I die like paperplane on DK. Halp!!

ShadowDisciple

Ok so i lvled up a dk and equipped him with Shacklebreaker + Spriggan + bloodspawn..

I die in seconds. shackle is heavy set...so around 25k ress..also all impen...and i get murdered..Build is 1handShield + sh. all passives are bought,

i play BG's on my stamblade that is in full pve build briarheart+hunding+velidreth dualwield and bow...all divines...and i survive easier than on my DK..

is there anything im missing here??

i used green dragon blood, forward momentum and vigor on my dk to heal...and on my stamblade only vigor....i dont understand wth is wrong xD Not to mention on my stamblade i burst people in seconds

Tonnopesce

Everyone focus on dk's nowdays to make them pay for years of reflect spells, equip s&b and use the shield reflect ulti to increase the bill.

No more serious...
You miss a disengage tool like NB have, focus a little more on mobility, use medium armor instead of heavy.
Right now you cannot get the med armor passives to increase penetration and damage.
You cannot tank very well even , because you don't have a proper tank set.
Your setup is like a middleground between tank and damage and is not really good honestly
Post your superstar page.

tunepunk

I have the same feeling. My pvp DK is weak as hell, even with good gear. ... but then again.. i really suck at blocking, and not sure what is the most effective heal.

Freakin_Hytte

Stamdks aren't the easiest class to play and to be good you just have to play it a lot, especially if you main a mobile nb since dks aren't mobile at all. A tip is to make the mobile classes come down to your level of mobility always hitting them with snares and stuns. If you want to run heavy you can try fury or seventh to get the most out of heavy as dk.
But if you only play bgs you can try medium medium and if you feel to squishy you can always throw on protective trait on 2 of your jewelry.

Maulkin

Fly like paper, get high like planes.
Catch me near Bleakers, got achievements in my name
If you come around here, I pack'em all day
Running round a rock, make you think I lost my way

InvictusApollo

Maulkin wrote: »

Fly like paper, get high like planes.
Catch me near Bleakers, got achievements in my name
If you come around here, I pack'em all day
Running round a rock, make you think I lost my way

Now ask Malukah to sing it.

BNOC

Maulkin wrote: »

Fly like paper, get high like planes.
Catch me near Bleakers, got achievements in my name
If you come around here, I pack'em all day
Running round a rock, make you think I lost my way

All I wanna do is flap flap flap flap and a ping, and take your hp

Cortimi

Welcome to the new Magsorc meta. The kids finally got their way, the only class that ever stood a chance against them is now pretty much defenseless.

Here is the thing, there are a few tropes on this forum. There is a MASSIVE mag-ranged (sorc and NB) population on the forums, and brother, they are VOCAL. Everyone "knows" how OP magsorc and magNB are, especially the people that play them. BUT, this is a BIG but, there have always been ways to beat them. It is almost like the game was originally designed to have checks and balances... Anyways, it took a LOT of skill and a few "crutch" abilities (like Wings) to handle these classes. So a few things always happened:

Someone who isn't experienced at fighting "to the meta" encounters these OP classes, gets decimated, runs to forums, cries "nerf sorc!"

The Sorc Defense Brigade comes out in FORCE to protect their precious class, that they know full well is completely overpowered. BUT, they will always highlight the special counter-play scenarios as an excuse for how they are "perfectly balanced as all things should be".

So who is right? Well, neither really. And both. But mag-ranged is more vocal and visible, so they by default usually won the internet fights.

So the conclusion became, if you are being beat by ranged, you OBVIOUSLY have "lrn2ply" issues and need to "git gud".

However, they second anyone employed an anti-ranged counterplay and won, it was a case of "unhealthy gameplay that completely shuts down ranged styles" and OBVIOUSLY needed a nerf.

Mag-ranged simply could not fathom the concept of altering their play style, even though post after post after post explained AT LENGTH how to get around Wings, and how to circumvent anti-ranged tactics in general.

But they absolutely refused to believe that THEY needed to get better. Why? Because they know their class is ridiculously OP and "should" be winning, even with using the same three buttons for every fight.


So ranged got their way, and now here we are. Us melee guys got to adapt.

TL;DR - If ranged classes won, they expected the loser to "git gud", however if they lost then obviously the other guy needed a nerf.

Things to keep in mind going forward:

StamDK is a DoT based class.
DoTs got nerfed in short fights (which is what most PvP is)
DK got their ranged defenses heavily reduced (so you can't make it a long fight)

Conclusion:
You simply do not have the TIME to wait around for your DoTs to do their job now, as you do not have the defenses available to survive and MAKE the time. You either have to deal with it, or roll a different class. At this point, DK feels bout as useless as Stamplar in BGs.

BNOC

Cortimi wrote: »

However, they second anyone employed an anti-ranged counterplay and won, it was a case of "unhealthy gameplay that completely shuts down ranged styles" and OBVIOUSLY needed a nerf.

