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Templars, Channels, and the Elsweyr Changes
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Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual2 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual5 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think someone who wants to claim jabs/sweep are OP should at least go out and see it in open world. I've very rarely have had any concern about getting hit by them in OW. Just simply step through, or in a large fight, just move back and forth around the crowd so the main damage never lands entirely on a single target.2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When did toppling charge become undodgeable?
It didn't. Maybe the off balance did but I'd be hesitant to change it since it grants of balance outside of cc immunity and that's nice to have especially when other cc mechanics have a dot or other debuff that can be applied outside theor cc immunity.I think someone who wants to claim jabs/sweep are OP should at least go out and see it in open world. I've very rarely have had any concern about getting hit by them in OW. Just simply step through, or in a large fight, just move back and forth around the crowd so the main damage never lands entirely on a single target.
Yea my sweeps tooltip is 4300 perfect storm buffed. It hits for 1100 after all the normal mitigation mentioned above. It hits for 800 with major mending lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why is there a discussion here?
It cannot be contested that channeled/cast time skills are undesireable because of inconsistency. Any argument against that is being made for no other reason than to make an argument.0331
06025 -
Noobslayer3255✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »Why is there a discussion here?
It cannot be contested that channeled/cast time skills are undesireable because of inconsistency. Any argument against that is being made for no other reason than to make an argument.
there is no real discussion, what you stated is indeed fact. It's one dude who doesn't play templar or perhaps the game at all, arguing that jabs is the highest damage skill and perhaps most OP damage skill in the game.5 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.
"This spammable ability that does 50% more damage than Wrecking Blow and Snipe, 10% more damage than Blastbones and Warden Shalks, 20% more than Incap, and 10% less than A NB bow proc actually sucks guys, believe me!" -you
It's kinda hard to take any of this seriously anymore when no one will even acknowledge that it's a good ability, and everyone actually insists that it's bad. After it was buffed by 30%, I guess it needs another buff to be competitive with other abilities? Maybe it should do as much damage as a bow proc? Or more? How does 75% more than Wrecking Blow sound? 100%? Where was all of the calls to buff jabs by 30% before Elsweyr? I can't find anyone suggesting it's too weak, probably because most people already knew how much damage it did.
A magdk has to use three gcds to get a tooltip as high as jabs/sweep on Molten Whip, which you didn't even know until a week ago, by the way--you thought it was that high all the time and got a 100% increase of the ~18k tooltip it has. You had absolutely no idea of the damage other abilities were doing before you were corrected and told, so I get the feeling you have no idea what's actually going on in any pvp scenario most of the time.Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.
It doesn't match other spammables. With Major Evasion, you're still doing ~15-20% more than Wrecking Blow.I think someone who wants to claim jabs/sweep are OP should at least go out and see it in open world. I've very rarely have had any concern about getting hit by them in OW. Just simply step through, or in a large fight, just move back and forth around the crowd so the main damage never lands entirely on a single target.
Maybe read the thread (again). I've been using it on my magplar for a bit now. Squishy targets literally die in two channels with a few procs. It's kind of absurd.Edited by ecru on June 9, 2019 5:35PMGryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer1 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.
I didn't mention DBoS, I don't know why you are telling me that.
If you compare jabs with other spammable or even other burst skill while including passive, jabs is even more over the top.
No passive match the damage of burning light procs.
Don't even try to arguing when you speak without prooving anything.
Proove me with major evasion up + full passives/secondary effects on abilities how Jabs perform "poorly" VS other spammable/burst abilities.
There is opinion and there is facts. You cannot negate numbers, even if you are that much biased.1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lol some of you are salty. Came in here to push Templar OP narratives in a thread looking to fix clunky channel animations. Shame shame.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual8 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.
"This spammable ability that does 50% more damage than Wrecking Blow and Snipe, 10% more damage than Blastbones and Warden Shalks, 20% more than Incap, and 10% less than A NB bow proc actually sucks guys, believe me!" -you
It's kinda hard to take any of this seriously anymore when no one will even acknowledge that it's a good ability, and everyone actually insists that it's bad. After it was buffed by 30%, I guess it needs another buff to be competitive with other abilities? Maybe it should do as much damage as a bow proc? Or more? How does 75% more than Wrecking Blow sound? 100%? Where was all of the calls to buff jabs by 30% before Elsweyr? I can't find anyone suggesting it's too weak, probably because most people already knew how much damage it did.
A magdk has to use three gcds to get a tooltip as high as jabs/sweep on Molten Whip, which you didn't even know until a week ago, by the way--you thought it was that high all the time and got a 100% increase of the ~18k tooltip it has. You had absolutely no idea of the damage other abilities were doing before you were corrected and told, so I get the feeling you have no idea what's actually going on in any pvp scenario most of the time.Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.
It doesn't match other spammables. With Major Evasion, you're still doing ~15-20% more than Wrecking Blow.I think someone who wants to claim jabs/sweep are OP should at least go out and see it in open world. I've very rarely have had any concern about getting hit by them in OW. Just simply step through, or in a large fight, just move back and forth around the crowd so the main damage never lands entirely on a single target.
Maybe read the thread (again). I've been using it on my magplar for a bit now. Squishy targets literally die in two channels with a few procs. It's kind of absurd.
I read where you said you were afraid to take it in to pvp.3 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.
I didn't mention DBoS, I don't know why you are telling me that.
If you compare jabs with other spammable or even other burst skill while including passive, jabs is even more over the top.
No passive match the damage of burning light procs.
Don't even try to arguing when you speak without prooving anything.
Proove me with major evasion up + full passives/secondary effects on abilities how Jabs perform "poorly" VS other spammable/burst abilities.
There is opinion and there is facts. You cannot negate numbers, even if you are that much biased.
4300 *0.8*0.9*0.5*.75*0.8 = 800. That's CP, 10% armor after pen, and major evaison from a litany of non-5pc sets. Without evaison it's 1100 roughly per hit. That's like 4k if you can hit them all in 1.1s, which you won't.
Compared to the 20k SA tooltip you'll be seeing, that only has to fight direct/Hardy lower armor values before pen and other modifer.
You don't need to be an expert to see that jabs is fine, and not overpowered. Some of you are insane lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.
"This spammable ability that does 50% more damage than Wrecking Blow and Snipe, 10% more damage than Blastbones and Warden Shalks, 20% more than Incap, and 10% less than A NB bow proc actually sucks guys, believe me!" -you
It's kinda hard to take any of this seriously anymore when no one will even acknowledge that it's a good ability, and everyone actually insists that it's bad. After it was buffed by 30%, I guess it needs another buff to be competitive with other abilities? Maybe it should do as much damage as a bow proc? Or more? How does 75% more than Wrecking Blow sound? 100%? Where was all of the calls to buff jabs by 30% before Elsweyr? I can't find anyone suggesting it's too weak, probably because most people already knew how much damage it did.
A magdk has to use three gcds to get a tooltip as high as jabs/sweep on Molten Whip, which you didn't even know until a week ago, by the way--you thought it was that high all the time and got a 100% increase of the ~18k tooltip it has. You had absolutely no idea of the damage other abilities were doing before you were corrected and told, so I get the feeling you have no idea what's actually going on in any pvp scenario most of the time.Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.
It doesn't match other spammables. With Major Evasion, you're still doing ~15-20% more than Wrecking Blow.I think someone who wants to claim jabs/sweep are OP should at least go out and see it in open world. I've very rarely have had any concern about getting hit by them in OW. Just simply step through, or in a large fight, just move back and forth around the crowd so the main damage never lands entirely on a single target.
