IMMOBILIZATION IMMUNITY = Catastrophically Bad for PvP

Crom_CCCXVI

Depending on who you ask, they will probably tell you the thing they dislike most as far as their enemies go is one of 3 things-
1) Mega Zergs running rampant that rely on pure numbers
2) Run Away "Troll Builds" that spend their time streaking around rocks
3) 30K health healer ball bomb groups

and now in one fell swoop, ESO has made each of these things even more horrible. Immobilization has been the great equalizer, but not anymore

Need to defend a keep with smaller numbers against a zerg? Hold them in place, drop oils, you might have a chance! Now they will steam roll through and it will be a numbers game.
Not to mention, you don't even stop someone with ONE Immobilize. All these high recovery builds don't even break stride when you hit them with Frost Reach or a single talon, it takes 3 or 4 to even think about locking them in place long enough to do damage.

I wonder what the goal is here. It seems every few months another damage nerf comes out and we make it easier and easier for people to essentially just run around Cyrodil with their 30K resistance, 3500 recovery, stacking sheilds in groups of 20 each hitting you for 1000 damage -- and if you try to play high DPS it's just nerf after nerf after nerf.

Sometimes I wonder if all of ZOS isn't playing a sheild stacking Pet Sorc with Engine Guardian themselves?

khajiitNPC

Yeah. But so many people QQ because they didn’t spec more into stamina/stamina regen or if you’re in a cp enabled area into break free.

ChunkyCat

Not being perma rooted in BG makes it more fun.

Your argument is invalid.

kollege14a5

Op snares got nerfed everyone is happy but one guy in forum says it is catastrophically bad for pvp... Classic

KillsAllElves

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

Depending on who you ask, they will probably tell you the thing they dislike most as far as their enemies go is one of 3 things-
1) Mega Zergs running rampant that rely on pure numbers
2) Run Away "Troll Builds" that spend their time streaking around rocks
3) 30K health healer ball bomb groups

Eso pvp was marketed as large scale siege warfare, people who run large groups are playing the game as it was intended to play.

Not everyone should adjust their playstyle to fit your idea of how eso pvp should play.

I agree with number 2, streak mobility is too high, add high damage and shielding the class shows how lopsided pvp is.

I agree with number 3, no one should have over 25k health and have high resistances in cyrodiil, if you want to be a proto fake me out tank go tank a dungeon!

I have no problems with bomb groups, palyers need to not stack on a flag or be baited into an AP farm group. 1 walk away 2 use negates.



immobility immunization is not a catastrophe to pvp! This game should not have the amount of snares and stuns it has that effects players, that is just ridiculous. If players need to rely on stuns and snares they need to go play another game.

LordTareq

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

Depending on who you ask, they will probably tell you the thing they dislike most as far as their enemies go is one of 3 things-
1) Mega Zergs running rampant that rely on pure numbers
2) Run Away "Troll Builds" that spend their time streaking around rocks
3) 30K health healer ball bomb groups

and now in one fell swoop, ESO has made each of these things even more horrible. Immobilization has been the great equalizer, but not anymore

Need to defend a keep with smaller numbers against a zerg? Hold them in place, drop oils, you might have a chance! Now they will steam roll through and it will be a numbers game.
Not to mention, you don't even stop someone with ONE Immobilize. All these high recovery builds don't even break stride when you hit them with Frost Reach or a single talon, it takes 3 or 4 to even think about locking them in place long enough to do damage.

I wonder what the goal is here. It seems every few months another damage nerf comes out and we make it easier and easier for people to essentially just run around Cyrodil with their 30K resistance, 3500 recovery, stacking sheilds in groups of 20 each hitting you for 1000 damage -- and if you try to play high DPS it's just nerf after nerf after nerf.

Sometimes I wonder if all of ZOS isn't playing a sheild stacking Pet Sorc with Engine Guardian themselves?

Are you serious...

Kadoin

I wonder what mag wardens do now...Haven't seen any besides myself

khajiitNPC

@ChunkyCat it was frustrating to be “permarooted” but it wasn’t as bad as people make. Was definitely a L2p issue. That being said we still have people crying about mobility issues and this patch we are much more mobile. I find those who cry the most will still cry. Regardless of nerf or buff they still die.

