To hardcore covenant players, how does having a "khajiit" on the banner make you feel?

Casowen

Conversely to hardcore ebonhart players, how does having a argonian on the banner make you feel? I get that argonians are not dragons, and neither are khajiit lions technically, but the resemblance is hard to ignore. Given the relationship argonians have with the dunmer, im surprised this hasnt come up more, or at all.

Zacuel

I'm pretty sure both dragons and lions eat birds. So sucks for them.

hellhound223

As someone who mains a Khajiit in the Covenant, I don’t mind at all

Morgul667

I never cared about it

TiaFrye

I bet you're thinking 'hardcore' in terms of PVP hardcore, but real covenant hardcorians are the ones who have finished all Covenant zones with all their blue bannered characters in terms of questing xd

I get that the topic was made to set an uncomfortable point, but really?))

Samadhi

To hardcore covenant players, how does having a "khajiit" on the banner make you feel?

Just fine,
the Covenant is not built on perceptions of racial purity or superiority
it's about reinstating trade and getting that money

the real question should be whether Khajiit players feel comfortable being stereotyped as materialistic to such a degree that they became an icon to a wealthy king

Casowen

TiaFrye wrote: »

I bet you're thinking 'hardcore' in terms of PVP hardcore, but real covenant hardcorians are the ones who have finished all Covenant zones with all their blue bannered characters in terms of questing xd

I get that the topic was made to set an uncomfortable point, but really?))

I dont know about uncomfortable, I find it funny more then anything. I by hard core I really mean more the devoted type I suppose as I am "hardcore" dominion, though I do have a serious weakspot for vvardenfell and dark elves in general, mainly because it has what much of the altmer lack.

In general, I have actually never even seen this brought up.

TiaFrye

Casowen wrote: »

TiaFrye wrote: »

I bet you're thinking 'hardcore' in terms of PVP hardcore, but real covenant hardcorians are the ones who have finished all Covenant zones with all their blue bannered characters in terms of questing xd

I get that the topic was made to set an uncomfortable point, but really?))

I dont know about uncomfortable, I find it funny more then anything. I by hard core I really mean more the devoted type I suppose as I am "hardcore" dominion, though I do have a serious weakspot for vvardenfell and dark elves in general, mainly because it has what much of the altmer lack.

In general, I have actually never even seen this brought up.

Oh, in this case I have my own view to share as well. I don't think that for EP-player for example any lizard will be a memento on argonians, unless that person is not that familiar with lore (yeeeah, I think it's a breaking point to any symbolism in this game). Considering that dunmer specifically, and by that I mean Almalexia ofc, have given the nords an upper hand, because you can't have a loud northerner in your party and don't make him a person in charge. Otherwise northerner will make your life miserable. So, a symbol from nordic folklore as a banner is expected, a dragon none less. Much as the fact that everyone knows that Scald-King is not the one really in charge. Dunmer know. And the fact that at the moment (Elsweyr situation excluded as it's not a part of the base game) dragons are nowhere to be found.
There's also gryphons, a lion and an eagle at the same time. In earlier history they would be a worthy symbol for manmer of High Rock, but modern bretons are far from their Direnni heritage and closer to human races of Tamriel than ever, grounded so to speak, so the lion stays on earth while eagle flying away. I find that poetic almost.

So, yeah, I find current banners fitting quite a bit. For Dominion as well, because no matter how often the queen reminds everyone that their Alliance has the strongest bonds, there is only golden eagle on yellow. No cats, no leaves. And unlike the other alliances it was named after one race instead of city where the treaty made place. If you know the altmer, you know why.

SirAndy

Never understood why players identify with a faction (or race for that matter).
My in-game characters, sure, absolutely, no doubt.

But me personally? I could not care less ...

Skelfish

This is like asking why dunmer haven't purged all normal lizards from Morrowind because they have a passing resemblance to an argonian. Why don't people with a fear of snakes in real life also want to kill all lizards? Why don't people with a fear of dogs want to get rid of wolves, foxes, coyotes, and other canine-shaped animals? They resemble each other, so they must be considered the same.

