Why DOES Necromancer only have 3 minion abilities?

leokafilyeb17_ESO

It's too late, it won't change but still. (And no flesh atronach does not count.)

Anyone else feel like when they think 'necromancer' they envision a caster summoning multiple skeletons/zombies etc. you know the typical archetype? Kind of a missed opportunity I feel with the current necromancer, Blastbones is more projectile like than minion and the Skeletal arcanist/shade are the only two rather 'small' summons we actually get. Also also, anyone feel that summoning a GRAVEYARD is really random and weird? Like, what? There is a spell to summon literally tombstones? It's so bizzare and silly.

ALSO, why is it we have such cool wraithe/ghost models ingame but ours looks like a pokemon? ALSO ALSO, the siphoning abilities, cool idea, but why are we draining the life from a 'CORPSE'? The definition of a corpse is something that's dead, aka no life, shouldn't we be targetting the ENEMY with our siphon abilities?

ALSOOOOO, I love the Bon Goliath form but- anyone else think this was a missed opportunity for 'Lich Form'? Liches are part of the lore after all.

I dunno, just my two cents, kinda feel like some of the choices are really...weird for the class. Still like the animations though.

The_Old_Goat

Actually, when I envision a "necromancer", I see them as a class powered by death, pain and suffering, so minions would only be a portion of their armory, to me. Don't think of it as "draining the life from a corpse" so much as "amplifying the power of my spell with the essence or soul of that creature that once was alive". A class who only summons minions seems a little one dimensional, so they've given us optional paths. When Necro came out, I questioned whether I would even like a class where there was an "offensive", "tankfensive" and "healfensive" seperate skill lines, and in short I do.

Waffennacht

I role play a necromancer that resides in swamp/forest lush areas, where corpses are plentiful but degrade too quickly to maintain for long periods of time.

This is fine with my necromancer as he feels variety is the spice of life.... or lack thereof

mb10

Man i absolutely completely agree with you

A real lack of creating corpses its more about consuming them.

There are more skills to consume a corpse than there are to create a corpose its kinda stupid tbh


Instead of 3 tombstones, three dead mages should create a spell that does a DoT in that area and it create at least 1 corpse on death

leokafilyeb17_ESO

mb10 wrote: »

Man i absolutely completely agree with you

A real lack of creating corpses its more about consuming them.

There are more skills to consume a corpse than there are to create a corpose its kinda stupid tbh


Instead of 3 tombstones, three dead mages should create a spell that does a DoT in that area and it create at least 1 corpse on death

Yeah the tombstone one is the weirdest one in particular, it's almost immersion breaking and cartoonish, again I ask; why on earth would a necromancer summon tombestones? Skeletons, dead bodies, even an rea of decay or frost or whatever, but seriously, why/how/where am I summoning actual tombstones from? Is there a graveyard in Tamriel that suddenly ends up losing 3 tombstones when I summon it up? Whut?

I'm sorry to the developers but that spell is freaking stupid, animation and idea wise.

idk

Concerning the lich form, there is nothing about the necro that is lich. Lich is one aspect of necros and by no means is it a defining one. Considering the Goliath is tanking related I do not see how the lich would work for that skill line.

Further, the necro has 4 minions if you want to be specific. Colossus, blastbones, skeletal mage, Spirit mendor and technically bone armor could be considered since it drops a corps but that is stretching it a bit.

leokafilyeb17_ESO

idk wrote: »

Concerning the lich form, there is nothing about the necro that is lich. Lich is one aspect of necros and by no means is it a defining one. Considering the Goliath is tanking related I do not see how the lich would work for that skill line.

Further, the necro has 4 minions if you want to be specific. Colossus, blastbones, skeletal mage, Spirit mendor and technically bone armor could be considered since it drops a corps but that is stretching it a bit.

Colossus is NOT a minion, by that logic I have lots of mementos that summon minions because hey, they have an animation that looks like something else being summoned. (Heck they last longer than Colossus as well.) Colossus is an AoE abilitiy, it's animation just happens to look like a flesh atronach that appears for 2 seconds. Hell their original skeletal dragon idea seemed cooler.

Also regarding Lich Form, I was simply pointing out that Liches are actually a thing in Elder Scrolls, the Bone Goliath is a new random creation, the only other place we've seen 'bone goliath' looking things are the minions other necromancer NPCs summon/work on, never transform into. I still think Lich would have worked better in terms of keeping with what Necromancers have been, and why couldn't a Lich form be tanky related? It's all magic, use your imagination.

Red_Feather

I couldn't even use the pet command key to control them to attack a target.

DBZVelena

i'd like to point out any skill that kills, is a skill that creates corpses.

Zorgon_The_Revenged

Narvuntien

The problem is they wanted to make unique game play if you want perminate pets there is a sorcerer you can play.