Maybe read the thread (again). I've been using it on my magplar for a bit now. Squishy targets literally die in two channels with a few procs. It's kind of absurd.
I read where you said you were afraid to take it in to pvp.
"Jabs hits fine he says, Templar is OP he says".
https://youtu.be/Bk-LMQWXLhs
Look at that fat "DBoS" burst lolMinno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual5 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.
"This spammable ability that does 50% more damage than Wrecking Blow and Snipe, 10% more damage than Blastbones and Warden Shalks, 20% more than Incap, and 10% less than A NB bow proc actually sucks guys, believe me!" -you
It's kinda hard to take any of this seriously anymore when no one will even acknowledge that it's a good ability, and everyone actually insists that it's bad. After it was buffed by 30%, I guess it needs another buff to be competitive with other abilities? Maybe it should do as much damage as a bow proc? Or more? How does 75% more than Wrecking Blow sound? 100%? Where was all of the calls to buff jabs by 30% before Elsweyr? I can't find anyone suggesting it's too weak, probably because most people already knew how much damage it did.
A magdk has to use three gcds to get a tooltip as high as jabs/sweep on Molten Whip, which you didn't even know until a week ago, by the way--you thought it was that high all the time and got a 100% increase of the ~18k tooltip it has. You had absolutely no idea of the damage other abilities were doing before you were corrected and told, so I get the feeling you have no idea what's actually going on in any pvp scenario most of the time.Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.
It doesn't match other spammables. With Major Evasion, you're still doing ~15-20% more than Wrecking Blow.I think someone who wants to claim jabs/sweep are OP should at least go out and see it in open world. I've very rarely have had any concern about getting hit by them in OW. Just simply step through, or in a large fight, just move back and forth around the crowd so the main damage never lands entirely on a single target.
Maybe read the thread (again). I've been using it on my magplar for a bit now. Squishy targets literally die in two channels with a few procs. It's kind of absurd.
I read where you said you were afraid to take it in to pvp.
"Jabs hits fine he says, Templar is OP he says".https://youtu.be/Bk-LMQWXLhs
Look at that fat "DBoS" burst lol
He's a tooltip warrior. Saw him arguing with Thogard in another thread on flurry being good. Doesnt get the overall issues with channels. Only looks at the numbers.4 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.
"This spammable ability that does 50% more damage than Wrecking Blow and Snipe, 10% more damage than Blastbones and Warden Shalks, 20% more than Incap, and 10% less than A NB bow proc actually sucks guys, believe me!" -you
It's kinda hard to take any of this seriously anymore when no one will even acknowledge that it's a good ability, and everyone actually insists that it's bad. After it was buffed by 30%, I guess it needs another buff to be competitive with other abilities? Maybe it should do as much damage as a bow proc? Or more? How does 75% more than Wrecking Blow sound? 100%? Where was all of the calls to buff jabs by 30% before Elsweyr? I can't find anyone suggesting it's too weak, probably because most people already knew how much damage it did.
A magdk has to use three gcds to get a tooltip as high as jabs/sweep on Molten Whip, which you didn't even know until a week ago, by the way--you thought it was that high all the time and got a 100% increase of the ~18k tooltip it has. You had absolutely no idea of the damage other abilities were doing before you were corrected and told, so I get the feeling you have no idea what's actually going on in any pvp scenario most of the time.Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.
It doesn't match other spammables. With Major Evasion, you're still doing ~15-20% more than Wrecking Blow.I think someone who wants to claim jabs/sweep are OP should at least go out and see it in open world. I've very rarely have had any concern about getting hit by them in OW. Just simply step through, or in a large fight, just move back and forth around the crowd so the main damage never lands entirely on a single target.
Maybe read the thread (again). I've been using it on my magplar for a bit now. Squishy targets literally die in two channels with a few procs. It's kind of absurd.
I read where you said you were afraid to take it in to pvp.
"Jabs hits fine he says, Templar is OP he says".https://youtu.be/Bk-LMQWXLhs
Look at that fat "DBoS" burst lol
He's a tooltip warrior. Saw him arguing with Thogard in another thread on flurry being good. Doesnt get the overall issues with channels. Only looks at the numbers.
Lol what class does he play?Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.
"This spammable ability that does 50% more damage than Wrecking Blow and Snipe, 10% more damage than Blastbones and Warden Shalks, 20% more than Incap, and 10% less than A NB bow proc actually sucks guys, believe me!" -you
It's kinda hard to take any of this seriously anymore when no one will even acknowledge that it's a good ability, and everyone actually insists that it's bad. After it was buffed by 30%, I guess it needs another buff to be competitive with other abilities? Maybe it should do as much damage as a bow proc? Or more? How does 75% more than Wrecking Blow sound? 100%? Where was all of the calls to buff jabs by 30% before Elsweyr? I can't find anyone suggesting it's too weak, probably because most people already knew how much damage it did.
A magdk has to use three gcds to get a tooltip as high as jabs/sweep on Molten Whip, which you didn't even know until a week ago, by the way--you thought it was that high all the time and got a 100% increase of the ~18k tooltip it has. You had absolutely no idea of the damage other abilities were doing before you were corrected and told, so I get the feeling you have no idea what's actually going on in any pvp scenario most of the time.Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.
It doesn't match other spammables. With Major Evasion, you're still doing ~15-20% more than Wrecking Blow.I think someone who wants to claim jabs/sweep are OP should at least go out and see it in open world. I've very rarely have had any concern about getting hit by them in OW. Just simply step through, or in a large fight, just move back and forth around the crowd so the main damage never lands entirely on a single target.
Maybe read the thread (again). I've been using it on my magplar for a bit now. Squishy targets literally die in two channels with a few procs. It's kind of absurd.
I read where you said you were afraid to take it in to pvp.
"Jabs hits fine he says, Templar is OP he says".https://youtu.be/Bk-LMQWXLhs
Look at that fat "DBoS" burst lol
Look at that boy :
No elemental drain applied
No weaving
No berserker glyph
Only 2.3k spell damage
Only 28K magicka (WTF)
Bad choice decision to use jabs without speed buff VS an ennemy going away with
With that super low stats + ennemy having major evasion, that bad gameplay manage to hit jabs for 824.
So with a proper build you will hit far more than a 2.3k spell damage 28k magicka build.
What did you even try to proove ?0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.
"This spammable ability that does 50% more damage than Wrecking Blow and Snipe, 10% more damage than Blastbones and Warden Shalks, 20% more than Incap, and 10% less than A NB bow proc actually sucks guys, believe me!" -you
It's kinda hard to take any of this seriously anymore when no one will even acknowledge that it's a good ability, and everyone actually insists that it's bad. After it was buffed by 30%, I guess it needs another buff to be competitive with other abilities? Maybe it should do as much damage as a bow proc? Or more? How does 75% more than Wrecking Blow sound? 100%? Where was all of the calls to buff jabs by 30% before Elsweyr? I can't find anyone suggesting it's too weak, probably because most people already knew how much damage it did.
A magdk has to use three gcds to get a tooltip as high as jabs/sweep on Molten Whip, which you didn't even know until a week ago, by the way--you thought it was that high all the time and got a 100% increase of the ~18k tooltip it has. You had absolutely no idea of the damage other abilities were doing before you were corrected and told, so I get the feeling you have no idea what's actually going on in any pvp scenario most of the time.Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.
