Battlegrounds are getting more and more frustrating.

Skysenzz

Sup, lemme give you my feelings about PvP as a BG player (Mid/High MMR) after few hundreds of games in battleground, on Stamina Dragonknight and Stamina Warden. I've tried a lot of different setups on those two classes, (maybe 20 in total?)
I will mostly talk about Deathmatch, since there's almost no competition in the other game mode.

Those are the worse issues about balance:
-ZOO Sorc everywhere, you almost can't hit them because they have their pets all around them, if you stun them somehow the matriarch go over them so you can't execute them for example (even with tab target, it's a pain). Not gonna talk about unkillable pets too.
-Heavy Nightblade that are unkillable and has really good damage (execute & spectral bow), if somehow you manage to get them to execute, they cloack away, even if I manage to find them with an aoe (Carve/Noxious breath) they can still escape really easily, even if I do it 4-5times.
-Heavy armor in general; everybody is tanky as hell, 25/30k+ HP, I mean... Seriously???
-Soul assault, it deals 17k damage on med armors for 100ultimate and you have no counter play??Blocking will just drain all your stamina if you're not sword and board and will still hit for 8k. If you don't have that (if there's an ice blockade and you're not a sorc you're ***).
-Solo heals/Shields that gives more than you can deal with executioner, ending up seeing some players staying alive for 6-7seconds with ~30% hp even if in 2v1. (also shields give them ressource back? gimme that *** on stam please)
-Medium armor just get destroyed if they're in the melee without dedicated healer/efficient group heal, even if you rolldodge, spin2win will destroy your ass.
-there are also classes that are much more impact and i'm pretty sure that have much better win rate than other classes, for example Warden with their permafrost, really cheap for what it does, they also have really good group heal if they want to do that, magsorc that can auto execute, which help them having lots of kills, they can also survive fairly easily if they're playing safely, resulting they will lose a bit of kills but still on the top average and almost no deaths. Nightblade have little to no impact in high mmr BG if they aren't tanky (except if they're godlike obv :^) ) they can get some kills etc but if the 3 teams are really packed it can get pretty hard for them.

Those are the worse issues about game system or whatever you wanna call it:
-Sometimes, your health jump from 50 to 0, you don't really know why, (The Sniker shows something similar on his latest video "Let's Talk about Elsweyr Patch and the Tank Meta" at 0:45)
-when someone has a stun, and apply it to you, you can't use pots or anything before the hit land (it happened a lot with PRE-Elsweyr patch with Incap, it still happen with skills like DK leap, sometimes your character will freeze himself before the DK even hit the ground), something similar with Fossilize and Cloack from nightblade, if I fossilize a nb at the same time as he cast cloack, the nightblade will be fossilized but he will still go invisible.

There are also some issues that i won't tile like MMR balance that give really unbalanced games and lags (players teleporting around ) but there's already a lot of discussion about that & those won't aknowledge them so what's the point talking about that?

Crunkanaut

OH I SEE

its a L2P issue

Iskiab

Hum? I agree with some points, but you’re also contradicting yourself.

How can you complain about a tank meta, while at the same time complain about spike damage from things like soul assault. Why do you think people are tanking up?

BuddyAces

Did you try resetting your router?

FangOfTheTwoMoons

Stacking Pets isn't skillful. Stacking CC isn't skillful. It's a crutch.

CompM4s

Yes! Another L2P thread 🙀

ChefZero

Deathmatch is the silliest game mode ever and should be never introduced to any MMORPG.

Urvoth

You aren’t high MMR if you’re still seeing NBs

Rolexdt

Yeh I dont know if there is a point in posting on forums because its not gonna change the game but I agree with most of what you said.

Very tough playing a stam dk without a dedicated heal bot following you.

Sp1dHQ

I agree on most points, but soul assault is an antinoob garbage ult. If you are getting constantly killed by it, I have doubt about your experience in “high MMR bg”. It is easily blocked, outhealed, interrupted by line of sight.