Only DK's called an instant cast ability that mitigated and then reflected damage back at their attackers when you weren't close enough "counterplay" - One ability completely shut down ranged builds or forced them into a position where they simply had no chance to kill you because the damage on things like force pulse etc is soggy af and you can cast wings quicker than anyone can cast 4 abilities.

Cortimi wrote: »

Mag-ranged simply could not fathom the concept of altering their play style, even though post after post after post explained AT LENGTH how to get around Wings, and how to circumvent anti-ranged tactics in general.

How the tables turn haha.

You're talking about 1 basically 100% uptime ability shutting down a tonne of ranged skills, across all class, skill and weapon trees; not even shutting them down actually, but, reflecting them back, with increased damage, effortlessly.

I used to be able to mitigate ranged damage on my Templar too by pressing one ability as ranged abilities landed, they took that away because it was too powerful and it wasn't even reflecting damage back, just deleting it. I'll tell you now because I done it for a long time, that *** was real OP - If I was reflecting it back empowered, shiii, I'd of had a million more kills.

So now it's DK's who can't fathom the concept of altering their play style - Stop engaging out in the open if your 50% mitigation isn't enough, kite like a templar into spaces that suit you and so on. Or just stick to your idea of all range classes running force pulse and soul assault like Grade A Auridon freshies and keep talking about it until you're exhausted.

Cortimi wrote: »

But they absolutely refused to believe that THEY needed to get better. Why? Because they know their class is ridiculously OP and "should" be winning, even with using the same three buttons for every fight.

You're talking about shutting down ranged builds with 1 button and are over exaggerating that they only have to use 3? Rofl.

SkysOutThizeOut

@BNOC I agree. I stopped playing with wings nearly 3 months before the patch to get ready. The only ranged I take issue with are the pet sorcs; all the los, consistent pet damage, stacked with maw of infernal is stupid... all they gotta do is kite and light attack.

MentalxHammer

Swap out green dragon blood for cauterize, this is the morph of the skill inferno. They just made it so that the heal scales with your stam even though its a mag skill, will help with your heals.

Cortimi

BNOC wrote: »

Only DK's called an instant cast ability that mitigated and then reflected damage back at their attackers when you weren't close enough "counterplay" - One ability completely shut down ranged builds or forced them into a position where they simply had no chance to kill you because the damage on things like force pulse etc is soggy af and you can cast wings quicker than anyone can cast 4 abilities.

I will again point out, that this is ENTIRELY a learn to play issue. Wings reflected PROJECTILES, not "all things ranged". For the record, I will reiterate the list of things that you COULD use, instead of spamming Shards, Clench, and Snipe:

Any DoT
Any AOE
Furse Pulse
Poison Injection
Concealed Weapon
Haunting Curse
Mage's Wrath
Blockade of Elements
Warden Birds
Warden Bugs
Pets
Surprise Attack
Rune Cage
Any melee ability
Shock Staff heavy attacks
Jabs
Shards
Entropy
Any Ulti
Power of the Light
Flurry
Bleeds
.....

Really, honestly, you can't find even a couple things out of that to use to win? Completely impossible to be killed by anything in that list right?

BNOC wrote: »

Only DK's called an instant cast ability that mitigated and then reflected damage back at their attackers when you weren't close enough "counterplay" - One ability completely shut down ranged builds or forced them into a position where they simply had no chance to kill you because the damage on things like force pulse etc is soggy af and you can cast wings quicker than anyone can cast 4 abilities.

Incorrect. This did NOT "shut down ranged builds" it shut down builds centered around easy mode distance stuns and max-range spamming of one or two skills. It forced a build to be able to use more than three buttons.

BNOC wrote: »

How the tables turn haha.

You're talking about 1 basically 100% uptime ability shutting down a tonne of ranged skills, across all class, skill and weapon trees; not even shutting them down actually, but, reflecting them back, with increased damage, effortlessly.

Again, you are just wrong and display a fundamental lack of knowledge of the game mechanics. Wings did NOT "increased damage". It rolled it back to you, with all mitigation procced.

Let's break down these "tonne" of skills that are reflectable:
Templar:
Flare
Spear
Little Balls of DoT that no one uses (I think, no one uses it, so the point it moot)

Warden:
-Nothing- (So much for "all classes")

DK:
Stonefist
Inferno Balls?

NB:
Cripple
Swallow Soul
Scourge

Sorc:
Frags

"Skill trees":

I have no idea what you are trying to talk about here, so I will just confidently say that you are wrong, again, because there are no "skill trees" outside of weapon trees that are reflectable.

Weapon Trees:
Snipe
Clench


Now look at that list. There are exactly TWO weapon skills that are reflectable. As far as classes go, only two classes actually use a reflectable skill as a source of damage. If you are a Sorc, you have ONE class skill "shut down".

Again, if you cannot find an alternate means of killing something with the entirety of the rest of your class attacks at your disposal, YOU are the problem.

