StamDK Dilemma: Penetration, DoT or Weapon Damage

Davadin

Here's the deal: stamDK, 2H/2H, med build, cp810.

Pick 2 out of 3, to complete with Bloodspawn...
1. Deadly Strike
2. Spriggan
3. Sword Singer

Obviously for PvP, CP Cyrodiil. CP810, so can put into Thau, or Pen, or Crit.

Been using sprig+deadly strike with good success, but just tried out Spriggan+SS and even though a little less stamina, and 15% less DoT, I'm driving ~200 more wep dmg, my Dizzying about 16k tooltip in Cyro, compared to 15k, and I do have Reverse Strike and Carve as well.

I'll post in-game screenshot later, but build is in my signature, although cp maybe out of date.

Thoughts?

ps: I have Valkyn and Troll King set as well....

Thogard

All three are terrible. Deadly is maybe decent-ish.

You don’t need pen since corrosive will help you ignore armor.

Most of your dmg will be from dots that sword singer won’t buff.

susmitds

Hundings+Fortified Brass would be better than any of those for the kind of build you are going for tbh.

Also instead of 2H/2H, I would advise back barring any of these four - Master DW or Bow, Blackrose DW or Bow.

If you really want 2H/2H, then backbar Asylum 2H.

Davadin

Thogard wrote: »

All three are terrible. Deadly is maybe decent-ish.

You don’t need pen since corrosive will help you ignore armor.

Most of your dmg will be from dots that sword singer won’t buff.

hmm kinda disagree. i run combat log in Cyro and my damage is mostly from leap and Dizzying.

and no i don't slot Corrosive. it's too long to build up. hell i don't even slot wings.

i got master axe on the back bar though, so carve DoT is a close third.

Davadin

susmitds wrote: »

Hundings+Fortified Brass would be better than any of those for the kind of build you are going for tbh.

Also instead of 2H/2H, I would advise back barring any of these four - Master DW or Bow, Blackrose DW or Bow.

If you really want 2H/2H, then backbar Asylum 2H.

i feel in love with 2h/2h, i spent enough time with SnB, heavy, bow, all those build and gotten bored. so I'm sticking with that. BUT, yes, i wish i can get asylum 2H..... but master when carve is ok.

susmitds

Davadin wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Hundings+Fortified Brass would be better than any of those for the kind of build you are going for tbh.

Also instead of 2H/2H, I would advise back barring any of these four - Master DW or Bow, Blackrose DW or Bow.

If you really want 2H/2H, then backbar Asylum 2H.

i feel in love with 2h/2h, i spent enough time with SnB, heavy, bow, all those build and gotten bored. so I'm sticking with that. BUT, yes, i wish i can get asylum 2H..... but master when carve is ok.

Here's the thing, with the low resists and stam regen in a setup like that, you will be burst down in seconds.

Davadin

susmitds wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Hundings+Fortified Brass would be better than any of those for the kind of build you are going for tbh.

Also instead of 2H/2H, I would advise back barring any of these four - Master DW or Bow, Blackrose DW or Bow.

If you really want 2H/2H, then backbar Asylum 2H.

i feel in love with 2h/2h, i spent enough time with SnB, heavy, bow, all those build and gotten bored. so I'm sticking with that. BUT, yes, i wish i can get asylum 2H..... but master when carve is ok.

Here's the thing, with the low resists and stam regen in a setup like that, you will be burst down in seconds.

I'm not arguing with you, but so far it's "ok". I'm rocking 21k/19k resist without any buff (Nord here), and i don't leave home without volatile armor! camoran took care of my regen at 1400, 1700 if i use Serpent. and my playstyle is dodge dodge dodge!

(which causes off balance and i got 10% extra damage)

so yes, i can be burst down in seconds, but more often than not, i burst them down first. (u know new Cauterize? it's pretty sick)

Back on topic, hmmmmm Asylum 2h looks nice with reverse strike. i can leap more and get resource back. but i like my Master axe too. if i use both Master+Asylum, I'll never get second set 5-piece bonus! (and i like my Spriggan 2H maul....)

good discussion, thank you.

Thogard

Davadin wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

All three are terrible. Deadly is maybe decent-ish.

You don’t need pen since corrosive will help you ignore armor.

Most of your dmg will be from dots that sword singer won’t buff.

hmm kinda disagree. i run combat log in Cyro and my damage is mostly from leap and Dizzying.

and no i don't slot Corrosive. it's too long to build up. hell i don't even slot wings.

i got master axe on the back bar though, so carve DoT is a close third.

i mean you could disagree if you want to but you'd be wrong.

if you want me to show you why in game just message me. @thogard on pc na.

Davadin

Thogard wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

All three are terrible. Deadly is maybe decent-ish.

You don’t need pen since corrosive will help you ignore armor.

Most of your dmg will be from dots that sword singer won’t buff.

hmm kinda disagree. i run combat log in Cyro and my damage is mostly from leap and Dizzying.

and no i don't slot Corrosive. it's too long to build up. hell i don't even slot wings.

i got master axe on the back bar though, so carve DoT is a close third.

i mean you could disagree if you want to but you'd be wrong.

if you want me to show you why in game just message me. @thogard on pc na.

Nice! My in-game is @pecelayam. My toon is Davadin.

Did a couple more test last night, I'm really digging Sword Singer with Spriggan. My Carve still bleeds 10k with only 25pt to Thaum, and direct damage is now higher than Noxious.