Waffennacht

1 MMr is account based, not character, so you can see any class at any mmr,
2 MMr is mostly representative of time playing

Conclusion: anyone with any class can eventually find themselves in the top mmr

Skysenzz

Sp1dHQ wrote: »

I agree on most points, but soul assault is an antinoob garbage ult. If you are getting constantly killed by it, I have doubt about your experience in “high MMR bg”. It is easily blocked, outhealed, interrupted by line of sight.

I mean.. When you're in a deathmatch in the middle of the map for example, with not many group support or anything, you're kinda ***, I have much less issue with it on stamden than stamdk with that skill, stamden can really be tanky and i have sword & board on it, which i don't on stamDK, blocking it will just destroy my stamina (assuming it's not the only source of damage) and i will be oom after that. On redguard all my sustain is from heavy attacks with two handed/hitting targets, i can't really be on a deffensive setup as i can be on stamden, which is orc and have lot of sustain, my dk's survivability is on rolldodging. There's some phase where i know that my mmr got lowered a bit and I see it once every 3-4 game, some phase i know that i'm in high mmr and I never see it, or really rare, but it does close to nothing.

Urvoth wrote: »

You aren’t high MMR if you’re still seeing NBs

There's some really good NBs that are hitting high mmr in deathmatch, because there's an huge skill gap between high & non high mmr bg, it jump from total chaos bg where nobody group to player that are all the time grouped with group support etc, those nb manage to stomp game with total chaos but will eventually reach high mmr & go down just after.

Waffennacht wrote: »

1 MMr is account based, not character, so you can see any class at any mmr,
2 MMr is mostly representative of time playing
Conclusion: anyone with any class can eventually find themselves in the top mmr

depends, when i started playing with my Stamden, i was getting really low quality games, everybody were weak as hell, no group heal or anything, where my stamdk was already in much more intense matches.

brandonv516

Waffennacht wrote: »

1 MMr is account based, not character, so you can see any class at any mmr,
2 MMr is mostly representative of time playing

Conclusion: anyone with any class can eventually find themselves in the top mmr

Did this change recently?

Because the last character I made and took into Battlegrounds took a few weeks to start seeing the names I see in high MMR.

LordTareq

Skysenzz wrote: »

Sup, lemme give you my feelings about PvP as a BG player (Mid/High MMR) after few hundreds of games in battleground, on Stamina Dragonknight and Stamina Warden. I've tried a lot of different setups on those two classes, (maybe 20 in total?)
I will mostly talk about Deathmatch, since there's almost no competition in the other game mode.

Those are the worse issues about balance:
-ZOO Sorc everywhere, you almost can't hit them because they have their pets all around them, if you stun them somehow the matriarch go over them so you can't execute them for example (even with tab target, it's a pain). Not gonna talk about unkillable pets too.
-Heavy Nightblade that are unkillable and has really good damage (execute & spectral bow), if somehow you manage to get them to execute, they cloack away, even if I manage to find them with an aoe (Carve/Noxious breath) they can still escape really easily, even if I do it 4-5times.
-Heavy armor in general; everybody is tanky as hell, 25/30k+ HP, I mean... Seriously???
-Soul assault, it deals 17k damage on med armors for 100ultimate and you have no counter play??Blocking will just drain all your stamina if you're not sword and board and will still hit for 8k. If you don't have that (if there's an ice blockade and you're not a sorc you're ***).
-Solo heals/Shields that gives more than you can deal with executioner, ending up seeing some players staying alive for 6-7seconds with ~30% hp even if in 2v1. (also shields give them ressource back? gimme that *** on stam please)
-Medium armor just get destroyed if they're in the melee without dedicated healer/efficient group heal, even if you rolldodge, spin2win will destroy your ass.
-there are also classes that are much more impact and i'm pretty sure that have much better win rate than other classes, for example Warden with their permafrost, really cheap for what it does, they also have really good group heal if they want to do that, magsorc that can auto execute, which help them having lots of kills, they can also survive fairly easily if they're playing safely, resulting they will lose a bit of kills but still on the top average and almost no deaths. Nightblade have little to no impact in high mmr BG if they aren't tanky (except if they're godlike obv :^) ) they can get some kills etc but if the 3 teams are really packed it can get pretty hard for them.

