Why No AoE Taunt?

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Swordbreaker
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I've been playing ESO for years and recently started trying to main a tank since dungeon queues take forever as a DPS. One thing i've noticed is how incredibly annoying it can be running around trying to agro everything because you have to get within such short range, and sometimes enemies get in the way of eachother and make it VERY difficult to agro everything. Even if you run into the room solo to try and get their attention first, they'll often auto-agro to your friendlies who are much further away. Manually agroing every enemy individually seems arbitrarily annoying.

Like many gamers, i suffer from carpel tunnel syndrome, so spamming the same single ability can make my wrist hurt like hell, often making it difficult and unenjoyable to reach the end of a dungeon. I'm not asking for this game to be easy, but some basic accessibility features and common courtesy would be nice.

So my question is: why arent AoE taunts a thing? What reason did ZoS have for not including it and why are so many players so resistant to the idea of it being implemented?
Why not at least make shields have a passive that has an AoE agro while blocking or a basic war cry ability that deals no damage/debuff, but agros all nearby enemies within a small radius?
  • idk
    idk
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    There is no AoE taunt because it is not necessary and the game was not designed nor intended for the tank to tank all trash in a dungeon.

    Zos specifically stated they intended that with trash mobs pretty much everyone in the group would get agro from some trash mobs and they gave each of us the skills to manage that issue by moving, blocking and dodge rolling.

    Further, a great many tanks have tanked all content in this game very well without the use of an AoE taunt which demonstrates how it is not needed by any means.

    So what do you do. Do not taunt everything. Taunt the more dangerous NPCs. That is what is intended.
    Edited by idk on June 19, 2019 3:43AM
  • MaddPowered
    MaddPowered
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    AoE taunt would actually be useless
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  • david_m_18b16_ESO
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    AoE taunt would actually be useless

    AoE taunt would make healer and DPS so boring in PvE.

    Probably even tanking.
  • zvavi
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    I would recommend trying an aoe damage ability to soft agro all adds, gotta warn you though it wont work if someone else engages before you.

    Edit: it even works in vet hel ra as a tank, i always ask everyone to wait until i soft agro the big add group before last boss and then we engage with gragoils inside the group. Pug life
    Edited by zvavi on June 19, 2019 3:58AM
  • Swordbreaker
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    AoE taunt would actually be useless

    Objectively untrue by every sense of the word. An AoE taunt, by definition, would only be useless if it didnt taunt anything.

    This is part of what i'm talking about. Every time i ask this question people give elitist and short-sighted answers with no real argument. I listed out in detail all of the issues with the lack of an AoE taunt, especially for those with carpel tunnel (which is a VERY large number of gamers so its not something you can just ignore). But you respond with nothing of substance.

    Please, give a valid rebuttal or stay out of the conversation. Responses like the one you gave above are not helpful in any way and only add toxicity to the debate. I'm more than happy to hear your argument if you have one.
  • Swordbreaker
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    idk wrote: »
    There is no AoE taunt because it is not necessary and the game was not designed nor intended for the tank to tank all trash in a dungeon.

    Zos specifically stated they intended that with trash mobs pretty much everyone in the group would get agro from some trash mobs and they gave each of us the skills to manage that issue by moving, blocking and dodge rolling.

    Further, a great many tanks have tanked all content in this game very well without the use of an AoE taunt which demonstrates how it is not needed by any means.

    So what do you do. Do not taunt everything. Taunt the more dangerous NPCs. That is what is intended.

    Fair point. Though arguing that people have done without it isnt really a strong argument. People have beaten Dark Souls without using any armor but that doesnt mean armor isnt an integral part of the game that needs to be there.

    But i do get what you're saying. I just find that in pub groups if i DONT agro everything, alot of times people get swarmed and killed by the trash mobs and AoEs. As a tank, part of your job is to mitigate the damage of your teammates' stupid mistakes, which can be difficult.

    But i will take your advice and try to do that going forward.
  • richo262
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    Taunting is mostly for bosses and big ads.

    Trash control is done by AOE effects. Necro has Totem, it AOE fears. DK has Talons, it AOE immobilises. Both of which act to root down trash fights.

    What I find is the case, is you AOE effect a trash fight, and while they are all stationary, you grab the big ones, if any, by the time taunt expires, they should all be dead. If they are not, that is your DPS lacking, not the tank.
  • Kidgangster101
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    One thing they could do, but probably never would, is to make it so if you que as tank all of your moves generate more agro. Not exactly a taunt but a higher chance for you to hold agro. But also make the tank take like 25% more damage.