Clearly not a 1vX build as I'm having a tough time 1v2 on a resource, but so far unless it's a Stamblade, I can 1v1. Damn Stamblade and their burst.... Riding with a group though it feels great to spam Dizzying Swing.

To optimize Deadly Strike I would've put 52pt to Thaum and slot back Claw instead of Reverse Strike, but I guess that might work too. Then Carve's DoT would get closer to 15k....

I feel like 2H/2H works great with Sword Singer, or I can go 2H/Bow with Deadly Strike.

Yuke

Id say penetration is the most important thing to have rightnow in pvp as 31k resis is the new 24k resis.

Davadin

Yuke wrote: »

Id say penetration is the most important thing to have rightnow in pvp as 31k resis is the new 24k resis.

u think as a med armor user it's worth shuffling some direct-damage mitigation CP to medium-armor bonus to increase raw resist?

additionally, if i go Deadly Strike + Sword Singer, I could slot back Corrosive and Onslaught/Berserker?

What's a good penetration for CP Cyro anyway? I'm at around 16% i think....

ecru

Thogard wrote: »

All three are terrible. Deadly is maybe decent-ish.

You don’t need pen since corrosive will help you ignore armor.

Most of your dmg will be from dots that sword singer won’t buff.

Deadly strike is probably the most stat dense and consistent set in the game in terms of everything it provides if a lot of your damage comes from dots. Let's compare it to hundings:

Deadly strike:
Vigor: 15961
Rending Slashes: 3075/19036
Carve: 7959/17095
Claw: 5265/18101
Breath: 8157/13806

Hundings:
Vigor: 16251
Rending Slahes: 3130/17537
Carve: 8108/15688
Claw: 5363/16705
Breath: 8309/12753

2% less direct damage/healing for +10% damage on all dots. This is with no procs, no stacks, nothing. It's always there. To get that same amount of damage you'd need an extra ~900 weapon damage on top of what Hundings provides. If you're worried about direct damage, Flurry is flagged as a dot, which is also buffed as Deadly Strike, and Flurry was also just buffed by 21%, giving it a tooltip ~35% higher than Heroic Slash. Flurry also has the potential for an extra 15% damage vs immobilized targets from the dw passive (Fossilize--two immobilizations), and another 20% damage when your opponent is sub 25, at which point the tooltip will be ~60% higher than Heroic Slash.

Coincidentally, Deadly Strike also gives you equal dot damage to seventh + full fury stacks.

Thogard

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

All three are terrible. Deadly is maybe decent-ish.

You don’t need pen since corrosive will help you ignore armor.

Most of your dmg will be from dots that sword singer won’t buff.

Deadly strike is probably the most stat dense and consistent set in the game in terms of everything it provides if a lot of your damage comes from dots. Let's compare it to hundings:

Deadly strike:
Vigor: 15961
Rending Slashes: 3075/19036
Carve: 7959/17095
Claw: 5265/18101
Breath: 8157/13806

Hundings:
Vigor: 16251
Rending Slahes: 3130/17537
Carve: 8108/15688
Claw: 5363/16705
Breath: 8309/12753

2% less direct damage/healing for +10% damage on all dots. This is with no procs, no stacks, nothing. It's always there. To get that same amount of damage you'd need an extra ~900 weapon damage on top of what Hundings provides. If you're worried about direct damage, Flurry is flagged as a dot, which is also buffed as Deadly Strike, and Flurry was also just buffed by 21%, giving it a tooltip ~35% higher than Heroic Slash. Flurry also has the potential for an extra 15% damage vs immobilized targets from the dw passive (Fossilize--two immobilizations), and another 20% damage when your opponent is sub 25, at which point the tooltip will be ~60% higher than Heroic Slash.

Coincidentally, Deadly Strike also gives you equal dot damage to seventh + full fury stacks.

Are those numbers with major and minor brutality?

Regardless, DoTs are for pressure, not for finishing. Stacking dot dmg is great but to only boost it up slightly at the expensive of using a five piece that would buff DD and healing.. well it’s just a bad idea. The one exception could be for stamplar b/c jabs, but for Stam DK? No.

If I see a build using deadly that’s actually effective then maybe I’ll change my mind, but so far everything I’ve seen has been a waste. It’s a set that looks good in ESO build editor, but isn’t actually great in actual ESO PvP. For example, it’s completely countered by a purify lol

ecru

Thogard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

All three are terrible. Deadly is maybe decent-ish.

You don’t need pen since corrosive will help you ignore armor.

Most of your dmg will be from dots that sword singer won’t buff.

Deadly strike is probably the most stat dense and consistent set in the game in terms of everything it provides if a lot of your damage comes from dots. Let's compare it to hundings:

Deadly strike:
Vigor: 15961
Rending Slashes: 3075/19036
Carve: 7959/17095
Claw: 5265/18101
Breath: 8157/13806

Hundings:
Vigor: 16251
Rending Slahes: 3130/17537
Carve: 8108/15688
Claw: 5363/16705
Breath: 8309/12753

2% less direct damage/healing for +10% damage on all dots. This is with no procs, no stacks, nothing. It's always there. To get that same amount of damage you'd need an extra ~900 weapon damage on top of what Hundings provides. If you're worried about direct damage, Flurry is flagged as a dot, which is also buffed as Deadly Strike, and Flurry was also just buffed by 21%, giving it a tooltip ~35% higher than Heroic Slash. Flurry also has the potential for an extra 15% damage vs immobilized targets from the dw passive (Fossilize--two immobilizations), and another 20% damage when your opponent is sub 25, at which point the tooltip will be ~60% higher than Heroic Slash.

