[PTS 5.1.0] 42k Bleed Build (DW+2h) - up to 72k buffed

Bandugar

but then it will be only 2 bleeds, werewolf one and Pillars. Dont worth using new set.

Bladerunner1

I took a stab at it with the DK



It's hard to tell the percentages of bleed uptimes but they seem pretty high, this was with the new bleed set / Regular Relequen / Maelstrom dual wield / Master battle axe since I'm using carve.

Bandugar

Nice info!
But why master axe? would it be better with maelstrom one? Stompede dot renew dot from maelstrom two hander so it lasts like 14 sec or so.
Also you can try to use dw ulti since it applies bleed too.
Sad that we can't track weapon damage buff

GeorgeBlack

So what's the problem?
It's beautiful. No more DW/BOW if you dont want to.

Bandugar

Who was saying about problem?
Its great indeed for build diversity.

huschdeguddzje

Xogath wrote: »

Had to log in at work to comment on this.

Not gonna lie, it would be pretty great to not be cornholed in to */Bow constantly.. and have never really given much thought to using something other than Bow on the back bar.

These 70k+ parses are better than what I've been able to achieve on live with my Stamina Necro using Velidreth/Relequen*/Deadly Strikes. (*Non-perfect Relequen; 70.6k best parse thus far)

I would love to run a 2H/DW build on my Stamina Necro, and now that I think about it, the abilities to do so actually make it sound pretty interesting.

So, this is an awesone find! Hopefully it isn't nerfed in to the dirt like I fear it will be. Hopefully not, though, as this is a great step in the whole "build diversity" direction that this game direly needs.

Speaking of sets and parses, have you tried giving Deadly Strikes a go? It's a straight 14% increase to Bleeds. You could use it as your accessory set, and use the 2H and DW weapons to maintain it 100%, along with whatever body and monster sets may work well with it.

Personally, I'd try both Hunding's and Relequen as body sets to see how they pair up. If the new Monster set is also a DoT (I forget), Deadly Strikes may buff it also.

Then again, the 14% it offers may pale in comparison to something else.

I'm thinking something along the lines of:

2H: Blastbones / Venom Skull / Carve / Executioner / Detonating Siphon / U: Pestilent Colossus
DW: Trap or Psijic-equal skill / Rending Slashes / Soul Trap? / ??? / Skeletal Archer / U: Rend (would be buffed by Deadly, but Colossus is probably a better choice to use for the debuff)

Execute phase.. since we're not prioritizing Poison Injection and Endless Hail any longer.. maybe instead prioritize the DW DoTs while spamming Executioner.

Anyways, regardless, this is a great and neat find!

I'd use dw on the main bar and use rapid strikes instead of venom skull to benefit from deadly strikes.

Bladerunner1

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

5. I would love for a good stamblade player to try using this setup and see what they can do, im fairly convinced a stamblade (played well) will hit higher DPS

I really gave this a try on my stamblade and just can't seem to push the bleed build past 80k. It's always 10% behind my DK, and I think it has something to do with DOTs and Thaumaturge which doesn't synergize with Nightblade direct damage.

All the new focus on single target DOTs has me concerned for the Nightblade. It has been behind my other builds since last patch and it was my main since day 1. DOTs are awesome for most builds that have high reliance on Thaumaturge, but I think this patch will widen the gap for my Stamblade.

validifyedneb18_ESO

Bandugar wrote: »

But if you dont use Pillars you loose one bleed. And all this thread about bleed build Basically Pillars give you nice aoe bleed and 200 wpd agains all it hits. So in real situations aka 4 man - I believe it will be great. Because releq in 4 man is *** honestly, especially if you run 3 dds. All dies too fast, or you meet mechanics where you cant attack to keep releq stacks.

Pillars sits at about a nice 90~% uptime so you really get the value out of the 2 set combo, but from what other people have been posting trying this set out, even with that bonus is does not make Pillars better than Reliquens - which is really sad. But on the plus side, it gets close, like 5-10% close. So ill take that.

validifyedneb18_ESO

Bandugar wrote: »

but then it will be only 2 bleeds, werewolf one and Pillars. Dont worth using new set.

between rending and carve both at 90% uptime, the set has a base value of +360 weapon damage, which is significant. Using Axes gives about 80% uptime on twinblade&blunt taking that base value up to +520.

You then have about 35% uptime on heavy weapon from the 2h offbar axe (which unlike the front bar doesn't require a crit chance sacrifice), +590 wd.

