Sorcs not dead - 3 new dots

Zalathorm

I saw this posted in a different thread and saved it. Sorc has THREE new abilities to consider adding to the bars. Degeneration (mages guild), Soul trap, and Flame reach. All mag dps will have access to these three new dots. I dont know this person or how good they are, but it may not be the end of the world. RIP sorcs, delete all sorcs, etc like people are saying.

I haven't seen many stam parses yet, but they definitely wont be able to use 2 of the 3 new dots that mag classes will get.

Also I've seen people complaining about the new dots being too strong. I've always though it strange that in ESO, the BEST dots are also AOE dots (endless hail for example). Why SHOULDN"T single target or two target dots do significantly more damage on a single target encounter than AOE dots, IE hail, blockade, lightning, etc.

Pr0Skygon

Zalathorm wrote: »

I saw this posted in a different thread and saved it. Sorc has THREE new abilities to consider adding to the bars. Degeneration (mages guild), Soul trap, and Flame reach. All mag dps will have access to these three new dots. I dont know this person or how good they are, but it may not be the end of the world. RIP sorcs, delete all sorcs, etc like people are saying.

I haven't seen many stam parses yet, but they definitely wont be able to use 2 of the 3 new dots that mag classes will get.

Also I've seen people complaining about the new dots being too strong. I've always though it strange that in ESO, the BEST dots are also AOE dots (endless hail for example). Why SHOULDN"T single target or two target dots do significantly more damage on a single target encounter than AOE dots, IE hail, blockade, lightning, etc.

It's PTS norm, people jump into conclusion without doing any or very little test. Sorc has been declared "dead" for like 2 years on a row now, and look how thing is.

Arciris

Who said Sorc was dead? Sorc will be fine.

It's PetSorc who is dead.
Don't mistake the 2, they are so different than even Non PetSorcs hate PetSorcs.

Zalathorm

Arciris wrote: »

Who said Sorc was dead? Sorc will be fine.

It's PetSorc who is dead.
Don't mistake the 2, they are so different than even Non PetSorcs hate PetSorcs.

True! All the sorcs i know are overjoyed to not have to use flappy bird anymore.

jypcy

Zalathorm wrote: »

Also I've seen people complaining about the new dots being too strong. I've always though it strange that in ESO, the BEST dots are also AOE dots (endless hail for example). Why SHOULDN"T single target or two target dots do significantly more damage on a single target encounter than AOE dots, IE hail, blockade, lightning, etc.

I’m back and forth on this sentiment. Yes, ST dots affect fewer targets and so have less damage potential. However, ST dots are also attached to the target and thus need specific counterplay whether it be from a skill, set, or mechanic, whereas ground dots can be easily avoided by simply stepping out of the aoe.

I’m fine with the model that ZOS has introduced this patch, but I do think there’s an argument to be made against all the aoe dot nerfs as well.

Deloth_Vyrr

Arciris wrote: »

Who said Sorc was dead? Sorc will be fine.

It's PetSorc who is dead.
Don't mistake the 2, they are so different than even Non PetSorcs hate PetSorcs.

Why anyone would "hate" someone elses legitimate playstyle is beyond me. People need lives.

jaysins

And that's with how laggy and glitchy PTS has been.

Arciris

Deloth_Vyrr wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

Who said Sorc was dead? Sorc will be fine.

It's PetSorc who is dead.
Don't mistake the 2, they are so different than even Non PetSorcs hate PetSorcs.

Why anyone would "hate" someone elses legitimate playstyle is beyond me. People need lives.

Totally agree!
But it's what happens.
Some people think that the game should be played like this but shouldn't be played like that.
They repeat it so many times that after a while people just think it's a normal thing.
The only thing that people should do in a video game is to have fun and the only think people shouldn't do in a video game is poking their nose into how other players are playing the game.
My 2 cents of course.

Pr0Skygon

Arciris wrote: »

Deloth_Vyrr wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

Who said Sorc was dead? Sorc will be fine.

It's PetSorc who is dead.
Don't mistake the 2, they are so different than even Non PetSorcs hate PetSorcs.

Why anyone would "hate" someone elses legitimate playstyle is beyond me. People need lives.

Totally agree!
But it's what happens.
Some people think that the game should be played like this but shouldn't be played like that.
They repeat it so many times that after a while people just think it's a normal thing.
The only thing that people should do in a video game is to have fun and the only think people shouldn't do in a video game is poking their nose into how other players are playing the game.
My 2 cents of course.

I say people can love or hate anything they want, as long as they have a reasonable stand for their reaction.
I myself do not hate petsorc, but I can partly see why people have problem with them.

