2H Forward Momentum/Rally

Lyar09

I’m not too sure I understand why this skill now has two major buffs. Evasion is supposed to be unique to medium armor and some class skills. Even with the slight nerfs to heavy sets and snb, adding evasion will make 2H heavy builds even harder to kill. I suggest the removal of major evasion. What are y’alls suggestions/thoughts?

React

Yeah, evasion on this skill doesn't make sense. I totally understand the removal of the HOT is because of the MASSIVE buff to single target vigor - this makes sense and is a solid change. But to replace it with a major buff that is really strong in it's own right, and is also one that will now be double acquired by the majority of medium armor builds. Like you said, this is basically just a buff to heavy armor builds that were already hard to kill previously, and will now have an extra 25% aoe mitigation to boot.

They should have probably left forward momentum as a snare immunity, and changed rally to do something more healing oriented (they buffed the baseline heal to change it's functionality to a pure burst heal/buff ability) such as granting a short duration minor vitality or something of the sort.

Lyar09

Liam12548 wrote: »

Yeah, evasion on this skill doesn't make sense. I totally understand the removal of the HOT is because of the MASSIVE buff to single target vigor - this makes sense and is a solid change. But to replace it with a major buff that is really strong in it's own right, and is also one that will now be double acquired by the majority of medium armor builds. Like you said, this is basically just a buff to heavy armor builds that were already hard to kill previously, and will now have an extra 25% aoe mitigation to boot.

They should have probably left forward momentum as a snare immunity, and changed rally to do something more healing oriented (they buffed the baseline heal to change it's functionality to a pure burst heal/buff ability) such as granting a short duration minor vitality or something of the sort.

I’d like for FM to keep the small HoT and maybe give rally minor vitality/mending if it goes through the full duration. Maybe even 85-90% of the full duration?

Shinshadow

Meh... I'll rather have the heal. A trained monkey that knows how to PvP usually stays out of red circles.

susmitds

It should give something like Minor Endurance(stam regen) or Minor Fortitude(HP regen) instead.

Lyar09

susmitds wrote: »

It should give something like Minor Endurance(stam regen) or Minor Fortitude(HP regen) instead.

I don’t like minor endurance. You already get stupid high regen from battle rush. I like the fortitude idea tho

Strider__Roshin

I think Major savagery would be better honestly.

leepalmer95

Lyar09 wrote: »

I’m not too sure I understand why this skill now has two major buffs. Evasion is supposed to be unique to medium armor and some class skills. Even with the slight nerfs to heavy sets and snb, adding evasion will make 2H heavy builds even harder to kill. I suggest the removal of major evasion. What are y’alls suggestions/thoughts?

Zos have this new trend of making very strong and previously 'hard to get' buffs easy.

Like protection is a super strong buff and used to only be on templar nova, then they brought out pirate skele.

Trian94

Agreed and Signed. 2 major buffs is overkill but I have no clue as to what would be ok for both morphs to give apart from what they already do.

RouDeR

Better change it to minor evasion or minor force

Lord_Eomer

Liam12548 wrote: »

Yeah, evasion on this skill doesn't make sense. I totally understand the removal of the HOT is because of the MASSIVE buff to single target vigor - this makes sense and is a solid change. But to replace it with a major buff that is really strong in it's own right, and is also one that will now be double acquired by the majority of medium armor builds. Like you said, this is basically just a buff to heavy armor builds that were already hard to kill previously, and will now have an extra 25% aoe mitigation to boot.

They should have probably left forward momentum as a snare immunity, and changed rally to do something more healing oriented (they buffed the baseline heal to change it's functionality to a pure burst heal/buff ability) such as granting a short duration minor vitality or something of the sort.

Currently most stam builds are harder to kill because of Rally + Vigor..so definately it should not get anything related to Heals

xylena_lazarow

Major Evasion should be limited to Medium Armor, Nightblades, and those 5pc sets nobody uses. Putting Major Evasion on a skill that every Heavy Armor Stamina build already uses is absurd.

