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IC just for the zergs now

  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    Mr_Walker wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    I wish they would have capped the group size to 6 in there - there´s no large scale objectives that would require anything more.

    I´d rather not see IC becoming a GvG version of Aliki´r......

    IC needs population, ZOS just fails time and time again to make people go there....

    That's because any ganker can, with minimal risk, steal half your TV stones.

    Risk Vs Reward should apply to the gankers, with a multiplier of what they can take based on what they are carrying. TV multiplier / 100 would be appropriate.

    First people complained about IC being dead due to how hard it was to get there. Now when it's easier to go there, people still doesn't show up (aside from the two zergs I saw yesterday that didn't attack each other because they would rather roleplay Alikir dueling than actually fighting)

    And the current telvar system is fine as it is. If you still run around in IC after all these years it's been out without taking gankers into consideration, then you deserve to lose your telvar tbh....
    Retired werewolf player, currently getting carried by whatever the FOTM is

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  • Mr_Walker
    Mr_Walker
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    Mr_Walker wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    I wish they would have capped the group size to 6 in there - there´s no large scale objectives that would require anything more.

    I´d rather not see IC becoming a GvG version of Aliki´r......

    IC needs population, ZOS just fails time and time again to make people go there....

    That's because any ganker can, with minimal risk, steal half your TV stones.

    Risk Vs Reward should apply to the gankers, with a multiplier of what they can take based on what they are carrying. TV multiplier / 100 would be appropriate.

    First people complained about IC being dead due to how hard it was to get there. Now when it's easier to go there, people still doesn't show up (aside from the two zergs I saw yesterday that didn't attack each other because they would rather roleplay Alikir dueling than actually fighting)

    And the current telvar system is fine as it is. If you still run around in IC after all these years it's been out without taking gankers into consideration, then you deserve to lose your telvar tbh....

    It's about risk versus reward. You kind of missed that part? PvPers love to trot it out every time IC is mentioned. See, under a sliding scale system good pvpers will be entitled to more rewards from killing players, but have to take risk on to do so. Gutless wonders will not be rewarded as richly, and nor should they be.
  • fred4
    fred4
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    To work on risk / reward, it's pet sorcs who'd have to be adjusted, not NB gankers. I'm kidding. I don't really want anything changed, but that's the first thing that comes to mind. Stamblades were already nerfed this patch. Magblades, even with something like Caluu + Zaan, already put themselves at a lot of risk to make that work.

    If you easily fall prey to a ganker, you're basically a light or medium armor build with lowish health and lowish defenses. Some specs have that issue, but it's as much your fault as anyone's. I can count the players on one hand who dodge roll AND heal / Vigor immediately, when ganked. The others either don't react, or they panic with a series of dodge rolls only. That's the vulnerable group of people. Try ganking a blocking DK or a shielding magsorc. Good luck with that. You might still win, but it will be in the subsequent duel, not from the outright gank.
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • Hashtag_
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    I wish I knew when these zergs were running. Everytime I look at IC pop it’s 1 bar across.

    Tbh the DLC for IC is still 5k crowns. Imo IC needs to become part of the base game or become significantly cheaper DLC. I think the former option is the best option and would drive up population.
    Edited by Hashtag_ on June 4, 2019 1:18PM
  • Luckylancer
    Luckylancer
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    zyk wrote: »
    Adernath wrote: »
    The main motivation for me to go into IC is to farm TV stones. Although the loss of these stones produces a certain thrill, it does not encourage much PvP. In order to make IC a more attractive PvP place the loss of the TV stones upon death should be reduced OR the gain could be reduced significantly but no loss upon death.

    Actually, it's the opposite. To encourage PVP, increase the amount lost to other players so other players go after each other.

    A great thing about IC is it is the only source for some items. Therefore if those things become less abundant in the marketplace, their value rises and the incentive to fight for Telvar increases. This ensures IC will always be attractive to profit seekers who can handle themselves in battle.

    ZOS should let IC be the hardcore zone it was designed to be.

    Extremely wrong! There is a pyramid in IC.
    Zerg - dragon?
    PvPers - eagle
    Gankers - wolf
    Farmers - cow
    Mobs - grass

    IC's problem is there is not enough telvar there. Why? Because there is not enough farmers there. Why? Because gankers get all the spoils without any risk. PvE players dont want to be a cow for ganker that will kill them, they leave. No cows => gankers leave. No people? PvPers leave.

