Skills that no one will use anymore

fred4

Let me start:

Harness Magicka: If I read this correctly: Chance to return up to 3 x 5% = 15% of the cost, while being capped at 40% health. On live it can yield a magicka surplus, if fully procced. This will IMO be a dead morph. Dampen is way superior.

Healing Ward: Dead for PvP. All players will replace it with Mutagen or Rapid Regen. Will it still be useful in PvE? With a Blackrose resto? Let me know. It will have to compete with a vMA resto, which can be used to indirectly buff your spell damage and, thus, your heals, by having better sustain.

SaucyMcSauceface

In PvE: Razor Caltrops. 60% nerf to dot damage, 100% nerf to initial damage, and superfluous fracture that is provided by the tank anyway.

irubloodflowers

fred4 wrote: »

Let me start:

Harness Magicka: If I read this correctly: Chance to return up to 3 x 5% = 15% of the cost, while being capped at 40% health. On live it can yield a magicka surplus, if fully procced. This will IMO be a dead morph. Dampen is way superior.

ZOS_Gina wrote:

Harness Magicka (morph): This morph no longer returns 3% of your Max Magicka when absorbing spell attacks. Instead, it restores 5% of the ability’s cost whenever it absorbs any damage. Note this value continues to increase per piece of Light Armor worn, and can still only occur up to 3 times per cast.

Restores 5% of Ability cost per Light Armor piece when absorbing damage, up to 3 times.
A classic 5/1/1 would restore 25% of ability cost, up to 3 times. Meaning it restores 25-75% of Ability Cost.
At 17000 Health the shield will be absorbing 6800 damage in PvE, so in most cases the return will be 25% or 50%.
In PvP I imagine it varies wildly, if facing a MagDK who throws a ton of fire dots on you it will probably return 75% of the cost.
But if you use it when you are at 25% health and are facing a Stam 2h build I imagine the new Executioner will finish the shield in one hit, or two tops.

SaintSubwayy

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

In PvE: Razor Caltrops. 60% nerf to dot damage, 100% nerf to initial damage, and superfluous fracture that is provided by the tank anyway.

jeah caltrpos will prob become completly useless then...not even talking about staminas overall, since also volley and dawnbreaker are going to be scrapped imo.

Worst Patch i have seen so far for PVE since Morrowind dropped.

fred4

OK, if Harness indeed works that way, it will still be OK. They're just trying to curb it's effectiveness with magicka-stacking builds.

In large / mixed fights, in PvP, Harness tends to be very effective. However I use Dampen. It's precisely because of glass cannon stamblades, who otherwise tend to overwhelm you whether you are in execute range or not.

MLGProPlayer

The entire magicka warden class (for the 20 or so people that used it before this patch).

Seraphayel

fred4 wrote: »

Healing Ward: Dead for PvP. All players will replace it with Mutagen or Rapid Regen. Will it still be useful in PvE? With a Blackrose resto? Let me know. It will have to compete with a vMA resto, which can be used to indirectly buff your spell damage and, thus, your heals, by having better sustain.

I think the changes to Healing Ward are great for PvP especially when paired with another instance of a strong HoT like RR or even Mutagen. The change was something long requested by players to give Healing Ward a HoT component of the remaining shield strength which ZOS basically did. The nerf from 300% to 100% scaling might be a bit too much but the added HoT component is great.

The Soul Strike nerf is concerning, they almost doubled the cost. The duration change is okay as they effectively increased overall damage in the end (if my quick calculation is right), but going from 100 -> 175 Ultimate?

Narvuntien

I am dropping Eruption from my MagDK its got an awful animation that means with 300 ping I think I haven't cast it and accidentally double tap the thing. With the cost nerf I can't afford to double cast the thing because it would nuke my mana more than it already does.

I'll use spiked armor or something instead.

Strider__Roshin

Seraphayel wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Healing Ward: Dead for PvP. All players will replace it with Mutagen or Rapid Regen. Will it still be useful in PvE? With a Blackrose resto? Let me know. It will have to compete with a vMA resto, which can be used to indirectly buff your spell damage and, thus, your heals, by having better sustain.