If you play DK, Wings are a non-issue.

If you play a Warden, Wings are a non-issue.

If you play a NB, Wings are certainly an issue and YOUR skills (such as Cripple) need changed.

If you play a Temp, Wings are rarely an issue.

BNOC wrote: »

So now it's DK's who can't fathom the concept of altering their play style - Stop engaging out in the open if your 50% mitigation isn't enough, kite like a templar into spaces that suit you and so on. Or just stick to your idea of all range classes running force pulse and soul assault like Grade A Auridon freshies and keep talking about it until you're exhausted.

So there it is, the real answer: "just stay out of the open and hide in the corner". Ladies and Gentlemen, here is the "Logic of Balance According to Mag-Ranged": stay in the keep, or else your ass in mine. Balance.

Quick question too: how exactly is a stam based, melee character supposed to "kite like a Templar"......against a ranged class? The idiocy of this statement is just so profound I cannot even address it.

Asmael

Use Nord and protective jewelry for better mitigation.

use Lingering HP potions with Major vitality.

Keep Rally/Forward momentum up and never run around without your armor buff.

Use Spell Wall on SnB when focused down.

Drop Spriggan and favor a weapon damage set - penetration doesn't help your healing, and stam DKs can't afford to drop weapon damage without losing a lot of healing power.

(BGs only) Alessian Order is a very strong set for no CP and can allow you to passively get 2k-2k6 HP recovery depending on buffs with no other investment than gold food.

If really needed, use Cauterize.

And most importantly...

You are in BGs. In a no CP environment, everyone becomes a lot squishier, so play as a team, use Vigor to keep your teammates alive and move as a group.

BNOC

Cortimi wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Only DK's called an instant cast ability that mitigated and then reflected damage back at their attackers when you weren't close enough "counterplay" - One ability completely shut down ranged builds or forced them into a position where they simply had no chance to kill you because the damage on things like force pulse etc is soggy af and you can cast wings quicker than anyone can cast 4 abilities.

I will again point out, that this is ENTIRELY a learn to play issue. Wings reflected PROJECTILES, not "all things ranged". For the record, I will reiterate the list of things that you COULD use, instead of spamming Shards, Clench, and Snipe:

Any DoT
Any AOE
Furse Pulse
Poison Injection
Concealed Weapon
Haunting Curse
Mage's Wrath
Blockade of Elements
Warden Birds
Warden Bugs
Pets
Surprise Attack
Rune Cage
Any melee ability
Shock Staff heavy attacks
Jabs
Shards
Entropy
Any Ulti
Power of the Light
Flurry
Bleeds
.....

Really, honestly, you can't find even a couple things out of that to use to win? Completely impossible to be killed by anything in that list right?

BNOC wrote: »

Only DK's called an instant cast ability that mitigated and then reflected damage back at their attackers when you weren't close enough "counterplay" - One ability completely shut down ranged builds or forced them into a position where they simply had no chance to kill you because the damage on things like force pulse etc is soggy af and you can cast wings quicker than anyone can cast 4 abilities.

Incorrect. This did NOT "shut down ranged builds" it shut down builds centered around easy mode distance stuns and max-range spamming of one or two skills. It forced a build to be able to use more than three buttons.

BNOC wrote: »

How the tables turn haha.

You're talking about 1 basically 100% uptime ability shutting down a tonne of ranged skills, across all class, skill and weapon trees; not even shutting them down actually, but, reflecting them back, with increased damage, effortlessly.

Again, you are just wrong and display a fundamental lack of knowledge of the game mechanics. Wings did NOT "increased damage". It rolled it back to you, with all mitigation procced.

Let's break down these "tonne" of skills that are reflectable:
Templar:
Flare
Spear
Little Balls of DoT that no one uses (I think, no one uses it, so the point it moot)

Warden:
-Nothing- (So much for "all classes")

DK:
Stonefist
Inferno Balls?

NB:
Cripple
Swallow Soul
Scourge

Sorc:
Frags

"Skill trees":

I have no idea what you are trying to talk about here, so I will just confidently say that you are wrong, again, because there are no "skill trees" outside of weapon trees that are reflectable.

Weapon Trees:
Snipe
Clench


Now look at that list. There are exactly TWO weapon skills that are reflectable. As far as classes go, only two classes actually use a reflectable skill as a source of damage. If you are a Sorc, you have ONE class skill "shut down".

Again, if you cannot find an alternate means of killing something with the entirety of the rest of your class attacks at your disposal, YOU are the problem.

If you play DK, Wings are a non-issue.

If you play a Warden, Wings are a non-issue.

If you play a NB, Wings are certainly an issue and YOUR skills (such as Cripple) need changed.

If you play a Temp, Wings are rarely an issue.

