Goliath Bash is Silly

Illuvatarr

This ability is pretty much game breaking in pvp. The title says it all. It needs to be changed so it’s still very effective but not an I win button. Don’t think I have seen something this silly since DK vamp emps with bats.

Vapirko

Did you run into a good player? I have yet to see anyone effectively use the Goliath ult. Mostly I just see people who likely expected to be carried by necro transform in a sort of last ditch attempt and then panic when they realize it’s not saving them. Pretty funny to see this giant bone monster fleeing in terror across a field. In my experience so far the flesh atro has been far more devastating in Cyrodiil. Getting tagged with that major vulnerability is brutal. But it’s also fun watching ball groups get slammed on flags. If I wanted to spend the money on Elsweyr it would be solely for that purpose.

Still waiting to see what an experienced player or group of players accomplishes with the Goliath open world. I had a taste 1v1 on PTS and I’m not looking forward to it again.

Qbiken

Still waiting to see what an experienced player or group of players accomplishes with the Goliath open world. I had a taste 1v1 on PTS and I’m not looking forward to it again.

https://youtu.be/7XI3tWTJd28

First half of the video pretty much shows what and experienced group can do with the Goliath bash ultimate.

Wuuffyy

Nerf it all! Fun is not allowed. Everyone get your pillows!

Vapirko

Qbiken wrote: »

Still waiting to see what an experienced player or group of players accomplishes with the Goliath open world. I had a taste 1v1 on PTS and I’m not looking forward to it again.

https://youtu.be/7XI3tWTJd28

First half of the video pretty much shows what and experienced group can do with the Goliath bash ultimate.

That’s pretty insane. Although to be fair they had Volendrung for a bunch of the clips and those players probably woulda crumbled anyhow. But yeah that AoE bash. Given the fact that you have access to all your skills I’m not sure why the bash needs to be an AoE.

Ysbriel

Don't worry once everybody gets in comfortable with the necro it will face the nerfhammer like every other class one way or another... or will it?

SaintSubwayy

Vapirko wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Still waiting to see what an experienced player or group of players accomplishes with the Goliath open world. I had a taste 1v1 on PTS and I’m not looking forward to it again.

https://youtu.be/7XI3tWTJd28

First half of the video pretty much shows what and experienced group can do with the Goliath bash ultimate.

That’s pretty insane. Although to be fair they had Volendrung for a bunch of the clips and those players probably woulda crumbled anyhow. But yeah that AoE bash. Given the fact that you have access to all your skills I’m not sure why the bash needs to be an AoE.

I can imagine that ZOS will either rduce the AOE dmg to make it work like the jabs do...full dmg to the first in front, then reduced dmg to all others, or they remove the aoe dmg completly, making is ST only

Vapirko

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Still waiting to see what an experienced player or group of players accomplishes with the Goliath open world. I had a taste 1v1 on PTS and I’m not looking forward to it again.

https://youtu.be/7XI3tWTJd28

First half of the video pretty much shows what and experienced group can do with the Goliath bash ultimate.

That’s pretty insane. Although to be fair they had Volendrung for a bunch of the clips and those players probably woulda crumbled anyhow. But yeah that AoE bash. Given the fact that you have access to all your skills I’m not sure why the bash needs to be an AoE.

I can imagine that ZOS will either rduce the AOE dmg to make it work like the jabs do...full dmg to the first in front, then reduced dmg to all others, or they remove the aoe dmg completly, making is ST only

That would be more fair since it’s instant cast and not a channel so it would still be quite strong.

Sleep724

Qbiken wrote: »

Still waiting to see what an experienced player or group of players accomplishes with the Goliath open world. I had a taste 1v1 on PTS and I’m not looking forward to it again.

https://youtu.be/7XI3tWTJd28

First half of the video pretty much shows what and experienced group can do with the Goliath bash ultimate.

Thats horrifyingly amazing.

Zos is watering at the mouth for when they can nerf that.

Minno

best part is that skill is teaching you all a lesson in mitigation. And that you all don't have any lol.