    If a guy thay carry 0 telvar can kill me when I dropped the health of boss to %5 and take half of my spoils + boss' loot, I wont go to IC. What will I get if i kill ganker? 2k AP + 0 telvar. Thats ***.
  • fred4
    fred4
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    IC's problem is there is not enough telvar there. Why? Because there is not enough farmers there. Why? Because gankers get all the spoils without any risk. PvE players dont want to be a cow for ganker that will kill them, they leave. No cows => gankers leave. No people? PvPers leave.
    This is total nonsense. I'm a ganker, but perfectly capable of soloing bosses myself. As soon as all the flags are turned, many PvPers go on to farm and most are perfectly capable of fending off gankers.

    The reason Hakeijo prices are rising (on PC EU) is that there are a lot more people in IC right now and the flags never settle on one colour for long. That means less overall Tel Var gain, but you can be sure that boss Tel Var are constantly taken out of IC one way or the other.
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • Adernath
    Adernath
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    @fred4

    Just read what Mr_Walker said. To steal half of someones TV stones just because one got the better end of a situation is just encouraging a ganker playstile, focusing primarily on harassment of new players (never saw any decent PvPer getting ganked without high risk of the ganker getting killed instead), and leading in my opinion to a low pop in IC, simply because it is unattractive for the causal gamer. The risk should be fully on the ganker side. If he does not carry any TV then he also should gain no TV. If you are really that good in farming other players as you claim than you would certainly not have any problems with this suggestion. ;)

    Also please stop pretending that you are the only one with sufficient XP in PvP to make statements here. I play PvP since day 1 on ESO in beta (and before that I played many years WOTLK with over 70.000 honorable kills on my frostmage & also long time PvP with Hunter and Mage in Neverwinter Online). For me PvP is the most enjoyable part end-game, even though I have often too low performance in comparison to other players on their high-end rigs.
  • Sandman929
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    For me, and what I think I see many saying, IC isn't fun. I always think I'll have fun when I decide to go again, but then it's not fun. I still hold out hope that someday they'll make it fun. If I go there I'll either find almost no one, or one NB who will vanish if he starts losing and then reappear if the adds/bosses create a window for them to win, or a NB who wins outright and seems to be the only person I come across where ever I go, or a group of 8-10 who run me down relentlessly.
    All that in a dismal, claustrophobic setting with minimal, easily lost, reward.
    It's not fun. I've gotten just about everything I need from Tel Var, why go back?
    Daggerfall Covenant - Xbox One NA
  • josh.lackey_ESO
    josh.lackey_ESO
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    fred4 wrote: »
    To work on risk / reward, it's pet sorcs who'd have to be adjusted, not NB gankers. I'm kidding. I don't really want anything changed, but that's the first thing that comes to mind. Stamblades were already nerfed this patch. Magblades, even with something like Caluu + Zaan, already put themselves at a lot of risk to make that work.

    If you easily fall prey to a ganker, you're basically a light or medium armor build with lowish health and lowish defenses. Some specs have that issue, but it's as much your fault as anyone's. I can count the players on one hand who dodge roll AND heal / Vigor immediately, when ganked. The others either don't react, or they panic with a series of dodge rolls only. That's the vulnerable group of people. Try ganking a blocking DK or a shielding magsorc. Good luck with that. You might still win, but it will be in the subsequent duel, not from the outright gank.

    You are wedging sorc hate into a thread that has nothing to do with sorcs. IC has always been a gankers paradise, and sorcs are crappy gankers. The spammable invis of the nb makes them the best class for IC. Because if you cloak the mobs will aggro your victim, helping you kill them. I think by far nightblade has the hugest advantage in IC. Steak is less useful in narrow streets and winding sewer passages. Cloak on the other hand, becomes even more op.

    My take has always been you should be able to loot more TV than you are carrying. So there is also a risk vs. reward and not just going around ganking people with zero risk (regardless of whether you are a pet sorc or a nb or whatever.)
  • Metafae
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    It doesn't make sense for someone to come up with Zero Telvar, and then gank someone and immediately leave and bank their sudden spoils of 7k telvar.

    There should be a system in place that says if you're carrying nothing, you get nothing, if you have 100TV, you can steal at max twice that amount from another player.

    You need to encourage the gankers to carry the TV stones too.
  • susmitds
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    Mr_Walker wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    I wish they would have capped the group size to 6 in there - there´s no large scale objectives that would require anything more.