BNOC wrote: »

So now it's DK's who can't fathom the concept of altering their play style - Stop engaging out in the open if your 50% mitigation isn't enough, kite like a templar into spaces that suit you and so on. Or just stick to your idea of all range classes running force pulse and soul assault like Grade A Auridon freshies and keep talking about it until you're exhausted.

So there it is, the real answer: "just stay out of the open and hide in the corner". Ladies and Gentlemen, here is the "Logic of Balance According to Mag-Ranged": stay in the keep, or else your ass in mine. Balance.

Quick question too: how exactly is a stam based, melee character supposed to "kite like a Templar"......against a ranged class? The idiocy of this statement is just so profound I cannot even address it.

Yes if you're half decent then it's completely impossible to be killed by anything from that list without it flowing properly with LA's and the full whack.

You know, I responded to everything on this post but then I realised a better direction so we can get straight to the point.

According to your above post which is effectively "wings weren't OP" - If wings weren't OP and didn't really reflect much, why were you using it?
Why was it nerfed?
Is 50% mitigation not enough? And if it's not, why not?

To address your question: Try moving..? Let's say I'm on a melee range Templar and there's X dudes coming at me shooting projectiles, I'll Los them on a tree, a wall or whatever and make them reevaluate their position, I won't go stand out in the open and try fight one whilst the other are freely farcasting me, because that would be unbelievably dumb and I would expect to die.
I'll funnel them through a doorway or any gap that forces them to group and then unload a damage dump.

You know it's not only ranged classes that can kite, the fact you don't think you're capable of simple los and instead just want to run into a wall of magic and arrows is your issue

juhislihis19

BNOC wrote: »

Cortimi wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Only DK's called an instant cast ability that mitigated and then reflected damage back at their attackers when you weren't close enough "counterplay" - One ability completely shut down ranged builds or forced them into a position where they simply had no chance to kill you because the damage on things like force pulse etc is soggy af and you can cast wings quicker than anyone can cast 4 abilities.

I will again point out, that this is ENTIRELY a learn to play issue. Wings reflected PROJECTILES, not "all things ranged". For the record, I will reiterate the list of things that you COULD use, instead of spamming Shards, Clench, and Snipe:

Any DoT
Any AOE
Furse Pulse
Poison Injection
Concealed Weapon
Haunting Curse
Mage's Wrath
Blockade of Elements
Warden Birds
Warden Bugs
Pets
Surprise Attack
Rune Cage
Any melee ability
Shock Staff heavy attacks
Jabs
Shards
Entropy
Any Ulti
Power of the Light
Flurry
Bleeds
.....

Really, honestly, you can't find even a couple things out of that to use to win? Completely impossible to be killed by anything in that list right?

BNOC wrote: »

Only DK's called an instant cast ability that mitigated and then reflected damage back at their attackers when you weren't close enough "counterplay" - One ability completely shut down ranged builds or forced them into a position where they simply had no chance to kill you because the damage on things like force pulse etc is soggy af and you can cast wings quicker than anyone can cast 4 abilities.

Incorrect. This did NOT "shut down ranged builds" it shut down builds centered around easy mode distance stuns and max-range spamming of one or two skills. It forced a build to be able to use more than three buttons.

BNOC wrote: »

How the tables turn haha.

You're talking about 1 basically 100% uptime ability shutting down a tonne of ranged skills, across all class, skill and weapon trees; not even shutting them down actually, but, reflecting them back, with increased damage, effortlessly.

Again, you are just wrong and display a fundamental lack of knowledge of the game mechanics. Wings did NOT "increased damage". It rolled it back to you, with all mitigation procced.

Let's break down these "tonne" of skills that are reflectable:
Templar:
Flare
Spear
Little Balls of DoT that no one uses (I think, no one uses it, so the point it moot)

Warden:
-Nothing- (So much for "all classes")

DK:
Stonefist
Inferno Balls?

NB:
Cripple
Swallow Soul
Scourge

Sorc:
Frags

"Skill trees":

I have no idea what you are trying to talk about here, so I will just confidently say that you are wrong, again, because there are no "skill trees" outside of weapon trees that are reflectable.

Weapon Trees:
Snipe
Clench


Now look at that list. There are exactly TWO weapon skills that are reflectable. As far as classes go, only two classes actually use a reflectable skill as a source of damage. If you are a Sorc, you have ONE class skill "shut down".

Again, if you cannot find an alternate means of killing something with the entirety of the rest of your class attacks at your disposal, YOU are the problem.

If you play DK, Wings are a non-issue.

If you play a Warden, Wings are a non-issue.

If you play a NB, Wings are certainly an issue and YOUR skills (such as Cripple) need changed.

If you play a Temp, Wings are rarely an issue.

BNOC wrote: »

So now it's DK's who can't fathom the concept of altering their play style - Stop engaging out in the open if your 50% mitigation isn't enough, kite like a templar into spaces that suit you and so on. Or just stick to your idea of all range classes running force pulse and soul assault like Grade A Auridon freshies and keep talking about it until you're exhausted.