I think the changes to Healing Ward are great for PvP especially when paired with another instance of a strong HoT like RR or even Mutagen. The change was something long requested by players to give Healing Ward a HoT component of the remaining shield strength which ZOS basically did. The nerf from 300% to 100% scaling might be a bit too much but the added HoT component is great.

The Soul Strike nerf is concerning, they almost doubled the cost. The duration change is okay as they effectively increased overall damage in the end (if my quick calculation is right), but going from 100 -> 175 Ultimate?

Yeah they made it like the bow ultimate except the bow ultimate actually has counterplay

FrancisCrawford

Sorcerer shields are going to be pointless in group PvE, because their benefit of also protecting pets is irrelevant there.

Turelus

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

In PvE: Razor Caltrops. 60% nerf to dot damage, 100% nerf to initial damage, and superfluous fracture that is provided by the tank anyway.

TBH, this was always meant to be a PvP skill. Making it less relevant in PvE might be a good thing as PvE players don't have to go grind for it in PvP again.
However, there should be an alternative which can be slotted and acquired from PvE.

ZarkingFrued

No one good ever relied on the magicka return of harness. It just made it easier so you may as well slot it. I think it will still be used. If nothing else and if all the forum crybabies managed to actually kill sorc this time were just gonna make pvp tanks that streak around and you can't dodge or kill just to troll you guys in pvp all day. We won't be able to kill you, but good luck catching a tank on a streak binge

Tommy_The_Gun

Not a skill but if it goes live I doubt it will be used in any type of eso content (aside from RP that is):
Pack Leader.

fred4

Seraphayel wrote: »

I think the changes to Healing Ward are great for PvP especially when paired with another instance of a strong HoT like RR or even Mutagen. The change was something long requested by players to give Healing Ward a HoT component of the remaining shield strength which ZOS basically did. The nerf from 300% to 100% scaling might be a bit too much but the added HoT component is great.

The nerf to 100% is what I was thinking about. Basically the shield will be gone in 1 GCD and it will never heal.

It depends on the build I suppose. If you are a sorc or you are heavily magicka-stacking to 50K+, you can probably protect the ward with another shield, but in that case you probably don't have a problem in the current patch either. Next patch, if your other shield holds, you're probably better off with Rapid Regen / Mutagen.

What I'm thinking about, specifically, is a non-magicka stacking magblade, the spec that was arguably hardest hit by the original Healing Ward nerf. I am currently running Dampen + Healing Ward on my magblade for lack of alternatives. If I manage to Cloak or Shade or LoS, fine, but ... fine anyway. On the other hand, if I want to stay in the fight, my shields are pathetic and useless. I can cast Dampen, Healing Ward, Dampen, Healing Ward, ... What does it accomplish? Against noobs it helps. Against experienced players it typically only breaks even. Get CCd and you're toast. Against a single full-on duelling spec stamblade or magsorc or, say, a magsorc in Imperial Physique, you basically just get annihilated. Shields are too small.

I suppose you will say, Fred, why don't you stack your Merciless or wear a defensive set. It's true. There are some options in the current patch to improve shields. I am now wearing Buffer of the Swift. I have not duelled a top-tier sorc lately. Last time I did that, though, I found them impossible to fight on account of their sheer amount of damage. I should clarify that's on my open world spec.

Tavore1138

Flying blade - a ranged skill that needs you to do a melee hit to trigger it's bonus while costing more, doing less damage and already having lost snare. Lunacy presumably from the person that bought you Grim Focus - the expensive skill that does nothing.

Sharee

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Flying blade - a ranged skill that needs you to do a melee hit to trigger it's bonus while costing more, doing less damage and already having lost snare. Lunacy presumably from the person that bought you Grim Focus - the expensive skill that does nothing.

You look at it wrong. Flying blade is now the DW gap closer, with brutality attached. Free after first use, too.

Derra

fred4 wrote: »

Let me start:

Harness Magicka: If I read this correctly: Chance to return up to 3 x 5% = 15% of the cost, while being capped at 40% health. On live it can yield a magicka surplus, if fully procced. This will IMO be a dead morph. Dampen is way superior.