It doesn't match other spammables. With Major Evasion, you're still doing ~15-20% more than Wrecking Blow.I think someone who wants to claim jabs/sweep are OP should at least go out and see it in open world. I've very rarely have had any concern about getting hit by them in OW. Just simply step through, or in a large fight, just move back and forth around the crowd so the main damage never lands entirely on a single target.
Maybe read the thread (again). I've been using it on my magplar for a bit now. Squishy targets literally die in two channels with a few procs. It's kind of absurd.
I read where you said you were afraid to take it in to pvp.
"Jabs hits fine he says, Templar is OP he says".https://youtu.be/Bk-LMQWXLhs
Look at that fat "DBoS" burst lol
He's a tooltip warrior. Saw him arguing with Thogard in another thread on flurry being good. Doesnt get the overall issues with channels. Only looks at the numbers.
Lol what class does he play?
That might be rhetorical question but sounds like anything that attack a skeleton or a trash mob to feel BA with flurry and jabs.1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.
"This spammable ability that does 50% more damage than Wrecking Blow and Snipe, 10% more damage than Blastbones and Warden Shalks, 20% more than Incap, and 10% less than A NB bow proc actually sucks guys, believe me!" -you
It's kinda hard to take any of this seriously anymore when no one will even acknowledge that it's a good ability, and everyone actually insists that it's bad. After it was buffed by 30%, I guess it needs another buff to be competitive with other abilities? Maybe it should do as much damage as a bow proc? Or more? How does 75% more than Wrecking Blow sound? 100%? Where was all of the calls to buff jabs by 30% before Elsweyr? I can't find anyone suggesting it's too weak, probably because most people already knew how much damage it did.
A magdk has to use three gcds to get a tooltip as high as jabs/sweep on Molten Whip, which you didn't even know until a week ago, by the way--you thought it was that high all the time and got a 100% increase of the ~18k tooltip it has. You had absolutely no idea of the damage other abilities were doing before you were corrected and told, so I get the feeling you have no idea what's actually going on in any pvp scenario most of the time.Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.
It doesn't match other spammables. With Major Evasion, you're still doing ~15-20% more than Wrecking Blow.I think someone who wants to claim jabs/sweep are OP should at least go out and see it in open world. I've very rarely have had any concern about getting hit by them in OW. Just simply step through, or in a large fight, just move back and forth around the crowd so the main damage never lands entirely on a single target.
Maybe read the thread (again). I've been using it on my magplar for a bit now. Squishy targets literally die in two channels with a few procs. It's kind of absurd.
I read where you said you were afraid to take it in to pvp.
"Jabs hits fine he says, Templar is OP he says".https://youtu.be/Bk-LMQWXLhs
Look at that fat "DBoS" burst lol
Look at that boy :
No elemental drain applied
No weaving
No berserker glyph
Only 2.3k spell damage
Only 28K magicka (WTF)
Bad choice decision to use jabs without speed buff VS an ennemy going away with
With that super low stats + ennemy having major evasion, that bad gameplay manage to hit jabs for 824.
So with a proper build you will hit far more than a 2.3k spell damage 28k magicka build.
What did you even try to proove ?
nCP probably here. I have all that you mention above and can have sweeps hit for 800. It's not bad gameplay, that's just jabs lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual3 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Well this thread is getting a bit heated.
Let me clear some things up:
1.
@ecru
Puncturing Strikes: Reduced the channel time for this ability and its morphs from to 1 seconds from 1.1 seconds. Praise the sun for whole numbers!
This patch puncturing strikes channeled time together with the post global cooldown removal, lost .3 seconds of total cast time, thats a 23% overall dps increase, but as many have pointed it out in this thread(and this effects not just puncturing strikes), the post global cooldown still seems to be present, in the form of extra animation time.
2.
Comparing fully buffed tooltips is almost completely pointless, due to things like cp, different gear sets etc.
Puncturing strikes at base(no cp, gear, stats, food, anything) deals 277,8(lets call it 278) per jab, to the closest target.
Thats a total of 1112 damage over the duration of the 1 second channel.
After the 14% damage decrease this patch Uppercut deals 1030 base damage(the old value was 1191).
Not the 50% damage difference you are talking about.
Now of course , Burning light deals 437 damage with a 25% proc chance and on average should proc twice per sets of jabs
So on average, on a stationary target, a single set of jabs, with burning light procs, will outdps Uppercut.
But unlike puncturing strikes, Uppercut does its whole damage in a single hit, which is very important in PVP, since burst is king.
3.
Comparing puncturing strike to wardens Scorch or Necromancers Blastbones, is pointless.
Why? Beacuse those deal their full damage to all targets hit, both delayed "Power Moves", where puncturing strikes does its full damage to 1 single target, and far less damage to all other targets.
Also hitting multiple targets with jabs means that burning light procs are spread across those targets, hence your actual damage to the closest target is diminished.
4.
Puncturing Strikes damage is reduced by Major Evasion.
For the record, i think this is fair, beacuse the ability is undodgeable, but of course its conal nature and bad crosshair tracking means that enemies can actually get out of the cone and not be hit by any number of jabs.
Also its not 25% reduction, due to how different sources of defences stack in this game. IT would be 25% if the person running major evasion had no other source of damage mitigation(including the ever present battle spirit).
@Aedaryl
Cinbri plays on PC EU, on NON CP, ofc he has low max magicka, probably running a sustain oriented build(from what i remember from him when facing him in BGs).
The clip was there to demonstrate how jabs are missing a strafing target that was in the range of jabs( at least from Cinbris perspective), and not to showcase his skills as a templar(he is actually a really good player).
Judging someones build/skill from a 6 second youtube clip is incredibly stupid.
Overall i dont think that either Puncturing Sweeps or Biting Jabs are terrible abilities, but both suffer from a lot of issues, that often stem from server side positional desyncs, and not necessaraly tied to the skill itself.
Also for the record, i was 100% agansit the uppercut damage decrease, and still would like ZOS to revert it at least.
Also ive been getting a lot of macroslice moments with jabs since the new patch, mostly when i use jabs to finish off low health targets. Its quite annoying.
Another thing that needs to be said, since were comparing tooltips:
Magicka templars in endgame PVE still use elemental weapon as their main spammable, and stamina templars are sitting at the smack bottom of the dps pit(although thats not JUST beacuse of jabs).
TLDR:
Jabs arent overpowered in any way, if you get killed by someone jabbing you to death, you need to rethink your strategy, improve your gameplay etc.
But the skill also isnt a useless pile of garbage that does 0 damage.
Damage wise i like where the skill is, its the ease of with which people can stack defenses these day(and this effects everyone really), that can give of the wrong perception of this skill being low damage. Btw 800*4 is still 3600 which is what a lot stamblades suprise attacks hit for in no cp vs a tanky target.
Edit:
I should also add that even if jabs was op on paper, thats no excuse for its bugs not getting fixed, which what this thread was started about.Edited by Firstmep on June 9, 2019 7:31PM8 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well this thread is getting a bit heated.
Let me clear some things up:
1.
@ecru
Puncturing Strikes: Reduced the channel time for this ability and its morphs from to 1 seconds from 1.1 seconds. Praise the sun for whole numbers!