So there it is, the real answer: "just stay out of the open and hide in the corner". Ladies and Gentlemen, here is the "Logic of Balance According to Mag-Ranged": stay in the keep, or else your ass in mine. Balance.

Quick question too: how exactly is a stam based, melee character supposed to "kite like a Templar"......against a ranged class? The idiocy of this statement is just so profound I cannot even address it.

According to your above post which is effectively "wings weren't OP" - If wings weren't OP and didn't really reflect much, why were you using it?
Why was it nerfed?
Is 50% mitigation not enough? And if it's not, why not?

1) I, and probably many others , used it to fight/protect from Snipe and Frags spammers. That's it. You don't need to have skills as "OP" to use them. Why isn't Cloak being nerfed? Every NB uses it, so it must be OP?

2) Because of the forum crybabies (Sorcs and Snipers likely). Exactly the kind of people Cortimi mentioned on his first post. Still, the nerf seemed unwarranted as I remember the outrage concerning Wings wasn't all that, so it was surprising. ZOS however doesn't need reasons to nerf/buffs things.

3) If it ain't broke, why fix it? 50% seems like an okay, but in reality it's a huge drop from original Wings. What was wrong with the old Wings? Magblades couldn't get any damage through? Seems like a class design issue 100%. Shuts down playing style? Cortimi already shut down this claim.

BNOC

juhislihis19 wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Cortimi wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Only DK's called an instant cast ability that mitigated and then reflected damage back at their attackers when you weren't close enough "counterplay" - One ability completely shut down ranged builds or forced them into a position where they simply had no chance to kill you because the damage on things like force pulse etc is soggy af and you can cast wings quicker than anyone can cast 4 abilities.

I will again point out, that this is ENTIRELY a learn to play issue. Wings reflected PROJECTILES, not "all things ranged". For the record, I will reiterate the list of things that you COULD use, instead of spamming Shards, Clench, and Snipe:

Any DoT
Any AOE
Furse Pulse
Poison Injection
Concealed Weapon
Haunting Curse
Mage's Wrath
Blockade of Elements
Warden Birds
Warden Bugs
Pets
Surprise Attack
Rune Cage
Any melee ability
Shock Staff heavy attacks
Jabs
Shards
Entropy
Any Ulti
Power of the Light
Flurry
Bleeds
.....

Really, honestly, you can't find even a couple things out of that to use to win? Completely impossible to be killed by anything in that list right?

BNOC wrote: »

Only DK's called an instant cast ability that mitigated and then reflected damage back at their attackers when you weren't close enough "counterplay" - One ability completely shut down ranged builds or forced them into a position where they simply had no chance to kill you because the damage on things like force pulse etc is soggy af and you can cast wings quicker than anyone can cast 4 abilities.

Incorrect. This did NOT "shut down ranged builds" it shut down builds centered around easy mode distance stuns and max-range spamming of one or two skills. It forced a build to be able to use more than three buttons.

BNOC wrote: »

How the tables turn haha.

You're talking about 1 basically 100% uptime ability shutting down a tonne of ranged skills, across all class, skill and weapon trees; not even shutting them down actually, but, reflecting them back, with increased damage, effortlessly.

Again, you are just wrong and display a fundamental lack of knowledge of the game mechanics. Wings did NOT "increased damage". It rolled it back to you, with all mitigation procced.

Let's break down these "tonne" of skills that are reflectable:
Templar:
Flare
Spear
Little Balls of DoT that no one uses (I think, no one uses it, so the point it moot)

Warden:
-Nothing- (So much for "all classes")

DK:
Stonefist
Inferno Balls?

NB:
Cripple
Swallow Soul
Scourge

Sorc:
Frags

"Skill trees":

I have no idea what you are trying to talk about here, so I will just confidently say that you are wrong, again, because there are no "skill trees" outside of weapon trees that are reflectable.

Weapon Trees:
Snipe
Clench


Now look at that list. There are exactly TWO weapon skills that are reflectable. As far as classes go, only two classes actually use a reflectable skill as a source of damage. If you are a Sorc, you have ONE class skill "shut down".

Again, if you cannot find an alternate means of killing something with the entirety of the rest of your class attacks at your disposal, YOU are the problem.

If you play DK, Wings are a non-issue.

If you play a Warden, Wings are a non-issue.

If you play a NB, Wings are certainly an issue and YOUR skills (such as Cripple) need changed.

If you play a Temp, Wings are rarely an issue.

BNOC wrote: »

So now it's DK's who can't fathom the concept of altering their play style - Stop engaging out in the open if your 50% mitigation isn't enough, kite like a templar into spaces that suit you and so on. Or just stick to your idea of all range classes running force pulse and soul assault like Grade A Auridon freshies and keep talking about it until you're exhausted.

So there it is, the real answer: "just stay out of the open and hide in the corner". Ladies and Gentlemen, here is the "Logic of Balance According to Mag-Ranged": stay in the keep, or else your ass in mine. Balance.

