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  • BloodBeast_ESO
    BloodBeast_ESO
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    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Also anyone can post on the forums i just can't believe how salty you get when the truth is revealed when it is brought up that RR is zerging down people in the same way as Army Of The Pact likes to do
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Heatnix90 wrote: »
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Having one all-guild group is not and never has been zerging. What Homicide does, refusing to do anything unless it's with 60 people at a time, is zerging. Bashu and RR do things the way PvP should be played (guild groups playing strategically instead of trolling), so hating on them for doing things the right way just makes you look absurd.

    I've got nothing against Bashu, but your logic here is a bit off. One all-guild group can absolutely be zerging. 24 people attacking a resource (or whatever objective) defended by, say 3 people, is most definitely zerging. Reasoning and strategy are irrelevant when it comes to zerging. The most used definition of zerging is anti-reasoning/strategy: using overwhelming numbers to achieve a goal/victory rather then relying on technique or strategy. The word "overwhelming" here is open to interpretation, but I like to think of it as triple numbers or higher (in most situations).

    That doesn't mean people need to be ashamed of zerging. Everyone has done it, and will do it. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes unintentionally. Best thing to do is either ignore the complaints, or empathize (because everyone's been zerged down at some point) and maybe make a new friend.

    No, one all-guild group cannot be zerging. Zerging is specifically intentionally using numbers instead of coordination/strategy. One guild group is using coordination/strategy. More than that is just throwing numbers, or pulling extra pugs whom you're not coordinating with. But using the limit for one group as set by ZOS is most certainly not zerging. The enemy group having more players than you is not automatically zerging. It's only if they are intentionally using large numbers instead of strategizing/coordinating within the group.

    Mate I was just in Cyrodiil, and what your/Bashu's group was doing was in no way "coordinated" it was straight up zerging. Don't try to play it off as anything else besides that.

    Thanks for the AP btw, 2 bombs on the flags at chalman resources got me my tier 1 on bomblade #1, time to roll out bombblade #2

    i was watching a stream and surprise surprise RR got wiped at chalman by 12 ep members 24vs12 thought that was funny as hell

    Lol, it was 50 EP vs 20 RR. You're a chronic liar. Heatnix too. How pathetic.
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Heatnix90 wrote: »
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Having one all-guild group is not and never has been zerging. What Homicide does, refusing to do anything unless it's with 60 people at a time, is zerging. Bashu and RR do things the way PvP should be played (guild groups playing strategically instead of trolling), so hating on them for doing things the right way just makes you look absurd.

    I've got nothing against Bashu, but your logic here is a bit off. One all-guild group can absolutely be zerging. 24 people attacking a resource (or whatever objective) defended by, say 3 people, is most definitely zerging. Reasoning and strategy are irrelevant when it comes to zerging. The most used definition of zerging is anti-reasoning/strategy: using overwhelming numbers to achieve a goal/victory rather then relying on technique or strategy. The word "overwhelming" here is open to interpretation, but I like to think of it as triple numbers or higher (in most situations).

    That doesn't mean people need to be ashamed of zerging. Everyone has done it, and will do it. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes unintentionally. Best thing to do is either ignore the complaints, or empathize (because everyone's been zerged down at some point) and maybe make a new friend.

    No, one all-guild group cannot be zerging. Zerging is specifically intentionally using numbers instead of coordination/strategy. One guild group is using coordination/strategy. More than that is just throwing numbers, or pulling extra pugs whom you're not coordinating with. But using the limit for one group as set by ZOS is most certainly not zerging. The enemy group having more players than you is not automatically zerging. It's only if they are intentionally using large numbers instead of strategizing/coordinating within the group.

    Mate I was just in Cyrodiil, and what your/Bashu's group was doing was in no way "coordinated" it was straight up zerging. Don't try to play it off as anything else besides that.

    Thanks for the AP btw, 2 bombs on the flags at chalman resources got me my tier 1 on bomblade #1, time to roll out bombblade #2

    Dude, you are delusional and a liar. RR had less than a full group, and got attacked by over 50 EP. There was certainly a zerg there, it was yours. And we still wiped you multiple times. Your lying is getting ridiculous.

    that's funny because during that stream i counted 24 dc players vs 12 ep and 4 ad so are you saying that there were 50 others there that seems untrue to me and you want to call me and heatnix a liar when you can't even keep your story straight

    You did not count that on a stream. It didn't happen. You are flat-out lying. It's been an EP Zerg all night. What you claim to see never happened. You have fully discredited yourself, and Heatnix. Pathological liars like you two have no place on the forums, begone trolls.

    you can see it on the streamers miats counter you would know that if you ever used miats as for what it said DC24 EP12 and AD4 i would make sure next time you try and say your not a zergling try not to make such lame attempts to cover the fact you lied when you said you are not zerging down the map when a streamers Miats counter says otherwise.

    Looked for it, have not found anything. Looks like you flat-out made this one up too and lied yet again. If you'd like to provide the stream you claims shows it, go ahead. But I'm pretty sure anything you could post would just show that you're lying, and you'd get kicked off the forums for repeatedly lying and making childish personal attacks on the person posting what actually happened in reality.

    man you really cannot let this go you get called out and you keep coming back
    Give only steel, and take only blood.
    GM Art Of War EU
  • Heatnix90
    Heatnix90
    ✭✭✭✭
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Heatnix90 wrote: »
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Having one all-guild group is not and never has been zerging. What Homicide does, refusing to do anything unless it's with 60 people at a time, is zerging. Bashu and RR do things the way PvP should be played (guild groups playing strategically instead of trolling), so hating on them for doing things the right way just makes you look absurd.

