ESO turned into siege simulator.

yodased

pieratsos wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

And? They defended a keep and you left. Objective complete.

They don't have to fight you on your terms.

You know that the term PVP stands for player vs player right?

and? Was there a robot behind that siege? Did the Environment buy and set up cold fire balistas against you?

PvP doesn't mean they have to get off the walls and fight the way you want to fight, you don't get to choose.

VaranisArano

vamp_emily wrote: »

Siege should be stronger. If a zerg can wipe out a solo person in seconds then siege should wipe out a zerg in seconds.

I don't know how many times i've used multiple siege on a group that is ramming a door and it doesn't even phase them. Siege should be very strong.

Was that an organized group that had mutliple healers casting heals and siege shield?

Because my experience is that its a matter of perspective. Players sieging tend to look at organized groups healing through siege and think "Wow, siege is weak!" while the healers of that raid know exactly how much effort is going into making sure their raid members don't melt under the oil.

darkblue5

So, uh, siege that was perfectly survivable at 200% strength is killing highly skilled small group players... each whom while solo could take 30 people if only they weren't armed with meatbags?

Oh, noes! Poor small men for whom I shed a single perfect tear.

darkblue5

VaranisArano wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

Siege should be stronger. If a zerg can wipe out a solo person in seconds then siege should wipe out a zerg in seconds.

I don't know how many times i've used multiple siege on a group that is ramming a door and it doesn't even phase them. Siege should be very strong.

Was that an organized group that had mutliple healers casting heals and siege shield?

Because my experience is that its a matter of perspective. Players sieging tend to look at organized groups healing through siege and think "Wow, siege is weak!" while the healers of that raid know exactly how much effort is going into making sure their raid members don't melt under the oil.

Generally people using siege are hoping for a better result than giving a very slightly stricter heal test that last patch that otherwise has no effect. Siege is a strategic deployment and if all it does is give the opposing healers a fun work out then anyone on siege should probably be Negate-monkeying or Bash-spamming instead.

Mitigation and heals are a bit out of control but seem to be what a lot of people from other MMOs like. Lots of PvPers on ESO rather seem to like FPS/shooters or fighter games more.

SodanTok

You are literally complaining noobs rather siege than go out of gates and get smacked by you over and over when they have like 1% chance to succeed against you (+- the % chance half the 1vX are seeking when picking who to fight).

Fights in Cyrodiil happen for 2 reasons. Either people want to have fun or they want to win. And that goes to both sides.

Try being more interesting and fun to fight against and you might get more people try to fight you. You are literally 30k HP SnB stamDK. I am yawning already.

VinayExile

SodanTok wrote: »

You are literally complaining noobs rather siege than go out of gates and get smacked by you over and over when they have like 1% chance to succeed against you (+- the % chance half the 1vX are seeking when picking who to fight).

Fights in Cyrodiil happen for 2 reasons. Either people want to have fun or they want to win. And that goes to both sides.

Try being more interesting and fun to fight against and you might get more people try to fight you. You are literally 30k HP SnB stamDK. I am yawning already.

please, we might be skilled, but the days of 4 people killing 30 are long gone, yes we might be able to kill some but besides overpowered siege the rezzing is the next problem.

sure siege should be viable, but the buffed damage n combination of the buff that happened before, that makes it have no counterplay ( exept get out of the HUGE circle ) makes siege way to strong.

And you say people want to have fun, what is the fun in sieging from a wall?
If i were a noob id take my chances and just go out, see what happens, its a game dying means nothing.
This way you could actually improve.

And my dk might have 30k HP, but its buffed by warden hp buff, anyone in pvp usually runs 30k nowadays, 30k isnt a whole lot on a stamdk... clearly you have no idea what youre talking about.
And even if i have 30k hp, i have 6k weapon damage not in a tanky setup at all.

yodased

VinayExile wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

You are literally complaining noobs rather siege than go out of gates and get smacked by you over and over when they have like 1% chance to succeed against you (+- the % chance half the 1vX are seeking when picking who to fight).

