Question about getting oneshot in PvP

feranash

Hi! I have a question/dilemma.

I do a BG, everything is fine. I enter cyrodil or imperial city (no CP) and I am getting oneshot. I have 1750 impen, using transmutation set, playing magnecro with dampen magic. Welp xd

TBois

You are encountering one skill that does more damage than your health? I highly doubt that unless you are being killed by a harmony bomb.

VaranisArano

What's the question?

Except for the alliance campaign buffs in Cyrodiil, there shouldn't be any difference in your own build from no CP Cyrodiil/IC to BGs.

So its more likely that you are facing a wider variety of opponents, since IC and Cyrodiil don't have MMR.

If you want help with your build, or with learning how to counter what's killing you, I'd advise being more specific with what's going on either with your build or what's killing you.

Otherwise, my general advice for dealing with gankers is to build tankier, be alert while in vulnerable positions, and hold block or roll dodge then self heal as soon as you are attacked. Its all about surviving the initial burst so you can actually fight back.

feranash

Ok I will elaborate the situation. I am walking, I have my regenerate HOT on me, got my armor active, so I have like 19K physical and magic resistance, got 1800 impen. (the moment I lose hp and get a healing tick from regen it jumps to 3000).

So I am walking. A nightblade does his teleport jump thingy on me. I break free. I hear an ult. Im dead. Looking at the recap its a combination of the jump ability, LA, ult + caluurion legacy set hit. This is (with the noted stats) enough to bring my 22K hp down. And when it didnt bring me down and I managed to get a dampen magic up. He just finished me off anyway xD

This is as elaborate as I can get. Any thoughts?

ChunkyCat

Sounds like you got out played.

19k resists is nothing. Get close to 30k resists and maybe you’ll last long enough to heal.

Vermethys

Aye, 19k resistances are too low, especially in open-world were gank builds are more prominent than in BGs. I'd recommend going up to at least 25k resistances. It would also help to use some anti-NB tactics when you're wandering in IC especially, like Wall of Elements and detection potions.

feranash

I see. Makes sense. But how to get that resistance up as mag necro? Using light armr obviously. How would a magsorc get that resistance then?

brandonv516

I've ran a build like the one you describe and it comes down to choosing vulnerable targets.

You can usually tell your enemy by watching them for a little while from the shadows.

You'd do okay with about 22k resistances minimum in no-CP.

If you get stunned + damaged from a stealthed magicka NB, be fast about breaking free and immediately shield/block/heal/dodge roll/etc.

Believe it or not, you have time before the Caluurion proc hits (and it's pretty damn obvious).

Then go on the offensive and be prepared for another attempt on your life.

feranash

brandonv516 wrote: »

I've ran a build like the one you describe and it comes down to choosing vulnerable targets.

You can usually tell your enemy by watching them for a little while from the shadows.

You'd do okay with about 22k resistances minimum in no-CP.

If you get stunned + damaged from a stealthed magicka NB, be fast about breaking free and immediately shield/block/heal/dodge roll/etc.

Believe it or not, you have time before the Caluurion proc hits (and it's pretty damn obvious).

Then go on the offensive and be prepared for another attempt on your life.

Thanks for your insightfull feedback. Yet the question eludes me how to get that resistance, using 5 cloth and 2 heavy atm. Should I swap impen for reinforced? Worth the trade?

ChunkyCat

It’s a pretty simple build formula:

Use protective jewelry.

Use one defensive tank set.

Use one offensive dps set.

Use one set with lots of sustain/regen.

Do all of the above and the rest will come with your ability to play.

Waffennacht

Pure light armor = approx 9k resistance
Major buff (resolve etc) 5kish
Protective can provide up to another 5kish
A set like desert rose adds a bit more/ a set like fortified brass adds tons more

Defensive trait on a weapon is another way to get resistance
There's also mundus
(I wouldn't necessarily recommend these two lol)

Impen everything.

Ankael07

When I complained about this oneshot build people accused me of being a potatoe with no defense. Here is a guy with Transmutation+HoT and Major Resistances up at all times getting oneshot all the same.

What some people suggest here is essencialy becoming a tank build with going defensive on all aspects of your build so you can actually survive the gank but dont have enough damage to kill them.

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Sounds like you got out played.

19k resists is nothing. Get close to 30k resists and maybe you’ll last long enough to heal.