Healing Ward: Dead for PvP. All players will replace it with Mutagen or Rapid Regen. Will it still be useful in PvE? With a Blackrose resto? Let me know. It will have to compete with a vMA resto, which can be used to indirectly buff your spell damage and, thus, your heals, by having better sustain.

100% agree on harness. The light armor increase currently only works based on the amoutn returned. If that continues it would be 15% basecost refunded + an additional 30% of that 15 - not worth it at all.
Harness sustain needed to die though. I´m hoping for a complete rework in the future because as it stands it won´t be worth it to use over dampen ever.

Healing ward imo heavily depends on how the healing portion works. If it has a 0s healing tick it might work out fine esp when combined with dampen or hardened. If it starts healing after 1s only it won´t be worth using most likely.

SaucyMcSauceface

checked the numbers for buff on deadly cloak, looks like a close replacement for caltrops

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

checked the numbers for buff on deadly cloak, looks like a close replacement for caltrops

All AOE dots are going to be about the same now.

Endless hail got a 45% nerf.

Seraphayel

fred4 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I think the changes to Healing Ward are great for PvP especially when paired with another instance of a strong HoT like RR or even Mutagen. The change was something long requested by players to give Healing Ward a HoT component of the remaining shield strength which ZOS basically did. The nerf from 300% to 100% scaling might be a bit too much but the added HoT component is great.

The nerf to 100% is what I was thinking about. Basically the shield will be gone in 1 GCD and it will never heal.

It depends on the build I suppose. If you are a sorc or you are heavily magicka-stacking to 50K+, you can probably protect the ward with another shield, but in that case you probably don't have a problem in the current patch either. Next patch, if your other shield holds, you're probably better off with Rapid Regen / Mutagen.

What I'm thinking about, specifically, is a non-magicka stacking magblade, the spec that was arguably hardest hit by the original Healing Ward nerf. I am currently running Dampen + Healing Ward on my magblade for lack of alternatives. If I manage to Cloak or Shade or LoS, fine, but ... fine anyway. On the other hand, if I want to stay in the fight, my shields are pathetic and useless. I can cast Dampen, Healing Ward, Dampen, Healing Ward, ... What does it accomplish? Against noobs it helps. Against experienced players it typically only breaks even. Get CCd and you're toast. Against a single full-on duelling spec stamblade or magsorc or, say, a magsorc in Imperial Physique, you basically just get annihilated. Shields are too small.

I suppose you will say, Fred, why don't you stack your Merciless or wear a defensive set. It's true. There are some options in the current patch to improve shields. I am now wearing Buffer of the Swift. I have not duelled a top-tier sorc lately. Last time I did that, though, I found them impossible to fight on account of their sheer amount of damage. I should clarify that's on my open world spec.

Yeah protecting your Healing Ward with another shield might be a solution but is it a good one? I don't know. What I don't understand is the incredible buff to Vigor. It's basically Regeneration on steroids not bound to any weapon.

Derra wrote: »

Healing ward imo heavily depends on how the healing portion works. If it has a 0s healing tick it might work out fine esp when combined with dampen or hardened. If it starts healing after 1s only it won´t be worth using most likely.

Mhm I don't expect it to heal at application (=0s). Once every second for a shield that gets removed quite quickly sounds a bit slow. Maybe once every 0.5s for 15% of the remaining shield strength would have been better overall, it's hard to tell yet.

Lylith

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Flying blade - a ranged skill that needs you to do a melee hit to trigger it's bonus while costing more, doing less damage and already having lost snare. Lunacy presumably from the person that bought you Grim Focus - the expensive skill that does nothing.

seems to be a trend, more skills falling under that heading while what remains becomes increasingly generic between classes.

akray21

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

In PvE: Razor Caltrops. 60% nerf to dot damage, 100% nerf to initial damage, and superfluous fracture that is provided by the tank anyway.

Might he used for trash pulls or Veteran 4 man arenas. But yeah, I'm pretty upset about this change.

