Destructive Reach (Lightning) and Elemental Ring (Lightning) - Same skill, same skilltree...

Excaltic

Congratulations ZOS, you just introduced a SIMILAR skill into the game... Within the same skill tree...

Destructive Reach (Lightning)
Range 28m
AoE Damage - Yes (Changed by ZOS)
DoT - NO
Stun - NO (Removed by ZOS...)

Elemental Ring (Lightning)
Range 28m
AoE Damage - Yes
DoT - NO
Stun - NO

Or... did ZOS just put it wrong in PTS notes and does Destructive Reach (Lightning) skill stun the target enemy in addition to the AoE damage?

Anyone?

LeHarrt91

I guess the only difference is one requires a target and the other doesnt.

Red_Feather

Gives people options since they have morphs and different elemental staffs.

Excaltic

Red_Feather wrote: »

Gives people options since they have morphs and different elemental staffs.

It gives people new options by removing previous present features, while the new "feature" is already present, on another skill within the same skilltree?

You're a real genius, or a troll?

Xvorg

I prefer they go back to old elemental ring.

Old elemental ring at least proc status effects besides adding an elemental DoT, current one makes no sense. It never made sense.

WrathOfInnos

I think that was a typo in the patch notes. Reach (28m range) does not have Splash damage, but does have a single target DoT. Clench (15m range) has splash damage, but no DoT. Unclear why Shock Clench lost the stun when it was stated that it “retains the unique functionality for each elemental staff type you choose”. I agree the Shock Clench should keep the Stun, and Clench could stay 28m if it’s losing the DoT.

The main differences between Clench and Ring now are:
- Targeting: Enemy vs Ground
- Effect from Arena Weapon: Clench gets more Direct Damage from Master Destro , Ring gets a DoT from Blackrose Destro.

universal_wrath

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I think that was a typo in the patch notes. Reach (28m range) does not have Splash damage, but does have a single target DoT. Clench (15m range) has splash damage, but no DoT. Unclear why Shock Clench lost the stun when it was stated that it “retains the unique functionality for each elemental staff type you choose”. I agree the Shock Clench should keep the Stun, and Clench could stay 28m if it’s losing the DoT.

The main differences between Clench and Ring now are:
- Targeting: Enemy vs Ground
- Effect from Arena Weapon: Clench gets more Direct Damage from Master Destro , Ring gets a DoT from Blackrose Destro.

Both direct dmg from dustructive reach with master destro and elementak ring wuth bkack rose are really bad. If you want to use master
Destro, might as well use fire stave for increase dng to single target since both lightneing and fire reach do not stun anymore. You could still use clench in both fire lightening as both stun.

wills43b14_ESO

@WrathOfInnos @Excaltic My guess is they've had problems fixing the stun telegraph for awhile and are just removing it. Previously in order to block the stun you had to block BEFORE the cast animation/projectile could even be seen. If you activated block the moment the projectile was let loose, you would still be stunned.

Excaltic

When PTS is live, can someone test if the stun from Destructive Reach (Lightning) is still present?

frostz417

Removing clench stun is the DUMBEST thing I’ve ever seen from zos. Gg zos nerfing things that don’t need to be nerfed.

Saril_Durzam

Agree with the OP, need changes.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

so, to give context to the discussion, i went on the pts and compared the staffs and their impacts on the skills, clench and elemetal ring.

i started with a base, mag sorc, with necroptance and IA on.

base damage here-

with front bar IA, clench is 2295 magic cost and does 7841 damage. ring costs 2984 and does 8324, more damage is part of the morph choice, the Pulsar does the same amount as clench 7841.


master destro instead of front bar IA-

clenches costs went all the way down to 1620 and the damage went up to 10,296. ring costs the same, 2984 and the damage went down to 8169, because of the loss of IAs 129 spell damage.



now for the black rose prison staff, or the "wild impulse" set.

clench costs 2295 and the damage is now 7696, because of the loss of the 120 spell damage of IA. shock rings cost went down to 2703 and the damage from the direct damage aoe si less, because of IA missing but the dot adds 12664 total damage if you let it tick, see the tooltip here-

so the conclusion to me is that with the master destro, lightning clench becomes the best aoe spammable in the game, short of whirling blades but even then, it costs almost half of the resources to cast and can be cast from range.

Excaltic

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Lots of text

Can you also give us a screenshot of / do a test with Destructive Reach (Lightning)?

Does that skill keep the stun?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Excaltic wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Lots of text

Can you also give us a screenshot of / do a test with Destructive Reach (Lightning)?

Does that skill keep the stun?

no, all the Destructive Reach versions do the same upfront damage and the same dot after, there is no difference in the skill by using a different element staff, other then the 8% boost to single target abilities from the fire staff passive.