And the synergy with pillars at near enough 100% uptime for +790. Thats INSANE for a single set 5p. Like Necropotence giving you 8000 magicka just on the 5pc, rather than 3000.

Although admittedly i think it makes more sense to consider it as +590, and consider pillars as +200, as this makes more sense when comparing sets. For example +200 on pillars clearly still wont make it better than relequens, but it gets it close.

Bandugar

Keep in mind that you can use dw ultimate too, its apply one more bleed effect. So you can stack more wpd. So you can get 1200 wpd if all running same time, but usually you will have like 600-800 which is very good. And finally some new concept for stamina dps, without bow and usual setup. And not overpowered! So gj on this one, ZOS.

LiquidPony

I've tested quite a bit with 2H/DW builds (and other non-bow builds, including DW/DW, 2H/2H, DW back 2H front, and even a meme-worthy Infero/DW build) on both stamsorc and stamDK.

IMO Relequen + Deadly Strike + vMA DW + vMA 2H is the way to go on a 2H/DW setup.

My best stamsorc parse with 2H/DW is 97k. With Lokke instead of Deadly Strike, I top out around 95k (Lokke *might* be better with another synergy and 100% Major Slayer uptime). With the new Claw set, I top out around 93-94k.

On a stamDK, it's 94k with Deadly Strike, 92k with Lokke, and about 90k with the new Claw set.

Stamsorc:


StamDK:


For pure single-target, IMO this is the setup to run. However, for content where Relequen isn't ideal, Pillar of Nirn would indeed be really good ... and in that case there's probably not much difference between Deadly Strike and Claw since you're getting another +200 Weapon Damage.

Nemesis7884

why nerf it again? I REEAAAALLLY appreciate having an alternative to the always dw+bow... more build diversity so this is GREAT

Nemesis7884

besides, why nerf it for pvp - with the mitigation changes to bleed this doesnt seem an issue anymore?

Bandugar

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

why nerf it again? I REEAAAALLLY appreciate having an alternative to the always dw+bow... more build diversity so this is GREAT

What nerf are you talking about?

Xogath

huschdeguddzje wrote: »

Xogath wrote: »

Had to log in at work to comment on this.

Not gonna lie, it would be pretty great to not be cornholed in to */Bow constantly.. and have never really given much thought to using something other than Bow on the back bar.

These 70k+ parses are better than what I've been able to achieve on live with my Stamina Necro using Velidreth/Relequen*/Deadly Strikes. (*Non-perfect Relequen; 70.6k best parse thus far)

I would love to run a 2H/DW build on my Stamina Necro, and now that I think about it, the abilities to do so actually make it sound pretty interesting.

So, this is an awesone find! Hopefully it isn't nerfed in to the dirt like I fear it will be. Hopefully not, though, as this is a great step in the whole "build diversity" direction that this game direly needs.

Speaking of sets and parses, have you tried giving Deadly Strikes a go? It's a straight 14% increase to Bleeds. You could use it as your accessory set, and use the 2H and DW weapons to maintain it 100%, along with whatever body and monster sets may work well with it.

Personally, I'd try both Hunding's and Relequen as body sets to see how they pair up. If the new Monster set is also a DoT (I forget), Deadly Strikes may buff it also.

Then again, the 14% it offers may pale in comparison to something else.

I'm thinking something along the lines of:

2H: Blastbones / Venom Skull / Carve / Executioner / Detonating Siphon / U: Pestilent Colossus
DW: Trap or Psijic-equal skill / Rending Slashes / Soul Trap? / ??? / Skeletal Archer / U: Rend (would be buffed by Deadly, but Colossus is probably a better choice to use for the debuff)

Execute phase.. since we're not prioritizing Poison Injection and Endless Hail any longer.. maybe instead prioritize the DW DoTs while spamming Executioner.

Anyways, regardless, this is a great and neat find!

I'd use dw on the main bar and use rapid strikes instead of venom skull to benefit from deadly strikes.

Both setups would certainly be worth trying, but the reason I stick to Venom Skull and 2H on the front bar is so you can benefit from the extra 10% Critical from having Venom Skull slotted during the Execute phase. Then again, the Necro passives probably synergize with the Dual Wield passives really well, too.. I just like having an Execute because big numbers, hah.

Also, I was considering the same thing and wondering if Rapid Strikes would benefit from Deadly Strikes as a Physical DoT.. nice that it does.

universal_wrath

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I like how this looks. No more 15-20% damage from three or four super strong skills, it looks more balanced and varied now which is good imho.

Thanks for sharing!

