Magicka Necro in BGs

Noctus

Waffennacht wrote: »

Seems niche, but what about harmony with avid? Looking at what... an easy (or modest) 30k tooltip? (The burst damage synergy)

using blastbones alongside avid boneyard synergy makes up a great burst. u could even set up the necro trap with it and silverleash ppl into it and burst them down. the synergy is also outside of the lightattack and skill gcd similar to shieldbash i think but needs further testing.

u can just first use the skeleton mage-use avid boneyard- blastbones - then go for destructive touch and then the synergy this will also work on stamina necro. (thats what im doing in bg to burst down ppl currently. avid boneyard is good but would need more range)

eventually u can set a more complicated trap with "empowering grasp" but then u might wanna use silverleash before going for destructive touch. (but thats theorycrafted needs testing)

i know that *** is a little hard to set up but the burst power is there.

Waffennacht

Noctus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Seems niche, but what about harmony with avid? Looking at what... an easy (or modest) 30k tooltip? (The burst damage synergy)

using blastbones alongside avid boneyard synergy makes up a great burst. u could even set up the necro trap with it and silverleash ppl into it and burst them down. the synergy is also outside of the lightattack and skill gcd similar to shieldbash i think but needs further testing.

u can just first use the skeleton mage-use avid boneyard- blastbones - then go for destructive touch and then the synergy this will also work on stamina necro. (thats what im doing in bg to burst down ppl currently. avid boneyard is good but would need more range)

eventually u can set a more complicated trap with "empowering grasp" but then u might wanna use silverleash before going for destructive touch. (but thats theorycrafted needs testing)

i know that *** is a little hard to set up but the burst power is there.

I'm preferring to move to my opponent rather than them to me. Bones, into Avid into invasion, grasp, synergy, (right about when bones hits) into scythe.

This way everything is right on top of the opponent rather than trying to manage at a distance.

Thanks for the insight 😊

Noctus

Waffennacht wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Seems niche, but what about harmony with avid? Looking at what... an easy (or modest) 30k tooltip? (The burst damage synergy)

using blastbones alongside avid boneyard synergy makes up a great burst. u could even set up the necro trap with it and silverleash ppl into it and burst them down. the synergy is also outside of the lightattack and skill gcd similar to shieldbash i think but needs further testing.

u can just first use the skeleton mage-use avid boneyard- blastbones - then go for destructive touch and then the synergy this will also work on stamina necro. (thats what im doing in bg to burst down ppl currently. avid boneyard is good but would need more range)

eventually u can set a more complicated trap with "empowering grasp" but then u might wanna use silverleash before going for destructive touch. (but thats theorycrafted needs testing)

i know that *** is a little hard to set up but the burst power is there.

I'm preferring to move to my opponent rather than them to me. Bones, into Avid into invasion, grasp, synergy, (right about when bones hits) into scythe.

This way everything is right on top of the opponent rather than trying to manage at a distance.

Thanks for the insight 😊

i would rather not set up grasp instead just deal as much dmg as possible right after the stun.
but if it works it works we just have different ways of handling it. so yeh synergy blastbones is the way to go for magcro and stamcro its a great burst. we agree.

its just i feel like avid has a too little radius

Waffennacht

@Noctuas have you tried harmony traits?

Neloth

Guys, guys, it’s VERY interesting.

I will even craft something like seducer with harmony to try it rn

And silver lash is very possible to use. Bad thing - you won’t be able to stun after pulling some1 to you, but need further testing

Neloth

What about synergy cooldown?

Waffennacht

Neloth wrote: »

What about synergy cooldown?

I was checking that out, it's somewhere near 15 seconds it seems; even so can still be worth it to slot harmony.

How many exactly not entirely sure.

Was playing in some BGs earlier, works rather well. The damage occurs before the synergy animation happens. Really fast.

I actually spent most of the night getting the telvanni personality (took longer than expected) and not much testing lol

Neloth

Waffennacht wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

What about synergy cooldown?

I was checking that out, it's somewhere near 15 seconds it seems; even so can still be worth it to slot harmony.

How many exactly not entirely sure.

Was playing in some BGs earlier, works rather well. The damage occurs before the synergy animation happens. Really fast.