''Outplayed'' for sure. All it takes for the Magblade is Teleport Strike + Ulti and best case scenerio youre in execute range if not dead already

feranash

I dont think i can manage to get protective jewelry. Seems they can only be made? Shame the stats are nice.

But about the other given ideas; do you guys suggest I switch my transmutation set (which gives me 1200 impen when I heal myself) for something with physical and spell resistance?

feranash

Ankael07 wrote: »

When I complained about this oneshot build people accused me of being a potatoe with no defense. Here is a guy with Transmutation+HoT and Major Resistances up at all times getting oneshot all the same.

What some people suggest here is essencialy becoming a tank build with going defensive on all aspects of your build so you can actually survive the gank but dont have enough damage to kill them.

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Sounds like you got out played.

19k resists is nothing. Get close to 30k resists and maybe you’ll last long enough to heal.

''Outplayed'' for sure. All it takes for the Magblade is Teleport Strike + Ulti and best case scenerio youre in execute range if not dead already

you feel me brother. you feel me.

brandonv516

feranash wrote: »

I dont think i can manage to get protective jewelry. Seems they can only be made? Shame the stats are nice.

But about the other given ideas; do you guys suggest I switch my transmutation set (which gives me 1200 impen when I heal myself) for something with physical and spell resistance?

Thing about Transmutation is that the 5 piece is only good if it's active. If you are at full health running around (or on your mount in Cyro) you can't keep it up all the time unless you are already engaged - this doesn't help with a gank.*

*If your health is higher on one of your two bars, you can keep it active at all times with a HoT.

I still love the set though.

Have you tried the skill Radiant Magelight? I haven't used it in ages so for all I know it could have been changed. It used to prevent stuns and reduced the damage from stealth attacks while slotted.

KillsAllElves

Ankael07 wrote: »

When I complained about this oneshot build people accused me of being a potatoe with no defense. Here is a guy with Transmutation+HoT and Major Resistances up at all times getting oneshot all the same.

What some people suggest here is essencialy becoming a tank build with going defensive on all aspects of your build so you can actually survive the gank but dont have enough damage to kill them.

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Sounds like you got out played.

19k resists is nothing. Get close to 30k resists and maybe you’ll last long enough to heal.

''Outplayed'' for sure. All it takes for the Magblade is Teleport Strike + Ulti and best case scenerio youre in execute range if not dead already

Caluurions can not one shot players, there must be a combo to proc the set to hit the target.

sounds like another care bear getting ready for a new nerf thread on the forums,

squishy got outplayed!

feranash

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Caluurions can not one shot players, there must be a combo to proc the set to hit the target.

sounds like another care bear getting ready for a new nerf thread on the forums,

squishy got outplayed!

I explained extensively what the opponent did. The set triggers on crit by the way. So the moment he used his ult, the set triggered. All he did was teleport->LA->Ult->Set trigger. 1.5K + 1.5K + 8K + 8K = 19K. This happens in the fraction of a second. The second I used to break free. When I tried using my absorb, his LA-Concealed weapon was faster cause I had to swap bars in all the unsuspected panic.

Not sure what you mean by 'outplayed'. He litterly just pressed: 1-Left mouse-R-Left mouse 2.

feranash

brandonv516 wrote: »

*If your health is higher on one of your two bars, you can keep it active at all times with a HoT.

I still love the set though.

Have you tried the skill Radiant Magelight? I haven't used it in ages so for all I know it could have been changed. It used to prevent stuns and reduced the damage from stealth attacks while slotted.

Sounds interesting, I will look into this!

feranash

I did some calculations regarding the situation, resistances vs impen etc. So my plan is as follows:

-In comparison to now, I would take 6% more damage from crit strikes if i'd take a more resistance build. (With Fortified Brass Set) But my overal defense would be considerably higher. (12%). I might even have to put some magicka regen on my jewelry to compensate for the lack of magicka recovery.
-I will look into the other magelight morph
-I will try to pre-shield more often.

But I think this is all I can do. If any other people have any additional suggestion I could add into my repetoir I'd be very gratefull. I feel like noCP pvp is very unbalanced, and that Zenimax used the CP points as a way to tune PvP (since defence scales harder then offence I assume). But I feel like doing CP battles only

So my plan is

Crixus8000

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Caluurions can not one shot players, there must be a combo to proc the set to hit the target.

sounds like another care bear getting ready for a new nerf thread on the forums,

squishy got outplayed!