    I've got nothing against Bashu, but your logic here is a bit off. One all-guild group can absolutely be zerging. 24 people attacking a resource (or whatever objective) defended by, say 3 people, is most definitely zerging. Reasoning and strategy are irrelevant when it comes to zerging. The most used definition of zerging is anti-reasoning/strategy: using overwhelming numbers to achieve a goal/victory rather then relying on technique or strategy. The word "overwhelming" here is open to interpretation, but I like to think of it as triple numbers or higher (in most situations).

    That doesn't mean people need to be ashamed of zerging. Everyone has done it, and will do it. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes unintentionally. Best thing to do is either ignore the complaints, or empathize (because everyone's been zerged down at some point) and maybe make a new friend.

    No, one all-guild group cannot be zerging. Zerging is specifically intentionally using numbers instead of coordination/strategy. One guild group is using coordination/strategy. More than that is just throwing numbers, or pulling extra pugs whom you're not coordinating with. But using the limit for one group as set by ZOS is most certainly not zerging. The enemy group having more players than you is not automatically zerging. It's only if they are intentionally using large numbers instead of strategizing/coordinating within the group.

    Mate I was just in Cyrodiil, and what your/Bashu's group was doing was in no way "coordinated" it was straight up zerging. Don't try to play it off as anything else besides that.

    Thanks for the AP btw, 2 bombs on the flags at chalman resources got me my tier 1 on bomblade #1, time to roll out bombblade #2

    Dude, you are delusional and a liar. RR had less than a full group, and got attacked by over 50 EP. There was certainly a zerg there, it was yours. And we still wiped you multiple times. Your lying is getting ridiculous.

    50 EP OMEGALUL

    Had to actually pull up a shadowplay from tonight
    1MGfFz6.png

    That was HALF of DC running around Bleaks, the rest of them are off screen rushing out of Bleaks. Feel free to disprove that y'all weren't zerging. By my count there were 19 in this screencap.

    (No, just because they're not in group doesn't mean they don't count)
    Edited by Heatnix90 on September 7, 2019 4:57AM
    Heatnix - NA/PC
    Chill Bros Chat Lounge
  • BloodBeast_ESO
    BloodBeast_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    Heatnix90 wrote: »
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Heatnix90 wrote: »
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Having one all-guild group is not and never has been zerging. What Homicide does, refusing to do anything unless it's with 60 people at a time, is zerging. Bashu and RR do things the way PvP should be played (guild groups playing strategically instead of trolling), so hating on them for doing things the right way just makes you look absurd.

    I've got nothing against Bashu, but your logic here is a bit off. One all-guild group can absolutely be zerging. 24 people attacking a resource (or whatever objective) defended by, say 3 people, is most definitely zerging. Reasoning and strategy are irrelevant when it comes to zerging. The most used definition of zerging is anti-reasoning/strategy: using overwhelming numbers to achieve a goal/victory rather then relying on technique or strategy. The word "overwhelming" here is open to interpretation, but I like to think of it as triple numbers or higher (in most situations).

    That doesn't mean people need to be ashamed of zerging. Everyone has done it, and will do it. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes unintentionally. Best thing to do is either ignore the complaints, or empathize (because everyone's been zerged down at some point) and maybe make a new friend.

    No, one all-guild group cannot be zerging. Zerging is specifically intentionally using numbers instead of coordination/strategy. One guild group is using coordination/strategy. More than that is just throwing numbers, or pulling extra pugs whom you're not coordinating with. But using the limit for one group as set by ZOS is most certainly not zerging. The enemy group having more players than you is not automatically zerging. It's only if they are intentionally using large numbers instead of strategizing/coordinating within the group.

    Mate I was just in Cyrodiil, and what your/Bashu's group was doing was in no way "coordinated" it was straight up zerging. Don't try to play it off as anything else besides that.

    Thanks for the AP btw, 2 bombs on the flags at chalman resources got me my tier 1 on bomblade #1, time to roll out bombblade #2

    Dude, you are delusional and a liar. RR had less than a full group, and got attacked by over 50 EP. There was certainly a zerg there, it was yours. And we still wiped you multiple times. Your lying is getting ridiculous.

    50 EP OMEGALUL

    Had to actually pull up a shadowplay from tonight
    1MGfFz6.png

    That's HALF of DC, the rest of them are off screen rushing out of Bleaks. Feel free to disprove that y'all weren't zerging.

    (No, just because they're not in group doesn't mean they don't count)

    now watch him say that's not correct and now we wait for him to reply on his next post
    Edited by BloodBeast_ESO on September 7, 2019 5:03AM
    Give only steel, and take only blood.
    GM Art Of War EU
  • MojaveHeld
    MojaveHeld
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    We fought two separate EP guilds at the same time at Bleak's at one point, so if that's RR, you're omitting from the screenshot that your group was much larger. You're lying to everyone's faces yet again.
  • Enkil
    Enkil
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    y'all are a TRIP!!! I make a comment and post a pic about PvDoorers being care bears and it gets deleted by mods. hmmm :D

    Edited by Enkil on September 7, 2019 7:34AM
    @Enlil | Añu Warden | Lex Lumen Templar | Enkîl DK | Énkî Sorc | Éreshkigal Necro | Eñlil Sorc | Inaña NB | Mes NB | Ninhursåg Warden | NA Mac/PC

    Former Shadowbane Channeler Class Advocate | Guild/Nation Leader - Obsidian Overlords/Ministry of Chaos | Entropy & Redemption
  • BloodBeast_ESO
    BloodBeast_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    We fought two separate EP guilds at the same time at Bleak's at one point, so if that's RR, you're omitting from the screenshot that your group was much larger. You're lying to everyone's faces yet again.