NBrookus

Seraphayel wrote: »

Yeah protecting your Healing Ward with another shield might be a solution but is it a good one? I don't know.

That was the old old solution for sorcs.

It feels like Ward is for sorcs who drop Twilight. Right now unless you want to be edgy, in PVP there's really no case for not to running a pet sorc. Dropping the pet and going back to a shield stack (layered the correct way) will open some build diversity.

With the changes over time to shield stacking, it won't be the insane stacks magsorcs had back in the day, but could be viable for sure.

CP5

Turelus wrote: »

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

In PvE: Razor Caltrops. 60% nerf to dot damage, 100% nerf to initial damage, and superfluous fracture that is provided by the tank anyway.

TBH, this was always meant to be a PvP skill. Making it less relevant in PvE might be a good thing as PvE players don't have to go grind for it in PvP again.
However, there should be an alternative which can be slotted and acquired from PvE.

The original caltrops was a super expensive massive aoe dot for pvp and it was changed to suit pve since I don't seem to recall it having ever been used there. Changing a skill that found a home to try to get it into an other (which I honestly doubt many people would use this new one much in pvp) isn't the best idea.

As for the op, what are peoples thoughts on flare now with its cost nearly tripled?

Derra

Derra wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Let me start:

Harness Magicka: If I read this correctly: Chance to return up to 3 x 5% = 15% of the cost, while being capped at 40% health. On live it can yield a magicka surplus, if fully procced. This will IMO be a dead morph. Dampen is way superior.

Healing Ward: Dead for PvP. All players will replace it with Mutagen or Rapid Regen. Will it still be useful in PvE? With a Blackrose resto? Let me know. It will have to compete with a vMA resto, which can be used to indirectly buff your spell damage and, thus, your heals, by having better sustain.

100% agree on harness. The light armor increase currently only works based on the amoutn returned. If that continues it would be 15% basecost refunded + an additional 30% of that 15 - not worth it at all.
Harness sustain needed to die though. I´m hoping for a complete rework in the future because as it stands it won´t be worth it to use over dampen ever.

Healing ward imo heavily depends on how the healing portion works. If it has a 0s healing tick it might work out fine esp when combined with dampen or hardened. If it starts healing after 1s only it won´t be worth using most likely.

healing ward is definetly still worth it - esp with blackrose.

jediodyn_ESO

Werewolf.

Bleed damage nerfed
Werewolf bleed damage additionally nerfed
Werewolf heavy and light attack dmg nerfed
Howl of agony nerfed
Pack leader needed pets fixed (gj) but...
Pack leader bleed removed (lol overkill)
Werewolf claws bleeds nerfed
Werewolf heal super nerfed
Almost EVERYTHING costs 25% more stam

Psst. Werewolves can’t bar swap to defense/support/buffs and don’t get an ultimate (because WW is supposed to “be” the ultimate!)

Why use Werewolf when anyone can do more damage, get more kills, have more survivability and support with your class skills and a good old dawnbreaker?

Way to turn Werewolf into a role player only thing again... because they’re back to being a joke in PvE and a free kill in pvp.

Pet nerf and overall change to bleeds would have been enough for this patch. Way to fix a thumbtack with a sledgehammer. Play your own freaking game or get better advisors.

BrokenGameMechanics

Sharee wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Flying blade - a ranged skill that needs you to do a melee hit to trigger it's bonus while costing more, doing less damage and already having lost snare. Lunacy presumably from the person that bought you Grim Focus - the expensive skill that does nothing.

You look at it wrong. Flying blade is now the DW gap closer, with brutality attached. Free after first use, too.

This ^^^.

You can already follow a Sorc streak for streak with S&B Shield Invasion. Now DW can do it as well, though I suspect you'll have to be darn fast on the double throws required which is why they took it off the GCD.

I really, really wish they offered something, anything other then Major Brutality. AFAIK everyone gets it from somewhere else cheap and easy. Stamden for example always has Netch up hence Major Brutality constantly. It would make it special if instead you got Minor XXX such as Force, Fracture, Maim, Defile or Vuln. for a few seconds.

md3788

Wall of elements. It now makes more sense to use unstable wall.