Coincidentally, Deadly Strike also gives you equal dot damage to seventh + full fury stacks.

Are those numbers with major and minor brutality?

Regardless, DoTs are for pressure, not for finishing. Stacking dot dmg is great but to only boost it up slightly at the expensive of using a five piece that would buff DD and healing.. well it’s just a bad idea. The one exception could be for stamplar b/c jabs, but for Stam DK? No.

If I see a build using deadly that’s actually effective then maybe I’ll change my mind, but so far everything I’ve seen has been a waste. It’s a set that looks good in ESO build editor, but isn’t actually great in actual ESO PvP. For example, it’s completely countered by a purify lol

The buffs are the same across both builds.

You don't need the dots. Flurry is just as effective with Corrosive as Heroic is. With Deadly Strike, Flurry (with no bonus from passives) has a tooltip only 12% lower than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice. Sub 25% (Slaughter passive) Flurry does 2% more damage than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice. Sub 25% with the immobilization buff (Ruffian passive) Flurry does 10% more damage than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice.

Thogard

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

All three are terrible. Deadly is maybe decent-ish.

You don’t need pen since corrosive will help you ignore armor.

Most of your dmg will be from dots that sword singer won’t buff.

Deadly strike is probably the most stat dense and consistent set in the game in terms of everything it provides if a lot of your damage comes from dots. Let's compare it to hundings:

Deadly strike:
Vigor: 15961
Rending Slashes: 3075/19036
Carve: 7959/17095
Claw: 5265/18101
Breath: 8157/13806

Hundings:
Vigor: 16251
Rending Slahes: 3130/17537
Carve: 8108/15688
Claw: 5363/16705
Breath: 8309/12753

2% less direct damage/healing for +10% damage on all dots. This is with no procs, no stacks, nothing. It's always there. To get that same amount of damage you'd need an extra ~900 weapon damage on top of what Hundings provides. If you're worried about direct damage, Flurry is flagged as a dot, which is also buffed as Deadly Strike, and Flurry was also just buffed by 21%, giving it a tooltip ~35% higher than Heroic Slash. Flurry also has the potential for an extra 15% damage vs immobilized targets from the dw passive (Fossilize--two immobilizations), and another 20% damage when your opponent is sub 25, at which point the tooltip will be ~60% higher than Heroic Slash.

Coincidentally, Deadly Strike also gives you equal dot damage to seventh + full fury stacks.

Are those numbers with major and minor brutality?

Regardless, DoTs are for pressure, not for finishing. Stacking dot dmg is great but to only boost it up slightly at the expensive of using a five piece that would buff DD and healing.. well it’s just a bad idea. The one exception could be for stamplar b/c jabs, but for Stam DK? No.

If I see a build using deadly that’s actually effective then maybe I’ll change my mind, but so far everything I’ve seen has been a waste. It’s a set that looks good in ESO build editor, but isn’t actually great in actual ESO PvP. For example, it’s completely countered by a purify lol

The buffs are the same across both builds.

You don't need the dots. Flurry is just as effective with Corrosive as Heroic is. With Deadly Strike, Flurry (with no bonus from passives) has a tooltip only 12% lower than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice. Sub 25% (Slaughter passive) Flurry does 2% more damage than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice. Sub 25% with the immobilization buff (Ruffian passive) Flurry does 10% more damage than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice.

Now I remember why I have your posts auto ignored.

Edit: that came across wrong. It’s so that I’m not baited into being toxic. In this case, Abstinence is the best form of prevention of me getting a forum ban.

ecru

Thogard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

All three are terrible. Deadly is maybe decent-ish.

You don’t need pen since corrosive will help you ignore armor.

Most of your dmg will be from dots that sword singer won’t buff.

Deadly strike is probably the most stat dense and consistent set in the game in terms of everything it provides if a lot of your damage comes from dots. Let's compare it to hundings:

Deadly strike:
Vigor: 15961
Rending Slashes: 3075/19036
Carve: 7959/17095
Claw: 5265/18101
Breath: 8157/13806

Hundings:
Vigor: 16251
Rending Slahes: 3130/17537
Carve: 8108/15688
Claw: 5363/16705
Breath: 8309/12753

2% less direct damage/healing for +10% damage on all dots. This is with no procs, no stacks, nothing. It's always there. To get that same amount of damage you'd need an extra ~900 weapon damage on top of what Hundings provides. If you're worried about direct damage, Flurry is flagged as a dot, which is also buffed as Deadly Strike, and Flurry was also just buffed by 21%, giving it a tooltip ~35% higher than Heroic Slash. Flurry also has the potential for an extra 15% damage vs immobilized targets from the dw passive (Fossilize--two immobilizations), and another 20% damage when your opponent is sub 25, at which point the tooltip will be ~60% higher than Heroic Slash.

Coincidentally, Deadly Strike also gives you equal dot damage to seventh + full fury stacks.

Are those numbers with major and minor brutality?

Regardless, DoTs are for pressure, not for finishing. Stacking dot dmg is great but to only boost it up slightly at the expensive of using a five piece that would buff DD and healing.. well it’s just a bad idea. The one exception could be for stamplar b/c jabs, but for Stam DK? No.