    Or maybe give an aoe taunt and just increase the damage output the mobs do, maybe add some dots that can't be avoided that fill up rooms so healer can keep people alove and not be bored.
  • MartiniDaniels
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    Because there are ton of other means to control mobs. Basically in ESO if you wanna be a good tank you need to work hard.
  • darkblue5
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    First damage is usually all you need for an AOE "taunt". Also for carpal tunnel LOS gathering is probably even better than usual. Gets messed up in PUGs a lot as people like to run off to corners of the room to die to one weak add....
  • zaria
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    AoE taunt would actually be useless
    Is some cases even dangerous, you block the boss and all the adds hitting you eat your stamina.

    For trash, if all stack on tank you have an AoE taunt automatically, tank can focus on pulling in healers and ranged adds.
    As an bonus all AoE hit all and its easy to heal.

    Now this does not work for all bosses. but game has been designed for it.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • Jeremy
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    I've been playing ESO for years and recently started trying to main a tank since dungeon queues take forever as a DPS. One thing i've noticed is how incredibly annoying it can be running around trying to agro everything because you have to get within such short range, and sometimes enemies get in the way of eachother and make it VERY difficult to agro everything. Even if you run into the room solo to try and get their attention first, they'll often auto-agro to your friendlies who are much further away. Manually agroing every enemy individually seems arbitrarily annoying.

    Like many gamers, i suffer from carpel tunnel syndrome, so spamming the same single ability can make my wrist hurt like hell, often making it difficult and unenjoyable to reach the end of a dungeon. I'm not asking for this game to be easy, but some basic accessibility features and common courtesy would be nice.

    So my question is: why arent AoE taunts a thing? What reason did ZoS have for not including it and why are so many players so resistant to the idea of it being implemented?
    Why not at least make shields have a passive that has an AoE agro while blocking or a basic war cry ability that deals no damage/debuff, but agros all nearby enemies within a small radius?

    I don't think they want that kind of a combat system. Tanks are suppose to concentrate on the more dangerous enemies while the rest of the team deals with the rest. I personally kind of like it - because it makes the rest of the group have to consider some kind of defense as well instead of just relying on a tank to always keep enemies off of them.

    I do agree it can be annoying sometimes - but that's mostly just due to targeting issues and lag. But ultimately I believe it makes the combat more interesting.
    Edited by Jeremy on June 19, 2019 5:47AM
  • idk
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    But i do get what you're saying. I just find that in pub groups if i DONT agro everything, alot of times people get swarmed and killed by the trash mobs and AoEs. As a tank, part of your job is to mitigate the damage of your teammates' stupid mistakes, which can be difficult.

    The one thing that is certain is the game should not be design for the worst possible pug groups via dungeon. That would make the game slap stick silly in a pathetic way.

    Basically your point is exactly the reason the AoE taunt should never be added. Players need to learn to play rather than have crutches and training wheels added. Those that choose to not learn to play with this game design have WoW and FF to fall back on.
  • Jeremy
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    I just find that in pub groups if i DONT agro everything, alot of times people get swarmed and killed by the trash mobs and AoEs. As a tank, part of your job is to mitigate the damage of your teammates' stupid mistakes, which can be difficult.

    That's because a lot of players build their characters to be like tissue paper and literally melt if water touches them. That's not your fault as a tank. All players - even DPS - need to at least have enough defense to where they can take a hit from a weak add without dying.

    We were doing Imperial City Sewers today and there was this one DPS who literally just died the whole time while constantly blaming the healer and tank. It never dawned on him to consider the possibility maybe he was the reason he kept dying. Eventually he left from the "impossible run" and we went on to complete the dungeon handily without him.

    There are a lot of players like this individual. They should stick to zerging normal modes

    Edited by Jeremy on June 19, 2019 5:59AM
  • ryzen_gamer_gal
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    Well. I use a lighning staff on my front bar and and ice staff on the back. For my magicka tank that sorta works well.

    If you build one bar with the intention of engaging mobs and another for the boss, i think you'll have it covered.