I like the soul drain skills because you have to think about them when using them which is basically the polar opposite of perminate pets that you summon once and just let them run around doing all your damage for you.

Look I understand its a bit of fantasy of playing a necromancer and the reality is a bit disconnected with this design but its way better to have classes that play differently and not just having two sorcerer classes.

In the end...though perhaps the best solution to Magcro problem is to make blastbones be perminate pet that explodes when it is eventually killed. Since the dps issue is all that running time for the pet..

Xerikten

look at it this way. if there were more all of the little Johnnies would have some really high bounties.

Ixilith

leokafilyeb17_ESO wrote: »

It's too late, it won't change but still. (And no flesh atronach does not count.)

Anyone else feel like when they think 'necromancer' they envision a caster summoning multiple skeletons/zombies etc. you know the typical archetype? Kind of a missed opportunity I feel with the current necromancer, Blastbones is more projectile like than minion and the Skeletal arcanist/shade are the only two rather 'small' summons we actually get. Also also, anyone feel that summoning a GRAVEYARD is really random and weird? Like, what? There is a spell to summon literally tombstones? It's so bizzare and silly.

ALSO, why is it we have such cool wraithe/ghost models ingame but ours looks like a pokemon? ALSO ALSO, the siphoning abilities, cool idea, but why are we draining the life from a 'CORPSE'? The definition of a corpse is something that's dead, aka no life, shouldn't we be targetting the ENEMY with our siphon abilities?

ALSOOOOO, I love the Bon Goliath form but- anyone else think this was a missed opportunity for 'Lich Form'? Liches are part of the lore after all.

I dunno, just my two cents, kinda feel like some of the choices are really...weird for the class. Still like the animations though.

If they could have delivered on a caster alone it would be nice.

Instead we get a brain dead Stam build which has wrecked the meta in pve by being a class which replaces all.

And a worthless magicka side with bugged abilities, and can’t line of sight through a stone without the tether breaking.

Konstant_Tel_Necris

leokafilyeb17_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Concerning the lich form, there is nothing about the necro that is lich. Lich is one aspect of necros and by no means is it a defining one. Considering the Goliath is tanking related I do not see how the lich would work for that skill line.

Further, the necro has 4 minions if you want to be specific. Colossus, blastbones, skeletal mage, Spirit mendor and technically bone armor could be considered since it drops a corps but that is stretching it a bit.

Colossus is NOT a minion, by that logic I have lots of mementos that summon minions because hey, they have an animation that looks like something else being summoned. (Heck they last longer than Colossus as well.) Colossus is an AoE abilitiy, it's animation just happens to look like a flesh atronach that appears for 2 seconds. Hell their original skeletal dragon idea seemed cooler.

Also regarding Lich Form, I was simply pointing out that Liches are actually a thing in Elder Scrolls, the Bone Goliath is a new random creation, the only other place we've seen 'bone goliath' looking things are the minions other necromancer NPCs summon/work on, never transform into. I still think Lich would have worked better in terms of keeping with what Necromancers have been, and why couldn't a Lich form be tanky related? It's all magic, use your imagination.

Bone Goliath is not new, its form of bone colossus, and we have necromancers that's actually transformed self into such form for example Zumog Phoom at last fight.

Just imagine if Bone Goliath have different bonus like Magicka instead of Health on another morph here is Lich Form, they can even add Magicka OR Stamina which one is higher condition to appeal to stamina players as well.

Narvuntien wrote: »

In the end...though perhaps the best solution to Magcro problem is to make blastbones be perminate pet that explodes when it is eventually killed. Since the dps issue is all that running time for the pet..

Thats exactly how sorcerer Volatile Familiar worked before lol, explode on death for 20% Magicka as damage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWDdkP4NRw4

Perashim

Could rework the Blastbones skill into a melee Skeleton, with two morphs:

First morph would be for Stamcros and would summon a diseased zombie to deal disease damage and inflict some sort of debuff or do more damage.

Second morph for Magicros would simply make the skeleton last somewhat longer and detonate on death/expiration.

Could maybe work in some sort of exploit corpse ability where you can summon another one if you are targeting a corpse?

DemonicSpirit

To be honest, I feel really disappointed with the necromancer class in TESO. Summoner class is always my favorite in any game, having only 1 minion ( bomber does not count as it is just an animation skill and ultimate is an animation as well as it just hits three times then vanish ) is really not related to a summoner who should command an army ( like necromancers in many games such as guild wars 1,2 , diablo 2,3 and wow. It seems that I will stick with my sorcerer summoner with 2 permanent minions + ultimate golem ( That stays up for a while ).

SirMewser

Let me cast a spell that makes graves appear, haha.
Necromancer on eso doesn't feel at all like a necromancer or any traditional spell caster.
Its just glorified animations that belong to a JRPG.