    @Heatnix90 if you got any more screenshots post them man this is getting good now
    Give only steel, and take only blood.
    GM Art Of War EU
  • BloodBeast_ESO
    BloodBeast_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    Enkil wrote: »
    y'all are a TRIP!!! I make a comment and post a pic about PvDoorers being care bears and it gets deleted my mods. hmmm :D

    what's funny is i asked the mods to close this thread because its going to become a cesspool in here and they did not even do it so i guess they really want a reason why they should have closed it
    Give only steel, and take only blood.
    GM Art Of War EU
  • MojaveHeld
    MojaveHeld
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Enkil wrote: »
    y'all are a TRIP!!! I make a comment and post a pic about PvDoorers being care bears and it gets deleted my mods. hmmm :D

    what's funny is i asked the mods to close this thread because its going to become a cesspool in here and they did not even do it so i guess they really want a reason why they should have closed it

    You do seem to be pretty intent on giving them a reason to do that all by your behavior here.
  • BloodBeast_ESO
    BloodBeast_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Enkil wrote: »
    y'all are a TRIP!!! I make a comment and post a pic about PvDoorers being care bears and it gets deleted my mods. hmmm :D

    what's funny is i asked the mods to close this thread because its going to become a cesspool in here and they did not even do it so i guess they really want a reason why they should have closed it

    You do seem to be pretty intent on giving them a reason to do that all by your behavior here.

    lets look at that screenshot again and count how many people are there zerging down 5 players
    Give only steel, and take only blood.
    GM Art Of War EU
  • esotoon
    esotoon
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    Nice fights tonight. Yes there were fights when EP had the numbers. Yes there were fights when DC had numbers. EP had Emp and the Hammer and arguably numbers for over an hour, but also had to deal with DC hitting them from one side and AD from the other.

    You will NEVER get fair fights in Cyrodiil. If that is what you are after you are in the wrong place.

    Good job with the Emp Keep defence EP.
    Edited by esotoon on September 7, 2019 5:24AM
  • MojaveHeld
    MojaveHeld
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Enkil wrote: »
    y'all are a TRIP!!! I make a comment and post a pic about PvDoorers being care bears and it gets deleted my mods. hmmm :D

    what's funny is i asked the mods to close this thread because its going to become a cesspool in here and they did not even do it so i guess they really want a reason why they should have closed it

    You do seem to be pretty intent on giving them a reason to do that all by your behavior here.

    lets look at that screenshot again and count how many people are there zerging down 5 players

    That's not 5 EP players. I encountered Heatnix several times tonight, and every single time it was only when they outnumbered us by large margins. Heatnix was part of the EP zerg group every time I saw him.
  • Heatnix90
    Heatnix90
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    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Enkil wrote: »
    y'all are a TRIP!!! I make a comment and post a pic about PvDoorers being care bears and it gets deleted my mods. hmmm :D

    what's funny is i asked the mods to close this thread because its going to become a cesspool in here and they did not even do it so i guess they really want a reason why they should have closed it

    You do seem to be pretty intent on giving them a reason to do that all by your behavior here.

    lets look at that screenshot again and count how many people are there zerging down 5 players

    I'll be fair and say that there were at least equal numbers on the EP side, but not 50 like mans is claiming we had.

    But again I posted picture proof and no one else has so...
    Heatnix - NA/PC
    Chill Bros Chat Lounge
  • BloodBeast_ESO
    BloodBeast_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Enkil wrote: »
    y'all are a TRIP!!! I make a comment and post a pic about PvDoorers being care bears and it gets deleted my mods. hmmm :D

    what's funny is i asked the mods to close this thread because its going to become a cesspool in here and they did not even do it so i guess they really want a reason why they should have closed it

    You do seem to be pretty intent on giving them a reason to do that all by your behavior here.

    lets look at that screenshot again and count how many people are there zerging down 5 players

    That's not 5 EP players. I encountered Heatnix several times tonight, and every single time it was only when they outnumbered us by large margins. Heatnix was part of the EP zerg group every time I saw him.

    sure my friend sure i counted 5 ep vs 20 dc you might want to recheck your math its seems off to me
    Edited by BloodBeast_ESO on September 7, 2019 5:26AM
    Give only steel, and take only blood.
    GM Art Of War EU
  • MojaveHeld
    MojaveHeld
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    Sadly, nobody streamed tonight in RR. Would love nothing more than to post the video showing less than a full group of RR taking on over 50 EP, with Heatnix right there. Actually, you'd see that same scene multiple times. But, unfortunately, the only ones who would have that video are any EP who were streaming, and they're never gonna post it, because it will prove that they've been lying here.
  • Crash427
    Crash427
    Soul Shriven
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Having one all-guild group is not and never has been zerging. What Homicide does, refusing to do anything unless it's with 60 people at a time, is zerging. Bashu and RR do things the way PvP should be played (guild groups playing strategically instead of trolling), so hating on them for doing things the right way just makes you look absurd.

