meters and they were better for it. If anything - the quality of players has diminished since their introduction because that is literally all many people care about now - is more DEEPS so they can top the charts and nothing else matters to them. It's been bad for the genre generally. Which is probably why MMO's have been dumbed down considerably to compensate.

It Would still be a problem, back before parses when I played on Xbox, we recorded times to see how long it would take for you to kill blood spawn.

Runefang

Jeremy wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

I’d argue the dummy dps tests have done more to make this game poisonous than anything else - let’s not make it worse please

Yeah I agree. These silly parses have done absolutely nothing positive for the MMO genre.

If dummy parses didn't exist in ESO then people would find the a world boss or normal dungeon boss to go and fight and time how long it takes them to beat it solo. You think its the parses that's the problem, its more that some people want to push themselves to be good at a game and others don't.

The problem with parses is people start obsessing over insignificant differences in the numbers. The goal becomes to be as "efficient" as possible - which in turns leads to this ridiculous idea of the "meta build".

So long as a build is effective - it's fine. It's not imperative that everyone have that extra 1k DPS on their build otherwise they are casual RPers who need to "git gud".

I'm old enough to remember what MMO's were like before the introduction of these DPS meters and they were better for it. If anything - the quality of players has diminished since their introduction because that is literally all many people care about now - is more DEEPS so they can top the charts and nothing else matters to them. It's been bad for the genre generally. Which is probably why MMO's have been dumbed down considerably to compensate.

Nonsense, its just the natural evolution of MMO gaming. Think of the runners who first broke the 4 minute mile and compare how they trained vs how runners do it today. The early runners would seem like casuals in today's world, but they were cutting edge at the time. What the cutting edge MMO gamers did 10 years is nothing compared to the usual high end progression guilds.

MMO gamers have learnt a lot of techniques to improve how they play, parses, training runs, excel spreadsheets and so on.

Rylisin

Jeremy wrote: »

Isn't that basically all Final Fantasy 14 is? Dodging red circles or red squares?

Early-game fights are basically avoiding aoes and are dull (i wont lie about that), but as you get into the 50+ content it picks up and the new 70+ content at the moment.. it's nasty when mechanics aren't followed :') A lot of the end-game content has new mechanics introduced that everyone needs to follow and some fights like Titania and Innocence have ones that bleed into each other so you have to be paying attention to what the boss is doing and what's happening around you.

ESO combat from where i last left off is very stack, burn and with higher-level players its 3 dd's and a tank (barely). Some mechanics in the newer dungeons I've seen (last ones i played were Fang Lair and Scale Caller on Vet) which were fun? Hard to say with the 300+ ping, but when it was working and adds weren't invisible it was a good hoot.

I dont know about forcing something like this if they did introduce more mechanics into the normal modes though, as some people have mentioned that casual players would probably hate it. Anything that requires juggling new / overlapping mechanics, dps checks and that is probably best left for the Vet crowds, since they're the ones who would enjoy it the most and play it. A hall of the novice-like feature however, to teach people about their classes or roles would be an excellent idea. It could encourage more people to try out something new before jumping into a daily dungeon and help them understand their toolkit better, because tbh ESO does not explain class / role skills that great. I struggled immensely when i first started playing to understand anything because I couldn't find any solid explanation.

SirAndy

Just waiting for the day someone gets kicked from a pug group running normal Fungal Grotto I because they can't pull 100k on a raid dummy ...

MLGProPlayer

The game already has DPS checks, power creep has just made most of them irrelevant. Older trials can be beaten pretty easily with low DPS now, and the base game/older DLC dungeons can easily be soloed. Older content just needs to be adjusted. That, or power creep needs to be addressed and the newer content toned down.

Cadbury

SirAndy wrote: »

Just waiting for the day someone gets kicked from a pug group running normal Fungal Grotto I because they can't pull 100k on a raid dummy ...

Runefang

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The game already has DPS checks, power creep has just made most of them irrelevant. Older trials can be beaten pretty easily with low DPS now, and the base game/older DLC dungeons can easily be soloed. Older content just needs to be adjusted. That, or power creep needs to be addressed and the newer content toned down.

Or you just leave it alone because it's still hard for a fair chunk of the player base?

starkerealm

zaria wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

BennyButton wrote: »

There are DPS checks in the trials lol

There are DPS checks all over the place in ESO.

Where? yes most stuff becomes much easier with high dps as you stay shorter time in mechanic so less chance to wipe.

Well, since we're talking about trials, the example that comes to mind immediately is: Varlariel.

Though, seriously, it's not a short list. There are a ton of bosses who function as DPS checks. Now, those checks may not be as high, or prohibitive, as you want, but remember even Bloodspawn is DPS check with a hard wipe on fail.