Donny_Vito

Qbiken wrote: »

Still waiting to see what an experienced player or group of players accomplishes with the Goliath open world. I had a taste 1v1 on PTS and I’m not looking forward to it again.

https://youtu.be/7XI3tWTJd28

First half of the video pretty much shows what and experienced group can do with the Goliath bash ultimate.

That's disgusting.

Davadin

Vapirko wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Still waiting to see what an experienced player or group of players accomplishes with the Goliath open world. I had a taste 1v1 on PTS and I’m not looking forward to it again.

https://youtu.be/7XI3tWTJd28

First half of the video pretty much shows what and experienced group can do with the Goliath bash ultimate.

That’s pretty insane. Although to be fair they had Volendrung for a bunch of the clips and those players probably woulda crumbled anyhow. But yeah that AoE bash. Given the fact that you have access to all your skills I’m not sure why the bash needs to be an AoE.

that's amazing and all, but there's so many biased situational things going on there... they're in a ball zerg. teammate probably buffed him up both in defense and offense, not to mention debuffing them (and yes Volen debuff as well).

So it's without bash, those players gonna melt anyway. There's nothing new there.

I don't think it needs a nerf. I fought it twice 1v1 last night and my medium build was tanking it fine with less than 25k resist (unbuffed)

Adenoma

@Vapirko , I haven’t gotten mine out of under 50 Cyro yet because I’m on honeymoon. I’ve run 5x fury in sub-par traits and 5x alchemist back, 5x hunding’s front with bash glyphs on all jewelry. Everything is purple.

I literally just tank until I get ready to push. I can effectively permablock on this build between colossus ults. I’ve toyed with the idea of running no offensive skills besides shielded assault to gap close.

All this said, it feels stupid, but even with gap closer it’s not awful to deal with - I’ve had folks try and do it to me with vet builds and they aren’t awful to evade even with them spam gap closing. At that point, they’re just devoting all resources to closing that one kill.

I don’t think the idea of a bash GCD is a bad thing, but I think it makes things like spam interrupting in pve or pvp when you’re frantically trying to stop a mender from CCing or interrupt a dark deal just a little more difficult.

I’m not overly worried about watching organized play tear folks up with the ult because frankly, you can do that with a lot of ults and organized play. There are ones that have much more efficient damage output and larger AOE radius and that allow continuous ult gain.

Bergzorn

Left Bleakers MG, dropped dead about two seconds later with several 7k Goliath bashes on the recap. Didn't even notice the Goliath.

CambionDaemon

They better not touch it until I have a chance to use it (ps4), that looks insane.

Donny_Vito

CambionDaemon wrote: »

They better not touch it until I have a chance to use it (ps4), that looks insane.

Lol so you want to "cheese" for awhile??

Syhae

Many factors that changed this patch has facilitated the process of zerg-busting as shown in this video. Not just goliath bash.
Tools that were designed to benefit large clumps of players received nerfs, such as:
-Earthgore heal no longer stacking
-Restoration ult nerfs
A variety of tools were either implemented recently in this patch or updated to be more beneficial in wiping grouped up clumps of players.

New Implementations:
-Goliath Bash:Consistent damage that falls off in effectiveness the more dispersed a group becomes. Ult performs similarly to Corrosive in a sense that it is a defensive immunity period which allows for a great window of offensive burst. As the counter with corrosive is to simply kite, CC on CD and wait out duration of ultimate, the same applies.
-Flesh Atronach:Large ground based AoE spike that tremendously buffs allies attacks on those afflicted. Again, similar to Goliath Bash, ultimate loses effectiveness depending on how spread out a group is.
-Volendruug:Massive AoE damage, massive utility with a massive counter. Wielder cannot heal themselves. Isolate or burst, this item is only truly good when used in either a) coordinated group with dedicated healer(s) or b) a zerg.

Preexisting abilities/items that were updated:
-Dawnbreaker: Initial burst damage was buffed.
-Cleave: Damage was buffed by a hefty amount. Only really effective when paired with Master 2h, so again, common theme, skill falls off in effectiveness the more spread out a group is.
-Earthgore: Changed to remove all ground based AoE's in area of effect. This is huge for zerg-busting compared to what it was prior.