    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and not call you a liar, because we are known for our large groups. I'll just assume you're mistaken and didn't realize we run groups of all sizes, and some of us even like to solo around in Cyro. I have the vids and pics if you don't believe me.

    We started building our guild up around the time the Orc Army was steamrolling everything last year. Then LoM showed up rolling deep and said they were looking for huge epic fights. We were happy to oblige and went to Grahtwood and recruited more. The bigger the better. Yes it's chaos and the lag sucks and everything else, but it was fun for awhile. Now those opposing guilds that wanted to play large scale have moved on and so we are too. For what it's worth, we were public about our schedule, we moved it to match LoM's when they were running big, and we mostly tried to keep our antics to the ring.

    We also geared every single person we brought in from PVE land. We tried different things, some worked and some didn't, but every new recruit got a set of something with all traits impen at no cost to them. We did carries for any player that needed any monster helm. I personally have run Spindleclutch II so many times i don't even want to think about it, but if someone joined up tomorrow and they needed Bloodspawn i'd be right there x'ing up in guild chat for another run. We didn't just pick up pugs and throw them into the fire to absorb ult dumps.

    I don't come to the forums and cry if i get zerged down and tea bagged(to their credit i can't ever recall being teabagged by RR though). I know what guild tabard i'm wearing. If you ever run large groups or stack then you have to expect some of that Cyro karma to come back, and i've seen RR in some pretty huge stacks.
  • BloodBeast_ESO
    BloodBeast_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Sadly, nobody streamed tonight in RR. Would love nothing more than to post the video showing less than a full group of RR taking on over 50 EP, with Heatnix right there. Actually, you'd see that same scene multiple times. But, unfortunately, the only ones who would have that video are any EP who were streaming, and they're never gonna post it, because it will prove that they've been lying here.

    you're more then welcome to post proof of the half full group run you say happened in fact i would welcome it but i don't expect it because you don't have any proof
    Give only steel, and take only blood.
    GM Art Of War EU
  • MojaveHeld
    MojaveHeld
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    esotoon wrote: »
    Nice fights tonight. Yes there were fights when EP had the numbers. Yes there were fights when DC had numbers. EP had Emp and the Hammer and arguably numbers for over an hour, but also had to deal with DC hitting them from one side and AD from the other.

    You will NEVER get fair fights in Cyrodiil. If that is what you are after you are in the wrong place.

    Good job with the Emp Keep defence EP.

    Yeah, I will say that EP used the Emp and hammer really well together tonight. Made for some good fights, but no end of frustration for us when the hammer and the whole zerg with it would come right back at us 3 minutes after we had last seen them. Sometimes you're not able to accomplish your main objectives for the night, but getting to be part of a bunch of great fights more than makes up for that, personally.
  • Enkil
    Enkil
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    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    esotoon wrote: »
    Nice fights tonight. Yes there were fights when EP had the numbers. Yes there were fights when DC had numbers. EP had Emp and the Hammer and arguably numbers for over an hour, but also had to deal with DC hitting them from one side and AD from the other.

    You will NEVER get fair fights in Cyrodiil. If that is what you are after you are in the wrong place.

    Good job with the Emp Keep defence EP.

    Yeah, I will say that EP used the Emp and hammer really well together tonight. Made for some good fights, but no end of frustration for us when the hammer and the whole zerg with it would come right back at us 3 minutes after we had last seen them. Sometimes you're not able to accomplish your main objectives for the night, but getting to be part of a bunch of great fights more than makes up for that, personally.

    The goal for all should be to bring the awesome fights to their enemies. Sure, it's nice to win the campaign, but that is a once a month thing and means jack-sh*t to many players (like myself).

    If leaders and players on all sides would focus more on bringing solid fights to the enemies whenever they play, always being mindful of their numbers and taking care not to overwhelm, campaign would be more fun for everyone. Hell maybe we can even get a few players to maintain an interest in PvP and stay to play with us more often than not. Pop been dwindling for months and we all know no-CP Cyro needs players to continue to be fun.

    Edited by Enkil on September 7, 2019 6:11AM
    @Enlil | Añu Warden | Lex Lumen Templar | Enkîl DK | Énkî Sorc | Éreshkigal Necro | Eñlil Sorc | Inaña NB | Mes NB | Ninhursåg Warden | NA Mac/PC

    Former Shadowbane Channeler Class Advocate | Guild/Nation Leader - Obsidian Overlords/Ministry of Chaos | Entropy & Redemption
  • KINGOFTHESKULLS
    KINGOFTHESKULLS
    Soul Shriven
    Heatnix90 wrote: »
    What is the point of streaming if not to demonstrate quality of play? And what is better quality of play than equals fighting?
    Pfft bold of you to assume that this streamer wants to showcase equal fights that have the potential to go both ways. Can't make content or get embedded viewers when you lose.
    ykculnu wrote: »
    I think AD does well without streamers TBH. They typically dominate most nights particularly thurs-sat with massive numbers. AD's issues is they don't stay on to defend after getting the emp ring and the scrolls. So night cappers just take it all back and they don't catch up in the score. They also aren't consistent at all during other days of the week.
    Why bother staying on if no one's around? I gotta give credit to AD, at least they have the decency to leave once they zerg down the map and not sit at trikeeps or gates like Bashu has been doing recently.
    Jazira wrote: »
    I am going to explain to you all Bashu's play style, in case you are wondering. He is a war strategist and wants to wants to win the map. He does not care about PvDoor, or even AP (unless he is emping). What he cares about is winning the campaign. You win the campaign by having the most points, which sometimes means taking empty keeps. Most of the time there are fights to be had - we all love that.