If I see a build using deadly that’s actually effective then maybe I’ll change my mind, but so far everything I’ve seen has been a waste. It’s a set that looks good in ESO build editor, but isn’t actually great in actual ESO PvP. For example, it’s completely countered by a purify lol

The buffs are the same across both builds.

You don't need the dots. Flurry is just as effective with Corrosive as Heroic is. With Deadly Strike, Flurry (with no bonus from passives) has a tooltip only 12% lower than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice. Sub 25% (Slaughter passive) Flurry does 2% more damage than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice. Sub 25% with the immobilization buff (Ruffian passive) Flurry does 10% more damage than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice.

Now I remember why I have your posts auto ignored.

This isn't a very good argument.

edit: This is what Flurry looks like with Corrosive up. Maybe 7k damage in one gcd isn't very good, IDK. Someone help me out here.

Davadin

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

All three are terrible. Deadly is maybe decent-ish.

You don’t need pen since corrosive will help you ignore armor.

Most of your dmg will be from dots that sword singer won’t buff.

Deadly strike is probably the most stat dense and consistent set in the game in terms of everything it provides if a lot of your damage comes from dots. Let's compare it to hundings:

Deadly strike:
Vigor: 15961
Rending Slashes: 3075/19036
Carve: 7959/17095
Claw: 5265/18101
Breath: 8157/13806

Hundings:
Vigor: 16251
Rending Slahes: 3130/17537
Carve: 8108/15688
Claw: 5363/16705
Breath: 8309/12753

2% less direct damage/healing for +10% damage on all dots. This is with no procs, no stacks, nothing. It's always there. To get that same amount of damage you'd need an extra ~900 weapon damage on top of what Hundings provides. If you're worried about direct damage, Flurry is flagged as a dot, which is also buffed as Deadly Strike, and Flurry was also just buffed by 21%, giving it a tooltip ~35% higher than Heroic Slash. Flurry also has the potential for an extra 15% damage vs immobilized targets from the dw passive (Fossilize--two immobilizations), and another 20% damage when your opponent is sub 25, at which point the tooltip will be ~60% higher than Heroic Slash.

Coincidentally, Deadly Strike also gives you equal dot damage to seventh + full fury stacks.

Are those numbers with major and minor brutality?

Regardless, DoTs are for pressure, not for finishing. Stacking dot dmg is great but to only boost it up slightly at the expensive of using a five piece that would buff DD and healing.. well it’s just a bad idea. The one exception could be for stamplar b/c jabs, but for Stam DK? No.

If I see a build using deadly that’s actually effective then maybe I’ll change my mind, but so far everything I’ve seen has been a waste. It’s a set that looks good in ESO build editor, but isn’t actually great in actual ESO PvP. For example, it’s completely countered by a purify lol

The buffs are the same across both builds.

You don't need the dots. Flurry is just as effective with Corrosive as Heroic is. With Deadly Strike, Flurry (with no bonus from passives) has a tooltip only 12% lower than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice. Sub 25% (Slaughter passive) Flurry does 2% more damage than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice. Sub 25% with the immobilization buff (Ruffian passive) Flurry does 10% more damage than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice.

Now I remember why I have your posts auto ignored.

This isn't a very good argument.

edit: This is what Flurry looks like with Corrosive up. Maybe 7k damage in one gcd isn't very good, IDK. Someone help me out here.

with Corrosive up, Carve is also about 7k, and Nox too.

I'm sorry I'm getting lost. So should I stick with Deadly and Spriggan?

I felt like I was losing an execute, no matter how much pressure I can put on. At the end, after 2 minutes fighting, I'm out of gas for putting continuous pressure, while my opponent can burst me down.

That's why currently I feel like Sword Singer gives me a better edge. Unbuffed I'm 8k on Carve direct damage, with Deadly Strike im about 7.2k.

ecru

Davadin wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

All three are terrible. Deadly is maybe decent-ish.

You don’t need pen since corrosive will help you ignore armor.

Most of your dmg will be from dots that sword singer won’t buff.

Deadly strike is probably the most stat dense and consistent set in the game in terms of everything it provides if a lot of your damage comes from dots. Let's compare it to hundings:

Deadly strike:
Vigor: 15961
Rending Slashes: 3075/19036
Carve: 7959/17095
Claw: 5265/18101
Breath: 8157/13806

Hundings:
Vigor: 16251
Rending Slahes: 3130/17537
Carve: 8108/15688
Claw: 5363/16705
Breath: 8309/12753

2% less direct damage/healing for +10% damage on all dots. This is with no procs, no stacks, nothing. It's always there. To get that same amount of damage you'd need an extra ~900 weapon damage on top of what Hundings provides. If you're worried about direct damage, Flurry is flagged as a dot, which is also buffed as Deadly Strike, and Flurry was also just buffed by 21%, giving it a tooltip ~35% higher than Heroic Slash. Flurry also has the potential for an extra 15% damage vs immobilized targets from the dw passive (Fossilize--two immobilizations), and another 20% damage when your opponent is sub 25, at which point the tooltip will be ~60% higher than Heroic Slash.

Coincidentally, Deadly Strike also gives you equal dot damage to seventh + full fury stacks.

Are those numbers with major and minor brutality?

Regardless, DoTs are for pressure, not for finishing. Stacking dot dmg is great but to only boost it up slightly at the expensive of using a five piece that would buff DD and healing.. well it’s just a bad idea. The one exception could be for stamplar b/c jabs, but for Stam DK? No.