    If you play a dragon night or a sorc tank you can lock the mobs in place which is actually better than an aoe taunt because it means the mobs are held in place for a few seconds while you drop that aoe on them.

    lightning staff is great after locking them in place or even before. drop an elemental wall and heavy attack them with your staff. works great.


    honestly i think you are being a little defensive. the first response given did directly answer many of your questions. maybe you are just being to hard on yourself as well?

    Bottom line is as stated, taunting mobs was never the intention of the game design and as you have experienced with single taunts, taunting the mobs is next to impossible.

    Take a moment and think about the dungeon i think it is darkshade cavern 2 with the three giant alits that you have to kill all about the same time. just trying to taunt the three of those bosses can be a task.

    Also, i am pretty sure that in vet dungeons, if there was an aoe taunt, it would wipe you out in seconds. Imperial city prison comes to mind. Esp when on the lord warden, if you cold taunt all his shadows at once, the entire group would be wiped because you would be dead and everyone else would die trying to res you. Or what about that wall of ghosts in fang lair... they wipe out players as they march across the pit with the skeletal draon in it. imagine what an aoe taunt would do too you there? Or what about march of sacrfices, the three wyrd sisters you have to keep separated. an aoe taunt would be certain death for you. or what about all the poison exploding rodents in scalecaller peak? i'm not sure you know what you are asking for. Imagine what an aoe taunt would do to you with the two giant ogres in scale caller peak.


  • Conduit0
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    This game has no cooldowns and without a cooldown to limit use an AOE taunt would be far too powerful. Its really that simple.
    Edited by Conduit0 on June 19, 2019 6:28AM
  • kargen27
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    Fair point. Though arguing that people have done without it isnt really a strong argument. People have beaten Dark Souls without using any armor but that doesnt mean armor isnt an integral part of the game that needs to be there.

    But i do get what you're saying. I just find that in pub groups if i DONT agro everything, alot of times people get swarmed and killed by the trash mobs and AoEs. As a tank, part of your job is to mitigate the damage of your teammates' stupid mistakes, which can be difficult.

    But i will take your advice and try to do that going forward.

    Hit as many as you can with Caltrops going in and that will get a lot of the adds on you. Inner Fire can taunt those pesky archers so they lob arrows at you instead of the healer. If the healer or a DPS gets an add that will not leave them alone they can run to the tank and the tank should if paying attention grab the add.

    As the game is now I don't think we need AoE taunts. If the adds hit a whole lot harder so the tank risked dying if he grabbed a whole room then maybe it would be something fun to play with.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • Jeremy
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    Conduit0 wrote: »
    This game has no cooldowns and without a cooldown to limit use an AOE taunt would be far too powerful. Its really that simple.

    Not only that - but the last thing this game needs right now is even more tools to help players zerg dungeons without a need for healers. This is already a serious problem with the game as is. Giving tanks access to AoE taunts so they could quickly accumulate all the adds would likely just make this problem even worse.
  • Dracan_Fontom
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    The thing with an AoE taunt is that if we have one, what's the point of a single target one? Imo, It would have to be set up to where the AoE taunt literally does NOTHING but taunt - no damage, no major fracture/breach, etc - so that it's still good to use but it wouldn't take the place of puncture permanently. Morphs imo would have to be simple as to make it not super useful but still be at least decent if used. I thought about maybe one morph could apply minor resistances to yourself for maybe 2 seconds, increasing in duration up to a max of maybe 15 or 20seconds max for the amount of enemies taunted. I... don't know what the other morph could realistically be... maybe it could be an AoE stun or something like that?

    Now, as tank main in FF14, I desperately wish there was an AoE taunt in this game.
  • Brodda
    Brodda
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    ...
    Also, i am pretty sure that in vet dungeons, if there was an aoe taunt, it would wipe you out in seconds. Imperial city prison comes to mind. Esp when on the lord warden, if you cold taunt all his shadows at once, the entire group would be wiped because you would be dead and everyone else would die trying to res you. ...

    Bit off topic, but I just had to reply here. When I am tanking this, I always take on ALL four of those shadows. Go to the middle, range taunt, pop reflective scales and voila, the group can take care of the shadows without any hassle. My self heals are enough to survive, so the healer can focus on others and help with dps.

    As for the AOE taunt, I think it is an unnecessary crutch, as someone pointed out already. Provided that the group lets you engage the mobs first, you can round them up nicely, AOE snare, taunt the biggest baddies and chain in the annoying ranged mobs on the outskirts.