    Possibly even than that though, he cares about training people that are new to Cyrodiil because he wants DC to thrive and have good players that understand PvP. Most of the people he has trained have went on to other endeavors. Some of us have stayed because he is a good person and fun to play with. But overall, the "zerg" you are talking about is groups of people that he takes the time to teach Cyrodiil to. If nothing else, you can appreciate that he is willing to spend his time doing that, when many people are too elitist or cliquish to consider it.

    And on the other hand, his guild Rough Riders has some awesome group builds that people of a certain rank can access. These group builds are super strong, work together, and are made to take on large groups of people. From Bashu's perspective, Cyrodiil is made for large combat battles. Hence the reason that we are allowed to be in groups of 24, coordinate on Discord, and that the map has such a large population lock. Cyro is meant for large groups. There is nothing zerglike about taking on other large pvp groups when you have coordinated attacks, group gear builds that work together, and train to be a specialized team.

    Other guilds and people do what Bashu does - play the map, train people, have group builds, use Discord. But lately only Bashu has seen the hate for it. Perhaps you all are misunderstanding his intention, or are jealous. But he is a kind guild leader, an excellent strategist, and generally tells us not to "pug out" and go after one or two people when we are a large group. I feel fortunate to have played with him the last 2 years of pvping, and I am enjoying my group builds. We love fighting large groups, defending keeps, and welcome all challenges and aspects of pvp. If anything, we would like to be able to play in peace with our own faction, with mutual respect for other factions, and just enjoy our time on a video game. Please stop taking everything so personally, and so seriously.

    How about the first 10 days of campaign when they were literally right outside EP base doors waiting for people to come out?
    they killed the PvP for almost a week.
    Sunder And Keening Officer
    Death's Head Legion Officer
    Black Flag Officer
    Former Empress
    Pact Forever
    CP 900+
    Leaves-No-Cross-UnturnedMagSorc
  • KINGOFTHESKULLS
    KINGOFTHESKULLS
    Soul Shriven
    Kartalin wrote: »
    Heatnix90 wrote: »
    I think I speak for most actual PvPers here when I say that campaign wins are meaningless and a joke, and that we would rather have some decent fights instead of either facerolling the map, or getting facerolled at a resource by 10x the numbers we bring.

    Absolutely. This is why faction locks have been so bad, if your faction is dominating your only options are to go to a different campaign or just not play, which sucks if you really enjoy no cp pvp like we do. I guess BGs are an option but we really like the spontaneity of cyrodiil pvp.

    The large zergs we see in this campaign are a sort of arms race. One faction starts running large groups so the other factions start doing the same. With the state of the campaign right now I don't know if anyone should be running a full 24, especially not multiple large raids.

    Still, lot of respect for Bashu for bringing the fight regardless of the numbers they face, especially when the other factions are dominating population-wise. It's really just unfortunate how inconsistent the populations are.

    I disagree with you about the faction lock part , I don't know if it happens to AD or DC but since everyone is scared of EP and they try their hardest to prevent EP from winning , the whole zone is swarming with spies.
    Or that new troll guild "Vile" , they have their people on EP sending information like "Lil Maos" handing the hammer to AD and dumping scrolls in water just to troll and creating a super toxic zone chat , people on DC helping AD just to beat EP.
    So imagine if there was no faction lock , it could've been worse.
    Sunder And Keening Officer
    Death's Head Legion Officer
    Black Flag Officer
    Former Empress
    Pact Forever
    CP 900+
    Leaves-No-Cross-UnturnedMagSorc
  • KINGOFTHESKULLS
    KINGOFTHESKULLS
    Soul Shriven
    I must admit , before EP had the hammer tonight it was only around 20 EP moving between chal and blks.
    that one time we wiped at blks miat's said 26 DC , 18 EP.
    I wish we could have 50.
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Heatnix90 wrote: »
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Having one all-guild group is not and never has been zerging. What Homicide does, refusing to do anything unless it's with 60 people at a time, is zerging. Bashu and RR do things the way PvP should be played (guild groups playing strategically instead of trolling), so hating on them for doing things the right way just makes you look absurd.

    I've got nothing against Bashu, but your logic here is a bit off. One all-guild group can absolutely be zerging. 24 people attacking a resource (or whatever objective) defended by, say 3 people, is most definitely zerging. Reasoning and strategy are irrelevant when it comes to zerging. The most used definition of zerging is anti-reasoning/strategy: using overwhelming numbers to achieve a goal/victory rather then relying on technique or strategy. The word "overwhelming" here is open to interpretation, but I like to think of it as triple numbers or higher (in most situations).

    That doesn't mean people need to be ashamed of zerging. Everyone has done it, and will do it. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes unintentionally. Best thing to do is either ignore the complaints, or empathize (because everyone's been zerged down at some point) and maybe make a new friend.

    No, one all-guild group cannot be zerging. Zerging is specifically intentionally using numbers instead of coordination/strategy. One guild group is using coordination/strategy. More than that is just throwing numbers, or pulling extra pugs whom you're not coordinating with. But using the limit for one group as set by ZOS is most certainly not zerging. The enemy group having more players than you is not automatically zerging. It's only if they are intentionally using large numbers instead of strategizing/coordinating within the group.