If I see a build using deadly that’s actually effective then maybe I’ll change my mind, but so far everything I’ve seen has been a waste. It’s a set that looks good in ESO build editor, but isn’t actually great in actual ESO PvP. For example, it’s completely countered by a purify lol

The buffs are the same across both builds.

You don't need the dots. Flurry is just as effective with Corrosive as Heroic is. With Deadly Strike, Flurry (with no bonus from passives) has a tooltip only 12% lower than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice. Sub 25% (Slaughter passive) Flurry does 2% more damage than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice. Sub 25% with the immobilization buff (Ruffian passive) Flurry does 10% more damage than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice.

Now I remember why I have your posts auto ignored.

This isn't a very good argument.

edit: This is what Flurry looks like with Corrosive up. Maybe 7k damage in one gcd isn't very good, IDK. Someone help me out here.

with Corrosive up, Carve is also about 7k, and Nox too.

I'm sorry I'm getting lost. So should I stick with Deadly and Spriggan?

I felt like I was losing an execute, no matter how much pressure I can put on. At the end, after 2 minutes fighting, I'm out of gas for putting continuous pressure, while my opponent can burst me down.

That's why currently I feel like Sword Singer gives me a better edge. Unbuffed I'm 8k on Carve direct damage, with Deadly Strike im about 7.2k.

Flurry does about 60-70% more damage than the direct damage portion of Carve and Noxious Breath. Even more sub 25%. The tooltip is like ~14k on Flurry vs 8k on Carve/Breath.

What I'm suggesting is that there's really no good reason to double bar 2H.

Thogard

Davadin wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

All three are terrible. Deadly is maybe decent-ish.

You don’t need pen since corrosive will help you ignore armor.

Most of your dmg will be from dots that sword singer won’t buff.

Deadly strike is probably the most stat dense and consistent set in the game in terms of everything it provides if a lot of your damage comes from dots. Let's compare it to hundings:

Deadly strike:
Vigor: 15961
Rending Slashes: 3075/19036
Carve: 7959/17095
Claw: 5265/18101
Breath: 8157/13806

Hundings:
Vigor: 16251
Rending Slahes: 3130/17537
Carve: 8108/15688
Claw: 5363/16705
Breath: 8309/12753

2% less direct damage/healing for +10% damage on all dots. This is with no procs, no stacks, nothing. It's always there. To get that same amount of damage you'd need an extra ~900 weapon damage on top of what Hundings provides. If you're worried about direct damage, Flurry is flagged as a dot, which is also buffed as Deadly Strike, and Flurry was also just buffed by 21%, giving it a tooltip ~35% higher than Heroic Slash. Flurry also has the potential for an extra 15% damage vs immobilized targets from the dw passive (Fossilize--two immobilizations), and another 20% damage when your opponent is sub 25, at which point the tooltip will be ~60% higher than Heroic Slash.

Coincidentally, Deadly Strike also gives you equal dot damage to seventh + full fury stacks.

Are those numbers with major and minor brutality?

Regardless, DoTs are for pressure, not for finishing. Stacking dot dmg is great but to only boost it up slightly at the expensive of using a five piece that would buff DD and healing.. well it’s just a bad idea. The one exception could be for stamplar b/c jabs, but for Stam DK? No.

If I see a build using deadly that’s actually effective then maybe I’ll change my mind, but so far everything I’ve seen has been a waste. It’s a set that looks good in ESO build editor, but isn’t actually great in actual ESO PvP. For example, it’s completely countered by a purify lol

The buffs are the same across both builds.

You don't need the dots. Flurry is just as effective with Corrosive as Heroic is. With Deadly Strike, Flurry (with no bonus from passives) has a tooltip only 12% lower than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice. Sub 25% (Slaughter passive) Flurry does 2% more damage than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice. Sub 25% with the immobilization buff (Ruffian passive) Flurry does 10% more damage than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice.

Now I remember why I have your posts auto ignored.

This isn't a very good argument.

edit: This is what Flurry looks like with Corrosive up. Maybe 7k damage in one gcd isn't very good, IDK. Someone help me out here.

with Corrosive up, Carve is also about 7k, and Nox too.

I'm sorry I'm getting lost. So should I stick with Deadly and Spriggan?

I felt like I was losing an execute, no matter how much pressure I can put on. At the end, after 2 minutes fighting, I'm out of gas for putting continuous pressure, while my opponent can burst me down.

That's why currently I feel like Sword Singer gives me a better edge. Unbuffed I'm 8k on Carve direct damage, with Deadly Strike im about 7.2k.

are you online right now?

Davadin

ecru wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

All three are terrible. Deadly is maybe decent-ish.

You don’t need pen since corrosive will help you ignore armor.

Most of your dmg will be from dots that sword singer won’t buff.

Deadly strike is probably the most stat dense and consistent set in the game in terms of everything it provides if a lot of your damage comes from dots. Let's compare it to hundings:

Deadly strike:
Vigor: 15961
Rending Slashes: 3075/19036
Carve: 7959/17095
Claw: 5265/18101
Breath: 8157/13806

Hundings:
Vigor: 16251
Rending Slahes: 3130/17537
Carve: 8108/15688
Claw: 5363/16705
Breath: 8309/12753

2% less direct damage/healing for +10% damage on all dots. This is with no procs, no stacks, nothing. It's always there. To get that same amount of damage you'd need an extra ~900 weapon damage on top of what Hundings provides. If you're worried about direct damage, Flurry is flagged as a dot, which is also buffed as Deadly Strike, and Flurry was also just buffed by 21%, giving it a tooltip ~35% higher than Heroic Slash. Flurry also has the potential for an extra 15% damage vs immobilized targets from the dw passive (Fossilize--two immobilizations), and another 20% damage when your opponent is sub 25, at which point the tooltip will be ~60% higher than Heroic Slash.