Demra

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

Not everyone should adjust their playstyle to fit your idea of how eso pvp should play.

no one should have over 25k health and have high resistances in cyrodiil, if you want to be a proto fake me out tank go tank a dungeon!

lol ^^

Rikumaru

Yeah, no. The biggest abusers of snares were the zergs, there would literally be a few players who dedicated their time to locking you completely down and if you weren't magicka sorc or a stamina build you were outta luck.

I do agree on everyone being too tanky in Cyrodill, but hey what do you do when ZOS puts stuff like protective in the game and nerfs dodge roll immunity timers? Even I've switched from a super squishy build to a super tanky setup because it's the direction the devs are pushing in this game. Especially in no-CP with the food nerfs, a medium build is going to have about 20-21k HP which is far too low compared to what you can get out of heavy.

Anyron

Snare/roots are useless against zergs because of purge spammers. Also, player running with zerg is much less targeted by stuns so they have plenty of stamina for rolls

On other hand, solo magicka build's movement can be completely destroyed by root/snare spammers without any counterplay. Lack of stamina and how this game works (max stamina/magicka damage scaling) makes magbuilds hard to play in nonCP cyrodiil, where you have stam only for 1 roll and one CC break.Soft CC immunity skills are right step to make game better

Btw, softcc immunity skills harms more zergs than solo players because of how they play. Only in zergs you can run as dedicated rooter.

Qbiken

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Yeah. But so many people QQ because they didn’t spec more into stamina/stamina regen or if you’re in a cp enabled area into break free.

More like:

Snares and roots was (and still is) overperforming and needed adjustments. Unless you were a sorc or nightblade mobility was (and still is) garbage.

I still think snares need further adjustments, but it's a lot better now with root immunity.

mague

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

Depending on who you ask, they will probably tell you the thing they dislike most as far as their enemies go is one of 3 things-
1) Mega Zergs running rampant that rely on pure numbers
2) Run Away "Troll Builds" that spend their time streaking around rocks
3) 30K health healer ball bomb groups

and now in one fell swoop, ESO has made each of these things even more horrible. Immobilization has been the great equalizer, but not anymore

All true, but immobilization and any other cc is even worse design. Not matter what you design for PvP, the players will use it as exploit or adoption.

You can either roam solo with all the ups and downs or with an organized group that is build to be a group.

technohic

Those large groups and ball groups were never really that affected by the root spamming. Neither was #2. Really, it disproportionately effected magicka characters that DONT have streak or wings to get zerged down.

I feel your premise is wrong and also disagree with your perception of the results. I ran magplar in stead of stamplar and enjoyed it for the first time in a long time and didn't even go vamp. Why? Because I can move.

kokoandshinb14a_ESO

the truth is this

I know for 1 that I am perma ccd in pvp.

snared rooted stunned

the ice isnt working g at all

Zelos

The zergs will just use this to root their opposition in place while they bomb them. No good change can come from this except smaller numbers getting ran over by a zerg spamming immobilize.

Xsorus

They nerfed the Retreating Maneuver in one patch so that Ball groups couldn't constantly escape with it....

Next patch they nerfed Roots lol

technohic

Xsorus wrote: »

They nerfed the Retreating Maneuver in one patch so that Ball groups couldn't constantly escape with it....

Next patch they nerfed Roots lol

It was a rig job to get through for sure.

MaxJrFTW

Do you even play the game? CC immunity is the only thing giving solo and small scale players a chance.

Gilvoth

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Not being perma rooted in BG makes it more fun.

Your argument is invalid.

truth

Koensol

This thread still going? I barely post on these forums anymore but this thread changed my mind. Root and snares were/are a massive problem for smaller groups. Especially after the nerf to speed pots and immunity tools.

Mobility and speed are key to outplaying zergs. Cc, roots and snares are zergling tools. This thread is a joke tbh.

DarkGottbeard

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

Depending on who you ask, they will probably tell you the thing they dislike most as far as their enemies go is one of 3 things-
1) Mega Zergs running rampant that rely on pure numbers
2) Run Away "Troll Builds" that spend their time streaking around rocks
3) 30K health healer ball bomb groups

I wonder what the goal is here. It seems every few months another damage nerf comes out and we make it easier and easier for people to essentially just run around Cyrodil with their 30K resistance, 3500 recovery, stacking sheilds in groups of 20 each hitting you for 1000 damage -- and if you try to play high DPS it's just nerf after nerf after nerf.