Arciris

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

Deloth_Vyrr wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

Who said Sorc was dead? Sorc will be fine.

It's PetSorc who is dead.
Don't mistake the 2, they are so different than even Non PetSorcs hate PetSorcs.

Why anyone would "hate" someone elses legitimate playstyle is beyond me. People need lives.

Totally agree!
But it's what happens.
Some people think that the game should be played like this but shouldn't be played like that.
They repeat it so many times that after a while people just think it's a normal thing.
The only thing that people should do in a video game is to have fun and the only think people shouldn't do in a video game is poking their nose into how other players are playing the game.
My 2 cents of course.

I say people can love or hate anything they want, as long as they have a reasonable stand for their reaction.
I myself do not hate petsorc, but I can partly see why people have problem with them.

Well, I can hate people who eat too much cheese, and I can even give a reasonable explanation for it (cheese ferments a lot and cause gazes. and I don't like other people's farts). Can I go around spreading my hate? To some degree, if I'm smart about it, I can too.
Doesn't makes it necessarily the right thing tho, IMHO.

edit for clarification~: i don't hate people who eat cheese, it was just the first example that popped on my tired brain.

Ruvalie

I haven't been playing long, but the strong AOE dots (not pets, but stuff like lightning splash and wall of elements) were one of the things I liked about the game. I would hate to have to kill each mob in a group individually with single target attacks, because I find that playstyle really unfun. I hope the nerfs won't be that bad, but I don't have space to install the PTS so I'll have to wait and see.

GraphicArtistYT

Lol sorcs been dead

wills43b14_ESO

Sorcs been dead for the last year really... Wrathstone was probably the only viable time sorc saw before the stamcro meta. I will say, while sorc parses are 90k, only magplars are parsing LOWER atm. That sorc parse will IMMEDIATELY lose 6k+ dps the moment they have to slot ANYTHING besides dps (especially if they need a self heal). Magcro is a more realistic choice, but since stam are parsing 100-103k and offering better utility, it's pretty clear they're dominating PTS week 1.

Heymexa

5.1.0 M.Sorc - is dead.
Pars (above) is a lie.

1. There is no place for saving ability (all slots are occupied).
2. Scump - an ugly ability that most players hate.
3. Food without HP

Dear developers.
Dots and Twilight is a weakening of the Sorcerer in PVE too much.
You kill this class again. Stop it.

3k DPS is too low for 2 slots (Twilight). Think again.

Emma_Overload

Damn, that Familiar pulse is so low, considering Daedric Prey is used. Your DPS would be better with Bound Aegis instead!

Olupajmibanan

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Damn, that Familiar pulse is so low, considering Daedric Prey is used. Your DPS would be better with Bound Aegis instead!

Wtf you are talking about? Familiar is his second most damaging ability doing more than 8500 dps.

Emma_Overload

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Damn, that Familiar pulse is so low, considering Daedric Prey is used. Your DPS would be better with Bound Aegis instead!

Wtf you are talking about? Familiar is his second most damaging ability doing more than 8500 dps.

Huh? You must be looking at the Atronach zap, which is an ultimate. The Familiar pulse is way down the list.

Tannus15

Lol, sorcs will now run what, 2 or 3 sorc skills out of 10 slots. Sorc dps is ok, sorc as a class is just a collection of passives.

Olupajmibanan

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Damn, that Familiar pulse is so low, considering Daedric Prey is used. Your DPS would be better with Bound Aegis instead!

Wtf you are talking about? Familiar is his second most damaging ability doing more than 8500 dps.

Huh? You must be looking at the Atronach zap, which is an ultimate. The Familiar pulse is way down the list.

Familiar has two damage components - the pulse and melee attack.

Beardimus

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Damn, that Familiar pulse is so low, considering Daedric Prey is used. Your DPS would be better with Bound Aegis instead!

Wtf you are talking about? Familiar is his second most damaging ability doing more than 8500 dps.

WTH are YOU talking about that's an Ultimate...

Emma is right.

Saril_Durzam

I find that parse... weird. I remember last Liko video with familar doing way less DPS, around 1,6k DPS on melee attacks and pulse around 4k. Could be due it was in a 6m parse, but still, pet damage is supposedly nerfed, AOE dot is supposedly nerfed, and then appears a parse which supposedly shows it´s improved?

Weird.

Olupajmibanan

Beardimus wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Damn, that Familiar pulse is so low, considering Daedric Prey is used. Your DPS would be better with Bound Aegis instead!

Wtf you are talking about? Familiar is his second most damaging ability doing more than 8500 dps.