Coincidentally, Deadly Strike also gives you equal dot damage to seventh + full fury stacks.

Are those numbers with major and minor brutality?

Regardless, DoTs are for pressure, not for finishing. Stacking dot dmg is great but to only boost it up slightly at the expensive of using a five piece that would buff DD and healing.. well it’s just a bad idea. The one exception could be for stamplar b/c jabs, but for Stam DK? No.

If I see a build using deadly that’s actually effective then maybe I’ll change my mind, but so far everything I’ve seen has been a waste. It’s a set that looks good in ESO build editor, but isn’t actually great in actual ESO PvP. For example, it’s completely countered by a purify lol

The buffs are the same across both builds.

You don't need the dots. Flurry is just as effective with Corrosive as Heroic is. With Deadly Strike, Flurry (with no bonus from passives) has a tooltip only 12% lower than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice. Sub 25% (Slaughter passive) Flurry does 2% more damage than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice. Sub 25% with the immobilization buff (Ruffian passive) Flurry does 10% more damage than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice.

Now I remember why I have your posts auto ignored.

This isn't a very good argument.

edit: This is what Flurry looks like with Corrosive up. Maybe 7k damage in one gcd isn't very good, IDK. Someone help me out here.

with Corrosive up, Carve is also about 7k, and Nox too.

I'm sorry I'm getting lost. So should I stick with Deadly and Spriggan?

I felt like I was losing an execute, no matter how much pressure I can put on. At the end, after 2 minutes fighting, I'm out of gas for putting continuous pressure, while my opponent can burst me down.

That's why currently I feel like Sword Singer gives me a better edge. Unbuffed I'm 8k on Carve direct damage, with Deadly Strike im about 7.2k.

Flurry does about 60-70% more damage than the direct damage portion of Carve and Noxious Breath. Even more sub 25%. The tooltip is like ~14k on Flurry vs 8k on Carve/Breath.

What I'm suggesting is that there's really no good reason to double bar 2H.

oh that part is just personal preference LOL... i tried Flurry with Elsweyr and it's better, yes, but in Kaal campaign, it doesn't feel like it's delivering enough juice. Honestly, the other guy who posted on another thread might be right with lag making Flurry missed a few hits in Cyrodiil.
But I'll slot DW back again with DW Spriggan Axe, and show you the tooltip tonight. It ain't 14k for sure lol.

Thogard wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

All three are terrible. Deadly is maybe decent-ish.

You don’t need pen since corrosive will help you ignore armor.

Most of your dmg will be from dots that sword singer won’t buff.

Deadly strike is probably the most stat dense and consistent set in the game in terms of everything it provides if a lot of your damage comes from dots. Let's compare it to hundings:

Deadly strike:
Vigor: 15961
Rending Slashes: 3075/19036
Carve: 7959/17095
Claw: 5265/18101
Breath: 8157/13806

Hundings:
Vigor: 16251
Rending Slahes: 3130/17537
Carve: 8108/15688
Claw: 5363/16705
Breath: 8309/12753

2% less direct damage/healing for +10% damage on all dots. This is with no procs, no stacks, nothing. It's always there. To get that same amount of damage you'd need an extra ~900 weapon damage on top of what Hundings provides. If you're worried about direct damage, Flurry is flagged as a dot, which is also buffed as Deadly Strike, and Flurry was also just buffed by 21%, giving it a tooltip ~35% higher than Heroic Slash. Flurry also has the potential for an extra 15% damage vs immobilized targets from the dw passive (Fossilize--two immobilizations), and another 20% damage when your opponent is sub 25, at which point the tooltip will be ~60% higher than Heroic Slash.

Coincidentally, Deadly Strike also gives you equal dot damage to seventh + full fury stacks.

Are those numbers with major and minor brutality?

Regardless, DoTs are for pressure, not for finishing. Stacking dot dmg is great but to only boost it up slightly at the expensive of using a five piece that would buff DD and healing.. well it’s just a bad idea. The one exception could be for stamplar b/c jabs, but for Stam DK? No.

If I see a build using deadly that’s actually effective then maybe I’ll change my mind, but so far everything I’ve seen has been a waste. It’s a set that looks good in ESO build editor, but isn’t actually great in actual ESO PvP. For example, it’s completely countered by a purify lol

The buffs are the same across both builds.

You don't need the dots. Flurry is just as effective with Corrosive as Heroic is. With Deadly Strike, Flurry (with no bonus from passives) has a tooltip only 12% lower than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice. Sub 25% (Slaughter passive) Flurry does 2% more damage than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice. Sub 25% with the immobilization buff (Ruffian passive) Flurry does 10% more damage than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice.

Now I remember why I have your posts auto ignored.

This isn't a very good argument.

edit: This is what Flurry looks like with Corrosive up. Maybe 7k damage in one gcd isn't very good, IDK. Someone help me out here.

with Corrosive up, Carve is also about 7k, and Nox too.

I'm sorry I'm getting lost. So should I stick with Deadly and Spriggan?

