Maintenance for the week of September 22:
• NA megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 14:00 UTC (10:00AM EDT)
• NA megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 14:00 UTC (10:00AM EDT)
Spell Power Cure after the healing changes
FrancisCrawford
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
I do dungeons. I've never done a trial. Hence:
My standard approach has long been to cast Mutagen twice every 20 seconds. Ideally, this gives 100% HoT uptime. Realistically, I seem to get ~70% Major Courage uptime. Anyhow, my old approach seems not to be appropriate for the Mutagen changes. So what now?
The obvious idea is Illustrious Healing. The other obvious idea is to cause Minor Lifesteal to be active a lot, but I don't know whether it works that way, and started another thread for discussion of those mechanics: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/483907/minor-lifesteal-mechanics#latest
What else? I guess a templar could go with Ritual of Retribution/Cleansing Ritual. A nightblade could try to rely on Twisting Path and Funnel Health. I suspect none of those ideas will be as reliable as the Illustrious Healing one.
Thoughts?
Edited by FrancisCrawford on July 10, 2019 2:26AM - I have Spell Power Cure gear.
- I don't have Olorime gear.
- My most difficult healing is in groups of 4 or less.
My standard approach has long been to cast Mutagen twice every 20 seconds. Ideally, this gives 100% HoT uptime. Realistically, I seem to get ~70% Major Courage uptime. Anyhow, my old approach seems not to be appropriate for the Mutagen changes. So what now?
The obvious idea is Illustrious Healing. The other obvious idea is to cause Minor Lifesteal to be active a lot, but I don't know whether it works that way, and started another thread for discussion of those mechanics: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/483907/minor-lifesteal-mechanics#latest
What else? I guess a templar could go with Ritual of Retribution/Cleansing Ritual. A nightblade could try to rely on Twisting Path and Funnel Health. I suspect none of those ideas will be as reliable as the Illustrious Healing one.
Thoughts?
0
-
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Use a source of minor lifesteal, it ticks every second someone is attacking.0 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Use a source of minor lifesteal, it ticks every second someone is attacking.
Indeed, I would recommend siphon spirit after the next update and blood altar until then.0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Use a source of minor lifesteal, it ticks every second someone is attacking.
Indeed, I would recommend siphon spirit after the next update and blood altar until then.
Is there confirmation that Minor Lifesteal procs count as healing by the caster of the original spell, not the player damaging the debuffed opponent (if different)?0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Use a source of minor lifesteal, it ticks every second someone is attacking.
Indeed, I would recommend siphon spirit after the next update and blood altar until then.
Is there confirmation that Minor Lifesteal procs count as healing by the caster of the original spell, not the player damaging the debuffed opponent (if different)?
the heal scales with the person that cast the skill that applied the debuff to the raget. not the person being healed by the minor health steal. so, 100% "caster of the original spell".0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Use a source of minor lifesteal, it ticks every second someone is attacking.
Indeed, I would recommend siphon spirit after the next update and blood altar until then.
Is there confirmation that Minor Lifesteal procs count as healing by the caster of the original spell, not the player damaging the debuffed opponent (if different)?
the heal scales with the person that cast the skill that applied the debuff to the raget. not the person being healed by the minor health steal. so, 100% "caster of the original spell".
That would be good. But, uh, what is this scaling? I thought it was a flat amount, like Minor Magickasteal.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Use a source of minor lifesteal, it ticks every second someone is attacking.
Indeed, I would recommend siphon spirit after the next update and blood altar until then.
Is there confirmation that Minor Lifesteal procs count as healing by the caster of the original spell, not the player damaging the debuffed opponent (if different)?
the heal scales with the person that cast the skill that applied the debuff to the raget. not the person being healed by the minor health steal. so, 100% "caster of the original spell".
That would be good. But, uh, what is this scaling? I thought it was a flat amount, like Minor Magickasteal.
percent amps, like healing done and crit hit damage and crit chance, the heal scales with these from the caster, not the person getting healed(unless person that is getting healed is also the caster).0 -
gepe87✭✭✭✭✭
✭On 4man content is better to use Combat Prayer (Burst+DD buffs) I rarely use HS in dungeons.