    Mate I was just in Cyrodiil, and what your/Bashu's group was doing was in no way "coordinated" it was straight up zerging. Don't try to play it off as anything else besides that.

    Thanks for the AP btw, 2 bombs on the flags at chalman resources got me my tier 1 on bomblade #1, time to roll out bombblade #2

    i was watching a stream and surprise surprise RR got wiped at chalman by 12 ep members 24vs12 thought that was funny as hell

    Lol, it was 50 EP vs 20 RR. You're a chronic liar. Heatnix too. How pathetic.

    I must admit , before EP had the hammer tonight it was only around 15 EP moving between chal and blks.
    when we wiped you at blks miat's said 24 DC , 14 EP and only 10 in my group (SK).
    I wish we could have 50.
    So i'm pretty sure you have it wrong.
    Sunder And Keening Officer
    Death's Head Legion Officer
    Black Flag Officer
    Former Empress
    Pact Forever
    CP 900+
    Leaves-No-Cross-UnturnedMagSorc
  • MojaveHeld
    MojaveHeld
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I must admit , before EP had the hammer tonight it was only around 20 EP moving between chal and blks.
    that one time we wiped at blks miat's said 26 DC , 18 EP.
    I wish we could have 50.
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Heatnix90 wrote: »
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Having one all-guild group is not and never has been zerging. What Homicide does, refusing to do anything unless it's with 60 people at a time, is zerging. Bashu and RR do things the way PvP should be played (guild groups playing strategically instead of trolling), so hating on them for doing things the right way just makes you look absurd.

    I've got nothing against Bashu, but your logic here is a bit off. One all-guild group can absolutely be zerging. 24 people attacking a resource (or whatever objective) defended by, say 3 people, is most definitely zerging. Reasoning and strategy are irrelevant when it comes to zerging. The most used definition of zerging is anti-reasoning/strategy: using overwhelming numbers to achieve a goal/victory rather then relying on technique or strategy. The word "overwhelming" here is open to interpretation, but I like to think of it as triple numbers or higher (in most situations).

    That doesn't mean people need to be ashamed of zerging. Everyone has done it, and will do it. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes unintentionally. Best thing to do is either ignore the complaints, or empathize (because everyone's been zerged down at some point) and maybe make a new friend.

    No, one all-guild group cannot be zerging. Zerging is specifically intentionally using numbers instead of coordination/strategy. One guild group is using coordination/strategy. More than that is just throwing numbers, or pulling extra pugs whom you're not coordinating with. But using the limit for one group as set by ZOS is most certainly not zerging. The enemy group having more players than you is not automatically zerging. It's only if they are intentionally using large numbers instead of strategizing/coordinating within the group.

    Mate I was just in Cyrodiil, and what your/Bashu's group was doing was in no way "coordinated" it was straight up zerging. Don't try to play it off as anything else besides that.

    Thanks for the AP btw, 2 bombs on the flags at chalman resources got me my tier 1 on bomblade #1, time to roll out bombblade #2

    i was watching a stream and surprise surprise RR got wiped at chalman by 12 ep members 24vs12 thought that was funny as hell

    Lol, it was 50 EP vs 20 RR. You're a chronic liar. Heatnix too. How pathetic.

    I must admit , before EP had the hammer tonight it was only around 15 EP moving between chal and blks.
    when we wiped you at blks miat's said 24 DC , 14 EP and only 10 in my group (SK).
    I wish we could have 50.
    So i'm pretty sure you have it wrong.

    That is also incorrect. The only time I can remember where we got wiped at Bleak's was by the hammer zerg, which was much greater than those numbers you claim. All the rest were our victory there. Unless that was an entirely different DC group you encountered, you are severely mistaken here.
    Edited by MojaveHeld on September 7, 2019 5:53PM
  • Heimpai
    Heimpai
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Sadly, nobody streamed tonight in RR. Would love nothing more than to post the video showing less than a full group of RR taking on over 50 EP, with Heatnix right there. Actually, you'd see that same scene multiple times. But, unfortunately, the only ones who would have that video are any EP who were streaming, and they're never gonna post it, because it will prove that they've been lying here.

    What you’d see is 20+dc failing to take chal while the hammer group you speak of was fighting ad at brk..or maybe you’re referring to when ad flagged chal multiple times and you showed up after and wiped?

    I usually don’t get into this but it’s on you..siege better and you beat the hammer group back to chal..And if you think the 10 EP that stayed at chal was 50 then there’s nothing more to say..clearly

    When i got on 7pm pst it was 2 bars across then ad logged later while ep gained a bar, thing is it was 4-3 bars vs 2 most those fights..you weren’t outnumbered just outplayed, till later (better siege would have given you the dethrone multiple times, i hope you bring that up so they learn from it)

    I like Bashu and his crew so i dislike how i made this comment but enough of your lies
  • kpittsniperb14_ESO
    kpittsniperb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭
    Kartalin wrote: »
    Heatnix90 wrote: »
    I think I speak for most actual PvPers here when I say that campaign wins are meaningless and a joke, and that we would rather have some decent fights instead of either facerolling the map, or getting facerolled at a resource by 10x the numbers we bring.

    Absolutely. This is why faction locks have been so bad, if your faction is dominating your only options are to go to a different campaign or just not play, which sucks if you really enjoy no cp pvp like we do. I guess BGs are an option but we really like the spontaneity of cyrodiil pvp.