I felt like I was losing an execute, no matter how much pressure I can put on. At the end, after 2 minutes fighting, I'm out of gas for putting continuous pressure, while my opponent can burst me down.

That's why currently I feel like Sword Singer gives me a better edge. Unbuffed I'm 8k on Carve direct damage, with Deadly Strike im about 7.2k.

are you online right now?

dude i'm still at work lol... im usually online 11PM EST++.... (got a wife n kid, yo...)

ecru

Davadin wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

All three are terrible. Deadly is maybe decent-ish.

You don’t need pen since corrosive will help you ignore armor.

Most of your dmg will be from dots that sword singer won’t buff.

Deadly strike is probably the most stat dense and consistent set in the game in terms of everything it provides if a lot of your damage comes from dots. Let's compare it to hundings:

Deadly strike:
Vigor: 15961
Rending Slashes: 3075/19036
Carve: 7959/17095
Claw: 5265/18101
Breath: 8157/13806

Hundings:
Vigor: 16251
Rending Slahes: 3130/17537
Carve: 8108/15688
Claw: 5363/16705
Breath: 8309/12753

2% less direct damage/healing for +10% damage on all dots. This is with no procs, no stacks, nothing. It's always there. To get that same amount of damage you'd need an extra ~900 weapon damage on top of what Hundings provides. If you're worried about direct damage, Flurry is flagged as a dot, which is also buffed as Deadly Strike, and Flurry was also just buffed by 21%, giving it a tooltip ~35% higher than Heroic Slash. Flurry also has the potential for an extra 15% damage vs immobilized targets from the dw passive (Fossilize--two immobilizations), and another 20% damage when your opponent is sub 25, at which point the tooltip will be ~60% higher than Heroic Slash.

Coincidentally, Deadly Strike also gives you equal dot damage to seventh + full fury stacks.

Are those numbers with major and minor brutality?

Regardless, DoTs are for pressure, not for finishing. Stacking dot dmg is great but to only boost it up slightly at the expensive of using a five piece that would buff DD and healing.. well it’s just a bad idea. The one exception could be for stamplar b/c jabs, but for Stam DK? No.

If I see a build using deadly that’s actually effective then maybe I’ll change my mind, but so far everything I’ve seen has been a waste. It’s a set that looks good in ESO build editor, but isn’t actually great in actual ESO PvP. For example, it’s completely countered by a purify lol

The buffs are the same across both builds.

You don't need the dots. Flurry is just as effective with Corrosive as Heroic is. With Deadly Strike, Flurry (with no bonus from passives) has a tooltip only 12% lower than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice. Sub 25% (Slaughter passive) Flurry does 2% more damage than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice. Sub 25% with the immobilization buff (Ruffian passive) Flurry does 10% more damage than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice.

Now I remember why I have your posts auto ignored.

This isn't a very good argument.

edit: This is what Flurry looks like with Corrosive up. Maybe 7k damage in one gcd isn't very good, IDK. Someone help me out here.

with Corrosive up, Carve is also about 7k, and Nox too.

I'm sorry I'm getting lost. So should I stick with Deadly and Spriggan?

I felt like I was losing an execute, no matter how much pressure I can put on. At the end, after 2 minutes fighting, I'm out of gas for putting continuous pressure, while my opponent can burst me down.

That's why currently I feel like Sword Singer gives me a better edge. Unbuffed I'm 8k on Carve direct damage, with Deadly Strike im about 7.2k.

Flurry does about 60-70% more damage than the direct damage portion of Carve and Noxious Breath. Even more sub 25%. The tooltip is like ~14k on Flurry vs 8k on Carve/Breath.

What I'm suggesting is that there's really no good reason to double bar 2H.

oh that part is just personal preference LOL... i tried Flurry with Elsweyr and it's better, yes, but in Kaal campaign, it doesn't feel like it's delivering enough juice. Honestly, the other guy who posted on another thread might be right with lag making Flurry missed a few hits in Cyrodiil.
But I'll slot DW back again with DW Spriggan Axe, and show you the tooltip tonight. It ain't 14k for sure lol.

Thogard wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

All three are terrible. Deadly is maybe decent-ish.

You don’t need pen since corrosive will help you ignore armor.

Most of your dmg will be from dots that sword singer won’t buff.

Deadly strike is probably the most stat dense and consistent set in the game in terms of everything it provides if a lot of your damage comes from dots. Let's compare it to hundings:

Deadly strike:
Vigor: 15961
Rending Slashes: 3075/19036
Carve: 7959/17095
Claw: 5265/18101
Breath: 8157/13806

Hundings:
Vigor: 16251
Rending Slahes: 3130/17537
Carve: 8108/15688
Claw: 5363/16705
Breath: 8309/12753

2% less direct damage/healing for +10% damage on all dots. This is with no procs, no stacks, nothing. It's always there. To get that same amount of damage you'd need an extra ~900 weapon damage on top of what Hundings provides. If you're worried about direct damage, Flurry is flagged as a dot, which is also buffed as Deadly Strike, and Flurry was also just buffed by 21%, giving it a tooltip ~35% higher than Heroic Slash. Flurry also has the potential for an extra 15% damage vs immobilized targets from the dw passive (Fossilize--two immobilizations), and another 20% damage when your opponent is sub 25, at which point the tooltip will be ~60% higher than Heroic Slash.

Coincidentally, Deadly Strike also gives you equal dot damage to seventh + full fury stacks.

Are those numbers with major and minor brutality?