I actually spent most of the night getting the telvanni personality (took longer than expected) and not much testing lol

Yep, it seems to be somewhere in between 15-20 seconds

A bit to long, but still interesting

I also tried using 3 harmony traits, and it crittied for 10-11k on my heavy armor stamsorc buddy (magnus, necro, pirate skeleton)

Waffennacht

Neloth wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

What about synergy cooldown?

I was checking that out, it's somewhere near 15 seconds it seems; even so can still be worth it to slot harmony.

How many exactly not entirely sure.

Was playing in some BGs earlier, works rather well. The damage occurs before the synergy animation happens. Really fast.

I actually spent most of the night getting the telvanni personality (took longer than expected) and not much testing lol

Yep, it seems to be somewhere in between 15-20 seconds

A bit to long, but still interesting

I also tried using 3 harmony traits, and it crittied for 10-11k on my heavy armor stamsorc buddy (magnus, necro, pirate skeleton)

Curious as to what your stats are?

Personally, especially in no CP, I find more value out of spell damage over max mag.

My avid isn't max yet unfortunately - so I can't use my tooltip for comparison

wheem_ESO

Waffennacht wrote: »

I've had builds that reached millions of damage but their kill assist numbers were not any different than other builds. And I've had some builds with massively low damage but great kill death assist numbers.

To me it's about kill death assist ratio; of course dealing millions of damage means your significantly contributing but it doesn't give me the full picture

The reasons I ask is because your numbers are dead on; it means your experiences are similar to mine, I want (or need to know) what the necessary pieces for the puzzle to fit together so to speak

It's absolutely true that total damage numbers can be deceiving, as I've mentioned before. This fact is easily demonstrated by the old Warden "health builds," which had a ton of low'ish damage AOE ticks going all game, which tended to result in very high damage numbers but not all that much actual killing power. That said, I've never seen a "good" offense-oriented build in BGs that couldn't hit 500k+ with regularity, even with very little AOE.

Using one of the aforementioned kill/death/assist ratio screenshots as an example: I had a game that was 4v4v3 (my team had 3), where I went 15-0-21, but only had 372.8k damage done, along with 127.8k healing. The Stamina Necromancer on my team seemed like a solid player, and ended up at 31-2-21, with ~1.2m damage done. In fairness, that person did more deathmatching than I did (including frequent 1vX), so I would fully expect their damage to be somewhat higher - but that's a huge gap, and it wasn't due to AOE cheesing.

Waffennacht wrote: »

Seems niche, but what about harmony with avid? Looking at what... an easy (or modest) 30k tooltip? (The burst damage synergy)

This is what I was referring to when I mentioned "wasting jewelry traits" back on page-1. Very shortly after Elsweyr went live, I had a friend ask me to just heal myself in a duel while he tested something on his Magicka Necromancer. I'm not 100% sure what all he was wearing, but he had either 2 or 3 Harmony-traited Jewelry, and dropped a burst on me with the Avid Boneyard synergy. It certainly hurt - I'm not gonna lie - but I was just standing still letting him do his thing while I healed, and wasn't wearing any defensive sets at all (Rattlecage, Bright-Throat's Boast, and Valkyn Skoria since I was just doing PvE, though I was in full Impen and 3x Protective). In fact, I'm honestly not even sure that I was using Bone Armor for the major resist buffs at the time; my bars were mostly just full of whatever it was I was trying to level up in solo PvE then, along with a heal or two.

When you take into account the 20 second cooldown, how finnicky the positioning to trigger the synergy can be, and what's realistically going to be happening when decent-or-better players are actually fighting back against you, I really don't think running a bunch of Harmony Jewelry and relying on Avid's synergy is worthwhile.

Waffennacht wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

What about synergy cooldown?

I was checking that out, it's somewhere near 15 seconds it seems; even so can still be worth it to slot harmony.

How many exactly not entirely sure.

Was playing in some BGs earlier, works rather well. The damage occurs before the synergy animation happens. Really fast.

I actually spent most of the night getting the telvanni personality (took longer than expected) and not much testing lol

Yep, it seems to be somewhere in between 15-20 seconds

A bit to long, but still interesting

I also tried using 3 harmony traits, and it crittied for 10-11k on my heavy armor stamsorc buddy (magnus, necro, pirate skeleton)

Curious as to what your stats are?

