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PvE Tanks are looking good this patch, if nothing else

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msalvia
msalvia
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Healers and DPS are gonna have to readjust, but pve tanking sure looks like it got a buff this patch. SnB damage is nerfed, but everything is cheaper (and buff / bebuffs longer), and I don't really see any major hits to the toolbox--we even got a true weapon-based damage shield!

That said, gear is gonna be an open-question--I doubt Alkosh is gonna be as good (yet another reason overall dps is gonna plummet). And the healer changes are gonna make use build even more for self-sustain. Biggest challenge I foresee is those terrible pugs (i.e. 75% of them) with the group doing 20k are gonna be closer to 15k...
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  • paulsimonps
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    I've seen talks of tanks having to run orbs if changes stay the same as people will really not want to self sustain like that as it will drain a lot of DPS. That said, if the speed reduction and tick frequency increase is enough for it to deal a good amount of damage then we might see mag DPS running it as well, but don't know numbers until tomorrow. And Alkosh is still very much so doable without Orb spam. Templar healers will still be able to precision throw shards to the tanks for example and so that synergy won't really go anywhere for them.
    PC-NA-EP
    Luna Hlaalu - DK TANK
    Officer of Fear is Failure
    Full Explanation of Damage Mitigation
    Buff and Debuff List
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  • msalvia
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    Yeah, templar healers will be able to supply our alkosh (albeit less consistently). Other classes, not so much. What it's really going to be is dps getting chewed out for taking the tank's orb / shard / whatever.

    And tanks don't need to do damage. If people complain about tank damage output, they're doing it wrong (pvp excepted, of course; RIP tanky meta in pvp).

    But yeah, overland stuff is gonna be even more tedious as a tank, that's for sure.
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  • Nemesis7884
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    thats why im advocating into turning powerslam into an avtually usefull skill anyone will use, for example applying minor vulnerabiliy
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  • paulsimonps
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    Eraldus wrote: »
    paulsimonps wrote: »
    Eraldus wrote: »
    Tanks will now take more time to kill stuff, because their already average damage got reduced even further for no reason. SnB got two skills heavily nerfed, while we got a single damage based shield skill and we can now spam our skills longer, since everything will take longer to kill!

    GREAT CHANGES INDEED! YAY FOR DIVERSITY!

    I mean I don't think they intend for people to do overworld content as a tank....

    I don't know what that has to do with anything I said... Of course tanking is for dungeons only, and those nerfs will just reduce even more the low damage from SnB builds who are doing overland quests and such.

    Unless you're unironically suggesting people to not use SnB while playing overland, on a game that's supposed to give you the freedom to play as you see fit, because if that's the case... then just lol.

    I feel like some people here thinks that just because a character wears a shield, that he should just be a punching bag and only block... is this how you played your SnB characters in Oblivion or Skyrim?

    Problem is that this is not Oblivion or Skyrim, and yes I do suggest not using SnB in overland cause the supposed freedom of this game is and always has been a pipe dream and a half assed one at that.

    An Axe and a Shield was a very common weapon through out history and it was a deadly combo, and in many single player RPGs its a perfectly viable option to play with, however this is a MMO and as such has to be balanced way differently. So sadly to conform to the standards that is set by the game and the genre SnB should not deal a lot of damage and should not be a viable DPS option as its defensiveness combined with strong damage makes it overperform. The skill line is pact with debuffs, and defensive passives, it should not also deal significant damage.

    One Handed and Shield skill line should be a Tanking and Defensive/Supportive skill line and not a viable Damage Dealing alternative. (Though that does not mean you can't run it off bar in PvP for the defensive/support option with DPS on front)
    PC-NA-EP
    Luna Hlaalu - DK TANK
    Officer of Fear is Failure
    Full Explanation of Damage Mitigation
    Buff and Debuff List
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  • msalvia
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    I'm not arguing that SnB shouldn't be a tank based playstyle, because that is what it's mostly intended to be, I'm just saying the damage nerf was too extreme, when there is already a large gap between SnB and other offensive playstyles.[/quote]

    Not at all true; see pvp for the past year, where the most defensive weapon (SnB) has been the best offensive weapon. And for pve, you aren't choosing SnB for damage--it's for tanks. Just like you don't use a bow as a healer. Nerfing the damage on SnB is one of the best-balanced changes in this patch (a low bar, to be sure). Plain and simple, if you're a pve dps using SnB, you are being carried.