Fights in Cyrodiil happen for 2 reasons. Either people want to have fun or they want to win. And that goes to both sides.

Try being more interesting and fun to fight against and you might get more people try to fight you. You are literally 30k HP SnB stamDK. I am yawning already.

please, we might be skilled, but the days of 4 people killing 30 are long gone, yes we might be able to kill some but besides overpowered siege the rezzing is the next problem.

sure siege should be viable, but the buffed damage n combination of the buff that happened before, that makes it have no counterplay ( exept get out of the HUGE circle ) makes siege way to strong.

And you say people want to have fun, what is the fun in sieging from a wall?
If i were a noob id take my chances and just go out, see what happens, its a game dying means nothing.
This way you could actually improve.

And my dk might have 30k HP, but its buffed by warden hp buff, anyone in pvp usually runs 30k nowadays, 30k isnt a whole lot on a stamdk... clearly you have no idea what youre talking about.
And even if i have 30k hp, i have 6k weapon damage not in a tanky setup at all.

You don't have to understand why people have fun, nor do you have to explain why you have fun, but you don't get to judge other's ideas of what is fun.

What's fun about sieging from the walls? Pissing off tryhards that want to farm AP on low skilled players.

molecule

yodased wrote: »

What's fun about sieging from the walls? Pissing off tryhards that want to farm AP on low skilled players.

Well put.

Perhaps OP should leave the comfort and protection of his premade group, before criticising other players who might be just random solo players

SodanTok

VinayExile wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

You are literally complaining noobs rather siege than go out of gates and get smacked by you over and over when they have like 1% chance to succeed against you (+- the % chance half the 1vX are seeking when picking who to fight).

Fights in Cyrodiil happen for 2 reasons. Either people want to have fun or they want to win. And that goes to both sides.

Try being more interesting and fun to fight against and you might get more people try to fight you. You are literally 30k HP SnB stamDK. I am yawning already.

please, we might be skilled, but the days of 4 people killing 30 are long gone, yes we might be able to kill some but besides overpowered siege the rezzing is the next problem.

sure siege should be viable, but the buffed damage n combination of the buff that happened before, that makes it have no counterplay ( exept get out of the HUGE circle ) makes siege way to strong.

And you say people want to have fun, what is the fun in sieging from a wall?
If i were a noob id take my chances and just go out, see what happens, its a game dying means nothing.
This way you could actually improve.

And my dk might have 30k HP, but its buffed by warden hp buff, anyone in pvp usually runs 30k nowadays, 30k isnt a whole lot on a stamdk... clearly you have no idea what youre talking about.
And even if i have 30k hp, i have 6k weapon damage not in a tanky setup at all.

You are just confirming what I am saying.

As I said there is play for win and play for fun. What other people consider fun is not for you to decide or devalue. If they dont have fun sieging you, then they are trying to stop people from attacking their keep. If neither, they will probably quit PVP soon. You can patpat yourself for good job done on that

Yes yes good build. I know very well everyone in PVP is 30k hp heavy armor SnB build with 5k+ weapon damage. You dont have to explain that to me. I am telling you nobody is having fun fighting someone like that. Group of them? I am falling asleep just watching that, but someone might want to bother at least to siege them while watching Netflix.

Be interesting to fight against. Thats what you and tens of people like you doing the same thing over and over again dont get.

Arzharo

Berenhir wrote: »

Don't worry Vinay, DC is just as siege focused as any other alliance. The moment you appear near one of their keeps, you have the usual suspects putting down about 4 to 8 cold fire ballistas and meatbags to fight 4 players until TDA or some lfg thrash group arrives and ultidumps you from stealth with 24 people.