Strider__Roshin

via Imgflip Meme Generator

TheYKcid

Yeah, this change is makes major evasion way too accessible, especially to braindead heavy builds that are already tanky enough. Should've just left the HoT on the base skill and morphs, no one ever complained about it.

If you want major evasion, run medium. Risk vs. reward is the basis of balanced, interesting game design.

EDIT: typos

Lord_Eomer

TheYKcid wrote: »

Yeah, this change is makes major evasion way too accessible, especially to braindead heavy build that are already tanky enough. Should've just just the HoT on the base skill and morphs, no one ever complained about it.

If you want major evasion, run medium. Risk vs. reward is the basis of balanced, interesting game design.

They are making it available easily so can nerf next patch!

Wihuri

Shinshadow wrote: »

Meh... I'll rather have the heal. A trained monkey that knows how to PvP usually stays out of red circles.

Yes because dawnbreaker is a red circle. But yes I would prefer keeping the heal though

Baphomet

Giving pretty much all stam builds a 25% AoE damage reduction is just plain rediculous.

Major evasion should definately be replaced with a different buff.

ProzTh3Almighty

Substitutes:
Minor Endurance for the duration

Minor heroism for the first 5-10 secs

Minor vitality for the first 5-10 sec

Minor Protection for 5 sec after, if you let it run the full duration to make up for it being reset.

Minor Fortitude for 10 sec

Minor Expedition for 5 secs if it runs full duration so you can run away from dmg when u dont have a burst heal primed!

Nemesis7884

Liam12548 wrote: »

Yeah, evasion on this skill doesn't make sense. I totally understand the removal of the HOT is because of the MASSIVE buff to single target vigor - this makes sense and is a solid change. But to replace it with a major buff that is really strong in it's own right, and is also one that will now be double acquired by the majority of medium armor builds. Like you said, this is basically just a buff to heavy armor builds that were already hard to kill previously, and will now have an extra 25% aoe mitigation to boot.

They should have probably left forward momentum as a snare immunity, and changed rally to do something more healing oriented (they buffed the baseline heal to change it's functionality to a pure burst heal/buff ability) such as granting a short duration minor vitality or something of the sort.

no its not you shouldnt nerf rally which is also a pve skill and shouldnt buff vigor either - change is not needed

Sandman929

A buff that's consistent with the weapon line makes more sense. Major Savagery would be nice for 2h.

Stibbons

Tank meta will benefit the most.

Crixus8000

ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »

Substitutes:
Minor Endurance for the duration

Minor heroism for the first 5-10 secs

Minor vitality for the first 5-10 sec

Minor Protection for 5 sec after, if you let it run the full duration to make up for it being reset.

Minor Fortitude for 10 sec

Minor Expedition for 5 secs if it runs full duration so you can run away from dmg when u dont have a burst heal primed!

We lost a hot for the full duration, why should a replacemeant be only for 5-8 seconds ? That would be an annoying nerf.

cHIIMEERa

I like this, if everyone has major evasion maybe we will see a decrease in dawnbreakers, so boring that everyone runs around with it these days.

SodanTok

cHIIMEERa wrote: »

I like this, if everyone has major evasion maybe we will see a decrease in dawnbreakers, so boring that everyone runs around with it these days.

Oh we will. We will.... And you will wish everyone kept using it

HackTheMinotaur

I thought I was misreading the patch notes when I first saw this change. Definitely not necessary. It makes heavy armor builds who cannot run shuffle even tankier. Seems like major evasion is the new minor protection. Throw it on a bunch of skills, maybe even a few passives next.😎

I’d prefer minor endurance.

Durham

Yes please take major evasion off this skill. Heavy Armor + Nord + DK passives+ Major evasion + Minor protection is way to much ... These guys will be sporting 40k resists after procs, with huge resists now to AOE damage, plus the bleed nerf that these guys now will be mitgating.

I was excited to see the medium armor buff that was needed. However then I saw Rally get trashed with major evasion. I have ran across no one that likes this change or thinks its nessary. I can see getting rid of the HOT I have no issue with that but put something else on it.