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  • paulsimonps
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    Eraldus wrote: »
    paulsimonps wrote: »
    Eraldus wrote: »
    paulsimonps wrote: »
    Eraldus wrote: »
    Tanks will now take more time to kill stuff, because their already average damage got reduced even further for no reason. SnB got two skills heavily nerfed, while we got a single damage based shield skill and we can now spam our skills longer, since everything will take longer to kill!

    GREAT CHANGES INDEED! YAY FOR DIVERSITY!

    I mean I don't think they intend for people to do overworld content as a tank....

    I don't know what that has to do with anything I said... Of course tanking is for dungeons only, and those nerfs will just reduce even more the low damage from SnB builds who are doing overland quests and such.

    Unless you're unironically suggesting people to not use SnB while playing overland, on a game that's supposed to give you the freedom to play as you see fit, because if that's the case... then just lol.

    I feel like some people here thinks that just because a character wears a shield, that he should just be a punching bag and only block... is this how you played your SnB characters in Oblivion or Skyrim?

    Problem is that this is not Oblivion or Skyrim, and yes I do suggest not using SnB in overland cause the supposed freedom of this game is and always has been a pipe dream and a half assed one at that.

    An Axe and a Shield was a very common weapon through out history and it was a deadly combo, and in many single player RPGs its a perfectly viable option to play with, however this is a MMO and as such has to be balanced way differently. So sadly to conform to the standards that is set by the game and the genre SnB should not deal a lot of damage and should not be a viable DPS option as its defensiveness combined with strong damage makes it overperform. The skill line is pact with debuffs, and defensive passives, it should not also deal significant damage.

    One Handed and Shield skill line should be a Tanking and Defensive/Supportive skill line and not a viable Damage Dealing alternative. (Though that does not mean you can't run it off bar in PvP for the defensive/support option with DPS on front)

    But that the thing: SnB already has average damage and kills slower than any melee playstyle, so why make it worse?

    I'm not arguing that SnB shouldn't be a tank based playstyle, because that is what it's mostly intended to be, I'm just saying the damage nerf was too extreme, when there is already a large gap between SnB and other offensive playstyles.

    PvP'ers would disagree.
    PC-NA-EP
    Luna Hlaalu - DK TANK
    Officer of Fear is Failure
    Full Explanation of Damage Mitigation
    Buff and Debuff List
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  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Imagine thinking s/b doesn't have DPS skills with power slam and deep slash changes coming.
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  • idk
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    paulsimonps wrote: »
    I've seen talks of tanks having to run orbs if changes stay the same as people will really not want to self sustain like that as it will drain a lot of DPS. That said, if the speed reduction and tick frequency increase is enough for it to deal a good amount of damage then we might see mag DPS running it as well, but don't know numbers until tomorrow. And Alkosh is still very much so doable without Orb spam. Templar healers will still be able to precision throw shards to the tanks for example and so that synergy won't really go anywhere for them.

    As tanks we have run orbs before. Another issue is a reduction in available synergies which is something Zos has been reducing over the past couple years.
    Really, idk
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  • quadraxis666
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    Tank NEEDED to be buffed in this patch, given that all other roles just had cucumbers forced up their asses. Tanks gotta work harder now. A lot harder. This is really going to weed out the crappier tanks, and a lot of those crappier tanks are running around in alkosh without the skill to survive in it now, so I can only imagine the horrors to come. Then again with less synergies available after this patch maybe they'll drop it.