BTW @DC LFG players what is it with these stealthed zergs on DC side? I know prootch did use that tactic and it was a running gag on EP side ever since but why do full DC lfg raids still hide in stealth to then run unbuffed into their death?

Yeah, *** everyone playing cyro as it's meant to be played defending their keeps rather than running around in memegroups of 4 people trying to achieve something more than being a group of tryhards who achieves nothing for their alliance.

TriangularChicken

In my opinion, people that start sieging before the keep is even under attack are just sad. They don't even want to learn to get good. No respect for them.

yodased

TriangularChicken wrote: »

In my opinion, people that start sieging before the keep is even under attack are just sad. They don't even want to learn to get good. No respect for them.

If they stop you from attacking the keep, they don't need your respect they have mine.

Lady_Scorp72

TriangularChicken wrote: »

In my opinion, people that start sieging before the keep is even under attack are just sad. They don't even want to learn to get good. No respect for them.

Oh, I dunno...when my healer is alone at a keep and uses ballista or oils to stop a Zerg from starting a siege, or slowing it down until our fighters arrive, seems like a win to me.

pieratsos

yodased wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

And? They defended a keep and you left. Objective complete.

They don't have to fight you on your terms.

You know that the term PVP stands for player vs player right?

and? Was there a robot behind that siege? Did the Environment buy and set up cold fire balistas against you?

PvP doesn't mean they have to get off the walls and fight the way you want to fight, you don't get to choose.

Its not about fighting the way i want. Its about the game promoting an actual player vs player gameplay in which people are actually using the characters they created and leveled up to fight. It really isnt such a hard concept to understand but whatever. Keep on with these dumb arguments supporting this dumb gameplay.

Berenhir

Arzharo wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Don't worry Vinay, DC is just as siege focused as any other alliance. The moment you appear near one of their keeps, you have the usual suspects putting down about 4 to 8 cold fire ballistas and meatbags to fight 4 players until TDA or some lfg thrash group arrives and ultidumps you from stealth with 24 people.

BTW @DC LFG players what is it with these stealthed zergs on DC side? I know prootch did use that tactic and it was a running gag on EP side ever since but why do full DC lfg raids still hide in stealth to then run unbuffed into their death?

Yeah, *** everyone playing cyro as it's meant to be played defending their keeps rather than running around in memegroups of 4 people trying to achieve something more than being a group of tryhards who achieves nothing for their alliance.

I'm really sorry that overwhelming your opponents by outnumbering them 5 to 1 - with additional aid from multiple wall guarded siegers ofc - while having permanegating NPCs and +20% healing taken on your side is your vision of "how it's meant to be played".

But your posting history crying about people playing with friends and how ranged magicka classes and especially magsorcs are unkillable and how all stamina classes and especially stamDK are trash tells me all I need to know about your PvP capabilities

Vlad9425

I've started using siege a lot more since its the only thing worth doing when the framerate drops to zero and the server feels like its gonna explode.

Methariorn

SodanTok wrote: »

You are literally complaining noobs rather siege than go out of gates and get smacked by you over and over when they have like 1% chance to succeed against you (+- the % chance half the 1vX are seeking when picking who to fight).

Fights in Cyrodiil happen for 2 reasons. Either people want to have fun or they want to win. And that goes to both sides.

Try being more interesting and fun to fight against and you might get more people try to fight you. You are literally 30k HP SnB stamDK. I am yawning already.

it's a very fun game when I'm forced to run my templar or sorc as a purge bot...thare are enough source of defile in this game without the need of an aoe siege spamming it on a grp. Siege weapons do already high damage without the need of an aoe free defile.

Arzharo

Berenhir wrote: »

Arzharo wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Don't worry Vinay, DC is just as siege focused as any other alliance. The moment you appear near one of their keeps, you have the usual suspects putting down about 4 to 8 cold fire ballistas and meatbags to fight 4 players until TDA or some lfg thrash group arrives and ultidumps you from stealth with 24 people.