This patch puncturing strikes channeled time together with the post global cooldown removal, lost .3 seconds of total cast time, thats a 23% overall dps increase, but as many have pointed it out in this thread(and this effects not just puncturing strikes), the post global cooldown still seems to be present, in the form of extra animation time.
2.
Comparing fully buffed tooltips is almost completely pointless, due to things like cp, different gear sets etc.
Puncturing strikes at base(no cp, gear, stats, food, anything) deals 277,8(lets call it 278) per jab, to the closest target.
Thats a total of 1112 damage over the duration of the 1 second channel.
After the 14% damage decrease this patch Uppercut deals 1030 base damage(the old value was 1191).
Not the 50% damage difference you are talking about.
Now of course , Burning light deals 437 damage with a 25% proc chance and on average should proc twice per sets of jabs
So on average, on a stationary target, a single set of jabs, with burning light procs, will outdps Uppercut.
But unlike puncturing strikes, Uppercut does its whole damage in a single hit, which is very important in PVP, since burst is king.
3.
Comparing puncturing strike to wardens Scorch or Necromancers Blastbones, is pointless.
Why? Beacuse those deal their full damage to all targets hit, both delayed "Power Moves", where puncturing strikes does its full damage to 1 single target, and far less damage to all other targets.
Also hitting multiple targets with jabs means that burning light procs are spread across those targets, hence your actual damage to the closest target is diminished.
4.
Puncturing Strikes damage is reduced by Major Evasion.
For the record, i think this is fair, beacuse the ability is undodgeable, but of course its conal nature and bad crosshair tracking means that enemies can actually get out of the cone and not be hit by any number of jabs.
Also its not 25% reduction, due to how different sources of defences stack in this game. IT would be 25% if the person running major evasion had no other source of damage mitigation(including the ever present battle spirit).
@Aedaryl
Cinbri plays on PC EU, on NON CP, ofc he has low max magicka, probably running a sustain oriented build(from what i remember from him when facing him in BGs).
The clip was there to demonstrate how jabs are missing a strafing target that was in the range of jabs( at least from Cinbris perspective), and not to showcase his skills as a templar(he is actually a really good player).
Judging someones build/skill from a 6 second youtube clip is incredibly stupid.
Overall i dont think that either Puncturing Sweeps or Biting Jabs are terrible abilities, but both suffer from a lot of issues, that often stem from server side positional desyncs, and not necessaraly tied to the skill itself.
Also for the record, i was 100% agansit the uppercut damage decrease, and still would like ZOS to revert it at least.
Also ive been getting a lot of macroslice moments with jabs since the new patch, mostly when i use jabs to finish off low health targets. Its quite annoying.
Another thing that needs to be said, since were comparing tooltips:
Magicka templars in endgame PVE still use elemental weapon as their main spammable, and stamina templars are sitting at the smack bottom of the dps pit(although thats not JUST beacuse of jabs).
TLDR:
Jabs arent overpowered in any way, if you get killed by someone jabbing you to death, you need to rethink your strategy, improve your gameplay etc.
But the skill also isnt a useless pile of garbage that does 0 damage.
Damage wise i like where the skill is, its the ease of with which people can stack defenses these day(and this effects everyone really), that can give of the wrong perception of this skill being low damage. Btw 800*4 is still 3600 which is what a lot stamblades suprise attacks hit for in no cp vs a tanky target.
Comparing base tooltip totaly naked is stupid, simply because you don't run naked in cyrodil.
Because balance is not about naked people but about builds and mix max, including strengh and weakness of classes, you take the meta builds to compare.
And reality is about the tooltips, because tooltips are mitigated the same way (expect for major evasion). Even when taking to account major evasion, no spammable and match jabs.
Sorry this is reality.
I didn't judge the player, I judged what I saw on the video. It's bad moove and bad choices from the player making that clip increadibly stupid. Surprise : landing a melee ability without speed on a retreating player with major expedition doesn't work, bad choice to complain about jabs.
Also, these 800*4 = 3600 equaling stamblade is damage with very bad set up (2.3k spell damage, 28k magicka without eledrain) a good and realistic build have 34.5k magicka and 3k spell damage. So with a proper build it translate into high damage.
PvE isn't PvP also.
Jabs isn't used because the buff it receive work half the time, which is a problem.
The goal here is to say that jabs with real 1s duration deal extremely high damage and should have a damage reduction once the ability is fixed.
1 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well this thread is getting a bit heated.
Let me clear some things up:
1.
@ecru
Puncturing Strikes: Reduced the channel time for this ability and its morphs from to 1 seconds from 1.1 seconds. Praise the sun for whole numbers!
This patch puncturing strikes channeled time together with the post global cooldown removal, lost .3 seconds of total cast time, thats a 23% overall dps increase, but as many have pointed it out in this thread(and this effects not just puncturing strikes), the post global cooldown still seems to be present, in the form of extra animation time.
I don't know why I should even continue reading the rest of this post if your first point is wrong. I've tested it, I posted the parses in this thread, whatever this "post global cooldown in the form of extra animation time" you're talking about doesn't effect how the ability actually functions. Jabs/Sweep can be weaved nearly as fast as an instant ability. If there was still an extra 200ms, it would be present in the parses--it isn't.
It's really hard to take you guys seriously when you won't even test these things yourselves before making these assertions.Well this thread is getting a bit heated.
Let me clear some things up:
1.
@ecru
Puncturing Strikes: Reduced the channel time for this ability and its morphs from to 1 seconds from 1.1 seconds. Praise the sun for whole numbers!
This patch puncturing strikes channeled time together with the post global cooldown removal, lost .3 seconds of total cast time, thats a 23% overall dps increase, but as many have pointed it out in this thread(and this effects not just puncturing strikes), the post global cooldown still seems to be present, in the form of extra animation time.
2.
Comparing fully buffed tooltips is almost completely pointless, due to things like cp, different gear sets etc.
Puncturing strikes at base(no cp, gear, stats, food, anything) deals 277,8(lets call it 278) per jab, to the closest target.
Thats a total of 1112 damage over the duration of the 1 second channel.
After the 14% damage decrease this patch Uppercut deals 1030 base damage(the old value was 1191).
Not the 50% damage difference you are talking about.
Now of course , Burning light deals 437 damage with a 25% proc chance and on average should proc twice per sets of jabs
So on average, on a stationary target, a single set of jabs, with burning light procs, will outdps Uppercut.
But unlike puncturing strikes, Uppercut does its whole damage in a single hit, which is very important in PVP, since burst is king.
3.
Comparing puncturing strike to wardens Scorch or Necromancers Blastbones, is pointless.
Why? Beacuse those deal their full damage to all targets hit, both delayed "Power Moves", where puncturing strikes does its full damage to 1 single target, and far less damage to all other targets.
Also hitting multiple targets with jabs means that burning light procs are spread across those targets, hence your actual damage to the closest target is diminished.
4.
Puncturing Strikes damage is reduced by Major Evasion.
For the record, i think this is fair, beacuse the ability is undodgeable, but of course its conal nature and bad crosshair tracking means that enemies can actually get out of the cone and not be hit by any number of jabs.
Also its not 25% reduction, due to how different sources of defences stack in this game. IT would be 25% if the person running major evasion had no other source of damage mitigation(including the ever present battle spirit).
@Aedaryl
Cinbri plays on PC EU, on NON CP, ofc he has low max magicka, probably running a sustain oriented build(from what i remember from him when facing him in BGs).
The clip was there to demonstrate how jabs are missing a strafing target that was in the range of jabs( at least from Cinbris perspective), and not to showcase his skills as a templar(he is actually a really good player).