Of course their is a combo, caluurions does around 3-7k dmg usually depending on the player.

But how is it outplayed since everything hits at the same time so you have no counterplay since you just die.

I have 36k resists with 2k impen in no cp and have been ganked a few times, it's very rare but it happens and if I can be ganked with my resists I can see how it's so easy for others to die. Cyrodil just has so much dmg, it's why so many are building tanky to counter it.

VaranisArano

feranash wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Caluurions can not one shot players, there must be a combo to proc the set to hit the target.

sounds like another care bear getting ready for a new nerf thread on the forums,

squishy got outplayed!

I explained extensively what the opponent did. The set triggers on crit by the way. So the moment he used his ult, the set triggered. All he did was teleport->LA->Ult->Set trigger. 1.5K + 1.5K + 8K + 8K = 19K. This happens in the fraction of a second. The second I used to break free. When I tried using my absorb, his LA-Concealed weapon was faster cause I had to swap bars in all the unsuspected panic.

Not sure what you mean by 'outplayed'. He litterly just pressed: 1-Left mouse-R-Left mouse 2.

In my experience, sometimes, you are just going to die.

Especially if you arent expecting a 19k burst attack or aren't built to withstand a 19k burst + followup attack or aren't ready to respond decisively to a 19k burst attack before the follow-up happens.

And there's no magic build that will guarantee safety, just some practices that help.

Get tankier. Obviously there's a balance between tankiness and damage dealing ability, but tankier players don't get targeted as much because they have a better chance of surviving that burst. My squishy Stam Warden gets targeted a lot more than my tankier MagDK healer, and so I accept that (and the deaths) as the price of playing the Stam Warden as a glass cannon. Tankiness can be health, crit resists, or plain old physical and spell resistances, and it usually takes some playing around to find a balance between damage/survivability that you are happy with.

Be aware of your surroundings. Its a little paranoid, but the best way to survive a gank or burst attack is to assume that you are going to be jumped, everywhere. There's skills and potions that can reveal stealthed players, but simple awareness helps a lot, particularly while riding.

Practice your reactions until they are reflexive and learn what works and what doesnt in most situations. Break free was a good instant reaction. Then, you pointed out that the follow-up attack killed you because you had to bar swap to reach your Damage Shield, so you might consider what else defensively you might have done to buy yourself time to get off your shield (which might, or might not have worked, since you were deep in execute range already). A simple thing I do is when I'm moving around or riding in Cyrodiil, my active weapon is my defensive bar so that I can respond first with heals/buffs/defense if I'm attacked. Block is an instant dismount and a fast defensive move if you get ganked on horseback.

And as before, sometimes, you will just die no matter what you do. Generally those are players who pull off their attack quickly and have their attack combo down to an art, and they've figured out the counters to the counters. But being squishy, being unaware, or being slow on the counters makes it a lot easier for the gankers to kill you.

Hope that helps!

ChunkyCat

Ankael07 wrote: »

''Outplayed'' for sure.

It’s player vs. player. One guy won. One guy lost. So the guy that won played better.

So yeah, out played. Pretty straightforward. Don’t even need your quotation marks.

feranash

VaranisArano wrote: »

feranash wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Caluurions can not one shot players, there must be a combo to proc the set to hit the target.

sounds like another care bear getting ready for a new nerf thread on the forums,

squishy got outplayed!

I explained extensively what the opponent did. The set triggers on crit by the way. So the moment he used his ult, the set triggered. All he did was teleport->LA->Ult->Set trigger. 1.5K + 1.5K + 8K + 8K = 19K. This happens in the fraction of a second. The second I used to break free. When I tried using my absorb, his LA-Concealed weapon was faster cause I had to swap bars in all the unsuspected panic.

Not sure what you mean by 'outplayed'. He litterly just pressed: 1-Left mouse-R-Left mouse 2.

In my experience, sometimes, you are just going to die.

Especially if you arent expecting a 19k burst attack or aren't built to withstand a 19k burst + followup attack or aren't ready to respond decisively to a 19k burst attack before the follow-up happens.

And there's no magic build that will guarantee safety, just some practices that help.