    Dps and healers should be able to take care of themselves on thrash pulls and if they die, running around like headless chicken, then that's on them.

  • Jeremy
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    Brodda wrote: »

    Bit off topic, but I just had to reply here. When I am tanking this, I always take on ALL four of those shadows. Go to the middle, range taunt, pop reflective scales and voila, the group can take care of the shadows without any hassle. My self heals are enough to survive, so the healer can focus on others and help with dps.

    As for the AOE taunt, I think it is an unnecessary crutch, as someone pointed out already. Provided that the group lets you engage the mobs first, you can round them up nicely, AOE snare, taunt the biggest baddies and chain in the annoying ranged mobs on the outskirts.

    Dps and healers should be able to take care of themselves on thrash pulls and if they die, running around like headless chicken, then that's on them.

    I was going to say something similar, but then decided it would probably be better not to. But you're right - the Lord Warden's damage is comparatively low compared to many of the other bosses and an experienced tank can easily survive with all the shadows on him. That being said: I do remember how difficult that boss was back when I was a new player so I can understand where that poster is coming from. And I believe his point is still a valid one - even if the example wasn't up to date. Because there are some situations where you wouldn't want everything in the room attacking you.
    Edited by Jeremy on June 19, 2019 7:40AM
  • Ravena
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    Skills that stun enemies around you kinda work like AoE taunts in my experience.

    Gripping shards , for example. All the mobs stunned usually turn their attention to me.
  • Uryel
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    I do agree with OP, I'd love an AoE taunt.

    But since roles are not what they seem, and apparently people are fine with it, here's a clarification.

    "Damage Dealer" is Damage Dealer. And only that. They don't care one bit for their own survival, the more "glass canon", the better. If you can't ramp up 60+ K DPS on a dummy, which doesn't reflect one bit a real fight, you're bad. Really bad.

    "Tank" is actually Support. You're not supposed to actually tank. You can get rebukked for being "way too tanky"if you geared up for taking damage. You also lack the tools of the trade, as there is no AoE taunt. You are, however, supposed to PvP alot so you can get some apparently required ultimate from a PvP line that is soooo important to allow Damage Dealers to dish even more punishment. You're a somewhat resistant buff monkey who is only supposed to tank a little bit. Oh, and deal some damage too, mate, you wouldn't want to be useless.

    "Healer" is actually support too. You're supposed to heal somewhat, but also deal some damage and / or debuff stuff. Healing proper isn't your main activity.

    "Support", interestingly, isn't a category that exists despite corresponding to several actual roles. So if you have, say, nightblade vampire who uses a resto staff on both bars, one being an attack bar, one being as heal bar, so your damage is pretty bad, but you do it consistently on any number of enemies, all the while healing somewhat with every action (I do have a character like that), well... You can't fit in any of the roles and theoretically can only queue as a healer. But you don't debuff stuff, and you don't deal enough damage, so you'll be shuned.

    Best play with friends, and friends only, and ignore the naysayers.
    Edited by Uryel on June 19, 2019 9:22AM
  • Michaelkeir
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    OP here's some quick advice I had to learn as a tank. Coming from a game with AoE and single target taunts, i was not prepared for EsO either.

    -Be the first one to enter battle and drop an AoE stun, snare, or immobilize (crowd controls). Most tanks have one or more of these in their kits. Except Templars, so I use Time Spot from Psijic skill line.

    -Target the heavy hitters...better know as the 1-Shotters. These are priority. They can drop a team mate with 1 blow.

    -Once you have the "big bads" under control, continue droping your crowd controls on the other mobs. Start chaining or range taunting (Inner Rage) distant mobs to you. You don't have to run all over the room taunting mobs.

    -The 1 or 2 mobs you missed should not be an issuse to your dps. But if they keep dieing it's usually because they don't have a shield or low HP.

    -If done properly you should have everthing under control in less then 4-7 secs and most things should be dead or dieing by that point.

