Entropy changes

Iron_Blurr

I like that they are trying to make the morphs of entropy more useful but i suggest they make 1 morph a dot with hot attached and make the other morph a pure stat buffing ability and leave the max health passive on it.

I dont think we need 2 dps morphs for entropy. I think one should remain useful to tanks or healers. Obviously dps will choose the morph with the highest damage and ignore the healing one making it a dead skill again. If a dps needs to slot a self heal they are better off slotting a burst heal instead of some weird heal over time that you have to activate on an enemy.

Structured entropy was nice because the max health bonus allowed for some situational flexibility in your build. As a tank you can throw it on when you need a little bit more health and take it off when you dont without changing up your entire build.

Again i like the fact that dps are getting a viable morph but lets be honest here. They dont need both morphs tailored to them when only one of them will ever be used.

Iron_Blurr

We already have things like inner light that can be slotted for passive buffs for mag.
Also slotting any fighters guild ability boosts weapon damage for stamina build.
Sorcs have bound aegis and bound armaments for mag and stam passive buffs.
Why cant we have something like structured entropy for a passive health bonus?

Arciris

They have decided no more passive utility attached to skills.
Why? I don't know. It seems completely arbitrary.

I suspect this is only a first step.
More skills will follow.

Personally, I don't like it. It removes Freedom of choice from players and forces everyone to actively use all skills in a game that is getting more and more Arthritis inducing.

So if you are not completely nuts in love with mashing buttons, these are bad news.

Iron_Blurr

I hope they don't change inner light.. You might be right though. They are changing the flawless dawnbreaker passive as well.

jypcy

Isn’t damage the same on both morphs though? One gives sustain, the other gives a hot. I think degeneration will be the far more popular morph if the buffed skill is even worth the bar space, but I could see the hot morph being useful for say magicka necro that doesn’t have access to effective dps/healing hybrid skills like most (all?) other mag classes do.

Iron_Blurr

jypcy wrote: »

Isn’t damage the same on both morphs though? One gives sustain, the other gives a hot. I think degeneration will be the far more popular morph if the buffed skill is even worth the bar space, but I could see the hot morph being useful for say magicka necro that doesn’t have access to effective dps/healing hybrid skills like most (all?) other mag classes do.

Do you honestly think the sustain is useful enough to justify using that ability? If you want to save mag you're better off not even casting it or spending the 1 global cooldown to cast spell symmetry instead. My point is there are already other opinions for mag sustain. But there are literally no other max health passives that are available to all classes.

wheem_ESO

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

jypcy wrote: »

Isn’t damage the same on both morphs though? One gives sustain, the other gives a hot. I think degeneration will be the far more popular morph if the buffed skill is even worth the bar space, but I could see the hot morph being useful for say magicka necro that doesn’t have access to effective dps/healing hybrid skills like most (all?) other mag classes do.

Do you honestly think the sustain is useful enough to justify using that ability? If you want to save mag you're better off not even casting it or spending the 1 global cooldown to cast spell symmetry instead. My point is there are already other opinions for mag sustain. But there are literally no other max health passives that are available to all classes.

The sustain might be quite useful in PvP, depending on just how big the HOT is on the other morph. I'd rather not see nerfs to worthwhile PvP skills just so some PvE tanks can get a HP boost some of the time, in fairly niche situations.

Iron_Blurr

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

jypcy wrote: »

Isn’t damage the same on both morphs though? One gives sustain, the other gives a hot. I think degeneration will be the far more popular morph if the buffed skill is even worth the bar space, but I could see the hot morph being useful for say magicka necro that doesn’t have access to effective dps/healing hybrid skills like most (all?) other mag classes do.

Do you honestly think the sustain is useful enough to justify using that ability? If you want to save mag you're better off not even casting it or spending the 1 global cooldown to cast spell symmetry instead. My point is there are already other opinions for mag sustain. But there are literally no other max health passives that are available to all classes.