    The large zergs we see in this campaign are a sort of arms race. One faction starts running large groups so the other factions start doing the same. With the state of the campaign right now I don't know if anyone should be running a full 24, especially not multiple large raids.

    Still, lot of respect for Bashu for bringing the fight regardless of the numbers they face, especially when the other factions are dominating population-wise. It's really just unfortunate how inconsistent the populations are.

    I disagree with you about the faction lock part , I don't know if it happens to AD or DC but since everyone is scared of EP and they try their hardest to prevent EP from winning , the whole zone is swarming with spies.
    Or that new troll guild "Vile" , they have their people on EP sending information like "Lil Maos" handing the hammer to AD and dumping scrolls in water just to troll and creating a super toxic zone chat , people on DC helping AD just to beat EP.
    So imagine if there was no faction lock , it could've been worse.

    I'm not so sure anyone on this server is afraid of EP.
    Magicka DK-Rowsdowerr
    Tertiary Meat GM
    "they're going to say, there's Daniel and he has 20 people with him, I want to kill him and there's
    40 more behind me."
    "I'm tired of the BS excuses, if you're going to do what you do at least admit what you're doing"
    YEEEEEAAAAAHHHH!!!
  • kpittsniperb14_ESO
    kpittsniperb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Having one all-guild group is not and never has been zerging. What Homicide does, refusing to do anything unless it's with 60 people at a time, is zerging. Bashu and RR do things the way PvP should be played (guild groups playing strategically instead of trolling), so hating on them for doing things the right way just makes you look absurd.

    So apparently naming and praising is also off the menu with these moderators lol. Can we at least all agree that off hours capping and then gate camping is not healthy for the server? Can we all agree that winning the campaign for the 23rd out of the last 26 campaigns shouldn't take priority over the health of the campaign? Can we all agree that stacking your entire faction in one location consistently causing massive server lag isn't healthy? The un named AD guild of which you speak is a direct response to un named DC groups faction stacking routinely in primetime, doesn't make it right but there it is. If EP had the numbers and organization to do the same you can guarantee they would....and have in the past. All these things can happen in an organic way from time to time and can't be helped but that's not what people are upset about. What's been happening on this server the last several months has been done intentionally and really needs to stop if we want there to be population left on non cp. If winning a campaign means so much to people my I suggest "dominating" the 7 day cp campaign, at least it's already dead.
    Magicka DK-Rowsdowerr
    Tertiary Meat GM
    "they're going to say, there's Daniel and he has 20 people with him, I want to kill him and there's
    40 more behind me."
    "I'm tired of the BS excuses, if you're going to do what you do at least admit what you're doing"
    YEEEEEAAAAAHHHH!!!
  • edges_endgame
    edges_endgame
    ✭✭✭
    Heimpai wrote: »
    Heatnix90 wrote: »
    Jazira wrote: »
    tl;dr
    So basically, win the campaign at the cost of the campaign's health. A+ strats

    No, really, if he wants to win that badly he can continue to do what he does, he just better be ready to experience nothing but hollow victories because his desire to win kills the campaign.

    I think I speak for most actual PvPers here when I say that campaign wins are meaningless and a joke, and that we would rather have some decent fights instead of either facerolling the map, or getting facerolled at a resource by 10x the numbers we bring.

    If you look at vivec DC is camping AD‘s tri‘s and gate camping EP..I obv logged..nice to know it’s a dc trait not just 1 guy

    I should mention that gate camping is why i quit sotha/bagoldick to begin with

    This is a Sotha thread... Not trying to be mean but I don't care about Vivec here. 😉
  • Heimpai
    Heimpai
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Heimpai wrote: »
    Heatnix90 wrote: »
    Jazira wrote: »
    tl;dr
    So basically, win the campaign at the cost of the campaign's health. A+ strats

    No, really, if he wants to win that badly he can continue to do what he does, he just better be ready to experience nothing but hollow victories because his desire to win kills the campaign.

    I think I speak for most actual PvPers here when I say that campaign wins are meaningless and a joke, and that we would rather have some decent fights instead of either facerolling the map, or getting facerolled at a resource by 10x the numbers we bring.

    If you look at vivec DC is camping AD‘s tri‘s and gate camping EP..I obv logged..nice to know it’s a dc trait not just 1 guy

    I should mention that gate camping is why i quit sotha/bagoldick to begin with

    This is a Sotha thread... Not trying to be mean but I don't care about Vivec here. 😉

    Oh it appears i was in the wrong thread..oh wait we were talking about dc sucking the life out of pvp with their gate camping groups

    I also don’t care what you care about
  • PenguinInACan
    PenguinInACan
    ✭✭✭✭
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    MojaveHeld wrote: »
    Having one all-guild group is not and never has been zerging. What Homicide does, refusing to do anything unless it's with 60 people at a time, is zerging. Bashu and RR do things the way PvP should be played (guild groups playing strategically instead of trolling), so hating on them for doing things the right way just makes you look absurd.

    I've got nothing against Bashu, but your logic here is a bit off. One all-guild group can absolutely be zerging. 24 people attacking a resource (or whatever objective) defended by, say 3 people, is most definitely zerging. Reasoning and strategy are irrelevant when it comes to zerging. The most used definition of zerging is anti-reasoning/strategy: using overwhelming numbers to achieve a goal/victory rather then relying on technique or strategy. The word "overwhelming" here is open to interpretation, but I like to think of it as triple numbers or higher (in most situations).