Get tankier. Obviously there's a balance between tankiness and damage dealing ability, but tankier players don't get targeted as much because they have a better chance of surviving that burst. My squishy Stam Warden gets targeted a lot more than my tankier MagDK healer, and so I accept that (and the deaths) as the price of playing the Stam Warden as a glass cannon. Tankiness can be health, crit resists, or plain old physical and spell resistances, and it usually takes some playing around to find a balance between damage/survivability that you are happy with.

Be aware of your surroundings. Its a little paranoid, but the best way to survive a gank or burst attack is to assume that you are going to be jumped, everywhere. There's skills and potions that can reveal stealthed players, but simple awareness helps a lot, particularly while riding.

Practice your reactions until they are reflexive and learn what works and what doesnt in most situations. Break free was a good instant reaction. Then, you pointed out that the follow-up attack killed you because you had to bar swap to reach your Damage Shield, so you might consider what else defensively you might have done to buy yourself time to get off your shield (which might, or might not have worked, since you were deep in execute range already). A simple thing I do is when I'm moving around or riding in Cyrodiil, my active weapon is my defensive bar so that I can respond first with heals/buffs/defense if I'm attacked. Block is an instant dismount and a fast defensive move if you get ganked on horseback.

And as before, sometimes, you will just die no matter what you do. Generally those are players who pull off their attack quickly and have their attack combo down to an art, and they've figured out the counters to the counters. But being squishy, being unaware, or being slow on the counters makes it a lot easier for the gankers to kill you.

Hope that helps!

I think this will help idd! I will remember these words

Iskiab

feranash wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I've ran a build like the one you describe and it comes down to choosing vulnerable targets.

You can usually tell your enemy by watching them for a little while from the shadows.

You'd do okay with about 22k resistances minimum in no-CP.

If you get stunned + damaged from a stealthed magicka NB, be fast about breaking free and immediately shield/block/heal/dodge roll/etc.

Believe it or not, you have time before the Caluurion proc hits (and it's pretty damn obvious).

Then go on the offensive and be prepared for another attempt on your life.

Thanks for your insightfull feedback. Yet the question eludes me how to get that resistance, using 5 cloth and 2 heavy atm. Should I swap impen for reinforced? Worth the trade?

I always run 5 light in pvp and have only been successfully ganked once in about 5 months, I’m usually in cyrodiil 12 hours a week, always no CP, and that includes BGs.

Some sets you might want to look into:
- fortified brass
- armour master
- buffer of the swift
- pariah
- steadfast hero (if templar)

Those are the best defensive sets. Myself I run buffer of the swift, Breton and x2 protective. 5 light, 1 medium, 1 heavy.

If protective isn’t an option try Nord or Blood Spawn. Blood Spawn is the best monster set for almost all pvp specs.

Burst is up this patch because of minor vulnerability being more common. I agree with people saying 25k min resistances.

One common mistake I see... people use a character builder and click all the buffs, so people think they’re stronger then they are. In reality if someone tries ganking you it’s guaranteed that your proc’d defensive sets won’t be up. Against a stamblade using a maul, if your resistances are under 20k they might as well say 0.

Can’t count the number of times I’ve seen someone say they were ganked with 25k resistances, but really they didn’t have a bloodspawn proc or armour buff up so were at 0 effective resistances when they were ganked.

One last thing, 22k health is a little low. They nerfed witchmothers (so effectively BT too) so make the switch to food.

Waffennacht

There's a reason tanky is the meta.

Tanks can kill glass cannons, can't kill another tank but you couldn't kill them anyway.

Therefore tank > glass cannon

Get tanky or get ganked

mague

feranash wrote: »

But I think this is all I can do. If any other people have any additional suggestion I could add into my repetoir I'd be very gratefull.

Suggestions ? Dont buy the tank crap.

Sure, my Templer with Paria standing in his house can get way over the mitigation cap and take a lot of penetration. Combined with Honor The Dead i can survive insane attacks. Its an Imperial with almost 12k stamina. Block, heal, block, heal.

However, a Templer stuck in self-defense cant help his faction. And they die like everyone else when 5-10 whack on him.

Tanky is all Resource fa**ing with some PvP-zombies.. Thats all a fallacy. In the long run my 7 medium Warden Stamina-support dies not more often then the Templar as long as i play the game as intended and not just for the glorification of the meme.