In trials HS will be missed
Gepe, Dunmer MagSorc Pact Grand Overlord | Gaepe, Bosmer MagSorc Dominion General
If you see edits on my replies: typos. English isn't my main language2 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭On 4man content is better to use Combat Prayer (Burst+DD buffs) I rarely use HS in dungeons.
In trials HS will be missed
I always, always use Mutagen in dungeons. My max level characters use it to proc SPC. That's what I'm trying to figure out how to replace, because of the drastic nerfs it's getting.
(And my lower level characters use it because they don't have much else.
) 3 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@FrancisCrawford, if you're layering your heals on top of each other (via a rotation), it really shouldn't matter much what you replace Mutagen with.
Mutagen isn't the only skill that can overheal and trigger the SPC proc.
Kind of surprised you don't already use Healing Springs in 4-man content actually.
Whether you use Templar, Warden, Necromancer, or Nightblade ... all of those have a class skill that can easily replace Mutagen.
Keep in mind we still have a month for ZOS to change their mind before the Update goes Live ...2 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »@FrancisCrawford, if you're layering your heals on top of each other (via a rotation), it really shouldn't matter much what you replace Mutagen with.
Mutagen isn't the only skill that can overheal and trigger the SPC proc.
Kind of surprised you don't already use Healing Springs in 4-man content actually.
Whether you use Templar, Warden, Necromancer, or Nightblade ... all of those have a class skill that can easily replace Mutagen.
Keep in mind we still have a month for ZOS to change their mind before the Update goes Live ...
Maybe it's because I tend to PUG easier dungeons and/or normal mode, but I've never felt the need for what you're suggesting. I dropped Healing Springs from my bars a while ago. When I did carry it I used it as a quasi-burst heal rather than a true HoT.
Also, because I'm PUGging, I like to be economical enough about bar space to have a damage rotation. On a templar I usually squeeze in four damage skills, including Shards and Purifying Light (obviously also there for their utility), plus Elemental Drain. On other classes I may fall one or two short of that.
In fact, I'd say that PUG dungeon healing theorycrafting is about finding builds that let you reliably do your healing/death prevention and "battery" jobs, while also making the most possible contribution to group DPS, indirectly (buffs, etc.) or directly as the case may be.2 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I actually think mutagen will be a lot better after the changes.
I haven’t logged onto PTS to test yet, but my issue with mutagen has always been the low healing value. It’s been buffed quite a bit, including the burst heal when low health, so I think it’ll be a lot better.
Put down your ground hot class ability, mutagen x4, 1x Combat Prayer and spot heal as required. Something like that... Orbs of course too. It’s the kind of thing trial and error plus setting will matter.
Anyways, point is now on live I never use mutagen or rapid regen. Healing value is too low. People are talking like the ability isn’t as good anymore but I think the opposite, I’d much rather have a healing ability that does something then a too weak to use hot that goes on double the amount of people.Edited by Iskiab on July 9, 2019 12:15PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭but my issue with mutagen has always been the low healing value. It’s been buffed quite a bit, including the burst heal when low health, so I think it’ll be a lot better.
Certainly it will have a use as a quasi burst heal/shield alternative it didn't have before. Plus it could be great in that capacity for players who are leveling.
Casting it 4x every 10 seconds doesn't seem like a lot of fun. Maybe a few fights when there's actually a danger of dying to DoTs ...3 -
Fiewiel✭✭✭I dont think that anyone is going to use a hot which you cant target and where you have to press hundreds of times a button over the course of a dungeon.0
-
Dixa✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »On 4man content is better to use Combat Prayer (Burst+DD buffs) I rarely use HS in dungeons.
In trials HS will be missed
I always, always use Mutagen in dungeons. My max level characters use it to proc SPC. That's what I'm trying to figure out how to replace, because of the drastic nerfs it's getting.