ProzTh3Almighty

Crixus8000 wrote: »

ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »

Substitutes:
Minor Endurance for the duration

Minor heroism for the first 5-10 secs

Minor vitality for the first 5-10 sec

Minor Protection for 5 sec after, if you let it run the full duration to make up for it being reset.

Minor Fortitude for 10 sec

Minor Expedition for 5 secs if it runs full duration so you can run away from dmg when u dont have a burst heal primed!

We lost a hot for the full duration, why should a replacemeant be only for 5-8 seconds ? That would be an annoying nerf.

You need to take into consideration the strength of these minor buffs an stop trying to have your cake an eat it too. A minor buff with a strong effect and short duration would fit a niche but not be brain dead access to another powerful buff, theyre all over the place an id rather promote skillful use and thought processes than one click OP skills.
Rally is strong this patch, probably doesnt even need a minor buff to be honest an forward momentum will be used by health recovery stacking cheese builds so they honestly probably should just take away evasion an leave well enough alone.

Crixus8000

ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »

Substitutes:
Minor Endurance for the duration

Minor heroism for the first 5-10 secs

Minor vitality for the first 5-10 sec

Minor Protection for 5 sec after, if you let it run the full duration to make up for it being reset.

Minor Fortitude for 10 sec

Minor Expedition for 5 secs if it runs full duration so you can run away from dmg when u dont have a burst heal primed!

We lost a hot for the full duration, why should a replacemeant be only for 5-8 seconds ? That would be an annoying nerf.

You need to take into consideration the strength of these minor buffs an stop trying to have your cake an eat it too. A minor buff with a strong effect and short duration would fit a niche but not be brain dead access to another powerful buff, theyre all over the place an id rather promote skillful use and thought processes than one click OP skills.
Rally is strong this patch, probably doesnt even need a minor buff to be honest an forward momentum will be used by health recovery stacking cheese builds so they honestly probably should just take away evasion an leave well enough alone.

Well I was mainly speaking about the buffs that you said you would need to let it run the full duration to get. Players will be using forward to remove snares every few seconds anyway so even a 5 second buff will have 100% uptime. But a buff that requires you to let forward last 20 seconds before you get the effect would be 100% useless in pvp, no player would be snared in a spot for 20 seconds just to get 5 seconds of minor protection.

But if they are taking away the entire hot of the ability then I would rather it get somethign in return, major evasion is very strong but I would be fine with a change if it was actually a decent one.

ProzTh3Almighty

Thats a good point. Ill be honest I was thinking more from the perspective of Rally since Ive never used Forward Momentum.
For FM any of the solutions could apply the buff after the duration of snare immunity, Cast it once you get 4 sec of snare immunity and then the 5-10 sec minor buff (in the case of full duration run-out buffs) that will give you access to the buff. Recasting the ability removes any minor buffs earned an replaced them with the snare immunity so on an so forth. That way your not looking at 100% uptimes but thoughtful buff management. For rally run-out buffs you can recast without losing the buff because you waited 20 secs for it and it would be pointless to get a buff but only if you don't prime your burst heal.

"Do I want snare immunity right now or do I want minor protection?"
"Do I want minor protection in 3 seconds or do I want my heal right NOW!"

That kinda stuff makes me happy!

JusticeSouldier

Lyar09 wrote: »

I’m not too sure I understand why this skill now has two major buffs. Evasion is supposed to be unique to medium armor and some class skills. Even with the slight nerfs to heavy sets and snb, adding evasion will make 2H heavy builds even harder to kill. I suggest the removal of major evasion. What are y’alls suggestions/thoughts?

Absolutly agree, 2 Major buffs for one skill is too much. Very bad idea. And if their goal is to nerf heal from rally and add something usefull here - why not new buff - like some mitigation to direct damage. Or to single target direct damage. But not Major in any case. Maybe Minor one. idk, did u had thoughts about this @ZOS_Gilliam ?

Nemesis7884

i dont understand why removing the hot from rally in the first place

if u want to add something...why not minor courage....yeah 2on 1 is a bit much but minor cour has little effect and fits the theme.... i also like them using more of the underused or newer buffs