    That doesn't mean people need to be ashamed of zerging. Everyone has done it, and will do it. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes unintentionally. Best thing to do is either ignore the complaints, or empathize (because everyone's been zerged down at some point) and maybe make a new friend.

    No, one all-guild group cannot be zerging. Zerging is specifically intentionally using numbers instead of coordination/strategy. One guild group is using coordination/strategy. More than that is just throwing numbers, or pulling extra pugs whom you're not coordinating with. But using the limit for one group as set by ZOS is most certainly not zerging. The enemy group having more players than you is not automatically zerging. It's only if they are intentionally using large numbers instead of strategizing/coordinating within the group.

    I'm a little confused. 24 people coordinated together is literally the definition intentionally using large numbers (in most situations), therefore overwhelming the enemy, requiring less strategic play. My guild runs 10-12 very organized and coordinated, and there have been several situations where I would consider us a "zerg" based on the context of a fight. ZOS's group limit shouldn't have anything to do with any of that. It's an arbitrary number that could have been anything.

    Please stop using absolutes to try and cement your opinion. I specifically said an all-guild group can be zerging. I gave you the most used definition of zerging, and you responded with a "No" and regurgitated the same thing you said earlier in the thread. That's not how constructive debates happen, unless you just want to get your opinion validated without actually discussing things.

    No, that's incorrect. I'm the one being civil here, you're the one out of line. I never made any personal attacks, I just corrected your incorrect definition of "zerg." Zerging by definition is intentionally using excessive numbers so you don't have to strategize or coordinate. That means it doesn't depend on how much they outnumber the enemy by, it's only zerging if they intentionally brought extra people in order to not have to strategize or coordinate. Zerging doesn't mean outnumbering, it means intentionally bringing extra for the purpose of not having to strategize and coordinate. Therefore, if there is only one guild group and they didn't intentionally grab extra people just to get extra numbers, they're not a zerg, full stop. Zerging is essentially intentionally cheesing with numbers. If you're just running your one guild group, you're not doing that.

    It looks like we are just going to have to agree to disagree here. Seeing has how there isn't a tried and true definition of zerging, you can use whatever definition you want that makes you feel better. I'll just highlight some things I still don't really understand.

    it doesn't depend on how much they outnumber the enemy by, it's only zerging if they intentionally brought extra people in order to not have to strategize or coordinate
    -Define "strategize", because to me, intentionally bringing 24 people to a fight in order to not have to strategize or coordinate sounds like
    a "strategy" to me, and takes some "coordination" to pull off.
    Also it really does depend on how much the enemy is outnumbered by. 10v9 is nowhere the same as 20v9.
    if there is only one guild group and they didn't intentionally grab extra people just to get extra numbers, they're not a zerg, full stop
    -Describe to me a situation (baring fighting a 60 man faction stack) where a 20 man group intentionally grabs 4 extra
    people out of necessity for group composition, or strategic value. Anything you can do with 24 you can do with 20. And
    anything you can do with 20 you can do with 16 if build correctly and coordinated properly. (obviously fighting a faction
    stack is another issue entirely)
    Zerging is essentially intentionally cheesing with numbers. If you're just running your one guild group, you're not doing that
    -I feel like I'm just beating a dead horse here, but "cheesing with numbers" sounds an awful lot like running a 24 man
    guild group to take objectives that really only needs a 16 or 18 man guild group to take. If taking those objectives with
    a smaller guild group is either impossible or too difficult (while fighting smaller numbers) then adding more people to
    the guild group is done not out of "strategy" or "coordination", but out of desperation and lack of skill, which to me sounds
    an awful lot like attempting to "cheese with numbers"

    I didn't mean to personally attack you though. When you use terms like "full stop" and giving out definitions like you got them from Websters (when there is no established definition anywhere, just consensus and debated definitions), it seems like you don't really want to have a discussion, you just want to be right.
    Edited by PenguinInACan on September 7, 2019 9:59AM
    Marek
  • edges_endgame
    edges_endgame
    ✭✭✭
    Heimpai wrote: »
    Heimpai wrote: »
    Heatnix90 wrote: »
    Jazira wrote: »
    tl;dr
    So basically, win the campaign at the cost of the campaign's health. A+ strats

    No, really, if he wants to win that badly he can continue to do what he does, he just better be ready to experience nothing but hollow victories because his desire to win kills the campaign.

    I think I speak for most actual PvPers here when I say that campaign wins are meaningless and a joke, and that we would rather have some decent fights instead of either facerolling the map, or getting facerolled at a resource by 10x the numbers we bring.

    If you look at vivec DC is camping AD‘s tri‘s and gate camping EP..I obv logged..nice to know it’s a dc trait not just 1 guy

    I should mention that gate camping is why i quit sotha/bagoldick to begin with

    This is a Sotha thread... Not trying to be mean but I don't care about Vivec here. 😉

    Oh it appears i was in the wrong thread..oh wait we were talking about dc sucking the life out of pvp with their gate camping groups

    I also don’t care what you care about

    I think you are a nicer person ingame.
  • MajBludd
    MajBludd
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why not be thankful and gracious to other faction players? After all, without the other 2 factions, who would you fight?

    Gate camping is like saying, "I hate pvp and want to stifle it at any cost."
This discussion has been closed.