VaranisArano

Because it's obviously a Dovah on the Ebonheart Pact banner. Not an Argonian.

Sheesh, give the Dunmer and Nords some credit for being able to tell the difference.

And given that there are actual lions in the Alik'r desert and Hew's Bane, and its the "Lion Guard", I'm pretty sure that the Bretons and Redguard can also tell the difference between their lions and Khajiit.

I mean, I get that players might be confused by the superficial resemblance, but the actual people living in Tamriel? Would not be confused.

Ash_In_My_Sujamma

This thread is...

gepe87

TiaFrye wrote: »

So, yeah, I find current banners fitting quite a bit. For Dominion as well, because no matter how often the queen reminds everyone that their Alliance has the strongest bonds, there is only golden eagle on yellow. No cats, no leaves. And unlike the other alliances it was named after one race instead of city where the treaty made place. If you know the altmer, you know why.

Although its name is based on elven rule in Tamriel (Aldmeri, the ancestor race in common with all elven races), the Altmer were the protagonists on that dream. Im sure Ayrenn dont share the same idea of altmer superiority.

Aldmeri isnt Altmeri.

labambao

Makes me feel like ad.

xxthir13enxx

Umm...oh....I didn’t realize DC were so sensitive? I’m suddenly sorry I burnt so many of their Fwd Camps...was that like I was burning down their childhood homes in their eyes!?

SpacemanSpiff1

It's not a Khajiit. So, indifferent.

Dagoth_Rac

I am not sure what banner is being discussed. But I do not see Khajiit and think, "The enemy!" That would be like an American in 1941 seeing Eisenhower and thinking, "The enemy!" because he was of German descent. Race/ethnicity is not the same thing as nationality.

Grandma

I know a lot of TES lore is centered on racism that players like to roleplay for concerning reasons, but I'm proud to have khajiit. As for EP, don't pretend Argonians aren't the fiercest and most dangerous group of people on nirn, they literally were invaded by hell itself, said "actually, no", beat hell back, *ENTERED HELL, AND THEN BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF THEM.* so I don't think having argonians is a detriment.

BigBragg

Ever been to The Alik'r Desert?

Amanuensis

It’s all symbolic, isn’t it? I mean, how do Aldmeri Dominion players feel about being represented by a middle finger?

xxthir13enxx

Amanuensis wrote: »

It’s all symbolic, isn’t it? I mean, how do Aldmeri Dominion players feel about being represented by a middle finger?

Actually...now that I see the Eagle as the “Flipping the Bird” emote.... I freaking Love It!lol

Taleof2Cities

This one fights for DC ...

Samadhi

gepe87 wrote: »

TiaFrye wrote: »

So, yeah, I find current banners fitting quite a bit. For Dominion as well, because no matter how often the queen reminds everyone that their Alliance has the strongest bonds, there is only golden eagle on yellow. No cats, no leaves. And unlike the other alliances it was named after one race instead of city where the treaty made place. If you know the altmer, you know why.

Although its name is based on elven rule in Tamriel (Aldmeri, the ancestor race in common with all elven races), the Altmer were the protagonists on that dream. Im sure Ayrenn dont share the same idea of altmer superiority.

Aldmeri isnt Altmeri.

Nah, Ayrenn just views the Mer (and Khajiit as proxy-mer) as being inherently better than human races


in her defense tho, the specific language around referring to the human races as children could specifically draw from her own insecurities of comparative youth (being that she herself has spent less time on Nirn than both the other alliance leaders)
and seeking to validate herself in the eyes of older and more prestigious inhabitants of the Summerset Isles

Casowen

Samadhi wrote: »

gepe87 wrote: »

TiaFrye wrote: »

So, yeah, I find current banners fitting quite a bit. For Dominion as well, because no matter how often the queen reminds everyone that their Alliance has the strongest bonds, there is only golden eagle on yellow. No cats, no leaves. And unlike the other alliances it was named after one race instead of city where the treaty made place. If you know the altmer, you know why.