(And my lower level characters use it because they don't have much else. )
I didn't see any SPC nerfs in the patch notes.0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »On 4man content is better to use Combat Prayer (Burst+DD buffs) I rarely use HS in dungeons.
In trials HS will be missed
I always, always use Mutagen in dungeons. My max level characters use it to proc SPC. That's what I'm trying to figure out how to replace, because of the drastic nerfs it's getting.
(And my lower level characters use it because they don't have much else. )
I didn't see any SPC nerfs in the patch notes.
Mutagen was nerfed.0 -
Dixa✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »On 4man content is better to use Combat Prayer (Burst+DD buffs) I rarely use HS in dungeons.
In trials HS will be missed
I always, always use Mutagen in dungeons. My max level characters use it to proc SPC. That's what I'm trying to figure out how to replace, because of the drastic nerfs it's getting.
(And my lower level characters use it because they don't have much else. )
I didn't see any SPC nerfs in the patch notes.
Mutagen was nerfed.
mutagen is not the only ability that sets if off. any overhealing does. if you are unwilling to use the other healing options that is both your choice, and your problem to deal with.Edited by Dixa on July 9, 2019 11:40PM2 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mutagen is not the only ability that sets if off. any overhealing does. if you are unwilling to use the other healing options that is both your choice, and your problem to deal with.
^ This is a good point, here, @FrancisCrawford ...
With the changes in store for Update 23, are you going to get enough healing output to actually trigger SPC on a regular basis?
Remember, the heal on Purifying Light is getting cut by 1/3. And, as you noted, Mutagen is only hitting one player when it goes Live.
If the answer is "no", you may want to consider a different set entirely than SPC.0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »On 4man content is better to use Combat Prayer (Burst+DD buffs) I rarely use HS in dungeons.
In trials HS will be missed
I always, always use Mutagen in dungeons. My max level characters use it to proc SPC. That's what I'm trying to figure out how to replace, because of the drastic nerfs it's getting.
(And my lower level characters use it because they don't have much else. )
I didn't see any SPC nerfs in the patch notes.
Mutagen was nerfed.
mutagen is not the only ability that sets if off. any overhealing does. if you are unwilling to use the other healing options that is both your choice, and your problem to deal with.
If I weren't willing to use other skills than Mutagen, why would I have started this thread to discuss what other skills to use?????????????????????2 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »
With the changes in store for Update 23, are you going to get enough healing output to actually trigger SPC on a regular basis?
If it turns out we can't reasonably keep people at full health, then SPC is out the window. But I'm not expecting things to turn out that way. Keeping them topped up can be the difference between a one-shot and a near-one-shot.Taleof2Cities wrote: »
Remember, the heal on Purifying Light is getting cut by 1/3.
I'm a big fan of Purifying Light in boss fights, terrible-DPS groups obviously excepted; the damage alone is decent, so the damage+heal is very nice. But in trash fights it can be useless from a damage standpoint.
0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »but my issue with mutagen has always been the low healing value. It’s been buffed quite a bit, including the burst heal when low health, so I think it’ll be a lot better.
Certainly it will have a use as a quasi burst heal/shield alternative it didn't have before. Plus it could be great in that capacity for players who are leveling.
Casting it 4x every 10 seconds doesn't seem like a lot of fun. Maybe a few fights when there's actually a danger of dying to DoTs ...
Well you don’t need to use it 4x, only 3x. Unless I’m mistaken smart healing will mean the first three casts will hit everyone but the tank.
I’m 100% planning on running mutagen post patch. Combat Prayer - Ground heal - ele drain - mutagen x3. Then orb on cooldown, keep hots up, throw some dps. It’ll work on 99% of dungeon content.Edited by Iskiab on July 10, 2019 2:34AMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭On my Templar, Mutagen, ROR and a few orbs could heal most dungeons with a occasional BOL when needed. I could easily spend half my time doing DPS. The changes will make it more difficult to do that now with my play style.