    I´d rather not see IC becoming a GvG version of Aliki´r......

    IC needs population, ZOS just fails time and time again to make people go there....

    That's because any ganker can, with minimal risk, steal half your TV stones.

    Risk Vs Reward should apply to the gankers, with a multiplier of what they can take based on what they are carrying. TV multiplier / 100 would be appropriate.

    As a nightblade, who plays all NB playstyles, including ganker, I welcome the zergs. It gives them a fake sense of security. The bad gankers will have it harder but more prey for the good ones.

    Also my bombblade is having a lot of fun.
  • Hashtag_
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    Metafae wrote: »
    It doesn't make sense for someone to come up with Zero Telvar, and then gank someone and immediately leave and bank their sudden spoils of 7k telvar.

    There should be a system in place that says if you're carrying nothing, you get nothing, if you have 100TV, you can steal at max twice that amount from another player.

    You need to encourage the gankers to carry the TV stones too.

    Please no more unwarranted calculations. This game has so much to calculate and crap coding that it ruins the game
  • AhPook_Is_Here
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    zyk wrote: »
    Adernath wrote: »
    The main motivation for me to go into IC is to farm TV stones. Although the loss of these stones produces a certain thrill, it does not encourage much PvP. In order to make IC a more attractive PvP place the loss of the TV stones upon death should be reduced OR the gain could be reduced significantly but no loss upon death.

    Actually, it's the opposite. To encourage PVP, increase the amount lost to other players so other players go after each other.

    A great thing about IC is it is the only source for some items. Therefore if those things become less abundant in the marketplace, their value rises and the incentive to fight for Telvar increases. This ensures IC will always be attractive to profit seekers who can handle themselves in battle.

    ZOS should let IC be the hardcore zone it was designed to be.

    Extremely wrong! There is a pyramid in IC.
    Zerg - dragon?
    PvPers - eagle
    Gankers - wolf
    Farmers - cow
    Mobs - grass

    IC's problem is there is not enough telvar there. Why? Because there is not enough farmers there. Why? Because gankers get all the spoils without any risk. PvE players dont want to be a cow for ganker that will kill them, they leave. No cows => gankers leave. No people? PvPers leave.

    If a guy thay carry 0 telvar can kill me when I dropped the health of boss to %5 and take half of my spoils + boss' loot, I wont go to IC. What will I get if i kill ganker? 2k AP + 0 telvar. Thats ***.

    Wolves are pack hunters should be more like

    zerg - wolves
    PvPers - dragons
    Gankers - Leopards/Jaguars (depending on your continent)
    Farmers - Tapirs
    Mobs - Mushrooms
    “Whatever.”
    -Unknown American
  • Orpheaus
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    If you get "Ganked" in the current meta it's because you're incompetent. This isn't the Viper/veli patch of proc heaven. It is EASY to run a build that is competent at killing mobs and doesn't insta die to a ganker. But all the farmers would rather run 16k HP so they can kill mobs slightly faster and then run to the forums to cry when they die to a ganker. The tears in this thread are an l2p issue. End of story.
  • mayasunrising
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    It was never meant to be a farming ground. It was meant to be a different PvP area...
    Awesome to hear that it's active now!

    I totally agree. I've always love IC as a 50/50 pvp/pveer, but it just didn't seem right that there were never any real fights going on except during mid-year mayhem. I haven't had a chance to get back in there because I'm working my way through Elsweyr, but I think I'll make it my next stop.

    I look forward to GLORIOUS battle!
    "And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." Anaïs Nin

    “There’s a difference between wanting to be looked at and wanting to be seen." Amanda Palmer

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  • Emma_Overload
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    Orpheaus wrote: »
    If you get "Ganked" in the current meta it's because you're incompetent. This isn't the Viper/veli patch of proc heaven. It is EASY to run a build that is competent at killing mobs and doesn't insta die to a ganker. But all the farmers would rather run 16k HP so they can kill mobs slightly faster and then run to the forums to cry when they die to a ganker. The tears in this thread are an l2p issue. End of story.

    Nah, this is BS. You can have 35k health with 3k crit resist and still die to a top tier gankblade. The only way to counter these guys is to make your build so tanky that you can barely kill anything yourself. Switching out a damage set for Impregnable or Reactive would totally gimp my build. Switching from light to heavy armor would be even worse.