Although its name is based on elven rule in Tamriel (Aldmeri, the ancestor race in common with all elven races), the Altmer were the protagonists on that dream. Im sure Ayrenn dont share the same idea of altmer superiority.

Aldmeri isnt Altmeri.

Nah, Ayrenn just views the Mer (and Khajiit as proxy-mer) as being inherently better than human races


in her defense tho, the specific language around referring to the human races as children could specifically draw from her own insecurities of comparative youth (being that she herself has spent less time on Nirn than both the other alliance leaders)
and seeking to validate herself in the eyes of older and more prestigious inhabitants of the Summerset Isles

I honestly can relate to her. Where are you getting though that she is looking for approval from older altmer? The saphiarchs where well on her side If I recall.

Samadhi

Casowen wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

gepe87 wrote: »

TiaFrye wrote: »

So, yeah, I find current banners fitting quite a bit. For Dominion as well, because no matter how often the queen reminds everyone that their Alliance has the strongest bonds, there is only golden eagle on yellow. No cats, no leaves. And unlike the other alliances it was named after one race instead of city where the treaty made place. If you know the altmer, you know why.

Although its name is based on elven rule in Tamriel (Aldmeri, the ancestor race in common with all elven races), the Altmer were the protagonists on that dream. Im sure Ayrenn dont share the same idea of altmer superiority.

Aldmeri isnt Altmeri.

Nah, Ayrenn just views the Mer (and Khajiit as proxy-mer) as being inherently better than human races


in her defense tho, the specific language around referring to the human races as children could specifically draw from her own insecurities of comparative youth (being that she herself has spent less time on Nirn than both the other alliance leaders)
and seeking to validate herself in the eyes of older and more prestigious inhabitants of the Summerset Isles

I honestly can relate to her. Where are you getting though that she is looking for approval from older altmer? The saphiarchs where well on her side If I recall.

the mainline quest through the Aldmeri zones has to do with renegade elements on the Isles viewing her as not being sufficiently suited to the role of Queen
it is my position that her call to arms was more skewed in terms of Mer-specific language (ie: she specifies an Altmer Infant on the Ruby Throne, not Bosmeri nor Khajiit) to try and mitigate such an uprisings and appeal to as much of the population as possible
rather than her utilizing the language specifically because she resents human races -- moreso she recognizes that there are people on (and off) the Isles that view her as still being a kid by the age standards of Altmer

that letter was from back before the game went into Early Access on PC, and think they have since removed traces of it on the main site
do not recall that, at the time, the narrative of the game had the Sapiarchs included -- the Aldmeri portion was much more focused on the Veiled Heritance and attempts to overthrow Ayrenn's rule

ArchMikem

A Lion is not a Khajiit.

A Dragon is not an Argonian, and frankly i think he'd eat you for insinuating that.

The both of them being feline or reptilian is irrelevant.

Sylvermynx

ArchMikem wrote: »

A Lion is not a Khajiit.

A Dragon is not an Argonian, and frankly i think he'd eat you for insinuating that.

The both of them being feline or reptilian is irrelevant.

Yeah.

Mr_Walker

I don't LARP, so as a player I find myself remarkably unperturbed....

jainiadral

Great! The more Khajiits, the better

TiaFrye

gepe87 wrote: »

TiaFrye wrote: »

So, yeah, I find current banners fitting quite a bit. For Dominion as well, because no matter how often the queen reminds everyone that their Alliance has the strongest bonds, there is only golden eagle on yellow. No cats, no leaves. And unlike the other alliances it was named after one race instead of city where the treaty made place. If you know the altmer, you know why.

Although its name is based on elven rule in Tamriel (Aldmeri, the ancestor race in common with all elven races), the Altmer were the protagonists on that dream. Im sure Ayrenn dont share the same idea of altmer superiority.

Aldmeri isnt Altmeri.

I am avare. Yet altmer obsession with their asncestory is well known.

redlink1979

Never though about this stuff, so I really don't care.
Fyi, this one fights for DC.