Morrowind had a variety of undead minions and the blight.

Oblivion even had a lot of flavor, used different casting effects/colors (purple) oppose to daedric summoning (red) .
Skeletons, zombies, ghost, wraiths, and lich
Turn, reanimate, dismiss, fortify, and heal undead.
It had black soul gems. Necromancers were known for their enchanted artifacts such as the necromancer's amulet or staff of worms.
Then there were rituals involving altars that Necromancers used to become immortal/lich, like the one in the mage guild story arc or the one in the basement of the house you buy in Anvil.
Sacrafices and offerings had altars and/or hexagrams.
Raising the Knights of the Nine was the antithesis of Meridia's "law" but for a good cause.
Shivering Isle allowed you to summon shambles, flesh atronaches, get a skinned Hound pet, create a new gate keeper by selected limbs.
Don't even get me started on soul trap on ESO. Soul gems/enchants were way different and multifunctional.
Then there was that Mysterious Bears Epic Necromancy mod...

Skyrim allowed the player to prepare minions by equipping (my preference, custom made) gear before animating them. You still had your conjured undead that came out of nothing though.

The bars were just set high.

Metafae

chainlink01 wrote: »

I questioned whether I would even like a class where there was an "offensive", "tankfensive" and "healfensive" seperate skill lines, and in short I do.

Offensive, Defensive, Supportive. ?

mague

leokafilyeb17_ESO wrote: »

ALSO ALSO, the siphoning abilities, cool idea, but why are we draining the life from a 'CORPSE'? The definition of a corpse is something that's dead, aka no life, shouldn't we be targetting the ENEMY with our siphon abilities?

Siphoning from the living is called vampirism

Wikipedia

Necromancy (/ˈnɛkrəmænsi/)[1][2] is a practice of magic involving communication with the dead – either by summoning their spirit as an apparition or raising them bodily – for the purpose of divination, imparting the means to foretell future events, discover hidden knowledge, to bring someone back from the dead, or to use the dead as a weapon. Sometimes referred to as "Death Magic", the term may also sometimes be used in a more general sense to refer to black magic or witchcraft.[3][4]

The word "necromancy" is adapted from Late Latin necromantia, itself borrowed from post-Classical Greek νεκρομαντεία (nekromanteía), a compound of Ancient Greek νεκρός (nekrós), "dead body", and μαντεία (manteía), "divination by means of"; this compound form was first used by Origen of Alexandria in the 3rd century AD.[5] The Classical Greek term was ἡ νέκυια (nekyia), from the episode of the Odyssey in which Odysseus visits the realm of the dead and νεκρομαντεία in Hellenistic Greek, rendered as necromantīa in Latin, and as necromancy in 17th-century English.[6]

idk

leokafilyeb17_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Concerning the lich form, there is nothing about the necro that is lich. Lich is one aspect of necros and by no means is it a defining one. Considering the Goliath is tanking related I do not see how the lich would work for that skill line.

Further, the necro has 4 minions if you want to be specific. Colossus, blastbones, skeletal mage, Spirit mendor and technically bone armor could be considered since it drops a corps but that is stretching it a bit.

Colossus is NOT a minion, by that logic I have lots of mementos that summon minions because hey, they have an animation that looks like something else being summoned.

Your logic lacks what many of us call logic. The Colossus does damage that I am pretty sure is many times that of your precious mementos.

leokafilyeb17_ESO

idk wrote: »

leokafilyeb17_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Concerning the lich form, there is nothing about the necro that is lich. Lich is one aspect of necros and by no means is it a defining one. Considering the Goliath is tanking related I do not see how the lich would work for that skill line.

Further, the necro has 4 minions if you want to be specific. Colossus, blastbones, skeletal mage, Spirit mendor and technically bone armor could be considered since it drops a corps but that is stretching it a bit.

Colossus is NOT a minion, by that logic I have lots of mementos that summon minions because hey, they have an animation that looks like something else being summoned.

Your logic lacks what many of us call logic. The Colossus does damage that I am pretty sure is many times that of your precious mementos.

Yet more people seem to agree with me. Hmmmmm.

robpr

Replace graveyard with pile of corpses and that would fit more, but how change that into magicka damage form?

Perashim

Make a morph of Boneyard that exploits nearby corpses and turns them into temporary zombies or skeletons that attack nearby enemies.

Would be fine with that.

DemonicSpirit

Perashim wrote: »

Make a morph of Boneyard that exploits nearby corpses and turns them into temporary zombies or skeletons that attack nearby enemies.

Would be fine with that.

Good idea I am up for any skill\method that allow us " supposedly summoners " to be able to summon an army.
Don't ever mention the lame excuse >> " would cause lag if many summoners were in the same instance " , as many other games got summoners with their minions in the same map without any lag... ( unless your PC is potato ).