Personally, especially in no CP, I find more value out of spell damage over max mag.

My avid isn't max yet unfortunately - so I can't use my tooltip for comparison

Using a Nirnhoned Lightning Staff and 0 Harmony traits on Jewelry, my Avid Boneyard synergy's tooltip is ~94% of a Blastbones.

Neloth

Waffennacht wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

What about synergy cooldown?

I was checking that out, it's somewhere near 15 seconds it seems; even so can still be worth it to slot harmony.

How many exactly not entirely sure.

Was playing in some BGs earlier, works rather well. The damage occurs before the synergy animation happens. Really fast.

I actually spent most of the night getting the telvanni personality (took longer than expected) and not much testing lol

Yep, it seems to be somewhere in between 15-20 seconds

A bit to long, but still interesting

I also tried using 3 harmony traits, and it crittied for 10-11k on my heavy armor stamsorc buddy (magnus, necro, pirate skeleton)

Curious as to what your stats are?

Personally, especially in no CP, I find more value out of spell damage over max mag.

My avid isn't max yet unfortunately - so I can't use my tooltip for comparison

39k mag
25k health
13k stam
2,7k spell dmg
1.9k mag recovery

23k/21k resists

That’s CP PvP, fully buffed, no undaunted yet

Waffennacht

So I felt like my set up was trying to do too much. Finally maxed out skills and fiddled with some things.

First off Arcanist is only useful as a corpse mechanic or a trigger; I'm surprised a 2 sec attack is so low (meh though, corpse fuel is useful...)

Fiddled with a more traditional mag spec; I'll reserve my thoughts but suffice it to say that I've decided to go full health tank.

Now @RouDeR has had success in the past with thews of the harbinger. So I'm looking at that with Goliath morph.

An interesting idea I had was reactive armor, with blood sacrifice/flesh your minor defile should keep reactive up 100% of the time; or on demand. (Unless I miss understood reactive)

There's several defensive sets; but not too many offensive ones...

Another idea I had was Icy Conjurer + Grasp get that minor main to trigger the wraith.

With all that being said I'm gonna drop BB; need to unlock RAT for mobility (bah psijic skill line leveling)

Seeing as Avid will probably dive in damage I may as well lose that too

wheem_ESO

Waffennacht wrote: »

First off Arcanist is only useful as a corpse mechanic or a trigger; I'm surprised a 2 sec attack is so low (meh though, corpse fuel is useful...)

The damage was bad on PTS, and they actually nerfed it between the last PTS patch and early access release. I can't fathom why, since it already wasn't really worth using. When you factor in the inability to choose its target (it'll even nuke pets over players, if the pet is closer), and how it'll stop doing damage if it loses LOS, it's pretty obvious how terrible the Skeletal Mage is.

Honestly, the corpse mechanic is so clunky and unreliable that I don't think the Mage is worth running even for that. The only corpse-consuming ability with any real value in PvP - in my opinion, at least - is Renewing Undeath. Having an extra corpse on top of yourself (and therefore often not able to benefit teammates) every 8-16 seconds isn't worth it, if you ask me. The class' regeneration passive can be triggered by the Mender, which is unfortunately still bugged and doesn't always heal even if you don't LOS it, and you can get the +Penetration from Blastbones (I would assume that it'll provide that for itself, unless the game considers it despawned before calculating the damage?) or Boneyard. While I consider Boneyard to be a bad skill for PvP, it can at least be used as an anti-stealth tool, or a self heal from the synergy if you're able to land it.

Waffennacht wrote: »

An interesting idea I had was reactive armor, with blood sacrifice/flesh your minor defile should keep reactive up 100% of the time; or on demand. (Unless I miss understood reactive)

There's several defensive sets; but not too many offensive ones...

Another idea I had was Icy Conjurer + Grasp get that minor main to trigger the wraith.

Reactive triggers on "disabling" effects, which as far as I know is only roots and hard-CC (ie, stun and fear).

I've never personally used Icy Conjurer, but when I had another Magicka Necromancer hit me with it recently, I wasn't really impressed (5x ticks was slightly less damage than 1 Blastbones).