Robes of Transmutation is because you heal ? Keep the set and find a good group. With the buffs you can go all light like Transmutation and like Blight Throat and a good group will love the impen on heals and will try to protect you.

my 2c

mursie

Ankael07 wrote: »

When I complained about this oneshot build people accused me of being a potatoe with no defense. Here is a guy with Transmutation+HoT and Major Resistances up at all times getting oneshot all the same.

What some people suggest here is essencialy becoming a tank build with going defensive on all aspects of your build so you can actually survive the gank but dont have enough damage to kill them.

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Sounds like you got out played.

19k resists is nothing. Get close to 30k resists and maybe you’ll last long enough to heal.

''Outplayed'' for sure. All it takes for the Magblade is Teleport Strike + Ulti and best case scenerio youre in execute range if not dead already

light armor squishy target is killed by a high damage glass canon rogue.

in other news, water is wet

Noctus

ChunkyCat wrote: »

It’s a pretty simple build formula:

on which server are u. i heard u wanna see some good necro action
https://imgur.com/a/LGkqDoC

feranash wrote: »

Hi! I have a question/dilemma.

I do a BG, everything is fine. I enter cyrodil or imperial city (no CP) and I am getting oneshot. I have 1750 impen, using transmutation set, playing magnecro with dampen magic. Welp xd

here are some players who also make good points on other threads so judging by that they are experienced and u should listen to them. like brandon, waffennacht, chunkycat
i thought im gonna add smthing too.

im actually an absolute glasscannon in pvp most of the time. the reason i dont get killed by a gank is i allways have my defensive bar chosen when im not spotting an enemy.

allways use up to 20 % of my magicka bar for magelight and sneaking is adviced just becouse u dont have the skill cloak doesnt mean u cant be invisible.(the logic is ur regenerating magicka allways why not make use of it)

allways block whenever im standing still.

when in group stick close to other ppl to use them as body shields.

with more experience u will need less defense. ur movement and use of skills will become reflexive and automated like playing a song on an instrument. u will react to any situation and reaction of ur opponent in the right way.

but untill u reach that state after thousands of hours playing pvp u better of going a bit more defensive for now atleast .

by the way some ppl will say its not optimal but try out "whitestrakes" pretty much hinders any finishing attempt and gives u time to react. use that while u build as a glasscannon. also let me know how u doing with that set.
a player specializing to gank u like u describe it usually wont last long after u survive the first attempt.

Noctus

mursie wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

When I complained about this oneshot build people accused me of being a potatoe with no defense. Here is a guy with Transmutation+HoT and Major Resistances up at all times getting oneshot all the same.

What some people suggest here is essencialy becoming a tank build with going defensive on all aspects of your build so you can actually survive the gank but dont have enough damage to kill them.

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Sounds like you got out played.

19k resists is nothing. Get close to 30k resists and maybe you’ll last long enough to heal.

''Outplayed'' for sure. All it takes for the Magblade is Teleport Strike + Ulti and best case scenerio youre in execute range if not dead already

light armor squishy target is killed by a high damage glass canon rogue.

in other news, water is wet

its funny becouse its true

feranash

I am reading some great pieces of advice here. I see a few statements I agree on and disagree on due to ideology how I think balanced PvP should be. But mostly I see good effort and intentions, this fills my heart with joy

So far I am busy getting the bloodspawn set impen. I got the fortified brazz set in combination with crafty alfiq and swapped some skills. In a nutshell I use the destruction knockbag, bklastbones as burst. I lower the resistance (and give myself magicka sustain) with weaknes of elements. Put up an extra dot+magicka recovery with my skeletal mage. And I have dampen magic and 2 HoTs. Of course the armor as well. All this is working pretty great! Tho I certaintly feel badly tuned for PvP but there are other threads dealing better with this topic. I dont think I could burst a healer or tanky sorc down.

All with all, this is working the best so far and if I get a party in IC I am actually helpfull in the damage and dont die instantly. When I see a nightblade going stealthmode I almost immidietly pop my shield and heals, just in case, as I am doing most of the time I am feeling distant of the group.

BlackMadara

@feranash you mentioned that you aren't able to get protective jewelry due to it being craftable. You can transmute jewelry to other traits in clockwork city. You have to have it researched first