Those are the worse issues about game system or whatever you wanna call it:
-Sometimes, your health jump from 50 to 0, you don't really know why, (The Sniker shows something similar on his latest video "Let's Talk about Elsweyr Patch and the Tank Meta" at 0:45)
-when someone has a stun, and apply it to you, you can't use pots or anything before the hit land (it happened a lot with PRE-Elsweyr patch with Incap, it still happen with skills like DK leap, sometimes your character will freeze himself before the DK even hit the ground), something similar with Fossilize and Cloack from nightblade, if I fossilize a nb at the same time as he cast cloack, the nightblade will be fossilized but he will still go invisible.

There are also some issues that i won't tile like MMR balance that give really unbalanced games and lags (players teleporting around ) but there's already a lot of discussion about that & those won't aknowledge them so what's the point talking about that?

Good post, I agree with most of your points. Exception being your point on Soul Assault. This ultimate is needed to counter endless dodge rollers. You can counter it by blocking & using your heals, use terrain to break LOS or even use an invisibility potion after 2 seconds.
This brawler/tank meta is annoying. We really need some good anti-mitigation tools.

Not being able to use a potion just before getting CC'ed is super annoying btw, has led to my demise many times.

Sp1dHQ wrote: »

I agree on most points, but soul assault is an antinoob garbage ult. If you are getting constantly killed by it, I have doubt about your experience in “high MMR bg”. It is easily blocked, outhealed, interrupted by line of sight.

I wouldn't say that. What you say is correct when you use it from 20 meters away on someone with near full health. It does very high damage on medium armor, and if you use it aggressively and as a finisher it pretty much guarantees the kill even on pretty good players.

Mintaka5

Yeah well that will teach you. Heavily nerf our shields, we'll use pets as shields.

LordTareq

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Yeah well that will teach you. Heavily nerf our shields, we'll use pets as shields.

And after they nerf the pets, you can use other players as shields! The joy never ends.

jcm2606

Waffennacht wrote: »

1 MMr is account based, not character, so you can see any class at any mmr,
2 MMr is mostly representative of time playing

Conclusion: anyone with any class can eventually find themselves in the top mmr

MMR definitely isn't entirely account based, if it was, I wouldn't have been getting braindead matches on my stamblade when I first started my stamblade.

This is why more information about MMR needs to be released, sick of playing a guessing game to justify the bizarre way the Batleground match making system works.

Qbiken

Battlegrounds are just a mini version of Cyrodil these days:
AoE ball group tactics where you spam snares, roots and kite until your ultimate is up. Only difference between Cyrodil and Battlegrounds is that BG´s are usually filled with more cheesy procsets since they're alot more effective in no-cp

Add garbage performance on top of that and BG´s are just not enjoyable anymore....
(I wouldn't mind the current state of BG´s if it weren't for the fact that performance is so bad....)

Skysenzz

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Yeah well that will teach you. Heavily nerf our shields, we'll use pets as shields.

Well I mean shields are still strong AF, Stamina don't have that tool to avoid damages but Rolldodges, and sometimes (esp those time with server lags) you still get hit. Also those blocks EVERY source of damage but oblivion damages and bleed. For stamina you get hit by those and also spin2win *** ground AOEs, permafrost... Etc etc.

Aixy

Waffennacht wrote: »

1 MMr is account based, not character, so you can see any class at any mmr,
2 MMr is mostly representative of time playing

Conclusion: anyone with any class can eventually find themselves in the top mmr

Hey in my opinion, that is incorrect, MMR is character based !.-

LordTareq

Aixy wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

1 MMr is account based, not character, so you can see any class at any mmr,
2 MMr is mostly representative of time playing

Conclusion: anyone with any class can eventually find themselves in the top mmr

Hey in my opinion, that is incorrect, MMR is character based !.-

In my opinion, it seems completely random. One moment I'm playing in high MMR (yes, as a NB) with ballgroups and recognizable player names and really struggle to do well. Next match I kill everybody in 2 hits and end up 20+ kills 0 deaths.