    Cloak is ridiculously overpowered in the Imperial City, and y'all know it. The hoops you have jump through to counter gankblades are equally ridiculous. Of course any time someone complains, these guys flock to the forums with their copy-pasted list of l2p "counters", all of which are either ineffective or cripple your build or both. High damage, low risk gankblades are one of the major drivers for the boring tank meta we are currently suffering. Maybe it's time ZOS took a long hard look at Cloak... and made some adjustments.
    #CAREBEARMASTERRACE
  • dsalter
    dsalter
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    zyk wrote: »
    Adernath wrote: »
    The main motivation for me to go into IC is to farm TV stones. Although the loss of these stones produces a certain thrill, it does not encourage much PvP. In order to make IC a more attractive PvP place the loss of the TV stones upon death should be reduced OR the gain could be reduced significantly but no loss upon death.

    Actually, it's the opposite. To encourage PVP, increase the amount lost to other players so other players go after each other.
    .
    actually this would encourage gankers and nothing else.
    go in, store stones if you are holding any, head out, find a peon, let him farm for you, wait till you feel like he's holding enough, proceed to oneshot animation cancel "skill" gank said person when he starts pulling, congratulation the guy scores all your work for little to no effort and he can safely stealth away back home or wait for a second go while said peon walks away with nothing just like slave labor.

    this is an awful idea.


    best option would be that killing players gives you a very small multiplier to stones earned that stackbut cannot gain a stack from the same character until you are killed which apon being killed removes all your multiplier stacks and the winner of the fight gains half of your stack of multiplier.

    you now have a reason to take down randoms, you risk a multiplier that would make your farm easier while also gambling if you can stack it up further making your farm faster while at the same time losing would result in all stack losses and a slower farm while the victor is rewarded with half of your buff stack rewarding them for winning.

    gankers would only get a reward of buff stacking and cant leech off other peoples farm without committing to some themselves, PvP rewards you without negatively feeding off oth other peoples misery and time while at the same time slowing their farm but not STEALING it and increasing your farm speed.

    gankers get the shortest end of this stick but you know what? good, because its a zero risk playstyle that is more rewarding than any other, even zerg balls play more risk than gankers who can choose their victims at their fancy and a det bomb GANKER can single handedly take all the hard work of a zerg ball with little to no risk, then run away at their leisure in stealth with no risk at all.
    PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread

    EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
    Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.

  • heng14rwb17_ESO
    heng14rwb17_ESO
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    GO SORC OR GO CRY !
  • ellahellabella
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    I like the idea of you can't gain more than you have when you kill a player.
    Risk and reward.
    Try to read everything I write with an Australian accent

    PC NA
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    Full faction locks are only further dividing an already dwindling pvp community

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  • bosmern_ESO
    bosmern_ESO
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    Get better and it'll still be a tel'var farm
    ~Thallen~
  • fred4
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    I appreciate being ganked can feel extremely unfair. My first class was a medium armor DW / 2H stam DK, who was equally vulnerable to stamblades and things like Soul Assault. One of my problems was that I mainly sprinted and flapped wings as a defense. I wasn't (and still am not) all that observant when it comes to rolling at the right time.

    These days my position is that, if you play DK, but don't play 1H+S on one of your bars, you severely gimp yourself and it's no wonder you have issues with NBs. There are also so many good sets, now, that allow you to be tanky in medium or light armor, from Brass to Pirate Skeleton to Protective jewelry to using, say, Cyrodiil's Crest or Armor Master on the off bar only.

    Unfortunately, until you play a variety of the game's classes, mag and stam, medium, light and heavy armor, you have no idea of each class's strengths and weaknesses. Specifically, if you play a non-tanky medium or light armor build, you better be good at rolling, LoSing or keeping up you shield discipline. This applies in IC and everywhere else.

    Many people here, who are salty about nightblades and would prefer a more caring, fair IC just really don't know how to play their class. Sorry. You do not need to become a complete tank to defend against nightblades. Nor can you categorically say that cloak beats streak in IC. Narrow passages neither offer an escape for nightblades, nor for sorcs. In fact, as a magblade, I have to be extremely circumspect to not leave it obvious where I am, lest I be streaked as a result. Sorcs can do tricks that even nightblades aren't capable of, such as streaking from a building onto one of the protected blue door platforms. Get to know your terrain. Jump through a ceiling or simply streak and use an Invis potion, if you have to. Just another common sorc trick.