The sustain might be quite useful in PvP, depending on just how big the HOT is on the other morph. I'd rather not see nerfs to worthwhile PvP skills just so some PvE tanks can get a HP boost some of the time, in fairly niche situations.

I could say the same thing about pvp builds. Id rather not see the one and only max health passive ability get changed so some pvp players that cant sustain can use this ability sometimes. That's not really an argument for why it should be changed when we all know no one is going to use the proposed skill in pvp for sustain.

jypcy

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

jypcy wrote: »

Isn’t damage the same on both morphs though? One gives sustain, the other gives a hot. I think degeneration will be the far more popular morph if the buffed skill is even worth the bar space, but I could see the hot morph being useful for say magicka necro that doesn’t have access to effective dps/healing hybrid skills like most (all?) other mag classes do.

Do you honestly think the sustain is useful enough to justify using that ability? If you want to save mag you're better off not even casting it or spending the 1 global cooldown to cast spell symmetry instead. My point is there are already other opinions for mag sustain. But there are literally no other max health passives that are available to all classes.

As said, it’s use will be determined by how effective the skill is after a buff. I don’t expect I’ll be able to hop on the PTS until later this week, so from my impressions of the patch notes it seems like a lot of ST dots were buffed and might now yield higher parses than their nerfed aoe dot counterparts. Plus with the overall standardization initiative, if magdps are going to replace their class aoe dots with a ST one and their options are all standardized, I’m probably going to go with the one that helps sustain.

That’s my reasoning for why the morph might be popular, anyway, but until I see numbers I’m just speculating (because I’m too lazy to work out the math from the patch notes ).

I grant that i used structured on some tank builds while learning the role, but I’d say it’s been years since that had a place on any of my characters’ bars. So based on my time spent primarily on tanks and magdps, I prefer to have the options for magdps— again, if the dot is even worth slotting. If not, I’d happily have one morph left as a tanky option.

Iron_Blurr

I guess i just don't see why mag dps need both morphs tailored to them. If the damage is good they will use the sustain one. No matter what the healing morph will not be reliable in situations where you need a strong heal to save you so whats the point?

wheem_ESO

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

jypcy wrote: »

Isn’t damage the same on both morphs though? One gives sustain, the other gives a hot. I think degeneration will be the far more popular morph if the buffed skill is even worth the bar space, but I could see the hot morph being useful for say magicka necro that doesn’t have access to effective dps/healing hybrid skills like most (all?) other mag classes do.

Do you honestly think the sustain is useful enough to justify using that ability? If you want to save mag you're better off not even casting it or spending the 1 global cooldown to cast spell symmetry instead. My point is there are already other opinions for mag sustain. But there are literally no other max health passives that are available to all classes.

The sustain might be quite useful in PvP, depending on just how big the HOT is on the other morph. I'd rather not see nerfs to worthwhile PvP skills just so some PvE tanks can get a HP boost some of the time, in fairly niche situations.

I could say the same thing about pvp builds. Id rather not see the one and only max health passive ability get changed so some pvp players that cant sustain can use this ability sometimes. That's not really an argument for why it should be changed when we all know no one is going to use the proposed skill in pvp for sustain.

If anything, I sort of expect the HOT morph to be the least used, since I doubt that the healing will be very strong. And with how bad Magicka Necromancer's sustain is in PvP, I'm definitely interested in the Magicka-return morph. If ZOS surprises me, and the alternative's HOT is really strong, then it might be worthwhile instead.

PvE tanks aren't losing some major, important ability through the changes to Entropy. If you'd like to find some ability that's only used in PvP once-in-a-blue-moon, and argue that it should be given a passive +HP bonus and lose whatever minor PvP value it had, I may very well support you.

Vercingetorix

Why not move Major Sorcery to Inner Light so it's no longer a dead skill on the bar and ZoS can focus on making Entropy a strictly DPS skill with two morphs that offer different bonus effects?