Short list, but these are the main contributors for what is now facilitating zerg-busting.

Now to get into why these changes are beneficial to the state of the game and not as imbalanced as people may say.

Common theme with a majority of these skills, the effectiveness tremendously drops off the more dispersed a group is. These skills all excel at primarily one thing, destroying a clump of players quickly. They are extremely effective at countering faction-stacks which are becoming increasingly prevalent over the last few patches due to a variety of changes over the years. Where as in previous patches, the real "I Win Button" referenced earlier in this thread was stacking as many players in one Outpost/Castle that is becoming less of a reality with coordinated groups actually having the tools to counter faction-stacks if they are both a) equipped properly in both gear and class comp to tackle these fights and b)playing at a competent level as both a team and individuals.

Seeing as these tools are open to any player, yet I only see a handful effectively using them I would not be quick to deem it overpowered.

Thanks for taking the time to read this regardless, hope you enjoyed the read and your day.
End post. Incoming "bias".

CambionDaemon

I pre-ordered it, so I should get the full 'cheese' experence

Donny_Vito wrote: »

CambionDaemon wrote: »

They better not touch it until I have a chance to use it (ps4), that looks insane.

Lol so you want to "cheese" for awhile??

I pre-order it, so I should get the full 'cheese' experience as well. And as the customer I am always right! lol

BlackMadara

Minno wrote: »

best part is that skill is teaching you all a lesson in mitigation. And that you all don't have any lol.

Running 5 heavy impreg and was still taking 2.5k from a goliath bash on my mDK, and took 5 in about 2s. Didn't die to only that, but the pressure was high.

The main problem is the fact that one can spam bash faster than any skill or light attack. I think they should just give the empowered bash a 1s CD. Leave everything else the same. That way, the player can still weave la-skill-bash, and be rewarded with a higher damage bash. This would cost more resources than spamming bash, need more skill, and take care of the insanely high possible dps.

One could still zerg bust with it too, just at a higher cost using 2h and cleave instead of SnB.

I'll say again, the only issue is the fact that bash can be spammed at a very high rate.

Iskiab

Oh oh, a sorc died so there’s another nerf thread...

In all seriousness, it is a bit overtuned. Best to just have the ultimate add a flat 1K to bash damage and make it AoE, the damage is pretty high now.

kokoandshinb14a_ESO

this a a flat out lie
I'm specced I to it
wearing 5 fury
and 5 affliction
all damage modifiers on jewelry
and warrior mundus

1h shield fully specced for deadly bash
my tool tip shows 8795 bash

yet I hit players for 1.7 to 2k

very underwhelming

i.suspect that if you are getting hit for 7k to 14k bashes that from players who know secrets and know how to mask hacks to increase damage.

sharquez

kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »

this a a flat out lie
I'm specced I to it
wearing 5 fury
and 5 affliction
all damage modifiers on jewelry
and warrior mundus

1h shield fully specced for deadly bash
my tool tip shows 8795 bash

yet I hit players for 1.7 to 2k

very underwhelming

i.suspect that if you are getting hit for 7k to 14k bashes that from players who know secrets and know how to mask hacks to increase damage.

or are using infused bashdamage jewlery...

Stibbons

Bash is just fine. You can counter it and it ultimate.

Davadin

kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »

very underwhelming

i.suspect that if you are getting hit for 7k to 14k bashes that from players who know secrets and know how to mask hacks to increase damage.

buff + debuff, penetration, those all adds up, especially when you're grouped with veteran players.

Adenoma wrote: »

I’m not overly worried about watching organized play tear folks up with the ult because frankly, you can do that with a lot of ults and organized play. There are ones that have much more efficient damage output and larger AOE radius and that allow continuous ult gain.

^this.

Donny_Vito wrote: »

CambionDaemon wrote: »

They better not touch it until I have a chance to use it (ps4), that looks insane.

Lol so you want to "cheese" for awhile??

the cheese half moldy to begin with, let 'im have it.