BTW @DC LFG players what is it with these stealthed zergs on DC side? I know prootch did use that tactic and it was a running gag on EP side ever since but why do full DC lfg raids still hide in stealth to then run unbuffed into their death?

Yeah, *** everyone playing cyro as it's meant to be played defending their keeps rather than running around in memegroups of 4 people trying to achieve something more than being a group of tryhards who achieves nothing for their alliance.

I'm really sorry that overwhelming your opponents by outnumbering them 5 to 1 - with additional aid from multiple wall guarded siegers ofc - while having permanegating NPCs and +20% healing taken on your side is your vision of "how it's meant to be played".

But your posting history crying about people playing with friends and how ranged magicka classes and especially magsorcs are unkillable and how all stamina classes and especially stamDK are trash tells me all I need to know about your PvP capabilities

You're so stereotypical. No, nobody but yourself cares about your greatness. You're not cool, none else cares about your edgy memegroups in cyro unless you make quality content out of it. No, you're not manly for engaging a bunch of noobs in open world PvP. You're flaming people for playing cyro the way it's meant to be played. And surely, if you want a challenge, you don't go into a cp campaign and engage 10 lvl 37 characters because that does not make you a good player. Unless you contribute somehow to your factions points, you've achieved nothing and you are a liablity to anyone who would do something meaningful in the meantime.

If you want a challenge, go duel someone you memelord.

Stamdks are underwhelming in no cp pvp that is especially battlegrounds. They are overperforming in cp pvp. I play no cp because that's the only place to find structured PvP enviroments. I'm sure if ZoS were to add a quality MMR system and competitive PvP it would not be in cyro but rather in battlegrounds. Quit being such an edgelord.

pieratsos

Arzharo wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Arzharo wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Don't worry Vinay, DC is just as siege focused as any other alliance. The moment you appear near one of their keeps, you have the usual suspects putting down about 4 to 8 cold fire ballistas and meatbags to fight 4 players until TDA or some lfg thrash group arrives and ultidumps you from stealth with 24 people.

BTW @DC LFG players what is it with these stealthed zergs on DC side? I know prootch did use that tactic and it was a running gag on EP side ever since but why do full DC lfg raids still hide in stealth to then run unbuffed into their death?

Yeah, *** everyone playing cyro as it's meant to be played defending their keeps rather than running around in memegroups of 4 people trying to achieve something more than being a group of tryhards who achieves nothing for their alliance.

I'm really sorry that overwhelming your opponents by outnumbering them 5 to 1 - with additional aid from multiple wall guarded siegers ofc - while having permanegating NPCs and +20% healing taken on your side is your vision of "how it's meant to be played".

But your posting history crying about people playing with friends and how ranged magicka classes and especially magsorcs are unkillable and how all stamina classes and especially stamDK are trash tells me all I need to know about your PvP capabilities

You're so stereotypical. No, nobody but yourself cares about your greatness. You're not cool, none else cares about your edgy memegroups in cyro unless you make quality content out of it. No, you're not manly for engaging a bunch of noobs in open world PvP. You're flaming people for playing cyro the way it's meant to be played. And surely, if you want a challenge, you don't go into a cp campaign and engage 10 lvl 37 characters because that does not make you a good player. Unless you contribute somehow to your factions points, you've achieved nothing and you are a liablity to anyone who would do something meaningful in the meantime.

If you want a challenge, go duel someone you memelord.

Stamdks are underwhelming in no cp pvp that is especially battlegrounds. They are overperforming in cp pvp. I play no cp because that's the only place to find structured PvP enviroments. I'm sure if ZoS were to add a quality MMR system and competitive PvP it would not be in cyro but rather in battlegrounds. Quit being such an edgelord.

So sitting on a wall with 20 people sieging 4-5 people who dont even use siege and objectively pose no threat to the actual keep is playing the game "the way its meant to be played" and "quality content" but people wanting to you know, engage in an actual player vs player gameplay are edgelords and memelords. Wow. Got to say. Im speechless.

