Ambush is no longer a NB only skill

Maryal

Each class has abilities unique to it ... it feels bad when your more iconic class abilities are duplicated in skill lines anyone has access to. Two of the NB's more iconic abilities (fear and ambush) are now available to all classes via the generic skill lines. I realize it's not an 'exact' duplicate, but it's close enough that it may as well be. Right now it's two of the NBs more iconic class abilities that got hijacked. So, why should non-NBs care? Because it's only a matter of time before this happens to Templars, DK's, Wardens, Sorcs, and yes, Necros. It's one thing to have to deal with class nerfs, it's quite another thing when your more iconic class abilities are (virtually) duplicated and placed in generic skill lines. That is something we should all be concerned about.

There is 1 big difference between the NB ability 'ambush' and the generic ambush placed in the dual wield skill line ... and it's NOT the damage caused. As a NB I have to 'pay resources' to use ambush, however, using the same skill via the dual wield skill line is free. Heck, even the animations are identical.

Here is a screenshot to give you an idea of what I am talking about:

Xvorg

Maryal wrote: »

Each class has abilities unique to it ... it feels bad when your more iconic class abilities are duplicated in skill lines anyone has access to. Two of the NB's more iconic abilities (fear and ambush) are now available to all classes via the generic skill lines. I realize it's not an 'exact' duplicate, but it's close enough that it may as well be. Right now it's two of the NBs more iconic class abilities that got hijacked. So, why should non-NBs care? Because it's only a matter of time before this happens to Templars, DK's, Wardens, Sorcs, and yes, Necros. It's one thing to have to deal with class nerfs, it's quite another thing when your more iconic class abilities are (virtually) duplicated and placed in generic skill lines. That is something we should all be concerned about.

There is 1 big difference between the NB ability 'ambush' and the generic ambush placed in the dual wield skill line ... and it's NOT the damage caused. As a NB I have to 'pay resources' to use ambush, however, using the same skill via the dual wield skill line is free. Heck, even the animations are identical.

Here is a screenshot to give you an idea of what I am talking about:

Sorry, but Dks already suffered that some patches ago with the change to Silver leash, from a gap closer to a pull.

Not to mention what they did to Wings. Now everyone has wings if they use S/B

Sun7dance

It's not that fair, coz weapon skills can procc glyphs and poisons!

GeorgeBlack

The new DW ability is more like the first Silver Leash. Nothing like Ambush.

Maryal

Xvorg wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

Each class has abilities unique to it ... it feels bad when your more iconic class abilities are duplicated in skill lines anyone has access to. Two of the NB's more iconic abilities (fear and ambush) are now available to all classes via the generic skill lines. I realize it's not an 'exact' duplicate, but it's close enough that it may as well be. Right now it's two of the NBs more iconic class abilities that got hijacked. So, why should non-NBs care? Because it's only a matter of time before this happens to Templars, DK's, Wardens, Sorcs, and yes, Necros. It's one thing to have to deal with class nerfs, it's quite another thing when your more iconic class abilities are (virtually) duplicated and placed in generic skill lines. That is something we should all be concerned about.

There is 1 big difference between the NB ability 'ambush' and the generic ambush placed in the dual wield skill line ... and it's NOT the damage caused. As a NB I have to 'pay resources' to use ambush, however, using the same skill via the dual wield skill line is free. Heck, even the animations are identical.

Here is a screenshot to give you an idea of what I am talking about:

Sorry, but Dks already suffered that some patches ago with the change to Silver leash, from a gap closer to a pull.

Not to mention what they did to Wings. Now everyone has wings if they use S/B

Yep. Feels bad.

Maryal

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

The new DW ability is more like the first Silver Leash. Nothing like Ambush.

huh?

'Flying blade' ('hidden blade' morph): the first cast of the skill flings a 'hidden knife' at your target that damages and also 'marks' the target. Using the same skill again (while the target is still marked) is free AND it transports you to the target and deals damage in the exact same way as NB's gap-closer, 'ambush' does ... both have the exact same animation and, for me, both dealt the same amount of damage.

Maryal

Sun7dance wrote: »

It's not that fair, coz weapon skills can procc glyphs and poisons!

I forgot about that. So, not only is the DW 'ambush' free to use, but it also can land glyph damage. Hmmm ... that really makes the NB's ambush the inferior of the two.

blnchk

While it probably makes sense for the skill line to have a gap closer, I'm surprised that they haven't crammed a superior version of Grim Focus somewhere into it as well.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

all i am seeing is 2 global cooldown vs one. meaning ambush is twice as effective as a gap closer then flying blade.

Royaji

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

all i am seeing is 2 global cooldown vs one. meaning ambush is twice as effective as a gap closer then flying blade.