Have you tried using Soul Trap in your build?

no, I didnt even realise that was a thing if Im going to be completely honest... not sure what id replace, assuming you just cast it as a spammable when you have the mana? would definitely help with stamina sustain, its pretty brutal on this build if you clip your DOTS too much

not a spammable, a single target dot, what does your back bar look like?

Just realized lol, could replace deadly cloak but it would come at the cost of front procs while on offbar. +800 dps base and slightly easier rotation and sustain, so may be worth.

Updated main post with backbar

replace clatrops with soul trap. caltrops is hot garbage now.

that does remove my major fracture, rather annoyingly, but yeah good idea, testing out as a replacement for deadly cloak rn, seems like a damn strong increase to dps and so good for sustain I could maybe switch some sustain back to damage. First parse my offhand ran out of charge right at the start though so nothing solid yet

unless you need it for vMA or something, major fracture will be taken care of by a tank. on my stam sorc, caltrops does 935 per tick, soul trap does 2.5k per tick, tool tips.

You don't need fracture for vMA, it's a good addtion but not nessary. You can still git hard if not harder in scale breaker patch than elswye if things stay the same.

validifyedneb18_ESO

Bandugar wrote: »

Keep in mind that you can use dw ultimate too, its apply one more bleed effect. So you can stack more wpd. So you can get 1200 wpd if all running same time, but usually you will have like 600-800 which is very good. And finally some new concept for stamina dps, without bow and usual setup. And not overpowered! So gj on this one, ZOS.

Unless things have changed, the DW ultimate is a Physical DOT, but not a bleed. Doesn't benefit from blood-drinker for example.

Never understood why not, maybe it can be classified a bleed now it wont make it penetrating - which would have probably been fairly overpowered with rends damage output.

Bandugar

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Unless things have changed, the DW ultimate is a Physical DOT, but not a bleed. Doesn't benefit from blood-drinker for example.

Never understood why not, maybe it can be classified a bleed now it wont make it penetrating - which would have probably been fairly overpowered with rends damage output.

At PTS there is ''bleed' word in description. And I tested it with light attacks, and my light attacks were higher while ulti was up.

validifyedneb18_ESO

Bandugar wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

Unless things have changed, the DW ultimate is a Physical DOT, but not a bleed. Doesn't benefit from blood-drinker for example.

Never understood why not, maybe it can be classified a bleed now it wont make it penetrating - which would have probably been fairly overpowered with rends damage output.

At PTS there is ''bleed' word in description. And I tested it with light attacks, and my light attacks were higher while ulti was up.

ill maybe test it with blooddrinker to check

validifyedneb18_ESO

turns out rending (and I assume other morphs) is now classified as a bleed.

Not sure if this changes much, using blooddrinker instead of pillars results in a slight (1.4%) damage loss when using rend as the ultimate. This does however lose the bonus from having a sorc ultimate on the frontbar to increase weapon damage (or dawnbreaker for everyone else).

Will try more with rend and the pillars build.

Also thanks to everyone else for posting more meta versions of the build, testing that *** so I dont have to myself. Hate relequens.

EDIT: Tested rend as the ultimate, sits at about 35-40% uptime, not worth it and ~4% dps decrease. Was excited for a bit there, always loved rend in PVP and sad it was never a bleed. Probably pretty OP in PVP with drozakar and blooddrinker though.

Stibbons

Yes we know stamina toons got buffed in all endgame content.

Bandugar

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

turns out rending (and I assume other morphs) is now classified as a bleed.

Not sure if this changes much, using blooddrinker instead of pillars results in a slight (1.4%) damage loss when using rend as the ultimate. This does however lose the bonus from having a sorc ultimate on the frontbar to increase weapon damage (or dawnbreaker for everyone else).

Dawnbreaker is not good now, check patch notes. So maybe its not that bad choice now to run dw ulti in this build.

validifyedneb18_ESO

Bandugar wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

turns out rending (and I assume other morphs) is now classified as a bleed.

Not sure if this changes much, using blooddrinker instead of pillars results in a slight (1.4%) damage loss when using rend as the ultimate. This does however lose the bonus from having a sorc ultimate on the frontbar to increase weapon damage (or dawnbreaker for everyone else).

Dawnbreaker is not good now, check patch notes. So maybe its not that bad choice now to run dw ulti in this build.

Still a loss of 100 dmg from fighters guild passives though. So without the DW being significantly better than the existing offbar ult, its not worth.

e-rwan

have you tried without pillar of nirn? maybe with axe on both front and back bar, the axe bleed uptime could be sufficient to get the 3 stack at all time.