Quick question too: how exactly is a stam based, melee character supposed to "kite like a Templar"......against a ranged class? The idiocy of this statement is just so profound I cannot even address it.

According to your above post which is effectively "wings weren't OP" - If wings weren't OP and didn't really reflect much, why were you using it?
Why was it nerfed?
Is 50% mitigation not enough? And if it's not, why not?

1) I, and probably many others , used it to fight/protect from Snipe and Frags spammers. That's it. You don't need to have skills as "OP" to use them. Why isn't Cloak being nerfed? Every NB uses it, so it must be OP?

2) Because of the forum crybabies (Sorcs and Snipers likely). Exactly the kind of people Cortimi mentioned on his first post. Still, the nerf seemed unwarranted as I remember the outrage concerning Wings wasn't all that, so it was surprising. ZOS however doesn't need reasons to nerf/buffs things.

3) If it ain't broke, why fix it? 50% seems like an okay, but in reality it's a huge drop from original Wings. What was wrong with the old Wings? Magblades couldn't get any damage through? Seems like a class design issue 100%. Shuts down playing style? Cortimi already shut down this claim.

1. Oh, that's all it was for, frags and snipe? Who spams frags? Everyone has to deal with snipe spamming noobs, we know that skill is stupid. But you have the same LOS, roll and block options we all do or you can just eat half the damage everyone else does .
There's nothing but complaints about cloak, patch after patch so I have no idea, I never said wings was the only OP ability.

2. If the forums didn't exist, this game would be truly ***.

3. The old wings was 100% reduction on what it reflected, reflected damage back at you and took 0 skill to use, hence the reason every Tyro DK in game used it.

No staff or projectile user could get their full burst through, not just magblades, I'd consider that shutting down ranged play as apparently most people and more importantly, ZOS did.

No he didn't shut it down, he listed a bunch of skills that aren't reflected (that would never kill someone) and some that are reflected - Show me the video of either of you dying to a player using the filtered abilities and not their full burst and I'll tell you you're bad.

This is precisely why I asked the questions that you've answered: you've said you only had wings for snipe/frag spammers (if that's a thing), well now you get 50% reduction on both instead of 100% so what's the big deal? You take 50% damage from the frags and snipe you're so scared of and I continue to take 100%, like most people.

The problem is, you weren't being entirely truthful about what you all crutched on wings for but hey ***, you have 50% mitigation at the expense of having to do your own damage. Learn to adapt like we all have.

Cortimi

BNOC wrote: »

1. Oh, that's all it was for, frags and snipe? Who spams frags? Everyone has to deal with snipe spamming noobs, we know that skill is stupid. But you have the same LOS, roll and block options we all do or you can just eat half the damage everyone else does .

Right, so now we have the same LOS, roll dodge, and block, just like everyone else. Too bad we don't have shields, cloaks, cleans, and absorbs.... oh yeah all the OTHER tools that EVERYONE ELSE HAS.

BNOC wrote: »

3. The old wings was 100% reduction on what it reflected, reflected damage back at you and took 0 skill to use, hence the reason every Tyro DK in game used it.

The old shields, and new shields are %100 damage reduction, spammable, take zero skill to use. You going to stop "crutching" on them any time soon? Honestly, if we took shields away from you, made them nothing more than a neat little Snare immunity, would you cry?

BNOC wrote: »

No he didn't shut it down, he listed a bunch of skills that aren't reflected (that would never kill someone) and some that are reflected - Show me the video of either of you dying to a player using the filtered abilities and not their full burst and I'll tell you you're bad.

Hey everyone, according to this guy, if you have ever been killed by Mage's Wrath, Warden Bugs/Bird, Haunting Curse or Force Pulse, you are bad.

Again, if you only have ONE "full burst" rotation and only have ONE way of killing another player, you are bad. Your build is bad. You should feel bad. Learn. To. Play.

BNOC wrote: »

This is precisely why I asked the questions that you've answered: you've said you only had wings for snipe/frag spammers (if that's a thing), well now you get 50% reduction on both instead of 100% so what's the big deal? You take 50% damage from the frags and snipe you're so scared of and I continue to take 100%, like most people.

The problem is, you weren't being entirely truthful about what you all crutched on wings for but hey ***, you have 50% mitigation at the expense of having to do your own damage. Learn to adapt like we all have.

You just walked into your own trap. You say you aren't a frag spammer, literally in the exact same post stating how you crutch it to get a "full burst". Which is it? You need it or you don't, because you change your mind like, a LOT. You also conveniently left out the most important thing Wings is used for: Clench. And everyone knows a Clench spamming doofus when they see one, and homie you are shining. And yeah, let's keep bringing up that "%50 mitigation". That sure is a big number, I wonder why literally ZERO range-spammers like you are complaining about it. It's almost like it....doesn't do a dang thing!