Krileon

Necromancer is not what I expected at all. I expected a class with command over the dead. Instead we get a bunch of clunky useless tether abilities and corpses that last 4 seconds that you have to look at to even use. It's not fun. They effectively made a class with the micro management of a necromancer that summons minions with no minions; how does that even happen? Half the skills you can't even use in practice because they're tethered to a corpse that may be sitting off in a corner and you can't rely on blastbones as more often than not he stands around looking at you.

I feel like Sorcerer is more a necromancer than the Necromancer.

SirMewser

idk wrote: »

leokafilyeb17_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Concerning the lich form, there is nothing about the necro that is lich. Lich is one aspect of necros and by no means is it a defining one. Considering the Goliath is tanking related I do not see how the lich would work for that skill line.

Further, the necro has 4 minions if you want to be specific. Colossus, blastbones, skeletal mage, Spirit mendor and technically bone armor could be considered since it drops a corps but that is stretching it a bit.

Colossus is NOT a minion, by that logic I have lots of mementos that summon minions because hey, they have an animation that looks like something else being summoned.

Your logic lacks what many of us call logic. The Colossus does damage that I am pretty sure is many times that of your precious mementos.

Yet more people seem to agree with him, hmmm.

leokafilyeb17_ESO

SirMewser wrote: »

idk wrote: »

leokafilyeb17_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Concerning the lich form, there is nothing about the necro that is lich. Lich is one aspect of necros and by no means is it a defining one. Considering the Goliath is tanking related I do not see how the lich would work for that skill line.

Further, the necro has 4 minions if you want to be specific. Colossus, blastbones, skeletal mage, Spirit mendor and technically bone armor could be considered since it drops a corps but that is stretching it a bit.

Colossus is NOT a minion, by that logic I have lots of mementos that summon minions because hey, they have an animation that looks like something else being summoned.

Your logic lacks what many of us call logic. The Colossus does damage that I am pretty sure is many times that of your precious mementos.

Yet more people seem to agree with him, hmmm.

Literally 90% of the posts in here are agreeing with me, you should try a little harder if you want to troll.

Perashim

I wonder if anyone at ZOS actually reads these. There is some good feedback here.

Xvorg

DemonicSpirit wrote: »

To be honest, I feel really disappointed with the necromancer class in TESO. Summoner class is always my favorite in any game, having only 1 minion ( bomber does not count as it is just an animation skill and ultimate is an animation as well as it just hits three times then vanish ) is really not related to a summoner who should command an army ( like necromancers in many games such as guild wars 1,2 , diablo 2,3 and wow. It seems that I will stick with my sorcerer summoner with 2 permanent minions + ultimate golem ( That stays up for a while ).

You said it: Summoner

That's another class. Necromancer can or cannot be a summoner.

Diablo 2 necro with its minion's army was more a summoner than a necro, you could even summon golems. And that skill line wasn't even fun to play. The good things of Diablo2 necro were the bone and posion skills and the curses.

In any case I don't think there's a problem with ESO necro. In lore, necros in TES can summon maximum 2 minions, unless you are carrying the Staff of Worms and your name is Mannimarco.

darkblue5

The question a lot of people aren't asking is "How would it play in ESO?" and I don't think I can take the complaints seriously until that is addressed. Take petsorcs which are horridly boring as far as the pets go. Why would it be more fun if the pets were bonier or more putrid?

Would people be satisfied if the skeleton mage/archer remained a simple DOT but just had multiple bodies? Would multiple blastbones having pathing problems make you happier? Would having a bunch of random zombies that stand around and don't do any damage until they do the AOE DOT Major Vulnerability thing make you happier?

Once they're debugged at least the tethers can be an interesting mechanic that is unique to the class and not functionally equivalent to what other classes do. Making various ultimates, spammables, and DOTs reskinned to be a bunch of graphic card consuming mess without making them play in an interesting way in any mode doesn't sound interesting to me.

Also, BTW in previous ES games the player character had a real dang hard time summoning/animating more than one corpse and maybe one game had a way to permanently animate corpses. All those methods ultimately resulted in a boring and weaker build that was worse than just doing the fight yourself.
Instead of watching "fair for its age" AI pathfind until the spell ends duke it out you could instead use abilities and weapons that scaled with your power level... unlike the summons and reanimations that had effectiveness caps below endgame viability brokenness.

Gnortranermara

leokafilyeb17_ESO wrote: »

Also also, anyone feel that summoning a GRAVEYARD is really random and weird? Like, what? There is a spell to summon literally tombstones? It's so bizzare and silly.

Fair point. Desecrated ground (black area with hands reaching up kinda thing) would be less weird.