Savos_Saren

Watched some of the video. I couldn't pay attention because I started white-boy dancing to the music.

f047ys3v3n

kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »

this a a flat out lie
I'm specced I to it
wearing 5 fury
and 5 affliction
all damage modifiers on jewelry
and warrior mundus

1h shield fully specced for deadly bash
my tool tip shows 8795 bash

yet I hit players for 1.7 to 2k

very underwhelming

i.suspect that if you are getting hit for 7k to 14k bashes that from players who know secrets and know how to mask hacks to increase damage.

That may be so. Cheats are the omnipresent, game breaking, failure of this game. Good luck balancing anything when most of your best players can write their own ticket.

For what it is worth. Our tanky players have been getting hit in the high 6k range per thump and our healers in the 9k range by these bash builds. That is certainly pretty broken and the most OP ability I can remember in a while in that a single cast of it is often enough to kill a player and it is an AOE with an animation that often dosen't seem to show up (I understand there are ways to spam cast it with a bound bash key that prevents the animation from showing up.)

Rikumaru

Davadin wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Still waiting to see what an experienced player or group of players accomplishes with the Goliath open world. I had a taste 1v1 on PTS and I’m not looking forward to it again.

https://youtu.be/7XI3tWTJd28

First half of the video pretty much shows what and experienced group can do with the Goliath bash ultimate.

That’s pretty insane. Although to be fair they had Volendrung for a bunch of the clips and those players probably woulda crumbled anyhow. But yeah that AoE bash. Given the fact that you have access to all your skills I’m not sure why the bash needs to be an AoE.

that's amazing and all, but there's so many biased situational things going on there... they're in a ball zerg. teammate probably buffed him up both in defense and offense, not to mention debuffing them (and yes Volen debuff as well).

So it's without bash, those players gonna melt anyway. There's nothing new there.

I don't think it needs a nerf. I fought it twice 1v1 last night and my medium build was tanking it fine with less than 25k resist (unbuffed)

Dunno what people you were fighting but on PTS I was melting 30k resist players while on a tanky setup with a bash build. It's deffo OP.

LordTareq

It's definitely too good. See Necromancers in BG's going full tank, relying exclusively on this ultimate to do damage. I mean when any other class goed 100% tank in PvP they do like <200k damage total and get 2 or 3 kb's .

I encountered this necromancer in my last BG and his basic skills hit me for about 1200-1500 damage (me as a medium nightblade). It took 4 people minutes to take him down when not even in Goliath form. He relied 100% on this ultimate and finished the match with 9kb's, only just below the other high scorers who were in the 11-12kb range. He also had the highest damage done in the BG by a large margin and the least amount of deaths.

That said it's not a lot more OP than Permafrost, and that is still going without significant nerfs for a long time.

CynicK

This two necromancer ultimates are op the colosus and the goliath, the goliat because he can bash for 7k repitedly but i have to admit that i have seen bashes for 1500 or 2500 that is ok and not a problem the thing is most ultimates do 7k and is one attack not a repitable attack that you can do that damage many times during 20 seconds and you have all your habilties.
The other op ultimate that i do not see many people complaining about is the colosos it is an aoe that does a lot of damage but there are other aoes that do a lot of damage, the difference and that is why i say it is op is because instead of doing the damage in 20 seconds like the atronach or the standard of might it does an incredible amount of damege in 3 seconds, I have learned to dodge it but i always take at least one hit, the only good thing is if you dodge it is over soon.
I have bought the expansion but i think they should nerf both and most likely they are going to do it when they are done selling expansions.

Excaltic

Wait, the LIGHT attack is AOE?

Why is Werewolf LIGHT attack not AOE? Oh wait, that's not a DLC... :')

GG Zenimax!!

ArchMikem

Qbiken wrote: »

Still waiting to see what an experienced player or group of players accomplishes with the Goliath open world. I had a taste 1v1 on PTS and I’m not looking forward to it again.

https://youtu.be/7XI3tWTJd28

First half of the video pretty much shows what and experienced group can do with the Goliath bash ultimate.

That's pretty effed up when a single player can wipe a ball group.