    Let's however not forget that we're having defensive posture's passive taken away, and we can only get it back by using the other morph and actually using the skill, not just having it slotted. Going to miss using mobs as healers....
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  • msalvia
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    Well this game is not based solely on PVP alone... In fact, PVP is not even the main focus of players in this game, and I'm sure there are better ways to fix whatever PVP issue people are having with SnB, instead of screwing tanks like this.[/quote]

    PvE tanks are getting a buff in this patch. How do you see this as screwing tanks? We're gonna do less damage (who cares) but our resources are easier to sustain (basically everything is cheaper to cast and lasts longer). Lots of complain about this patch, but PvE tanking ain't one of em.
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  • ZeroXFF
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    I know someone who will not be happy about the changes to the heavy armor active skill. And honestly, I love the new block effectiveness buff, but did the snare really have to be? Doesn't feel like I could use it for anything but the dragon breath in vSS.
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  • xaraan
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    Eraldus wrote: »
    paulsimonps wrote: »
    Eraldus wrote: »
    Tanks will now take more time to kill stuff, because their already average damage got reduced even further for no reason. SnB got two skills heavily nerfed, while we got a single damage based shield skill and we can now spam our skills longer, since everything will take longer to kill!

    GREAT CHANGES INDEED! YAY FOR DIVERSITY!

    I mean I don't think they intend for people to do overworld content as a tank....

    I don't know what that has to do with anything I said... Of course tanking is for dungeons only, and those nerfs will just reduce even more the low damage from SnB builds who are doing overland quests and such.

    Unless you're unironically suggesting people to not use SnB while playing overland, on a game that's supposed to give you the freedom to play as you see fit, because if that's the case... then just lol.

    I feel like some people here thinks that just because a character wears a shield, that he should just be a punching bag and only block... is this how you played your SnB characters in Oblivion or Skyrim?

    Playing as you want doesn't mean just b/c you want to play a certain way it has to be equal to every other way.

    If you want to play S/B overland as your 'damage' weapon, then you are wanting to play in a less efficient way - even before these changes. I've tanked since launch, well before changes to ice staff and such and would always run a destro staff for doing damage when I wanted to do questing (which also meant it was all leveled for ice staff when those changes rolled out).

    Nothing in the changes to S/B will hurt PvE tanking, mostly will only prevent those HA/S&B builds in pvp from being both super tanky and doing a lot of damage. Despite anyone wanting to play a certain way, in a multiplayer game, there should be balance and no, you should not be super tanky and do great damage at same time, if you can, then everyone would and you wouldn't even be needed as s tank period.
    NA • PC • AD • Characters (Argonian Tanks, Khajiit StamDD, Breton MagDD):
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    Wardens: Shield of the North: Xaraanodon, Guardian of the Green: Xaraan-jo, Master Angler: Xäraan
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  • xeNNNNN
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    paulsimonps wrote: »
    Eraldus wrote: »
    Tanks will now take more time to kill stuff, because their already average damage got reduced even further for no reason. SnB got two skills heavily nerfed, while we got a single damage based shield skill and we can now spam our skills longer, since everything will take longer to kill!

    GREAT CHANGES INDEED! YAY FOR DIVERSITY!

    I mean I don't think they intend for people to do overworld content as a tank....

    To be honest there are a lot of tanks that do it just purely for the challenge. Its easy to push through overland on a DPS or even a healer but a tank? Yeah that takes a while and some pretty hefty commitment if they run pure tank.

    All that solo role play haha. I kinda respect it tbh.
    Ah, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.
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  • xeNNNNN
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    paulsimonps wrote: »
    Eraldus wrote: »
    paulsimonps wrote: »
    Eraldus wrote: »
    paulsimonps wrote: »
    Eraldus wrote: »
    Tanks will now take more time to kill stuff, because their already average damage got reduced even further for no reason. SnB got two skills heavily nerfed, while we got a single damage based shield skill and we can now spam our skills longer, since everything will take longer to kill!

    GREAT CHANGES INDEED! YAY FOR DIVERSITY!

    I mean I don't think they intend for people to do overworld content as a tank....

    I don't know what that has to do with anything I said... Of course tanking is for dungeons only, and those nerfs will just reduce even more the low damage from SnB builds who are doing overland quests and such.

    Unless you're unironically suggesting people to not use SnB while playing overland, on a game that's supposed to give you the freedom to play as you see fit, because if that's the case... then just lol.

    I feel like some people here thinks that just because a character wears a shield, that he should just be a punching bag and only block... is this how you played your SnB characters in Oblivion or Skyrim?