FrancisCrawford

In the lightning case only, it sure seems as if the two skills are very similar, and don't both belong on the same skill bar.

ZarkingFrued

Red_Feather wrote: »

Gives people options since they have morphs and different elemental staffs.

No it does not give you options it takes away options. Before you have the option to use this and have a stun on lightning staff, now magden and magcro have to run a flame staff to get the knockback which really doesnt even synergize since it knocks back lol. It takes away an option since two skills do the exact same thing

ZarkingFrued

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Excaltic wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Lots of text

Can you also give us a screenshot of / do a test with Destructive Reach (Lightning)?

Does that skill keep the stun?

no, all the Destructive Reach versions do the same upfront damage and the same dot after, there is no difference in the skill by using a different element staff, other then the 8% boost to single target abilities from the fire staff passive.

Literally says in the notes that flame reach does knockback and stun lol ice does immobile

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Excaltic wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Lots of text

Can you also give us a screenshot of / do a test with Destructive Reach (Lightning)?

Does that skill keep the stun?

no, all the Destructive Reach versions do the same upfront damage and the same dot after, there is no difference in the skill by using a different element staff, other then the 8% boost to single target abilities from the fire staff passive.

Literally says in the notes that flame reach does knockback and stun lol ice does immobile

oh my god, the patch notes are wrong, it is typo, an editing error, it does not take a 200 IQ person to see this.

Destructive Reach(sic) (morph): This morph retains the unique functionality for each elemental staff type you choose, but no longer deals damage over time. Flame Clench knocks the target back and stuns them for the duration; Frost Clench Immobilizes the target. Shock converts the attack into an AoE explosion, and deals our AoE damage standard.


Destructive Reach (morph): This morph increases the range to 28 meters and reduces the cost to 2430 at Rank IV.

it has reach as both morphs and some people, like you, cant make the logical jump that clench is supposed to be the one that does not increase the range.

i know this for a fact because i have been on the pts for days.

just to make sure you get this difference @ZarkingFrued , here is a screenshot straight from the pts-

e-rwan

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

so, to give context to the discussion, i went on the pts and compared the staffs and their impacts on the skills, clench and elemetal ring.

i started with a base, mag sorc, with necroptance and IA on.

base damage here-

with front bar IA, clench is 2295 magic cost and does 7841 damage. ring costs 2984 and does 8324, more damage is part of the morph choice, the Pulsar does the same amount as clench 7841.


master destro instead of front bar IA-

clenches costs went all the way down to 1620 and the damage went up to 10,296. ring costs the same, 2984 and the damage went down to 8169, because of the loss of IAs 129 spell damage.



now for the black rose prison staff, or the "wild impulse" set.

clench costs 2295 and the damage is now 7696, because of the loss of the 120 spell damage of IA. shock rings cost went down to 2703 and the damage from the direct damage aoe si less, because of IA missing but the dot adds 12664 total damage if you let it tick, see the tooltip here-

so the conclusion to me is that with the master destro, lightning clench becomes the best aoe spammable in the game, short of whirling blades but even then, it costs almost half of the resources to cast and can be cast from range.

so, the way I understand it, shock clench, wich is the pts morph that many complain about, would be the best version with a master staff effectively making it a cheap and effective spammable?(for pvp ofc)
would you have a screen shot of fire/ice version with a master staff on?(my pts installation keep failing...)

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

e-rwan wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

so, to give context to the discussion, i went on the pts and compared the staffs and their impacts on the skills, clench and elemetal ring.

i started with a base, mag sorc, with necroptance and IA on.

base damage here-

with front bar IA, clench is 2295 magic cost and does 7841 damage. ring costs 2984 and does 8324, more damage is part of the morph choice, the Pulsar does the same amount as clench 7841.


master destro instead of front bar IA-

clenches costs went all the way down to 1620 and the damage went up to 10,296. ring costs the same, 2984 and the damage went down to 8169, because of the loss of IAs 129 spell damage.



now for the black rose prison staff, or the "wild impulse" set.

clench costs 2295 and the damage is now 7696, because of the loss of the 120 spell damage of IA. shock rings cost went down to 2703 and the damage from the direct damage aoe si less, because of IA missing but the dot adds 12664 total damage if you let it tick, see the tooltip here-

so the conclusion to me is that with the master destro, lightning clench becomes the best aoe spammable in the game, short of whirling blades but even then, it costs almost half of the resources to cast and can be cast from range.

so, the way I understand it, shock clench, wich is the pts morph that many complain about, would be the best version with a master staff effectively making it a cheap and effective spammable?(for pvp ofc)
would you have a screen shot of fire/ice version with a master staff on?(my pts installation keep failing...)

ice clench-



fire clench-

Derra

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

so the conclusion to me is that with the master destro, lightning clench becomes the best aoe spammable in the game, short of whirling blades but even then, it costs almost half of the resources to cast and can be cast from range.