Judging someones build/skill from a 6 second youtube clip is incredibly stupid.
Overall i dont think that either Puncturing Sweeps or Biting Jabs are terrible abilities, but both suffer from a lot of issues, that often stem from server side positional desyncs, and not necessaraly tied to the skill itself.
Also for the record, i was 100% agansit the uppercut damage decrease, and still would like ZOS to revert it at least.
Also ive been getting a lot of macroslice moments with jabs since the new patch, mostly when i use jabs to finish off low health targets. Its quite annoying.
Another thing that needs to be said, since were comparing tooltips:
Magicka templars in endgame PVE still use elemental weapon as their main spammable, and stamina templars are sitting at the smack bottom of the dps pit(although thats not JUST beacuse of jabs).
TLDR:
Jabs arent overpowered in any way, if you get killed by someone jabbing you to death, you need to rethink your strategy, improve your gameplay etc.
But the skill also isnt a useless pile of garbage that does 0 damage.
Damage wise i like where the skill is, its the ease of with which people can stack defenses these day(and this effects everyone really), that can give of the wrong perception of this skill being low damage. Btw 800*4 is still 3600 which is what a lot stamblades suprise attacks hit for in no cp vs a tanky target.
Comparing base tooltip totaly naked is stupid, simply because you don't run naked in cyrodil.
Because balance is not about naked people but about builds and mix max, including strengh and weakness of classes, you take the meta builds to compare.
And reality is about the tooltips, because tooltips are mitigated the same way (expect for major evasion). Even when taking to account major evasion, no spammable and match jabs.
Sorry this is reality.
I didn't judge the player, I judged what I saw on the video. It's bad moove and bad choices from the player making that clip increadibly stupid. Surprise : landing a melee ability without speed on a retreating player with major expedition doesn't work, bad choice to complain about jabs.
Also, these 800*4 = 3600 equaling stamblade is damage with very bad set up (2.3k spell damage, 28k magicka without eledrain) a good and realistic build have 34.5k magicka and 3k spell damage. So with a proper build it translate into high damage.
PvE isn't PvP also.
Jabs isn't used because the buff it receive work half the time, which is a problem.
The goal here is to say that jabs with real 1s duration deal extremely high damage and should have a damage reduction once the ability is fixed.
I agree with the last part of this post and this is mostly what I've been trying to say. Clearly there are issues with channeled abilities, but when they work properly, jabs does a ridiculous amount of damage in comparison to other abilities which require the same cast/channel time. For me, it works properly the vast majority of the time, and I have no problem weaving it really well. A lot of players here seem to have a problem using it efficiently though, which I think would be solved by like ten minutes in front of a dummy actually learning/practicing the timing.Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.
"This spammable ability that does 50% more damage than Wrecking Blow and Snipe, 10% more damage than Blastbones and Warden Shalks, 20% more than Incap, and 10% less than A NB bow proc actually sucks guys, believe me!" -you
It's kinda hard to take any of this seriously anymore when no one will even acknowledge that it's a good ability, and everyone actually insists that it's bad. After it was buffed by 30%, I guess it needs another buff to be competitive with other abilities? Maybe it should do as much damage as a bow proc? Or more? How does 75% more than Wrecking Blow sound? 100%? Where was all of the calls to buff jabs by 30% before Elsweyr? I can't find anyone suggesting it's too weak, probably because most people already knew how much damage it did.
A magdk has to use three gcds to get a tooltip as high as jabs/sweep on Molten Whip, which you didn't even know until a week ago, by the way--you thought it was that high all the time and got a 100% increase of the ~18k tooltip it has. You had absolutely no idea of the damage other abilities were doing before you were corrected and told, so I get the feeling you have no idea what's actually going on in any pvp scenario most of the time.Another issue with puncturing strikes and their morphs.
Is there any raison to slot this skill anymore ?
Yes. One channel of jabs does more damage than the higher damage morph of Dawnbreaker. It's the highest damage spammable ability in the game by a substantial (like 40%) margin.
You have a spammable ability which does, in one second, equal damage to basically all stam dots/bleeds (which happens over 10 seconds), more damage than dawnbreaker, more damage (40% more) than Snipe, more damage than warden shalks, more damage than blastbones.. uh.. do I need to go on? You can use this ability every second and get the same damage out of it that a necro or a warden can only get, at most, every 3 seconds. Think that over for a minute.
This is with the same gear:
Biting Jabs: 18,864 damage
Subterranean assault: 15,941 damage
Blighted Blastbones: 17,282 damage
Dawnbreaker of Smiting: 18,580 damage
Relentless Focus: 20,742 (only 10% more damage, only usable every 5th gcd)doe
I'm even a bit confused on how it made it to the live servers in it's current state. When it was only usable every 1.3s, I guess that was fine, but now that it's 30% faster it's hard to find any other ability in the game that it's comparable to.
edited to include another ability lol
Lol spread out in four attack while you can't defend with all those other options letting you have anything to dodge roll/bar swap to a defense. DBoS does A LOT more DMG than sweeps you conviently left out the dot, and paired it up against a weird mix of single target/aoe/burst.
Yes, I'm comparing the direct damage portion of dawnbreaker, which still required 150 ult to use. The point is that there isn't any ability in the game that is in any way comparable, channeled or otherwise, that does the same amount of damage as jabs. I'm comparing it to those abilities because they're only usable every 3-5 seconds, whereas jabs is spammable. Nothing else does similar damage, so there are no "instant" abilities to even compare them to.
If you want me to compare it to abilities that are usable every 1 second, the numbers are going to be a lot smaller and the disparity a lot higher. Snipe with the same gear has a 12.5k tooltip. Wrecking blow is the same. So a 1s channel of jabs does 50% more damage than a 1s cast of Wrecking Blow or Snipe.
My earlier post was meant to answer the question of "should I just unslot jab/sweep?" The answer is yes. Please unslot it. lol..
edit: The closest ability would actually be Flurry I guess, since it's also a channel. Tooltip on Flurry is 12,152 or slightly higher due to the slight increase of Rapid Strikes (probably almost exactly 12.5k like Wrecking Blow/Snipe). So yeah, it does 50% more damage than Flurry too.
You can't compare a locked channel that requires you to hit 4 times to things like 3s burst you can hold until the right moment lol.
I mean, even landing three of those hits is still almost 20% more damage than Flurry. I've been playing my magplar in BGs lately and it's not hard to land or weave at all IMO, but I'm used to playing melee and using Flurry.
The comparison to shalks/blastbones/dawnbreaker is because they're typically seen as higher damage abilities. It's used to show how the damage of jabs is a bit of an outlier. The comparison to Flurry, Snipe, and Wrecking Blow reinforce that with Jabs being roughly 50% stronger.
So forgetting other benefits:
- Wrecking CC's and has ability to proc enchants/poisons
- snipe has defile in addition to cause poison which has additional DMG outside the tooltip. Can also deal more DMG as you are far away and hit targets with light attacks.
- flurry is ass I agree lol. But even that has access to procing enchants/poisons in addition to extra DMG when stunned/silenced/etc along with extra DMG on low health.
- jabs has 4 hits, last hit snare, burning light every 2 hits, minor protection on cast (crit if jabs).