Again, if the Wings changes were in any way shape or form a buff, you magsorcs would be crying about it instead of being absolutely giddy about it.

CaliMade

Its funny because Magdk damage this patch is hilariously busted, and Me, personally, i would give it all back for wings. Dk just isn’t the same anymore and frankly isn’t fun to play anymore.

I dont play mag dk for a 15k whip, if i wanted a 15k proc i would play sorc. I think ZOS has lost touch of the original design for classes.

JumpmanLane

I take 9% damage not 50% lol on ALL PROJECTILES not 4. Thanks for the buff.

Bodies STILL getting dropped. Lol.

Ixilith

People pull in so many directions

- wings have not destroyed DK, it’s still strong, it’s still considered very meta. In both it’s stamina and magicka departments it’s still very strong.

- the devs haven’t lost anymore touch with classes then they did originally, the class is changing continously to keep builds changing and fresh. If things remained identical and nothing ever changed. Theory crafting, exploring and more would have died in this game.

- the concept behind magicka is that u nuke for a lot of damage. It’s the concept of being a mage and although Magdk does seem insanely strong there’s no reason the class can’t have high numbers

I feel people seem to fall into 3 categories

Those that play a class because it’s overpowered or easy,

Those that play a class because they love it

Those who want to be a underdog.

And this concept of “I don’t play a DK to hit hard if I wanted that I’d play sorc” does really chime with this idea of playing a “weaker” specc as some sort of proof of skill and this mentality of “ew I got nerfed terrible class” sways the other way with a desire of being overpowered.

Things will once again change again and some other part of DK will be considered busted. It’s the path of MMORPGs

ChunkyCat

StamDk doesn’t have a lot of healing. So your heavy armor just delays the loss but won’t stop its inevitable arrival.

MagDk in 5 light armor is tankier than a StamDk in 5 heavy, because ZoS.

Anti_Virus

Asmael wrote: »

Use Nord and protective jewelry for better mitigation.

use Lingering HP potions with Major vitality.

Keep Rally/Forward momentum up and never run around without your armor buff.

Use Spell Wall on SnB when focused down.

Drop Spriggan and favor a weapon damage set - penetration doesn't help your healing, and stam DKs can't afford to drop weapon damage without losing a lot of healing power.

(BGs only) Alessian Order is a very strong set for no CP and can allow you to passively get 2k-2k6 HP recovery depending on buffs with no other investment than gold food.

If really needed, use Cauterize.

And most importantly...

You are in BGs. In a no CP environment, everyone becomes a lot squishier, so play as a team, use Vigor to keep your teammates alive and move as a group.

Without spriggans good luck killing anybody.

I have 37k max stam and 4200 WD my Wrecking blow hit a stamplar for 2k crit, CRIT.

Theignson

My StamDK still does fine at least in open world.

Forward momentum isn't really a heal.

Get the fragmented shield morph and use it just before Vigor. It gives you 6 seconds of major mending (25% increase in healing done). This will boost your healing.

There is nothing wrong with the standard Seventh/Fury/Blood spawn build. You can generate high weapon damage but still be tanky.

TrinityBreaker

Maulkin wrote: »

Fly like paper, get high like planes.
Catch me near Bleakers, got achievements in my name
If you come around here, I pack'em all day
Running round a rock, make you think I lost my way

Straight fire📢🔥🔥

Ozazz

L2P LOLLLLLLLLLLLL

BlackMadara

Ozazz wrote: »

L2P LOLLLLLLLLLLLL

Obviously, which is why he is asking for help.

@ShadowDisciple You need to figure out a way to mitigate damage or increase your effective HP. Health and resistances are only part of the equation.

You probably perform better on your NB due to being used to that defensive playstyle. Most likely it involves you using dodge and cloak to avoid damage.

The sDK will use a different playstyle. One part of it is increased healing. Keep Volatile Armor up at all times to get 12% healing taken from the Draconic Power passives and your resistance buff. Use fragmented shield before using vigor to increase its healing by 25%. A sDK will need to keep vigor up more often than a NB. While a NB can easily reset the fight when damaged. A sDK cannot. That means you need to keep your HP up as much as possible, which involves a better Vigor usage. Green Dragon Blood is not an effective heal. Switch that out of Cauterize.

The second part of a sDK defensive playstyle is either block or dodge. If you are in heavy armor, blocking with SnB is most effective due to getting stamina back through constitution while hit. If you are dropped below a certain threshold, hold block, cast frag shield, and then vigor. You could also do the same with a dodge roll. I like to block cast frag shield, into a dodge roll canceled vigor. This works best in medium armor due to dodge cost reduction passives.

evoniee

go 7th legion or go out
obvious imbalance set that every meta chaser use

Arzharo

Ixilith wrote: »

People pull in so many directions


- the concept behind magicka is that u nuke for a lot of damage. It’s the concept of being a mage and although Magdk does seem insanely strong there’s no reason the class can’t have high numbers

Right now DK lacks everything - survivability AND damage.