    No need for an AoE taunt. Granted....it would be easier in some cases...but not needed. I understand you having carpal tunnel and wanting an eaiser time taunting mobs, but that's sadly not going to happen.
  • zvavi
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    Also, i am pretty sure that in vet dungeons, if there was an aoe taunt, it would wipe you out in seconds. Imperial city prison comes to mind. Esp when on the lord warden, if you cold taunt all his shadows at once, the entire group would be wiped because you would be dead and everyone else would die trying to res you. Or what about that wall of ghosts in fang lair... they wipe out players as they march across the pit with the skeletal draon in it. imagine what an aoe taunt would do too you there? Or what about march of sacrfices, the three wyrd sisters you have to keep separated. an aoe taunt would be certain death for you. or what about all the poison exploding rodents in scalecaller peak? i'm not sure you know what you are asking for. Imagine what an aoe taunt would do to you with the two giant ogres in scale caller peak.

    Mmm i am sorry to tell you lady, i had comeback as a dd in vICP when 3 dead and 4 shades (kill 3 shades, keep 1 alive, res) so tank would survive. In vMoS i usually taunt both the shield and bow guy, the damage from the healer is non existent.
    vScalecaller peak, you guessed it. I taunt both orges. I even throw crushing shock once in a while to interrupt middle boss.
    And no. Still no to an aoe tank for me. why? Because the curve for skill vs reward for tank is that way.
    -Be the first one to enter battle and drop an AoE stun, snare, or immobilize (crowd controls). Most tanks have one or more of these in their kits. Except Templars, so I use Time Spot from Psijic skill line.
    Templars can do it too, dont remember the skill names, but usually adds are stacked, so charging in with your charge does it, and if you manage to get in first (with the charge it is ez :D) ritual of retribution for huge aoe soft taunt. Generally on all my tanks i engage first with wall of elements but i do have some problems with stupid dds sometimes. Cause u know. Pug life.
  • Wifeaggro13
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    I've been playing ESO for years and recently started trying to main a tank since dungeon queues take forever as a DPS. One thing i've noticed is how incredibly annoying it can be running around trying to agro everything because you have to get within such short range, and sometimes enemies get in the way of eachother and make it VERY difficult to agro everything. Even if you run into the room solo to try and get their attention first, they'll often auto-agro to your friendlies who are much further away. Manually agroing every enemy individually seems arbitrarily annoying.

    Like many gamers, i suffer from carpel tunnel syndrome, so spamming the same single ability can make my wrist hurt like hell, often making it difficult and unenjoyable to reach the end of a dungeon. I'm not asking for this game to be easy, but some basic accessibility features and common courtesy would be nice.

    So my question is: why arent AoE taunts a thing? What reason did ZoS have for not including it and why are so many players so resistant to the idea of it being implemented?
    Why not at least make shields have a passive that has an AoE agro while blocking or a basic war cry ability that deals no damage/debuff, but agros all nearby enemies within a small radius?

    Boils down to this. Zos did not really code a aggro table into this game at one time taunts could not be applied to multiple. If you spit a undaunted or a SNB stab the original target lost is taunt when you applied to another. All taunts are hard abilities or at least they are supposed to be. And being health is a false of a stat it does not matter if you have 30 k hp or 50 everything can be out healed so dps is never in any jeopardy. Tanking on the whole is just about useless as unicycle uphill for 95% of content any how
  • yodased
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    If you really want an aoe taunt it does exist in this game.

    30356481xv.png plus templar explosive charge will taunt the pack.

    DK running to the biggest guy and chaining everyone else to him is better than that.

    Tabk in this game is knowing how to control fights not simply being a meatshield who forces everyrhing to attack them.
    Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.
  • Wifeaggro13
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    yodased wrote: »
    If you really want an aoe taunt it does exist in this game.

    30356481xv.png plus templar explosive charge will taunt the pack.

    DK running to the biggest guy and chaining everyone else to him is better than that.

    Tabk in this game is knowing how to control fights not simply being a meatshield who forces everyrhing to attack them.

    It was sort of like this. Launch and 24 months post , it started to erode amongst the dps meta. Once you realize that the role of dps over shadows tank and heals and utility and CC are non existent the group dynamic really falls apart
  • idk
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    yodased wrote: »
    If you really want an aoe taunt it does exist in this game.

    30356481xv.png plus templar explosive charge will taunt the pack.

    DK running to the biggest guy and chaining everyone else to him is better than that.

    Tabk in this game is knowing how to control fights not simply being a meatshield who forces everyrhing to attack them.

    @yodased

    Have you tested this? We tested it a couple years ago with the templar explosive charge and it did not taunt other NPCs.
  • paulsimonps
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    For those that want an AoE Taunt in ESO:
    git-gud-28126051.png
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