Anyone else feeling that TTC is bad for consumers.

Sylvermynx

Well, when I played WoW and RIFT, I spent a lot of time messing around on the GAHs. Because, you could make some gold doing that (though in all the years I played those games, I remember only a handful of times where someone "was going to corner the market" - which never actually happened.... and yeah, I'm aware there are those that say it did happen - but really, so many servers, so little time.... on the servers on which I played mostly, no one was ever able to do so).

I wasn't a billionaire. I left WoW with around 4 million gold spread over all my accounts (7, with 10 toons each) - not a lot really, as there wasn't much I really wanted to buy. It's all still there - my daughter, sister, and nephew still play, and keep the guilds going. I was going to split the gold between them, but they really didn't want it, so it will sit there until the servers go dark. Virtual gold.... no loss....

RIFT was different from the get go. I was less interested in the story (kind of an ESO precursor with faction conflict -UGH - and Rifts.... dolmens are pretty much exactly like Rifts....) But the HOUSING!! OhMyGODDESSES. The housing was the coolest thing I've ever found in ANY game whether SPMR or MMORPG.

I was so bummed to find out that Trion sold RIFT to some butt-head company which trashed it (and the housing of course), and are now almost not supporting it at all.

*SIGH*

Ri_Khan

No, TTC is not bad for consumers but all the greedy flippers sure are!

Mr_Walker

Jhalin wrote: »

Considering primarily consumers use TTC, what are you trying to accomplish

Flippers will check on out of the way places no matter what. Regular buyers only pop in when they see something cheap.

Every time I try to give the small guilds some business, I’m the only one there, and everything is somehow horrendously overpriced, not even by a small amount. Motifs are like 5-10k over average

That's probably because flipper parasites have been along and sucked all the "goodness" out before you arrived.

ChunkyCat

The time I save looking up a specific item through their web site is worth whatever thousands of gold I’ll end up overpaying.

Besides, I’m rich.

Ackwalan

Linaleah wrote: »

I don't think you understand how TTC works. it does NOT update in Real time. information has to get uploaded and then processed and posted and there is a gap of at least an hour or more between the item getting scanned in game and the item showing up on the website.

people who are buying up those inexpensive items? are buying them the old fashioned way, while hoofing it around on foot and chances are - that posting you see on TTC website? is from an uploaded info by the very person who bought the lower priced item in a first place. TTC is NOT a centralized trade house. its at best - a snapshot of listings on any given day. delayed snapshot.

its useful for finding obscure items at mid range prices. it is very useless for finding deals to resell. the more in demand the item in question is? the less useful TTC is for buying it on a cheap.

You don't know how TTC works. You can manually scan your guild store, relog or /reloadui and the website will update all items for that guild.

The problem with TTC, is that people can post something for 10 gold, manually scan the store, then pull the item out of store and relist it. So the website will post that item for 10 gold but it won't be there.

jainiadral

Red_Feather wrote: »

I never buy something without using TTC first. My first time looking for an item was hell and I hated it before I found out about TTC. I saw probably one dozen loading screens before finding a trader with the item in stock at a price I could afford.

Yep, exactly. I use TTC to a) find out the exact name of something I'm looking for so I can actually search it at the trader and b) find out more or less where there might be a decent concentration of that item at a semi-reasonable price so I don't have to wayshrine all over Tamriel to find it.

Before I knew about TTC, I couldn't even figure out how to search for certain items. TTC has been a godsend for this consumer. Without it, I'd buy absolutely nothing.

david_m_18b16_ESO

TTC make my life as a buyer so much bether. Its so easy now to find what I need in good quantity.

Without it ESO would have the worst selling system out of ever MMO that ever existed.

MLGProPlayer

Nobody uses TTC for flipping. It's not nearly accurate enough. You won't even make 50k per hour using it. Flippers buy almost exclusively through zone chat.

It pretty much only benefits consumers as it makes it easier to find what you need. It also exposes people to higher supply, putting downard pressure on prices.

Linaleah

Ackwalan wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

I don't think you understand how TTC works. it does NOT update in Real time. information has to get uploaded and then processed and posted and there is a gap of at least an hour or more between the item getting scanned in game and the item showing up on the website.

people who are buying up those inexpensive items? are buying them the old fashioned way, while hoofing it around on foot and chances are - that posting you see on TTC website? is from an uploaded info by the very person who bought the lower priced item in a first place. TTC is NOT a centralized trade house. its at best - a snapshot of listings on any given day. delayed snapshot.

its useful for finding obscure items at mid range prices. it is very useless for finding deals to resell. the more in demand the item in question is? the less useful TTC is for buying it on a cheap.