Ragnaroek93

Entropy looks very useful for magicka players in PvP right now, especially on classes which lack a good skill which grants major sorcery like magnb for example. Saying it's bad or that the heal is useless for dps is a very limited point of view which breaks as soon as you stop looking exclusive at group PvE.

Iron_Blurr

I guess im not really attached to it being specifically entropy that needs to have the max health buff on it. But in general i dont think pve players should be forced to pvp to get useful skills. And i dont think pvpers should have to go collect lore books to get a useful tool for them. I do like the idea of giving inner light some passive buff but i would prefer it not be sorcery. There are already so many sources of major sorcery. I wish we had a source of major intellect besides spell power potions for mag dps. At least that would offer some flexibility for mag dps since they will be able to run other potions and even tanks can slot something like inner light for 20% more mag regen. Right now major intellect is petty much unattainable for a tank unless they use spell power pots

Iron_Blurr

Maybe they could give the other morph of inner light a max health passive on par with the max mag inner light gives. Throw on major intellect while slotted and im sure every tank in the game would be happy without mag dps losing anything relevant.

Kolzki

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Why not move Major Sorcery to Inner Light so it's no longer a dead skill on the bar and ZoS can focus on making Entropy a strictly DPS skill with two morphs that offer different bonus effects?

Because putting the two most important damage buffs onto the same skill might be a little op?

jypcy

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

I guess i just don't see why mag dps need both morphs tailored to them. If the damage is good they will use the sustain one. No matter what the healing morph will not be reliable in situations where you need a strong heal to save you so whats the point?

Point is I think a passive, dps-oriented hot is good to have for any build that currently lacks one, e.g., magcro (and I wouldn’t mind one for magdk too although they do have burning embers which is alright for that purpose). If my health takes a big hit, I can shield while the hot replenishes the missing health.

Additionally, while I don’t think the passive health boost is all that necessary, wouldn’t it be better to have on a skill that’s more tank oriented anyway? That way you wouldn’t even need to slot this one morph of a skill in some select situations, you might just end up having it on your bar all the time. Blood altar is a potential candidate just off the top of my head.

Edit to add another post:

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

I guess im not really attached to it being specifically entropy that needs to have the max health buff on it. But in general i dont think pve players should be forced to pvp to get useful skills. And i dont think pvpers should have to go collect lore books to get a useful tool for them. I do like the idea of giving inner light some passive buff but i would prefer it not be sorcery. There are already so many sources of major sorcery. I wish we had a source of major intellect besides spell power potions for mag dps. At least that would offer some flexibility for mag dps since they will be able to run other potions and even tanks can slot something like inner light for 20% more mag regen. Right now major intellect is petty much unattainable for a tank unless they use spell power pots

What pots are you running on your tanks? I thought tripots were still the standard, which afaik still give major intellect.

wheem_ESO

Kolzki wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Why not move Major Sorcery to Inner Light so it's no longer a dead skill on the bar and ZoS can focus on making Entropy a strictly DPS skill with two morphs that offer different bonus effects?

Because putting the two most important damage buffs onto the same skill might be a little op?

Might be OP in PvE, and would definitely be too expensive in PvP unless the duration was amazing.

Kolzki

It would be a bit weird with the health cost, but wouldn’t it make more sense to put the health buff on spell symmetry? A skill that tank’s actually have a use for.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

The skills damage is the same on both morphs. The hot is always there but the sustain is dependent on you like attacking the mob you cast the skill on. I prefer the hot version myself.

Iron_Blurr

That's actually a good idea. Placing a health buff on spell sym or balance would help make it easier to run and offset the health cost. Maybe have one morph offer passive max health and activating it reduces the cost of mag abilities and restores mag or something. The other morph could be balance with the 30 second armor buffs. Interesting idea tbh

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

the damage from this skill is crazy. such a good dot now.