    I can't say how it is for stamblades, but as a magblade I actually prefer open terrain. Other classes need to LoS. For a magblade, the more confined a space, the more obvious it becomes where I must be hiding and I become vulnerable to AOEs and negates. Shedding aggro is also a very double-edged sword. The more surrounded you are by NPCs, the harder it becomes for me to target you. Bear in mind, I can't brawl well. My objective is to dip in and out of the fight. Mobs are as annoying as a sorc's pets. Worse, if you are magplar, you heal a ton from attacking mobs with Sweeps. I am just as likely to wait that out.

    When it comes to boss fights, nightblades actually do not shed aggro in a non-solo fight. They don't have it during an initial gank, but thereafter the ground AOEs from the bosses target nightblades, even while they are in cloak. The poison pools from the arena flesh atro boss are particularly nasty, but all of them are problematic. If a nightblade works around that, they're a good player. They're not merely winning because they are a nightblade.
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • fred4
    fred4
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    dsalter wrote: »
    its a zero risk playstyle that is more rewarding than any other, even zerg balls play more risk than gankers who can choose their victims at their fancy and a det bomb GANKER can single handedly take all the hard work of a zerg ball with little to no risk, then run away at their leisure in stealth with no risk at all.
    I find bombing opportunities rare af, except perhaps during the double Tel Var event. Nightblades who bomb are built specifically for that, quite different from a single-target ganker. It's not at all easy to get the timing right and your chances of getting away clean are not particularly good. I've witnessed many failed bomb attempts in IC, because the flag guards and a few players loosely spread out on the flag don't cut it. You really need a bunch of noobs stacking up tightly. The heyday of bombing is long over, as Proxy Det and Vicious Death have long been nerfed.

    If you fall victim to a bomber, you are inexperienced. You stood on a flag doing nothing. You didn't block, you didn't meditate, you didn't shield, you didn't move, you didn't throw Caltrops etc., you didn't listen for the sound of Cloak that immediately preceded the bomb and you were a squishy low health build to top it all off. Learn from that and it won't happen to you again.

    Does successful bombing happen? Sure. When you listen to the delight of the YouTubers who post such videos, bear in mind they are so delighted because they (a) found an opportunity and (b) they happened to pull it off that time.

    Another thing that bugs me about the posts here: I don't bring Tel Var home, unless I hit a really big score. That is rare. Tel Var mostly comes in dribs and drabs of 1K to 2K. Going all the way to the base is time-consuming and boring. It's so not worth it.

    On the other hand, every class can head through the nearest door, where you are protected, then use a retreat sigil. Is a nightblade more likely to bank successfully, when they want to so? Sure. The advantage isn't as great as people make it out to be, though. Just pop an Invis pot, head to a door and use a sigil.
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • JumpmanLane
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    Kadoin wrote: »
    Don't forget the tanky DKs and NBs that wait until you fight mobs or a boss to attack you...


    That’s what I do on my MagDk. Thanks for the telvar!

    [Edit to remove censor bypassing]
    Edited by ZOS_AntonioP on June 15, 2019 6:19PM
    Witch up, lil' witches!
  • Luckylancer
    Luckylancer
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    0 telvar carrier nightblade ganker/bomers talk too much. Carry 10-15k telvar while ganking and then start giving opinions.

    You talk about "but what we do is hard". Please tell me what do you lose when you fail? I will tell what I lose: I lose 5k-10k telvar when I die to ganker and I gain 2k ap + 27 telvar when I menage to kill a ganker. Thats fair isnt it?
  • Minno
    Minno
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    IC needs to become base game, and they need to make it you can rez at any district no matter the flag ownership.

    Faster fights with better access will mean people won't be so butt hurt about being zerged down by 20incaps/DBoS. And less discouraged people will mean more fights
    Edited by Minno on June 16, 2019 2:53PM
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • TBois
    TBois
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    I've had a bunch of fun in IC recently. Little lag, varying group sizes, varying level of opponents, and throw the pve bosses in the mix but these quality of life changes would do it good.
    Minno wrote: »
    IC needs to become base game, and they need to make it you can rez at any district no matter the flag ownership.

    Faster fights with better access will mean people won't be so butt hurt about being zerged down by 20incaps/DBoS. And less discouraged people will mean more fights

    Just as BGs went to the base game, IC needs to.
    Current Guilds: Fantasia
    Friends of: Omni, Avant Garde
    Former Guilds: Decibel, Hagnado

    PC/NA
    T-Bois (AR 50 Stam Sorc) - AD

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDUkIEilHdG3v6I586WzoyA?
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