You don't know how TTC works. You can manually scan your guild store, relog or /reloadui and the website will update all items for that guild.

The problem with TTC, is that people can post something for 10 gold, manually scan the store, then pull the item out of store and relist it. So the website will post that item for 10 gold but it won't be there.

yes I do. and it has never, EVER updated the website listings immediately for me. moreover - that hypothetical scenario of yours actualy kinda sorta confirms what i've been saying. that the update on the website is often for a listing that has already been purchased, often by a person who updated the listings in a first place, especially for out of the way guild stores. as in.. it is pointless to use TTC to flip anything. is main use is to see average listing prices and to narrow down the search for specific mid range priced less common items

Urigall

jdamuso wrote: »

I think youve made some valid points, maybe i am going the wrong route with this. Perhaps an easier solution would be items to be account bound upon purchase would help it.

I thought about what would happen if items are bound upon purchase. At first blush, it seemed like a good idea. Said as much in another thread.

However, the knock on effects are likely to be very - very - significant. Some of the changes it would cause would be unwelcome on philosophical grounds (cessation of long standing game play practices) A lot of players would probably be extremely pissed off as a result.

Jhalin

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Considering primarily consumers use TTC, what are you trying to accomplish

Flippers will check on out of the way places no matter what. Regular buyers only pop in when they see something cheap.

Every time I try to give the small guilds some business, I’m the only one there, and everything is somehow horrendously overpriced, not even by a small amount. Motifs are like 5-10k over average

That's probably because flipper parasites have been along and sucked all the "goodness" out before you arrived.

Lol, no buddy. Flippers aren’t buying up every above average priced mat just to relist them lower in a big hub. They aren’t buying the above average motifs to relist at average price in the big hubs either.

Also, they’re not “parasites”, they’re dedicated to a playstyle they like. Everything in the game you are entering able to fame to yourself, you’re never at the whim of a flipper

Ackwalan

Linaleah wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

I don't think you understand how TTC works. it does NOT update in Real time. information has to get uploaded and then processed and posted and there is a gap of at least an hour or more between the item getting scanned in game and the item showing up on the website.

people who are buying up those inexpensive items? are buying them the old fashioned way, while hoofing it around on foot and chances are - that posting you see on TTC website? is from an uploaded info by the very person who bought the lower priced item in a first place. TTC is NOT a centralized trade house. its at best - a snapshot of listings on any given day. delayed snapshot.

its useful for finding obscure items at mid range prices. it is very useless for finding deals to resell. the more in demand the item in question is? the less useful TTC is for buying it on a cheap.

You don't know how TTC works. You can manually scan your guild store, relog or /reloadui and the website will update all items for that guild.

The problem with TTC, is that people can post something for 10 gold, manually scan the store, then pull the item out of store and relist it. So the website will post that item for 10 gold but it won't be there.

yes I do. and it has never, EVER updated the website listings immediately for me. moreover - that hypothetical scenario of yours actualy kinda sorta confirms what i've been saying. that the update on the website is often for a listing that has already been purchased, often by a person who updated the listings in a first place, especially for out of the way guild stores. as in.. it is pointless to use TTC to flip anything. is main use is to see average listing prices and to narrow down the search for specific mid range priced less common items

You're using TTC wrong then. Do you log into the client before scanning the store?

Mayrael

jdamuso wrote: »

I am seeing a trend of items that are needed being bought up at low prices and sold at high prices which is normal. But what is not, while using TTC to locate said items these popular items are being bought up in under 10 minutes and reprice 300 - 3000%

And thus im kinda feeling as if the allowance of the add-on is just plain ruining the game economy, and not helping it at all.

Maybe it was better when you had to search for it on foot hey. Get a chance to not spend 3000% mark ups.

Are you surprised? Imagine having global AH when you don't need to run from trader to trader, just setup a bit that will buy specific thing below certain price and then sell them back at higher price. Ah... Monopolists wet dream. TTC is just a taste of what global AH would bring.

Imagine you sell some stuff. People sort things by unit price. So you set your goods at 1 gold below current lowest price to be on top. Few seconds later someone's does it to you. Suddenly you are on 5-15 page depending on rarity of the stuff you sell.

Other way around. Imagine you seek for certain weapon. Currently prices are floating, you can find the same weapon in price range 200-300k. With global AH all prices would be unified, thus there would be no "lucky shots" when searching for stuff.

Guild traders force people to spread, reducing lags and making all areas alive. Etc. Etc.