You aren't looking at the entire picture, just Lazer focused on jabs. First saying it's in a decent spot then saying it's overloaded. You also forget that jabs is reduced by major evaison, wrecking blow/snipe/flurry are not. So your 18k tooltip example, now deals 14k against that flurry user running blade cloak lol.
I guess if everything that can go wrong goes wrong (lag, missing half of your channel every time, your target blocking and dodge rolling at the same time [somehow], major evasion up 24/7, etc) it's not that great. Most targets won't have major evasion and you really only need one second of uninterrupted damage for each channel. You make it sound like it's some absurdly long channel, but it's just 1000ms. You also get the snare which makes it really, really easy to stay with that target.
But even two uninterrupted channels back to back is like eating three wrecking blows in a few seconds. Everyone knows that's a lot of damage. It has a really high damage ceiling compared to just about anything, and when it reaches that ceiling (as it often does), it's really really good. Then you have burning light procs..
I'm switching my magplar over to stam for a reason.
Cant wait to see your videos posted of all the decent players you kill and even 1vX against with your magplar. No cheese
Lol
:: Says jabs OP and stronger than DBOS but rarely plays Templar::
:: completly ingnore the math and facts and go ad hominen attack because it's the only thing left ::
Lol
Especially in Elsweyr, landing jabs is very easy. Magicka finally have a decent snare removal (RAT) to keep being mobile + a stun that's also undogeable + deal damage + gap close (perfect for jabs) + increase damage by 10% in CP (off balance).
Also, saying people can rolldodge isn't an argument. Because jabs is a spammable and roll dodge cannot be spammed, and because ennemy still take a portion of the damage, while other spammable does not hit at all.
About channels abilities, ZoS really need to make it consistent. And then balance jabs number to make it stronger than other spammable but not 16k+ tooltip (add 5.5k+ burning light and you are around 20k damage in a second while force pulse is about 10k with the same set up lol).
Lol poor baby you must have missed my rebuttal where I mentioned he conviently leaves out DBoS dot, compares jabs to instant cast burst DMG, doesn't account for full passives/secondary effects on abilities, and the fact major evaison pulls jabs DMG down from 18k to 14k which matches other spamable. Not to mention is still reduced by both think skin and ironclad, though we can't fully test anymore.
It doesn't match other spammables. With Major Evasion, you're still doing ~15-20% more than Wrecking Blow.I think someone who wants to claim jabs/sweep are OP should at least go out and see it in open world. I've very rarely have had any concern about getting hit by them in OW. Just simply step through, or in a large fight, just move back and forth around the crowd so the main damage never lands entirely on a single target.
Maybe read the thread (again). I've been using it on my magplar for a bit now. Squishy targets literally die in two channels with a few procs. It's kind of absurd.
I read where you said you were afraid to take it in to pvp.
"Jabs hits fine he says, Templar is OP he says".https://youtu.be/Bk-LMQWXLhs
Look at that fat "DBoS" burst lol
He's a tooltip warrior. Saw him arguing with Thogard in another thread on flurry being good. Doesnt get the overall issues with channels. Only looks at the numbers.
Thogard is stubborn and doesn't test anything. Up until recently he wouldn't even turn combat metrics on, claiming it to be "useless". No, actually, seeing recaps of what killed you instead of guessing is in fact useful (he's since finally turned it on, phew). He doesn't know how much damage Flurry does and he wasn't even aware of the dw passives that provide increased damage sub 25 and to cc'd targets. At no point could he explain why it was bad even after being asked multiple times, which should be a pretty easy thing to do if it's so terrible, right?
About Flurry: after the Elsweyr buff, with Deadly Strike (which is what the discussion was about) Flurry does more damage than Reverse slice sub 50% until your target hits around 10% health (Executioner is a bit higher, around 15% I'd imagine), and past that point Reverse Slice is only better by a few percent, but Flurry will still do more damage if your target is CC'd in any way. If you're running 2h/dw, that means Reverse Slice may be a wasted slot that you can replace with something else, but Flurry is bad I guess. Aside from that, Flurry always, in every situation, does slightly more damage than Wrecking Blow with the same set. It can also be weaved just as fast as an instant ability due to the 200ms post gcd change, making it slightly faster to use than Wrecking Blow in every situation. If you're a 2h/dw stamdk in need of a spammable, it's now a good choice after Elsweyr. It's also cheaper than Wrecking Blow but I suppose that also doesn't matter because reasons.
But none of that means anything because Thogard said so, lol. It seems like a lot of people in general have issues with channeled abilities and it seems like mostly a L2P issue with animation cancelling aside from when there's a lot of lag, but when there's a lot of lag, nothing works the way it's supposed to. People need to actually test these things out before making assertions based on their feelings.Edited by ecru on June 9, 2019 8:52PMGryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Well this thread is getting a bit heated.
Let me clear some things up:
1.
@ecru
Puncturing Strikes: Reduced the channel time for this ability and its morphs from to 1 seconds from 1.1 seconds. Praise the sun for whole numbers!
This patch puncturing strikes channeled time together with the post global cooldown removal, lost .3 seconds of total cast time, thats a 23% overall dps increase, but as many have pointed it out in this thread(and this effects not just puncturing strikes), the post global cooldown still seems to be present, in the form of extra animation time.
2.
Comparing fully buffed tooltips is almost completely pointless, due to things like cp, different gear sets etc.
Puncturing strikes at base(no cp, gear, stats, food, anything) deals 277,8(lets call it 278) per jab, to the closest target.
Thats a total of 1112 damage over the duration of the 1 second channel.
After the 14% damage decrease this patch Uppercut deals 1030 base damage(the old value was 1191).
Not the 50% damage difference you are talking about.
Now of course , Burning light deals 437 damage with a 25% proc chance and on average should proc twice per sets of jabs
So on average, on a stationary target, a single set of jabs, with burning light procs, will outdps Uppercut.
But unlike puncturing strikes, Uppercut does its whole damage in a single hit, which is very important in PVP, since burst is king.
3.
Comparing puncturing strike to wardens Scorch or Necromancers Blastbones, is pointless.
Why? Beacuse those deal their full damage to all targets hit, both delayed "Power Moves", where puncturing strikes does its full damage to 1 single target, and far less damage to all other targets.
Also hitting multiple targets with jabs means that burning light procs are spread across those targets, hence your actual damage to the closest target is diminished.
4.
Puncturing Strikes damage is reduced by Major Evasion.
For the record, i think this is fair, beacuse the ability is undodgeable, but of course its conal nature and bad crosshair tracking means that enemies can actually get out of the cone and not be hit by any number of jabs.
Also its not 25% reduction, due to how different sources of defences stack in this game. IT would be 25% if the person running major evasion had no other source of damage mitigation(including the ever present battle spirit).
@Aedaryl
Cinbri plays on PC EU, on NON CP, ofc he has low max magicka, probably running a sustain oriented build(from what i remember from him when facing him in BGs).
The clip was there to demonstrate how jabs are missing a strafing target that was in the range of jabs( at least from Cinbris perspective), and not to showcase his skills as a templar(he is actually a really good player).
Judging someones build/skill from a 6 second youtube clip is incredibly stupid.
Overall i dont think that either Puncturing Sweeps or Biting Jabs are terrible abilities, but both suffer from a lot of issues, that often stem from server side positional desyncs, and not necessaraly tied to the skill itself.
Also for the record, i was 100% agansit the uppercut damage decrease, and still would like ZOS to revert it at least.
Also ive been getting a lot of macroslice moments with jabs since the new patch, mostly when i use jabs to finish off low health targets. Its quite annoying.