WTH are YOU talking about that's an Ultimate...

Emma is right.

Emma would be right if the familiar was only standing in place, pulsing and not doing his melee attacks at all.

Lapin_Logic

Heymexa wrote: »

5.1.0 M.Sorc - is dead.
Dear developers.
Dots and Twilight is a weakening of the Sorcerer in PVE too much.
You kill this class again. Stop it.

3k DPS is too low for 2 slots (Twilight). Think again.

Zero Magicka Resource Cost for 3k DPS... how terrible.
The Real problem is Sorc Burst heal being tied to a Pet that has Less health than the player and is always getting killed and getting in the way of "Interactions"

Saril_Durzam

Nope, the OP is right. Familiar has above 8k DPS, you need to sum its melee attack (2,9k) plus his pulse (5,6k).

What i don´t trust much is on such numbers. Pulse as as AOE DoT should be nerfed, and it´s actually buffed from parses i saw on Live.

And yeah, Sorc is dead. Or not. On pugs you will see many. Ranged DPS is always desirable. But for going for perfomance, being able to choose a class? Noone will choose Sorcs. Warden Bow deals more DPS as ranged. As stamcro or stamblade. As stamsorc.

The only real issue is the quantiity of Sorc players. For a smaller player base, like magWarden, it would be not a problem. But being so many, it will ichy.

TheInfernalRage

Don't post something like this or the other classes will take notice and demand more sorc nerfs.

Saril_Durzam

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

Don't post something like this or the other classes will take notice and demand more sorc nerfs.

More sorc nerfs? Even if these numbers were right, Sorc would be BEHIND any other class in the game in DPS except from Templars and maybe DKs. But templars still have top healing build and DKs top tanking build. RIght now Wardens have better DPS, healer and tank builds than Sorc. Same about Nightblade and Necro. I find reasons not to fear other players screaming nerf sorc, honestly.

bol

1. Drop 1 dot to place a shield
2. Use normal food instead of cheese
3. Without cheese food you need to change backbar berseker to absorb magicka to sustain

And you are at 80k or less.

Probably the lowest of all mag class right now. And just look at how many slots are filled with sorc skills on that parse. Why even have the class? for the passives? Magsorc is turning into Stamsorc. We don't really need 3 skills trees, one would be enough and would fit all the skills that are used by either mag or stam right now.

Saril_Durzam

And u24 will fix passives so... let´s see what´s left! Be positive, in couple of months you will be playing a diff class at the same money!

cheemers

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Damn, that Familiar pulse is so low, considering Daedric Prey is used. Your DPS would be better with Bound Aegis instead!

Beardimus wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Damn, that Familiar pulse is so low, considering Daedric Prey is used. Your DPS would be better with Bound Aegis instead!

Wtf you are talking about? Familiar is his second most damaging ability doing more than 8500 dps.

WTH are YOU talking about that's an Ultimate...

Emma is right.

5.6k DPS pulse + 2.9k DPS melee = 8.5k scamp DPS

Lol #sorcmainscanmath

Zalathorm

bol wrote: »

1. Drop 1 dot to place a shield
2. Use normal food instead of cheese
3. Without cheese food you need to change backbar berseker to absorb magicka to sustain

And you are at 80k or less.

Probably the lowest of all mag class right now. And just look at how many slots are filled with sorc skills on that parse. Why even have the class? for the passives? Magsorc is turning into Stamsorc. We don't really need 3 skills trees, one would be enough and would fit all the skills that are used by either mag or stam right now.

Trial dummy parses get compared to trial dummy parses.

Everyone loses massive dps when slotting defensive abilities, eating real food, and adding sustain.

Trial dummy parses are not realistic. They only show max dps potential in optimized conditions. So your logic is correct, but it also applies to EVERY OTHER CLASS.

universal_wrath

Zalathorm wrote: »

I saw this posted in a different thread and saved it. Sorc has THREE new abilities to consider adding to the bars. Degeneration (mages guild), Soul trap, and Flame reach. All mag dps will have access to these three new dots. I dont know this person or how good they are, but it may not be the end of the world. RIP sorcs, delete all sorcs, etc like people are saying.

I haven't seen many stam parses yet, but they definitely wont be able to use 2 of the 3 new dots that mag classes will get.

Also I've seen people complaining about the new dots being too strong. I've always though it strange that in ESO, the BEST dots are also AOE dots (endless hail for example). Why SHOULDN"T single target or two target dots do significantly more damage on a single target encounter than AOE dots, IE hail, blockade, lightning, etc.

Maybe because there are very few skills that are single target dots.