So in general TTC is just a tip of an iceberg.

Derra

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

TTC makes it 100x easier to find what you want.

This.

I much rather have to pay the average price set by the market than having to search a dozen obscure location guildstores for an item i want to buy.

Ryath_Waylander

Actually no. TTC is something I use for convenience, when I want to sell or buy something. Saying it is bad for consumers is your perception of the way you play the game. Flippers and trading, is the way others enjoy their game in the same way, housing and high end Trials are enjoyed. Loading screens are the death of my game. A normal one is 45 to 60 seconds and a bad one up to 2 mins. By then, I hit Alt-F4. TTC gives me an idea of acceptable price range and sales locations, without having to play "Tamriel slideshow". Obviously in prime time, the cheapies have already been flipped but it doesn't help to get sour about it. I think what really kills you is seeing a deal you missed? If I really don't want to pay an inflated price, I wait for the weekend, flipping generally only starts around 06:30. The early bird catches the worm and the good deals from late night players are for sale early mornings. If I'm too late then I only have myself to blame. If there were no traders, there would be no stock and I would have to spend my time farming content I don't want to, in order to find those desirable items. TTC is a useful tool.

eklhaftb16_ESO

IRL, I'm using a service that parses discount offers from many stores, allowing me to find best deals easily and plan my weekly grocery shopping accordingly. Thanks to it, just this last week I've bought twenty liters of UHT milk (I use it for cooking and baking) for half the normal price, so now it sits in my cellar and I don't have to worry about milk til Christmas. Some months ago, I bought four cases of sunflower oil at 70% off, and 50 kg of sugar at 30% off. I'd most certainly say it is good for me as a customer, because it saves both my time and my money - and as a bonus, it gives me this warm fuzzy feeling of having enough supplies to outlast a medium-scale armed conflict.

TTC is really no different: sometimes when I get there, the deal is already gone; sometimes it's still valid and I get to save money. Either way I'm better off with TTC than without TTC.

Mr_Walker

Jhalin wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Considering primarily consumers use TTC, what are you trying to accomplish

Flippers will check on out of the way places no matter what. Regular buyers only pop in when they see something cheap.

Every time I try to give the small guilds some business, I’m the only one there, and everything is somehow horrendously overpriced, not even by a small amount. Motifs are like 5-10k over average

That's probably because flipper parasites have been along and sucked all the "goodness" out before you arrived.

Lol, no buddy. Flippers aren’t buying up every above average priced mat just to relist them lower in a big hub. They aren’t buying the above average motifs to relist at average price in the big hubs either.

Reading comprehension not even once....

Jhalin wrote: »

Also, they’re not “parasites”, they’re dedicated to a playstyle they like. Everything in the game you are entering able to fame to yourself, you’re never at the whim of a flipper

They're ticket clippers. They add nothing.

GeorgeBlack

You are right OP.
All I was doing for a time was to buy Bright throats legs impenetrable.
Get them for 10-20k sell them for 40k.
The next day I would pick a different item.

Anything else is a BS reply.

Jhalin

Jhalin wrote: »

Every time I try to give the small guilds some business, I’m the only one there, and everything is somehow horrendously overpriced, not even by a small amount. Motifs are like 5-10k over average

Mr_Walker wrote: »

That's probably because flipper parasites have been along and sucked all the "goodness" out before you arrived.

As you said:

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Reading comprehension not even once....

Since you had some trouble reading, I went and bolded that for you.

I said the majority of isolated traders have significantly overpriced items, you implied everything below that (obviously including the average priced and slightly overpriced items) got bought to be resold. I reasonably laughed at the idiocy of thinking anyone is going to buy anything above average price just to relist it at average.

But please, keep pretending it’s those nasty flippers keeping you from getting cheap deals. And we’ll conveniently ignore you could get it all yourself if you cared to try, won’t we

daemonios

Thogard wrote: »

TTC is good for consumers.

Arbitrage is good for average consumers in that it promotes efficient markets.

Don’t get me started bro.

Spoken like a true Wall Street evangelist. Arbitrage is just another name for flipping stock and skimming on the price. Any good it does is doubtful, and micro-crashes have happened due to high frequency trading algorithms used for "arbitrage" going bonkers. Also: why would we want the in-game economy to resemble real-world economy, when the latter does a such a *** job of getting stuff where it's needed?

Coatmagic

What you perceive as flipped/mark-ups are actually dummy posts to get you to the trader (see this A LOT on EU).

If you use TTC enough you will come to realise which guilds do this on a regular basis.