Another thing that needs to be said, since were comparing tooltips:
Magicka templars in endgame PVE still use elemental weapon as their main spammable, and stamina templars are sitting at the smack bottom of the dps pit(although thats not JUST beacuse of jabs).
TLDR:
Jabs arent overpowered in any way, if you get killed by someone jabbing you to death, you need to rethink your strategy, improve your gameplay etc.
But the skill also isnt a useless pile of garbage that does 0 damage.
Damage wise i like where the skill is, its the ease of with which people can stack defenses these day(and this effects everyone really), that can give of the wrong perception of this skill being low damage. Btw 800*4 is still 3600 which is what a lot stamblades suprise attacks hit for in no cp vs a tanky target.
Comparing base tooltip totaly naked is stupid, simply because you don't run naked in cyrodil.
Because balance is not about naked people but about builds and mix max, including strengh and weakness of classes, you take the meta builds to compare.
And reality is about the tooltips, because tooltips are mitigated the same way (expect for major evasion). Even when taking to account major evasion, no spammable and match jabs.
Sorry this is reality.
I didn't judge the player, I judged what I saw on the video. It's bad moove and bad choices from the player making that clip increadibly stupid. Surprise : landing a melee ability without speed on a retreating player with major expedition doesn't work, bad choice to complain about jabs.
Also, these 800*4 = 3600 equaling stamblade is damage with very bad set up (2.3k spell damage, 28k magicka without eledrain) a good and realistic build have 34.5k magicka and 3k spell damage. So with a proper build it translate into high damage.
PvE isn't PvP also.
Jabs isn't used because the buff it receive work half the time, which is a problem.
The goal here is to say that jabs with real 1s duration deal extremely high damage and should have a damage reduction once the ability is fixed.
Sure let me stack 100 points into Thaumathurge and 0 into master at arms, and see how stupidly harder my jabs will hit compared to dizzying swing.
About Cinbri, you are missing the point, again. The clip was a demonstration of how clunky jabs hitbox is aganist moving targets.
He was turning sideways to track his opponent movement, and thats why his jabs were missing.
Also good luck having a build that can keep up with a sprinting nightblade while channeling jabs, especially on magicka templar.
If you run around with 34k mag and 3 k spell damage in No CP, there is a good chance that you have poop sustain/glass cannony, beacuse no way in hell you get those stats with protective jewelry and decent mag recovery.
@ecru
I dont know what to tell you i pointed out what the topic is about, since we were getting off topic about how op jabs are apparentlY(there not).
You are right you can cancel the last bit of jabs animation with weaving/starting a new skill animation, and if you do jabs are noticably faster. I am not debating that.
I also didnt assert anything, again i was trying to point out what the topic is about, since we are getting derailed here.
0 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well this thread is getting a bit heated.
Let me clear some things up:
1.
@ecru
Puncturing Strikes: Reduced the channel time for this ability and its morphs from to 1 seconds from 1.1 seconds. Praise the sun for whole numbers!
This patch puncturing strikes channeled time together with the post global cooldown removal, lost .3 seconds of total cast time, thats a 23% overall dps increase, but as many have pointed it out in this thread(and this effects not just puncturing strikes), the post global cooldown still seems to be present, in the form of extra animation time.
2.
Comparing fully buffed tooltips is almost completely pointless, due to things like cp, different gear sets etc.
Puncturing strikes at base(no cp, gear, stats, food, anything) deals 277,8(lets call it 278) per jab, to the closest target.
Thats a total of 1112 damage over the duration of the 1 second channel.
After the 14% damage decrease this patch Uppercut deals 1030 base damage(the old value was 1191).
Not the 50% damage difference you are talking about.
Now of course , Burning light deals 437 damage with a 25% proc chance and on average should proc twice per sets of jabs
So on average, on a stationary target, a single set of jabs, with burning light procs, will outdps Uppercut.
But unlike puncturing strikes, Uppercut does its whole damage in a single hit, which is very important in PVP, since burst is king.
3.
Comparing puncturing strike to wardens Scorch or Necromancers Blastbones, is pointless.
Why? Beacuse those deal their full damage to all targets hit, both delayed "Power Moves", where puncturing strikes does its full damage to 1 single target, and far less damage to all other targets.
Also hitting multiple targets with jabs means that burning light procs are spread across those targets, hence your actual damage to the closest target is diminished.
4.
Puncturing Strikes damage is reduced by Major Evasion.
For the record, i think this is fair, beacuse the ability is undodgeable, but of course its conal nature and bad crosshair tracking means that enemies can actually get out of the cone and not be hit by any number of jabs.
Also its not 25% reduction, due to how different sources of defences stack in this game. IT would be 25% if the person running major evasion had no other source of damage mitigation(including the ever present battle spirit).
@Aedaryl
Cinbri plays on PC EU, on NON CP, ofc he has low max magicka, probably running a sustain oriented build(from what i remember from him when facing him in BGs).
The clip was there to demonstrate how jabs are missing a strafing target that was in the range of jabs( at least from Cinbris perspective), and not to showcase his skills as a templar(he is actually a really good player).
Judging someones build/skill from a 6 second youtube clip is incredibly stupid.
Overall i dont think that either Puncturing Sweeps or Biting Jabs are terrible abilities, but both suffer from a lot of issues, that often stem from server side positional desyncs, and not necessaraly tied to the skill itself.
Also for the record, i was 100% agansit the uppercut damage decrease, and still would like ZOS to revert it at least.
Also ive been getting a lot of macroslice moments with jabs since the new patch, mostly when i use jabs to finish off low health targets. Its quite annoying.
Another thing that needs to be said, since were comparing tooltips:
Magicka templars in endgame PVE still use elemental weapon as their main spammable, and stamina templars are sitting at the smack bottom of the dps pit(although thats not JUST beacuse of jabs).
TLDR:
Jabs arent overpowered in any way, if you get killed by someone jabbing you to death, you need to rethink your strategy, improve your gameplay etc.
But the skill also isnt a useless pile of garbage that does 0 damage.
Damage wise i like where the skill is, its the ease of with which people can stack defenses these day(and this effects everyone really), that can give of the wrong perception of this skill being low damage. Btw 800*4 is still 3600 which is what a lot stamblades suprise attacks hit for in no cp vs a tanky target.
Comparing base tooltip totaly naked is stupid, simply because you don't run naked in cyrodil.
Because balance is not about naked people but about builds and mix max, including strengh and weakness of classes, you take the meta builds to compare.
And reality is about the tooltips, because tooltips are mitigated the same way (expect for major evasion). Even when taking to account major evasion, no spammable and match jabs.
Sorry this is reality.
I didn't judge the player, I judged what I saw on the video. It's bad moove and bad choices from the player making that clip increadibly stupid. Surprise : landing a melee ability without speed on a retreating player with major expedition doesn't work, bad choice to complain about jabs.
Also, these 800*4 = 3600 equaling stamblade is damage with very bad set up (2.3k spell damage, 28k magicka without eledrain) a good and realistic build have 34.5k magicka and 3k spell damage. So with a proper build it translate into high damage.
PvE isn't PvP also.
Jabs isn't used because the buff it receive work half the time, which is a problem.
The goal here is to say that jabs with real 1s duration deal extremely high damage and should have a damage reduction once the ability is fixed.
Sure let me stack 100 points into Thaumathurge and 0 into master at arms, and see how stupidly harder my jabs will hit compared to dizzying swing.