The gap closer portion of Flying Blade does not respect or count for GCDs. It's in the notes.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Royaji wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

all i am seeing is 2 global cooldown vs one. meaning ambush is twice as effective as a gap closer then flying blade.

The gap closer portion of Flying Blade does not respect or count for GCDs. It's in the notes.

what does that even mean? you still have to press the button twice don't you? one to "mark" the target and other to teleport to the target.

Royaji

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

all i am seeing is 2 global cooldown vs one. meaning ambush is twice as effective as a gap closer then flying blade.

The gap closer portion of Flying Blade does not respect or count for GCDs. It's in the notes.

what does that even mean? you still have to press the button twice don't you? one to "mark" the target and other to teleport to the target.

It means that the gap closer is similar to a Light Attack in its function. So you are not wasting a GCD on it since you can go Flying Blade > gap closer > other skill as you would normally weave a LA.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Royaji wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

all i am seeing is 2 global cooldown vs one. meaning ambush is twice as effective as a gap closer then flying blade.

The gap closer portion of Flying Blade does not respect or count for GCDs. It's in the notes.

what does that even mean? you still have to press the button twice don't you? one to "mark" the target and other to teleport to the target.

It means that the gap closer is similar to a Light Attack in its function. So you are not wasting a GCD on it since you can go Flying Blade > gap closer > other skill as you would normally weave a LA.

flying blade is still a 2 step function, abush is one step, that makes it better.

Mayrael

You need to AIM it to port? Does it respect LoS?

This is just bulls**t. Let's just give cloak to everyone and be done with it, delete the NB class. There is no reason to play magblade anymore.

josh.lackey_ESO

This is good. I wish they'd go ahead and do Spellcrafting so everyone could build their own kit. Every class ability should have some kind of non-class counterpart. They need to do invisibility and teleport next, so cloak and streak are available to all.

GeorgeBlack

Welp, I dont see it to be any different than all the other stamina gap closers.

I dont remember any NB supporting DK when Silver Leash came along. Everybody was like "I can tank too now with my NB"

Maybe people should start looking after the health of the game, and not only their nightblades and sorc.

Kidgangster101

Maryal wrote: »

Each class has abilities unique to it ... it feels bad when your more iconic class abilities are duplicated in skill lines anyone has access to. Two of the NB's more iconic abilities (fear and ambush) are now available to all classes via the generic skill lines. I realize it's not an 'exact' duplicate, but it's close enough that it may as well be. Right now it's two of the NBs more iconic class abilities that got hijacked. So, why should non-NBs care? Because it's only a matter of time before this happens to Templars, DK's, Wardens, Sorcs, and yes, Necros. It's one thing to have to deal with class nerfs, it's quite another thing when your more iconic class abilities are (virtually) duplicated and placed in generic skill lines. That is something we should all be concerned about.

There is 1 big difference between the NB ability 'ambush' and the generic ambush placed in the dual wield skill line ... and it's NOT the damage caused. As a NB I have to 'pay resources' to use ambush, however, using the same skill via the dual wield skill line is free. Heck, even the animations are identical.

Here is a screenshot to give you an idea of what I am talking about:

Except you give vulnerability increasing your damage against them 2 different skills and effects lol.

Maryal

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

Each class has abilities unique to it ... it feels bad when your more iconic class abilities are duplicated in skill lines anyone has access to. Two of the NB's more iconic abilities (fear and ambush) are now available to all classes via the generic skill lines. I realize it's not an 'exact' duplicate, but it's close enough that it may as well be. Right now it's two of the NBs more iconic class abilities that got hijacked. So, why should non-NBs care? Because it's only a matter of time before this happens to Templars, DK's, Wardens, Sorcs, and yes, Necros. It's one thing to have to deal with class nerfs, it's quite another thing when your more iconic class abilities are (virtually) duplicated and placed in generic skill lines. That is something we should all be concerned about.

There is 1 big difference between the NB ability 'ambush' and the generic ambush placed in the dual wield skill line ... and it's NOT the damage caused. As a NB I have to 'pay resources' to use ambush, however, using the same skill via the dual wield skill line is free. Heck, even the animations are identical.

Here is a screenshot to give you an idea of what I am talking about:

Except you give vulnerability increasing your damage against them 2 different skills and effects lol.

no matter what order I did them in (ability first, skill second / skill first, ability second) the damage was either identical or within a few points of each other (negligible difference).

Khenzy

The new Dual Wield gap closer is very very meh in practice. It feels clunky and it takes two actions. In my opinion it's just not that good at all. Ambush is by far the superior alternatve.

technohic

I didn't know NBs held the patent on gap closers. I mean that's the identity? I thought it was cloak and shadow image.