Also, it's common sense really, if something looks too good to be true then it probably is

+1 to the other posts: TTC is there to help folks find misc crap at a reasonable price without too much of a time sink involved.

bmnoble

You do realize that, most of the listing on TTC, are from people browsing in guild stores, more often than not if they see a good deal they buy it. The listing does not get removed from the website till the seller logs in and either logs out or reloads their UI, with different time zones it could be anywhere from 1 night or any number of days before some sellers log in again to clear the listing.

Other than that, if you are resisted(edited meant registered) on the website, your item listings get uploaded once you log out or reload UI, almost immediately, the hour long wait is just from people browsing the stores not actually listing anything.


If your expecting to get good deals on items that are used frequently, TTC won't help you, its for finding specific items at a good price. Anything that is used by most players is largely going to get bought the moment they see it.

Urigall

TTC has its uses - can sometimes find items after looking up the listings. The listing don't seem to be updated in real time though. I sometimes go to a trader for an item, think it's been sold already, then find it some way down the trader's inventory.

TTC would be even more useful if the listings were as close to real time as possible.

But if that happened, there would be a flipping feeding frenzy. The only way to ensure TTC was useful for genuine buyers, were it to be updated in real time, would be if most items were bound upon purchase. Otherwise, cheap items would vanish in minutes. Asset flippers would be the beneficiaries, not the player who is looking for a specific item.

And if items were bound upon purchase, many traders would see a huge drop in income. Many items for sale have probably been bought cheaply from one trader and re-listed on another.

Ymmv on the question of whether this is a good thing or a bad thing. I'm only stating the obvious.

Tommy_The_Gun

As Always, there 2 "sides" of the coin:

Good: You can find something cheaper somewhere, but you can also know what price to expect on average.
Bad: Stuff can be bought by top guilds (who tend to have millions of gold, so price is not a problem for them) and the re-sold for 10X more etc.

What do you think, should items sold via guild traders be account locked then ? To prevent re-selling & artificial price lifting ?

Minno

I purposely sell/buy at low/mid prices for this reason.

Sure some wow nerd might pickup my item with intent to sell at 300% uptick, but if everyone follows The buy/sell lower than the average price, then you keep the market in check.

Problem is nobody wants to help crash the inflated markets lol

Urigall

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

should items sold via guild traders be account locked then ? To prevent re-selling & artificial price lifting ?

Bound upon purchase would almost certainly lead to a huge drop in income for many traders. Guilds would probably lose out too. A lot of sales are probably double sales - bought cheaply at one trader, then sold a second time at another. Binding purchased items would thus have implications for guild revenue.

We'd have to think through the implications of bound upon purchase. At first blush...

FOR

Genuine buyers would benefit because items listed cheaply wouldn't be bought by asset flippers.

True price competition would be introduced. Sellers would be able to list items cheaper than rivals, without the fear of their stock being bought up then sold on at a profit.

AGAINST

Asset flip traders would be badly impacted. Playing as a trader is something many players like doing.

Possible adverse impact upon gold sink, arising from decreased revenue.

Skwor

Linaleah wrote: »

I don't think you understand how TTC works. it does NOT update in Real time. information has to get uploaded and then processed and posted and there is a gap of at least an hour or more between the item getting scanned in game and the item showing up on the website.

people who are buying up those inexpensive items? are buying them the old fashioned way, while hoofing it around on foot and chances are - that posting you see on TTC website? is from an uploaded info by the very person who bought the lower priced item in a first place. TTC is NOT a centralized trade house. its at best - a snapshot of listings on any given day. delayed snapshot.

its useful for finding obscure items at mid range prices. it is very useless for finding deals to resell. the more in demand the item in question is? the less useful TTC is for buying it on a cheap.

I strongly disagree with your statement.

1. The data is instantly available to the people who run the site and any of thier friends as they choose.

2. I have tested it and have seen my listed sales go up in as little as 10 minutes.

Urigall

Skwor wrote: »

The data is instantly available to the people who run the site and any of thier friends as they choose.

And that is the definition of insider trading.

Durham

No dont care why care when the game does not work. Nothing else in the game matters atm until they fix performance of this game. There are to many people that just cant play atm.

chess1ukb16_ESO

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

TTC makes splitting into trade guilds pointless. Might as well have one big market for all.

Clearly this is false. Guilds with a busy kiosk sell more. If a busy guild moved to a less busy Trade Hub the sales would go down noticeably.

The vast majority of players do not use TTC for every single transaction and never will. It is best used by heavy Traders, bargain hunters or Players looking for the rarer item. Prices vary noticeably Zone to zone and are not that homogeneous.