HEBREWHAMMERRR

brandonv516 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

1 MMr is account based, not character, so you can see any class at any mmr,
2 MMr is mostly representative of time playing

Conclusion: anyone with any class can eventually find themselves in the top mmr

Did this change recently?

Because the last character I made and took into Battlegrounds took a few weeks to start seeing the names I see in high MMR.

Yeah idk about this. My warden gets some pretty potato matchups at fresh 50 compared to my sorc / magblade. My DK fresh 50 has been a mixed bag though so idk. Can’t figure it out myself. Always thought it was character based 🤷🏼‍♂️

BNOC

MMR is a massive farce.

I can get matched against the same sets of players (maybe population issue) on an alt or my main.

But, my alts queues are much shorter and 9/10 times I don't see good players at all.

The other aggro is, my main queues take 25m+ and 9/10 times I'm against good players which is great, but then they lump me with sub 160's that aren't even properly geared.

The other day I was matched against a strong 4 man that I'd normally enjoy fighting, with a CP29, Cp71 and a CP11* - These guys are 50, granted, but get them tf out of BG's until 160 or scale them up exactly, no less no more.

Why am I getting matched with resto heavy attackers and bow light attackers?



In response to OP:
Cloak and S2w are two abilities that I'm confident any new player could learn to use within a couple hours play time.
Especially s2w on the end of an equally easy learned burst, like a stamden's 2 button build followed by dawny and or s2w - Impressive skills we know, but it does keep the bad players engaged and that's good for queue health.

Soul assault is just an indicator of who you should target because I can guarantee they're weak players.

The rest is neither here nor there to me either. I just don't like the "MMR" system because I don't believe it exists and if it does, it's based on wins which means absolutely nothing in ESO.




To add my own, there's still an issue with the 3 team design and objective game modes, it's too easy to cap objectives and just ignore combat and run to the next. If these people are so against PVP I wish they'd kick them into Cyrodil and tell them to capture resources in the corners of the map instead or just have the games go up to infinite scoring and last the duration.

I queue 25m for a game where an opposing team will try end it in 48 seconds and it's dead; funnily enough, it's almost always absolute turnips doing it that I should never have been matched with in the first place.

Iskiab

Urvoth wrote: »

You aren’t high MMR if you’re still seeing NBs

That’s not true, but they are rare. I’m PC-NA and play at that bracket. It’s true NBs are super rare but I occasionally see some. Depends on your playtime.

When I do BGs it’s usually outside prime time.

I’m not sure how the system works either for MMR. I think the way it works is it matches the total MMR on a team by team basis.

Reason I think that is sometimes each team will have 1-2 regulars and the rest new players. It would also explain why people who try to premade have longer queue times, it takes longer to get enough people queued up with comparable MMR rankings.

BNOC

Iskiab wrote: »

I’m not sure how the system works either for MMR. I think the way it works is it matches the total MMR on a team by team basis.

I'm pretty certain it's not team based.. If it is then my MMR is 10 million as I get matched with Tyros and sub 160's non stop, against teams of 4 that I could fight 1v1 and have it go either way.

mursie

issues with this game:

1. mag sorcs
2. coordinated groups que'd into BG's vs pugs
3. healing efficiency
4. werewolves in sub 50 bg's
5. bashnecro
6. Crutch Points and the stalemate garbage pvp and baby seal clubbing experience they produce.
8. server performance
9. volendrung spawning and useable by the zerg faction on cyrodiil
10. faction locks which cripple the ability for underdog factions to recruit brave soldiers from overpopulated factions and thereby level the playing field
11. criminal extortion of dues owed to access basic functions of the game (i.e. craft bag behind a paywall and race change tokens at $25 a pop)
12. non deathmatch bg's promoting non-pvp. All game modes should still reward points for kills. you can cap a flag all day, but if your team is getting farmed while doing it, you can also still lose.