Regardless, DoTs are for pressure, not for finishing. Stacking dot dmg is great but to only boost it up slightly at the expensive of using a five piece that would buff DD and healing.. well it’s just a bad idea. The one exception could be for stamplar b/c jabs, but for Stam DK? No.

If I see a build using deadly that’s actually effective then maybe I’ll change my mind, but so far everything I’ve seen has been a waste. It’s a set that looks good in ESO build editor, but isn’t actually great in actual ESO PvP. For example, it’s completely countered by a purify lol

The buffs are the same across both builds.

You don't need the dots. Flurry is just as effective with Corrosive as Heroic is. With Deadly Strike, Flurry (with no bonus from passives) has a tooltip only 12% lower than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice. Sub 25% (Slaughter passive) Flurry does 2% more damage than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice. Sub 25% with the immobilization buff (Ruffian passive) Flurry does 10% more damage than the maximum bonus on Reverse Slice.

Now I remember why I have your posts auto ignored.

This isn't a very good argument.

edit: This is what Flurry looks like with Corrosive up. Maybe 7k damage in one gcd isn't very good, IDK. Someone help me out here.

with Corrosive up, Carve is also about 7k, and Nox too.

I'm sorry I'm getting lost. So should I stick with Deadly and Spriggan?

I felt like I was losing an execute, no matter how much pressure I can put on. At the end, after 2 minutes fighting, I'm out of gas for putting continuous pressure, while my opponent can burst me down.

That's why currently I feel like Sword Singer gives me a better edge. Unbuffed I'm 8k on Carve direct damage, with Deadly Strike im about 7.2k.

are you online right now?

dude i'm still at work lol... im usually online 11PM EST++.... (got a wife n kid, yo...)

The first 4 hits of Flurry should total about ~7.5-8k (1900-2k each), the last hit should come out to ~5.5-6k, depending on your weapon damage, if you're using Deadly Strike. Rapid Strikes is going to be more but I believe that the final 300% damage hit of Rapid Strikes is based off of the first hit, not the fourth hit after three 3% increases, so IMO it's not really worth using that morph over Bloodthirst.

Both you and Thogard need more math in your life. The numbers don't lie.

That was me who posted about the effectiveness of Flurry with lag BTW, but I avoid playing when lag is that bad so it isn't a huge deal.

Thogard

flurry won't work against a good player.

if you're looking to Xv1 or just zerg surf, then sure. but flurry won't even work in mid-range MMR BGs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqjRDcBXoTE

meta is meta for a reason.

ecru

edit: actually everyone should listen to thogard. absolutely do not use flurry, especially with deadly strike. lol.

Davadin

tonight I'll check it out, if flurry can really hit that hard. if yes, maybe I'll go 2h/dw.

but I'm not going heavy/SnB again. I'm tired of it.

otherwise I'm sticking to 2h/2h, but i still haven't gotten an answer from you two lol, deadly strike vs sword singer. i feel like it's more deadly strike, so that means i just blew 200k gold for nothing lol

Davadin

Thogard wrote: »

flurry won't work against a good player.

if you're looking to Xv1 or just zerg surf, then sure. but flurry won't even work in mid-range MMR BGs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqjRDcBXoTE

meta is meta for a reason.

hot freakin damnit that some good play.

I'd like to know your cp distribution.

Waffennacht

All I know is every time I try flurry I just hate it

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

All I know is every time I try flurry I just hate it

Have you tried using flurry in ESO build editor rather than actually playing the game? I’ve heard good things.

Thogard

Davadin wrote: »

tonight I'll check it out, if flurry can really hit that hard. if yes, maybe I'll go 2h/dw.

but I'm not going heavy/SnB again. I'm tired of it.

otherwise I'm sticking to 2h/2h, but i still haven't gotten an answer from you two lol, deadly strike vs sword singer. i feel like it's more deadly strike, so that means i just blew 200k gold for nothing lol

What kind of PvP do you do?

Davadin

Thogard wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

tonight I'll check it out, if flurry can really hit that hard. if yes, maybe I'll go 2h/dw.

but I'm not going heavy/SnB again. I'm tired of it.

otherwise I'm sticking to 2h/2h, but i still haven't gotten an answer from you two lol, deadly strike vs sword singer. i feel like it's more deadly strike, so that means i just blew 200k gold for nothing lol

What kind of PvP do you do?

50/50 solo or zerg surfing. cp pvp.

SkysOutThizeOut

@Davadin let me help you in a more sound way. The sets don’t work together because they’re not complimenting each other for a huge part. Sword singer doesn’t buff ANYTHIG NON 2H. Are you only using 2h ultimate? If your going for a dot build this is not a good look. Spriggans is even worse if your using bleeds, because bleeds penetrate all resistances anyway. If you are 1baring spriggan okay, maybe. Spriggans is also going to be worthless with your 2h ultimate because it’s 100% pen already. If you are set on dots and want bigger weapon damage and claim solo, seventh/veiled (your choice) and deadly would probably be a good setup. Losing too much stat density in spriggan and sword singer. Veiled is always up and seventh basically is when your in the ***. Hope this helps.

ecru

Waffennacht wrote: »

All I know is every time I try flurry I just hate it

It's much easier to use now after the patch and since you're on console, the damage was increased by 21% a few days ago when Elsweyr was released.

As for it being easier to use, this is from the Elsweyr patch notes:

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

You can very easily weave it as fast as an instant ability now.