What about the difference in radius of the two abilities?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Derra wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

so the conclusion to me is that with the master destro, lightning clench becomes the best aoe spammable in the game, short of whirling blades but even then, it costs almost half of the resources to cast and can be cast from range.

What about the difference in radius of the two abilities?

yes, a 1 meter difference is sort of a big deal, it is a 44% increase in the area the AOE covers but the cost difference is crazy, ele ring is 85% more costly. meaning you can cast clench almost twice as much, for more coverage.

Derra

How does its aoe compare towards maelstrom woe + lightning heavy?

Excaltic

Any word from ZoS that they are adding the stun back to Destructive Reach (Lightning)?

Since consoles are banned from access to PTS (which shows in the current terrible state of the game performance) I can't test or read anything...

frostz417

e-rwan wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

so, to give context to the discussion, i went on the pts and compared the staffs and their impacts on the skills, clench and elemetal ring.

i started with a base, mag sorc, with necroptance and IA on.

base damage here-

with front bar IA, clench is 2295 magic cost and does 7841 damage. ring costs 2984 and does 8324, more damage is part of the morph choice, the Pulsar does the same amount as clench 7841.


master destro instead of front bar IA-

clenches costs went all the way down to 1620 and the damage went up to 10,296. ring costs the same, 2984 and the damage went down to 8169, because of the loss of IAs 129 spell damage.



now for the black rose prison staff, or the "wild impulse" set.

clench costs 2295 and the damage is now 7696, because of the loss of the 120 spell damage of IA. shock rings cost went down to 2703 and the damage from the direct damage aoe si less, because of IA missing but the dot adds 12664 total damage if you let it tick, see the tooltip here-

so the conclusion to me is that with the master destro, lightning clench becomes the best aoe spammable in the game, short of whirling blades but even then, it costs almost half of the resources to cast and can be cast from range.

so, the way I understand it, shock clench, wich is the pts morph that many complain about, would be the best version with a master staff effectively making it a cheap and effective spammable?(for pvp ofc)
would you have a screen shot of fire/ice version with a master staff on?(my pts installation keep failing...)

You do realize shock clench is already a good spammable which is cheap and effective on live.
But next update It’s going to be absolute trash next patch. What part of that are you not getting.
It’s losing its stun, losing its dot, also having a 17% direct damage loss.
There’s literally nothing good about this garbage ability.

Destruent

frostz417 wrote: »

e-rwan wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

so, to give context to the discussion, i went on the pts and compared the staffs and their impacts on the skills, clench and elemetal ring.

i started with a base, mag sorc, with necroptance and IA on.

base damage here-

with front bar IA, clench is 2295 magic cost and does 7841 damage. ring costs 2984 and does 8324, more damage is part of the morph choice, the Pulsar does the same amount as clench 7841.


master destro instead of front bar IA-

clenches costs went all the way down to 1620 and the damage went up to 10,296. ring costs the same, 2984 and the damage went down to 8169, because of the loss of IAs 129 spell damage.



now for the black rose prison staff, or the "wild impulse" set.

clench costs 2295 and the damage is now 7696, because of the loss of the 120 spell damage of IA. shock rings cost went down to 2703 and the damage from the direct damage aoe si less, because of IA missing but the dot adds 12664 total damage if you let it tick, see the tooltip here-

so the conclusion to me is that with the master destro, lightning clench becomes the best aoe spammable in the game, short of whirling blades but even then, it costs almost half of the resources to cast and can be cast from range.

so, the way I understand it, shock clench, wich is the pts morph that many complain about, would be the best version with a master staff effectively making it a cheap and effective spammable?(for pvp ofc)
would you have a screen shot of fire/ice version with a master staff on?(my pts installation keep failing...)

You do realize shock clench is already a good spammable which is cheap and effective on live.
But next update It’s going to be absolute trash next patch. What part of that are you not getting.
It’s losing its stun, losing its dot, also having a 17% direct damage loss.
There’s literally nothing good about this garbage ability.

You could:
1. keep the morph and use it as aoe-spammable
2. change the morph and use it as a great dot

nothing garbage about that.

Aedrion

Good riddance. It should not be possible to spam-cast a CC from 35 meters away in Cyro.
As soon as anything on AD saw your face, there were 3 ranged CC's flying your way from downtown.

If this is a step toward making CC less prominent and spammable, I'm all for it.

The_Last_Titan

well i mean the tooltip was 17 meters