The great thing about Mutagen is it travelled with the player and as we all know so groups just do not stay together. If the changes go thru I will have to make a few changes. May drop Mutagen. The 4 GCD is to much for 10seconds. Not worth it I am thinking.1 -
aetherial_heavenn✭✭✭✭✭I am looking forward to spamming combat prayer with my asylum staff
Quoted for truth
"In my experience, the elite ones have not been very toxic, and the toxic ones not very elite." WrathOfInnos0 -
Noldornir✭✭✭SPC procs whenever you heal an ally who is already at full health;
this can happens in many ways, you should not even think about it with any kind of HoT (possibly AoE):
-Healing Orbs
-Healing Springs
-Cleansing Ritual (Templars) -
-Mutagen (but imho is the worst skill for this job)
-Combat Prayer
Mutagen is one of my fav healing skills but that's because i'm Tank.
A tank with Mutagen on should hardly require any further attention from the healer but since SPC procs the the player you heal (provided he does not need healing in that moment) you should use mutagen on DDs (1-2 casts now 2-4 next update) or you'll SPC yourself and a tank all based on RNG (who's in front of you in that moment? who is wounded? etc.)
One single healing spring (recast as soon as needed) would work probably better in terms of SPC procs both now and in future update (1 cast= 4 player hit unless they are running around like mindless chicken, if that's the case don't bother too much 'cause running chickens are dealing 0 DPS - they are running or death maybe but not hitting).
Even orbs would work better:
while travelling= they heals
while popped= burst heal
on live 2 consecutive orbs with only the first one popped should probably trigger SPC for anywhone who's in range. In future one should be enough (in a dungeon you'll be able to get up to 3 "pops" of the same orbs which means 3 burst heals + the remaining HoT).
If you are templar the following combo of skills should give an almost 100% uptime:
Cleansing Ritual
Healing Orb
Healing Spring
With these up you have 3 concurrent healing in the same area which should be more than enough with a 50% chanche/10s buff
Also: can I ask you why you run Elemental Drain?
This skills has two uses:
1) Major Breach= this should be provided by tank with a 90 % uptime as now and ~100% next patch
2) Magickasteal= templars has an AoE version which is also free of cost. Only downside is it last less but in a dungeon imho is better because both mobs and bosses dies pretty fast (with some exception in Vets DLC)0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Also: can I ask you why you run Elemental Drain?
This skills has two uses:
1) Major Breach= this should be provided by tank with a 90 % uptime as now and ~100% next patch
2) Magickasteal= templars has an AoE version which is also free of cost. Only downside is it last less but in a dungeon imho is better because both mobs and bosses dies pretty fast (with some exception in Vets DLC)
Elemental Drain is more flexible in range. I didn't actually realize that Radiant Aura was costless too. But anyhow I like to keep the Repentance morph around, although that's perhaps mainly for sentimental reasons, as I don't actually equip the current version very often.
And I PUG, so tanks can not be trusted to do their jobs.
Anyhow, I suspect I'll switch to Siphon when this patch drops, assuming the Lifesteal indeed reliably handles SPC proc needs.Edited by FrancisCrawford on July 10, 2019 5:10PM0 -
Noldornir✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »I didn't actually realize that Radiant Aura was costless too.
It used to cost A LOT i think the change to free happened with wrathstone.FrancisCrawford wrote: »
And I PUG, so tanks can not be trusted to do their jobs.
Point (partially) taken. Any tank, even the dumbest will use puncture to taunt (and it applies the debuff as well so tank skills in this are irrelevant). Only time you would not have it up is if you have a fake tank who doesn't taunt at all. Or one who only uses inner fire to do so.
If I were you i'd keep it as swap-skill, if the tank has a sword n shield u don't really need it and especially with 2 magDD you might want to consider radiant instead
0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭. Any tank, even the dumbest will use puncture to taunt (and it applies the debuff as well so tank skills in this are irrelevant).
puncture does not apply major breach, only the morph pierce armor does and you would not believe the amount of tanks i see, as i am also a group finder hero, that use the other morph, ransack, in the group finder. and that is with ransack just applying minor resolve to the caster. next patch ransack will give minor protection, i fully expect the amount of tanks to be using the wrong morph to go up, not down.
2