Joy_Division

If you want to announce to the world that you think Soul Assault is too overbearing, that's your prerogative, but that's going to affect how people will interpret your post

vamp_emily

Did Zeni add a new feature to BG? I'm constantly getting the message "Battlegrounds is not available at this time".

HEBREWHAMMERRR

vamp_emily wrote: »

Did Zeni add a new feature to BG? I'm constantly getting the message "Battlegrounds is not available at this time".

That’s the new “queue to queue” system they recently implement to help with the overloaded queue system not working during prime time.

Davadin

Skysenzz wrote: »

Sup, lemme give you my feelings about PvP as a BG player (Mid/High MMR) after few hundreds of games in battleground, on Stamina Dragonknight and Stamina Warden. I've tried a lot of different setups on those two classes, (maybe 20 in total?)
I will mostly talk about Deathmatch, since there's almost no competition in the other game mode.

Sorry, I stopped reading here.

either play a different MMO, or come visit Cyrodiil in small group. There's a non-CP campaigns too, yknow?

mursie wrote: »

issues with this game:

1. mag sorcs
2. coordinated groups que'd into BG's vs pugs
3. healing efficiency
4. werewolves in sub 50 bg's
5. bashnecro
6. Crutch Points and the stalemate garbage pvp and baby seal clubbing experience they produce.
8. server performance
9. volendrung spawning and useable by the zerg faction on cyrodiil
10. faction locks which cripple the ability for underdog factions to recruit brave soldiers from overpopulated factions and thereby level the playing field
11. criminal extortion of dues owed to access basic functions of the game (i.e. craft bag behind a paywall and race change tokens at $25 a pop)
12. non deathmatch bg's promoting non-pvp. All game modes should still reward points for kills. you can cap a flag all day, but if your team is getting farmed while doing it, you can also still lose.

wow, somebody's need L2p *AND* bitter... lol

Can't resist a few pointers though...
9. last night Volendong spawned on AD home, run around with AD zerg, sitting defensively on a wall and we (EP) knocked it off and stole it. Then we run around with our zerg, until DC zerg cuts off when we're stretched thin coz Volundong holder is squishy as hell. TLDR; Volendong isn't a zerg issue, it's a L2P issue.
10. all 3 factions are population-locked last night for a good few hours. EP was getting farmed by green team, until they decide to fight among themselves after stealing our scroll, so we head started to head south until AD got the Volendong and dissappoint uncle Sheo by dying too soon. Faction lock wouldn't help with population. The playing field was level. If anything, locks stop COWARD soldiers that's jumping from underdog factions into overpopulated ones just so they get more AP.
11. Criminal extortion... wow dude. Get a couple alt to act as mule if u need space that much, y'all got 3 race change tokens when they revised the races. What, that's not enough? I thought u don't have a storage mule.... Extortion. Just wow.
12. This is the one that blows my mind: NO. some game modes should NOT reward points for kills. Even WITHOUT giving points, some *** already running around ignoring objectives and ruining the round for their teammates who are in the non-DM mode wanting to win. Rewarding kills will make it worse.

If the name of the game is "cap the flag", u should win by "cap the flag", not by butchering the other team.

if the name of the game is "deathmatch", u should win by "killing the other team". Do you prefer ZOS adds some flags into Deathmatch mode so people who randomly joined can have a chance to win by capping flag if they don't want to kill?

honestly, i feel like u need to try another game to be happy, rather than promoting to overhaul the whole game because it's inconvenient for you... lol

ah well, ur not completely wrong though, i do agree with you from #1 to #8.

Davadin

ChefZero wrote: »

Deathmatch is the silliest game mode ever and should be never introduced to any MMORPG.

Hey, have you ever heard of the game Second Life? You might like that.