Maryal

I made my initial post from a 'big picture' point of view. When ZOS takes some of the more unique class abilities and (virtually) duplicates them in a generic skill line, it waters down the respective class ... making the 'pilfered' class less unique. While I am a NB and commenting specifically on fear and ambush, as someone else pointed out, ZOS also did this to DKs (SnB now can reflect both magical AND physical projectiles).

I get that not everyone cares about their class being unique -- there's nothing wrong with that. I, on the other hand, enjoy each class being unique - so when ZOS does this sort of stuff, IMO, it feels worse than having my class nerfed. At least when a class suffers an over-nerf in one patch, there is a good likelihood of getting some 'make-up' buffs in a later patch.

However, how can ZOS 'make up' for watering down a class? It's certainly not going to be by buffing the pilfered class in a later patch. They could give that class a 'new unique ability' in a later patch, but that would mean loosing an existing ability (sigh).

If the overall plan is to homogenize the classes by gradually disbursing unique class abilities among the general skill lines, ZOS should at least come clean with that information.

sweatapodimas

technohic wrote: »

I didn't know NBs held the patent on gap closers. I mean that's the identity? I thought it was cloak and shadow image.

Not so Fast!

Patent 8675309 - NB Ownership of Ambushing and all-around Douchery (for specific-and-non-all-around-Douchery, see MagSorc Patent 8675309a)

Claim 1 Gap-closing or Ambush, as claimed by the claimant(s), claims that the awkward squatting while in mid-air flight is owned solely by said NB claimant(s).

Claim 2 All phrases herein and so-forth containing the phrase, "OMG you @#$% cheater your lethal arrow/ambush(see claim 1)/incap strike hit at the same time" or any phrase that insinuates such crying-induced actions is owned strictly by NBs (macro-hacking being reserved for all L2Pers)

Claim 3 *ssssnkt* *spluuurrrrrch* (dead Generic Imperial City Pat Attorney)

Flama_Blama

DKs were first. Member when the original Flames of oblivian was gifted to sorcs (hurricane) and then to everyone (grothdar)?
And wings.....

Mayrael

technohic wrote: »

I didn't know NBs held the patent on gap closers. I mean that's the identity? I thought it was cloak and shadow image.

...don't forget about fear. Yeah, shadow image, skill that doesn't work in keeps, mile gates etc. Cloak, skill with most counters in the game. Awesome! Maybe "uniqe" phantasmal escape? Oh wait shuffle does it 2x times better. Tell me, why should anyone play magblade now? To use cloak? Please... With those changes if anyone would decide to play magblade he would be and idiot, everything magblade does others can do better period.

Abhaya

technohic wrote: »

I didn't know NBs held the patent on gap closers. I mean that's the identity? I thought it was cloak and shadow image.

Saw another post today claiming that circle of protection was bad because NB’s own the only unblockable AOE CC and letting other classes have access to that goes against their copyright laws.

Mayrael

Abhaya wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I didn't know NBs held the patent on gap closers. I mean that's the identity? I thought it was cloak and shadow image.

Saw another post today claiming that circle of protection was bad because NB’s own the only unblockable AOE CC and letting other classes have access to that goes against their copyright laws.

Spreading missinformation. Nobody claims NBs have only right to use fear, the point is that Turn Evil is better than class fear by a mile, this was never the case in the past.

Abhaya

Mayrael wrote: »

Abhaya wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I didn't know NBs held the patent on gap closers. I mean that's the identity? I thought it was cloak and shadow image.

Saw another post today claiming that circle of protection was bad because NB’s own the only unblockable AOE CC and letting other classes have access to that goes against their copyright laws.

Spreading missinformation. Nobody claims NBs have only right to use fear, the point is that Turn Evil is better than class fear by a mile, this was never the case in the past.

Was a bit of hyperbole.

Abhaya

The only was I see flying blade being useful is if the damage is comparable or better than light attack damage and if you were to weave it instead of lightattacks giving you a free gapcloser with damage on every GCD. This could be interesting but not sure if it would actually be effective since I haven’t been on PTS yet. That and major brutality will be redundant on 95% of builds that already get it from a different/better source.

Royalthought

Cloak > Invis Pot
Fear > Turn evil
Shade > Temporal gaurd
Incap > Onslaught

Its getting to where you can turn any class into a nightblade while still having that class unique abilities.

Nightblade has had most of its flavor stripped and shared without much in return.

Vlad9425

Great, in the next few updates don't be surprised if cloak makes it into the Mages Guild skill line or some crap.

akray21

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

The new DW ability is more like the first Silver Leash. Nothing like Ambush.

Except the animation is exactly the same.