Magicka classes are both tankier and deals an absurd amount of damage. If they can destroy my heavy armor DK in literally 1 sec if I don't use my ult or dodge at that exact moment, and still be 10 times tankier (I literally deal NO damage with my dots, HP bars doesnt even move), something's very imbalanced about the class. I have more than 5k weapon damage buffed in non cp on my DK and I am no threat to anyone unless you just hit level 50 and lacks any defensives whatsoever.

DKs are probably the worst of all stamina classes for PvP right now. My stamplar with funky ass ravager/bone pirate rolls does 10 times better than my gold dk in 7th legion/bloodspawn and either shacklebreaker (no damage so barely usable in non cp) or hundings with impen on everything.

DKs needs a huge buff.

CaliMade

Ixilith wrote: »

People pull in so many directions

- wings have not destroyed DK, it’s still strong, it’s still considered very meta. In both it’s stamina and magicka departments it’s still very strong.

- the devs haven’t lost anymore touch with classes then they did originally, the class is changing continously to keep builds changing and fresh. If things remained identical and nothing ever changed. Theory crafting, exploring and more would have died in this game.

- the concept behind magicka is that u nuke for a lot of damage. It’s the concept of being a mage and although Magdk does seem insanely strong there’s no reason the class can’t have high numbers

I feel people seem to fall into 3 categories

Those that play a class because it’s overpowered or easy,

Those that play a class because they love it

Those who want to be a underdog.

And this concept of “I don’t play a DK to hit hard if I wanted that I’d play sorc” does really chime with this idea of playing a “weaker” specc as some sort of proof of skill and this mentality of “ew I got nerfed terrible class” sways the other way with a desire of being overpowered.

Things will once again change again and some other part of DK will be considered busted. It’s the path of MMORPGs

Your taking my statement and turning it on its head to push a narrative, stop.

Mag dk has never been a Burst damage Class, they have always been “Tank, Sustain and wear you down with dots.” these Changes to molten whip makes them Hit really damn hard while the nerf to wings essentially makes them take 25% more damage. Why would i Use power lash over Molten whip? The Class isnt as resilient as they were with OG wings So im better of bursting my Opponent before they burst me. Essentially pushing this Sorc’ish playstyle that i didnt play magdk for, If i were to use Power lash then at that point, yes, with the nerfed wings i would be intentionally playing a weaker spec.


As for OP, try using Cauterize as a second heal, its really cheap, heals teammates and in my experience its stronger than GDB, given you have less than like 35k hp.

It also allows you to run Forward Momentum.

My Cauterize usually hits for around 9-10k in a crit, pair this with vigor and your heals are going to be A1.

Ecfigies

Try Orgnum Scales/Fury/Trollking 5/1/1 Med with Gold food 2h and Sword/Shield, it's very easy to get and its quite easy to play if you're not yet use to Cancel Animation, healing effectively and avoiding damage, if any trouble with sustain Bone Pirate, Battlefield Assault might work. It has around 3.5k ~ 4k Health Regen when below 60% health and 5k+ wd cuz of Fury, enough sustain and good resistance cuz Nord, you're not going to be carried by the setup but it's enough to make you comfortable while facing too much pressure. Also check on twitch PvP streamers (Scarr, Josh, Faso) they might help with any doubts, be aware of your skills as well. For Race Nord might be the best in this patch for Stam DK.

Not much to talk on Forum, the best idea it's finding any guild that are dedicated on PvP and duel some people there that are comfortable to help you learn, there's no better way. Good luck.

Davadin

Arzharo wrote: »

Ixilith wrote: »

People pull in so many directions


- the concept behind magicka is that u nuke for a lot of damage. It’s the concept of being a mage and although Magdk does seem insanely strong there’s no reason the class can’t have high numbers

Right now DK lacks everything - survivability AND damage.

Magicka classes are both tankier and deals an absurd amount of damage. If they can destroy my heavy armor DK in literally 1 sec if I don't use my ult or dodge at that exact moment, and still be 10 times tankier (I literally deal NO damage with my dots, HP bars doesnt even move), something's very imbalanced about the class. I have more than 5k weapon damage buffed in non cp on my DK and I am no threat to anyone unless you just hit level 50 and lacks any defensives whatsoever.

DKs are probably the worst of all stamina classes for PvP right now. My stamplar with funky ass ravager/bone pirate rolls does 10 times better than my gold dk in 7th legion/bloodspawn and either shacklebreaker (no damage so barely usable in non cp) or hundings with impen on everything.

DKs needs a huge buff.

yeah... agree disagree there.

i want DK to have some buff. MagDK got some, StamDK would love to have some.

but... does it need a huge buff? no.
Mag classes is tankier and destroys your gold build in literally 1 sec? no.
No damage to DoTs, HP bars doesn't even move?

Son, what class are you playing?

Do you even play CP? Have points in Thaumaturge?