About Cinbri, you are missing the point, again. The clip was a demonstration of how clunky jabs hitbox is aganist moving targets.
He was turning sideways to track his opponent movement, and thats why his jabs were missing.
Also good luck having a build that can keep up with a sprinting nightblade while channeling jabs, especially on magicka templar.
If you run around with 34k mag and 3 k spell damage in No CP, there is a good chance that you have poop sustain/glass cannony, beacuse no way in hell you get those stats with protective jewelry and decent mag recovery.
@ecru
I dont know what to tell you i pointed out what the topic is about, since we were getting off topic about how op jabs are apparentlY(there not).
You are right you can cancel the last bit of jabs animation with weaving/starting a new skill animation, and if you do jabs are noticably faster. I am not debating that.
I also didnt assert anything, again i was trying to point out what the topic is about, since we are getting derailed here.
The point to use meta build is to use what good player run with.
CP are put right for comparisons.
And you missed again about the clip. Melee abilities doesn't touch a nightblade with major expedition running away. This isn't a templar thing.
And now, templar have a good gapcloser that also stun and deal damage.
And no, 34k mag and 3k spell damage can be runned with good resists and decent sustain.0 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't have a target dummy to practice on so I'll just give you my perspective being on the receiving end; anyone who says jabs are on the level of shalks or DBOS is looney tunes.5 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OK, can the two agenda driven people who are for some reason arguing against having intended mechanics function correctly please stop distracting from the main point?
Your opinion whether or not Puncturing Strikes is OP is irrelevant. Not to mention comical coming from someone who mains a pet sorc. If you want to argue about this ability, make another thread and stop obfuscating my point, which is these animation times do not match the cast-times and make using them awkward, inconsistent, and frustrating.
We don't balance the game by "Hey, this class or this ability is OP, let's introduce a bug to it so that only people with high motor dexterity and good latency will be able to utilize it to its full potential!"
Edited by Joy_Division on June 10, 2019 1:08PM13 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭Somehow I got summoned in here...
Lets try to resolve some issues in here then:
There are many valid arguments in here, but not one of them is the whole truth and we need to observe this skill as a total and not only some parts in a vacuum.
Lets try to start with some PvE stuff. I agree, jabs damage tooltip is one of the biggests in the game for a spammable, but several issues kind of make up for it. First off stamplars are currently pretty much the worst dps class and that even by using more jabs than other classes use spammables. Stamplars currently abandoned all their other in class skills like power of the light (same ofr magplars with puryfying light), because the skills does not work. Due to that, stamplars can slot even more fighter guilds skill to get more weapon damage, but still parse so low.
Magplars do not even use jabs in PvE, also because the skill is a melee ability and therefore inferior to the always accesable skills like force pulse or ele weapon. Also due to the aoe nature, jabs would benefit from a lightning staff instead of a fire staff, which reduces total dps output, since a lightning staff would reduce light attack damage and other single target dots (vamps bane). We kind of can agree, that number wise the skill would be one of the strongest, but it is just inpractical to use in competitive raid environment for, also reduces other damage output or lacks own damage by choosing one specific staff (lightning or fire) on magplars and stamplars arent competitive anyway. Secondly the skill is affected by cps in a very unique way for a spammable, since it has direct damage and damage over time parts. I know, that people have to spec into both dot and direct damage anyway, still it is one of jabs inconsistencies.
PvE was quite easy and we can agree, that templars would have a very strong spammable, if magplars would benefit more from a melee spammable and if stamplar would be competitive, which is sadly not the case. Magplars are used a lot, but never with jabs, since being flexible with ranged dps is more important in trials than just numbers.
PvP is quite another issue. First off the biggest problem with jabs and lag is, that above a latency of 120 jabs get very wonky to the point, where actually only the very first hit of jabs register, making the tooltip around 1/4 of its total damage (which is certainly much lower than every other spammable).
Another big problem is that jabs is a non-target skill with 4 hits over time. The first issue with this is, that non-target skills can miss due to latency from pc to server and server to pc. Enemy players in front of you may not even be not there anymore due to the latency and tehrefore non-target aoes tend to miss even on enemies directly in fron of you. The second issue is that it is over time and the same effect of latency makes hitting people with several of jabs hits very difficult, since maybe you can connect the first hit, but not the others due to latency and position issues again lowering its potential damage drastically.
All of the above are issues affecting jabs in the case of non-moving targets. Another big problem of jabs in PvP with moving targets is similar to what was described with flurry. Moving targets can get out of range to reduce the potential damage. Flurry at least is on a target, so the enemy can only avoid it by outranging it. Jabs suffers there more, since it depends on two sides to hit. First of enemies can move to avoid it and secondly the game does not aim for you as with flurry. For only that fact the higher damage tooltip is actually acceptable. The big difference of jabs to every other spammable is, that the others are direct damage target abilities, so they either hit for their full value or miss (when dodged for example). Jabs can miss the same as other spammables, but getting the full dmage out of it is by far not guaranted at all. There is kidn of spectrum of how much damage jabs does based on how many hits you can connect. And in a normal situation against a player you never really get all four hits, again making the higher tooltip valid, since being able to connect all hits should be rewarded by dealing more damage than other spammables, meanwhile the average damage and hits should be comparable to other spammables. The snare on its last hit is a very fragile argument and I personally wouldnt bring it up at all, since its bound to the last hit of jabs, which is the one which will most liekly miss. Snaring the enemy with jabs mostly only happens directly after stunnning an enemy.
Another huge impact is the channel nature, which does not allow block casting this skill. This results in a strict offensive or defensive stance on templars unlike other classes.
Then we get the issue with major evasion, which makes jabs hit for very low numbers. Jabs is pretty much the only aoe class spammable (semi-spammables are different naturally), which makes templars one of the classes, who suffer the most against evasion. Classes like wardens, dks and necroes have also lots of aoe damage with semi spammables, still their main spammable will be single target. Even in PvP most dps is done by light attacks and spammables, which is for templars countered by evasion. meanwhile other classes like nightblades and sorcs do not have to worry at all about evasion.
In conclusion you may say, that templars have the strongest spammable number wise. But the non-target aoe nature makes this numbers valid and not overpowered, giving templars a mini game, which rewards them for getting all hits out of jabs. Especially in PvP this skill os one of the most plagued skills by lag issues, its non-target aoe nature and mitigation wise. This skill is by far not overpowered, since its use is restricted or overshadowed by general class performance in PvE and target of too many issues to be effective in PvP. Good players naturally can make this skill look very strong, because they get rewarded by it. But even then many stamplars in PvP even dropped this skill for skills like heroic slash. Whoever thinks jabs is borderline strong or overpowered, does not consider the many issues this skill has or is not aware of the many counters it has.Edited by Checkmath on June 10, 2019 11:22AM10 -
Warganic✭I make stamplars for this vary reason, all of the casts feel clunky on magplar.PC:
Warganic - Redgaurd Stamplar DC
PS4:
Warganic - RedgaurdStamplar DC
Killmonger II - Redgaurd Stamden DC
Chim Sa Choy - Argonian Magden EP0 -
Altyrann✭✭✭✭✭Back to the original post from @Joy_Division ...
If the game is registering the beginning and end of the channel 1s apart, can this be fixed simply by cutting/replacing the animation to just under 1 second to allow weaving at 1 cast + LA per second.0
This discussion has been closed.