Waffennacht

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

First off Arcanist is only useful as a corpse mechanic or a trigger; I'm surprised a 2 sec attack is so low (meh though, corpse fuel is useful...)

The damage was bad on PTS, and they actually nerfed it between the last PTS patch and early access release. I can't fathom why, since it already wasn't really worth using. When you factor in the inability to choose its target (it'll even nuke pets over players, if the pet is closer), and how it'll stop doing damage if it loses LOS, it's pretty obvious how terrible the Skeletal Mage is.

Honestly, the corpse mechanic is so clunky and unreliable that I don't think the Mage is worth running even for that. The only corpse-consuming ability with any real value in PvP - in my opinion, at least - is Renewing Undeath. Having an extra corpse on top of yourself (and therefore often not able to benefit teammates) every 8-16 seconds isn't worth it, if you ask me. The class' regeneration passive can be triggered by the Mender, which is unfortunately still bugged and doesn't always heal even if you don't LOS it, and you can get the +Penetration from Blastbones (I would assume that it'll provide that for itself, unless the game considers it despawned before calculating the damage?) or Boneyard. While I consider Boneyard to be a bad skill for PvP, it can at least be used as an anti-stealth tool, or a self heal from the synergy if you're able to land it.

Waffennacht wrote: »

An interesting idea I had was reactive armor, with blood sacrifice/flesh your minor defile should keep reactive up 100% of the time; or on demand. (Unless I miss understood reactive)

There's several defensive sets; but not too many offensive ones...

Another idea I had was Icy Conjurer + Grasp get that minor main to trigger the wraith.

Reactive triggers on "disabling" effects, which as far as I know is only roots and hard-CC (ie, stun and fear).

I've never personally used Icy Conjurer, but when I had another Magicka Necromancer hit me with it recently, I wasn't really impressed (5x ticks was slightly less damage than 1 Blastbones).

@wheem_ESO yeah I ended up going with none of the above as well.

But what so you think of that ult gen + SnB ult?

katorga

Waffennacht wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

First off Arcanist is only useful as a corpse mechanic or a trigger; I'm surprised a 2 sec attack is so low (meh though, corpse fuel is useful...)

The damage was bad on PTS, and they actually nerfed it between the last PTS patch and early access release. I can't fathom why, since it already wasn't really worth using. When you factor in the inability to choose its target (it'll even nuke pets over players, if the pet is closer), and how it'll stop doing damage if it loses LOS, it's pretty obvious how terrible the Skeletal Mage is.

Honestly, the corpse mechanic is so clunky and unreliable that I don't think the Mage is worth running even for that. The only corpse-consuming ability with any real value in PvP - in my opinion, at least - is Renewing Undeath. Having an extra corpse on top of yourself (and therefore often not able to benefit teammates) every 8-16 seconds isn't worth it, if you ask me. The class' regeneration passive can be triggered by the Mender, which is unfortunately still bugged and doesn't always heal even if you don't LOS it, and you can get the +Penetration from Blastbones (I would assume that it'll provide that for itself, unless the game considers it despawned before calculating the damage?) or Boneyard. While I consider Boneyard to be a bad skill for PvP, it can at least be used as an anti-stealth tool, or a self heal from the synergy if you're able to land it.

Waffennacht wrote: »

An interesting idea I had was reactive armor, with blood sacrifice/flesh your minor defile should keep reactive up 100% of the time; or on demand. (Unless I miss understood reactive)

There's several defensive sets; but not too many offensive ones...

Another idea I had was Icy Conjurer + Grasp get that minor main to trigger the wraith.

Reactive triggers on "disabling" effects, which as far as I know is only roots and hard-CC (ie, stun and fear).

I've never personally used Icy Conjurer, but when I had another Magicka Necromancer hit me with it recently, I wasn't really impressed (5x ticks was slightly less damage than 1 Blastbones).

@wheem_ESO yeah I ended up going with none of the above as well.

But what so you think of that ult gen + SnB ult?

Werewolf hide, Nord, Minor heroism and Necrotic potency is almost too much ultimate regen. I can't mentally adapt to how often I can ult compared to my other characters.