    Problem is that this is not Oblivion or Skyrim, and yes I do suggest not using SnB in overland cause the supposed freedom of this game is and always has been a pipe dream and a half assed one at that.

    An Axe and a Shield was a very common weapon through out history and it was a deadly combo, and in many single player RPGs its a perfectly viable option to play with, however this is a MMO and as such has to be balanced way differently. So sadly to conform to the standards that is set by the game and the genre SnB should not deal a lot of damage and should not be a viable DPS option as its defensiveness combined with strong damage makes it overperform. The skill line is pact with debuffs, and defensive passives, it should not also deal significant damage.

    One Handed and Shield skill line should be a Tanking and Defensive/Supportive skill line and not a viable Damage Dealing alternative. (Though that does not mean you can't run it off bar in PvP for the defensive/support option with DPS on front)

    But that the thing: SnB already has average damage and kills slower than any melee playstyle, so why make it worse?

    I'm not arguing that SnB shouldn't be a tank based playstyle, because that is what it's mostly intended to be, I'm just saying the damage nerf was too extreme, when there is already a large gap between SnB and other offensive playstyles.

    PvP'ers would disagree.

    Reverb spam was honestly the only real aggressive playstyle for a lot of people sure there was/is some ransack/heroic slash set ups too but in terms of pure damage potential it was ultimately outstripped by everything else.
    Ah, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.
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  • Aznarb
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    paulsimonps wrote: »
    I've seen talks of tanks having to run orbs if changes stay the same as people will really not want to self sustain like that as it will drain a lot of DPS. That said, if the speed reduction and tick frequency increase is enough for it to deal a good amount of damage then we might see mag DPS running it as well, but don't know numbers until tomorrow. And Alkosh is still very much so doable without Orb spam. Templar healers will still be able to precision throw shards to the tanks for example and so that synergy won't really go anywhere for them.

    I've see no one point the DPS buff of Mystic Orb as a solution to the restriction of orb, that a great idea indeed, gonna test this with mag dps of my guild, thx for the idea !
    PC - EU

    Templar - Tank
    Necromancer - Tank
    Dragon Knight - Tank

    Warden - Healer
    Sorcerer - Healer
    Night Blade - Healer

    My English is far from perfect but I try my best !
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  • zvavi
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    Tanks are getting some quality of life changes that should have been added long ago. About time. Still, nb tanks are getting nerfed a bit (and for a reason) and sorc tanks are getting minor nerf as well. Mag sorc tanks are getting uber nerfed (shiled+group minor intelligence)
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  • ccfeeling
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    Summon Unstable Clannfear (morph): Reduced the healing granted from the special activation of this ability by approximately 14% to ensure it’s in line with other burst heal abilities, such as Rushed Ceremony or Dragon’s Blood.

    To me , this is huge nerf , the combat team gotta remember DK could access major mending and damage shield at the same time via Igneous Shield before they cast GDB .

    DK has the best tank tool kits in the game , WTF you guys still nerf all other tank classes , we sorc tank have to slot Clannfear both bar .
    That's insane .
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  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    ccfeeling wrote: »
    Summon Unstable Clannfear (morph): Reduced the healing granted from the special activation of this ability by approximately 14% to ensure it’s in line with other burst heal abilities, such as Rushed Ceremony or Dragon’s Blood.

    To me , this is huge nerf , the combat team gotta remember DK could access major mending and damage shield at the same time via Igneous Shield before they cast GDB .

    DK has the best tank tool kits in the game , WTF you guys still nerf all other tank classes , we sorc tank have to slot Clannfear both bar .
    That's insane .

    it is only 5%, as 14% of 35% is 5%, meaning that sorcs still get a 30% health heal on demand. pretty sure that is still the best in the game.
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  • DreadDaedroth
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    Ewww to damage nerf, why make things slower and more boring?
    Do they know that a weapon is meant to deal damage? :s
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  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    DreadDaedroth wrote: »
    Ewww to damage nerf, why make things slower and more boring?
    Do they know that a weapon is meant to deal damage? :s

    Power slam and deep slash.
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