You know what the biggest irony is however? That you actually call those 4 people a liabilty to their faction, achieving nothing and dont contribute in general when its actually the exact opposite that is happening.

Those 4 people are not in a group taking keeps and they are literally stalling an entire raid at a random keep. That entire raid that should be sieging keeps and actually defending them, is literally wasting its time at a random keep sieging for half an hour 4 people who pose no threat to the keep in the first place thinking that its actually defending that keep when its not and actually giving time to the other faction's raid to take ur own keeps. Now you tell me which one is achieving nothing and doesnt do something meaningful. Ill give you a tip. Its not those 4 guys.

Sorry mate but ur tactical innovations of sieging 4 people at a random keep are not innovative at all. You are doing ur faction more harm than good. Your strategy is so awful to the point where you cant even understand what defending a keep means.

BNOC

yodased wrote: »

What's fun about sieging from the walls? Pissing off tryhards that want to farm AP on low skilled players.

It's a bit like doing sports isn't it.

If you aren't good enough to make it, you spend your days watching it instead.

But everyone who watches, would be playing if they could.

It's a shame.

WoppaBoem

pieratsos wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

And? They defended a keep and you left. Objective complete.

They don't have to fight you on your terms.

You know that the term PVP stands for player vs player right?

Its called by players PVP. But a board game is also player versus player do you get up a fight with your family? Cyrodill resembles a lot with a board game. It is a map you need to have more control over than your enemies. In order to this you get handed seiges machines and your characters skills.

Some people decided to not play the map but only use the characters. Are very tanky, hug trees and make a sport out of rock climbing and then keep complaining on forums about the seiges and people grouping up that actually play the 'board' game Zenimax created.

I get you like the farming playstyle, but the whining is so not stop on these forums. You are properly not that good at it.

pieratsos

WoppaBoem wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

And? They defended a keep and you left. Objective complete.

They don't have to fight you on your terms.

You know that the term PVP stands for player vs player right?

Its called by players PVP. But a board game is also player versus player do you get up a fight with your family? Cyrodill resembles a lot with a board game. It is a map you need to have more control over than your enemies. In order to this you get handed seiges machines and your characters skills.

Some people decided to not play the map but only use the characters. Are very tanky, hug trees and make a sport out of rock climbing and then keep complaining on forums about the seiges and people grouping up that actually play the 'board' game Zenimax created.

I get you like the farming playstyle, but the whining is so not stop on these forums. You are properly not that good at it.

No, its also called by the developers PVP. The section you are posting is literally named "PVP combat & skills". Feel free to scroll up and read

Its not that i like the farming playstyle and ur ironic argument about treehuggers etc is unlucky to say the least. And refrain from using that "you are playing the board game while the others are not" argument. The situation described in this thread and that argument you are making to defend that gameplay is actually hilarious. See on the previous post a more detailed analysis as to why is that.

Like you said. You get to use both sieges and ur character skills. There is a place for both and understanding when to use each is also playing the board game. So yeah when im playing a board game with my family i dont get up and fight them. I mean thats a stupid analogy but no worries ill play ur game, so no i dont fight them. But i am actually playing the board game. Those people sitting on the wall doing nothing are not just properly not that good at the board game. They are not even in the same game.

So instead of telling me that im whining and not that good at it maybe you should pay attention, you repeat the same dumb things the other guy said. Cute attempt, better luck next time i guess. Cheers.

Imryll

VinayExile wrote: »

And you say people want to have fun, what is the fun in sieging from a wall?

I guess it's just me, but I really enjoy watching the health bars of enemy siege go down a notch with each click on my ballista. It's really not all that different from the pleasure I feel when I cast a spell and see an enemy health bar decline.

Also, Cyrodiil is AvAvA. Player vs. player combat is only part of it--and not the most important part if you look at how AP is earned. The goal is to win the campaign.