Sometimes I wonder if all of ZOS isn't playing a sheild stacking Pet Sorc with Engine Guardian themselves?

Your premise is that the only way to kill people is to deny them the ability to move in order to force them to either have to suffer an outnumbered mobbing or fight inside oily fire. And even tho you can still hold people in place temporarily, you are upset that you lost the ability to permanently lock someone in place. I fundamentally disagree with your assessment. Having zos hold someone down for you while you kick them in the face is not the kind of competitive combat that makes pvp games great.


You also propose that damage is nerfed somehow. Damage is higher than its ever been. There is a reason almost every pvper is running very tanky damage dealers. A glass cannon build (even just low armor/health but full impen) gets insta-gibbed in pvp today. At one point in this game, damage was balanced around play skill and build resources. I.E. You either had to be highly skilled or build for a lot of damage. If you built super damage your tank and sustain was crap. Now they give mindless free damage from proc sets and dots. A very low skill player can be a very high damage threat, and a very tanky build player can also be a high damage threat (through sets like fury). This combined with power creep has made the damage in cyrodiil rise. If you want to stop seeing tanks acting like dps then you need to nerf damage. If a tank is low damage, no one will play it. If a full impen no hp no armor dps can live through skill and be rewarded for that risky choice then PEOPLE WILL COME BACK TO THE GAME TO PLAY IT.

tunepunk

I beg to differ. I started using daedric tomb more after this. They step on one mine, break free then step on the others. More damage faster... Love it.

Methariorn

For a good organized ball grp cc where never a big deal. for a 3-4 man grp you can finaly move and my magplar is not force to go vamp to just move away.

frostz417

Kadoin wrote: »

I wonder what mag wardens do now...Haven't seen any besides myself

I play a magwarden, but I’m not those obnoxious brain dead root builds. Just a straight solo&small scale build that isn’t crutched on ice staff with gripping. This patch is fantastic for me, I only struggled playing solo due to snares and root spams. Now that I have race against time and root immunity solo play is so much more fun. I’m happy🤷‍♂️. I’m absulutely happy all those builds are shafted.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

You want more of a tank meta? That’s how you get a tank meta.

When you can’t kite people and you’re not a tank build you die. This is basic balance. Squishy and maneuverable or slow and tanky. This has been a long standing thing for ages in many games.

If suddenly everyone is constantly immobilized more and more will just stack resists and use sword and board which is basically how it is now, so just imagine it even worse.

For years snares and immobilizations were too powerful and just now ZoS is trying to combat that. Whether or not it’s too late time will tell.

The only thing I wouldn’t actually mind is if heavier snares and immobilizations were reserved for siege weapons alone. Players keep their current snares and immobilization. ZoS has never seemed to be good at balancing siege. In my opinion siege should be very strong. Makes people think ahead about stacking and also having to think about taking siege out to actually win. Make them more tactical.

ErMurazor

Zelos wrote: »

The zergs will just use this to root their opposition in place while they bomb them. No good change can come from this except smaller numbers getting ran over by a zerg spamming immobilize.

LoL zergs arent that organised

Syhae

I'm confused, in the same thread I see that immobilization immunity is bad because it allows players more mobility, and also people complaining about builds specializing in mobility. Sounds like people just want what they're fighting to stand there and die like a good boy.

Miriel

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Do you even play the game? CC immunity is the only thing giving solo and small scale players a chance.

I sort of disagree, the most common scenario is this... 3-4 people, go to farm resources, 8-10 people come to clear them out, often just randoms, the small 3-4group runs into the tower, and abuse LoS mechanics and build ulti on their tank builds, then they ulti on command, rince and repeat...

The moment a better players come or a skill group they leave, i understand the need for being able to play the game, but one cancer dosent solve anouther cancer...

If these small groups actually stayed in the open and actually fought, but the constant tower cancer LoS game, needs to go somehow, it not "playing"

Minno

Most of the snare immunity haters here, probably don't want to slot a gap closer either lol

Insco851

Snare immunity on my mnb has completely turned the battle... zerglings better theorycraft a new spammable.