VinayExile

BNOC wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

What's fun about sieging from the walls? Pissing off tryhards that want to farm AP on low skilled players.

It's a bit like doing sports isn't it.

If you aren't good enough to make it, you spend your days watching it instead.

But everyone who watches, would be playing if they could.

It's a shame.

this is probably true

khajiitNPC

Lol. Potatoes are now people who use siege. That 4 man group is probably the same people who hop on the forums and QQ because they get zerged down. Or they are the “small group” who targets solo players.

dotme

VinayExile wrote: »

it shouldn't be this powerfull that you can put 1 oil or 1 meatbag when you are fighting someone or a group that is maybe 3 guys and you have 10-30 people sieging them

But it should be this powerfull that you can put 1 oil or 1 meatbag when you are fighting someone or a group that is maybe 10-30 guys and you have 3 people sieging them.

There are times of population imbalance that 3 players defending a keep from 10-30 players need that siege to have a chance. So the scenario you describe works perfectly well if you reverse your numbers.

yodased

pieratsos wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

And? They defended a keep and you left. Objective complete.

They don't have to fight you on your terms.

You know that the term PVP stands for player vs player right?

and? Was there a robot behind that siege? Did the Environment buy and set up cold fire balistas against you?

PvP doesn't mean they have to get off the walls and fight the way you want to fight, you don't get to choose.

Its not about fighting the way i want. Its about the game promoting an actual player vs player gameplay in which people are actually using the characters they created and leveled up to fight. It really isnt such a hard concept to understand but whatever. Keep on with these dumb arguments supporting this dumb gameplay.

There is player vs player only. It's called battlegrounds.

if someone were to set up siege in battlegrounds then you could ***, wait you can't because there are rules to make you fight players there.

Open world cyrodill is not pvp in the terms that you are presenting it. It's AvAvA. Alliance vs alliance and if I want to lay down a coldfire 1v1 you have 0 right to say anything about it.

You don't get to dictate how anyone else plays, nor can you legitimately say that the developers "meant for your to get off the walls and fight me" since they you know, PUT THE WALL THERE AND LET ME FIGHT OFF IT.

If they "meant for you to only pvp" they would have made a system where you were forced to do that, given it its own rule set, reward system and grouping function.

OH WAIT THEY DID ITS CALLED BATTLEGROUNDS.

Also with the "those who can't do, teach" analogy. Cool story bro, but passive aggressiveness isn't going to get anyone to not set up siege when you show up to farm them.

Berenhir

Always wondered: Do siege heroes actually practice at the alliance siege training site to improve their aim? Are there guild training sessions to practice sieging? And why can't you dump it on ESO Logs to analyze group DPS and rotation?

technohic

It's a little annoying to be sieged when in a smaller group but I feel it's worth it since we generally make harder targets to hit than the trend of unorganized PUG faction stacks I see that siege is really effective on now. It requires more strategy than just luring the more thirsty PUGs away from the group but can be handled.

Sheuib

pieratsos wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

And? They defended a keep and you left. Objective complete.

They don't have to fight you on your terms.

You know that the term PVP stands for player vs player right?

and? Was there a robot behind that siege? Did the Environment buy and set up cold fire balistas against you?

PvP doesn't mean they have to get off the walls and fight the way you want to fight, you don't get to choose.

Its not about fighting the way i want. Its about the game promoting an actual player vs player gameplay in which people are actually using the characters they created and leveled up to fight. It really isnt such a hard concept to understand but whatever. Keep on with these dumb arguments supporting this dumb gameplay.

You do realize that almost every keep has a position that you can siege the keep and not get hit by counter siege. If you insist on always sieging the front door and get killed by counter siege it sounds like that is your own fault. Set up siege in a tower or on a hill that the only way to stop you is to come off the wall and attack. Then you force them to play your game instead of you playing their game.